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Is it NVFL if you have the surprise element?

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Guest   
Guest

Hi, i'm just curious. Say you were in a house with 4 guys, the 4 guys don't know you're in the house and all have their backs facing you, they are performing a hostile act on your friend, you are pretty sure you can take all 4 but don't want to as you risk getting reported for NVFL, does the element of surprise overrule NVFL or is it still NVFL.

Thanks.

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Guest TheShrimpPimp   
Guest TheShrimpPimp

I'd say in this situation the fact you had the element of surprise and the fact you probably felt obliged to help your friend I'd say you would be ok to act on it . Especially if you had a good weapon to take them down .

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Davos    5

If it is role playing, and they are threatening the life of your friend, it would make sense for you to protect them. I would have suggested asking them to drop their guns, and telling them you have the drop on them, and perhaps changing the situation around and gaining the upper hand in a roleplaying sense. RP being the reason we are all here.

I would say it depends on what weapon you have, what weapons they have, and if they are threatening to kill your friend or just trying to acquire something specific like food or ammo. It would be a waste to destroy an opportunity to roleplay just so you can unload your gun on them.

I imagine you need to initiate on them either way before you are allowed to fire.

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Guest TheShrimpPimp   
Guest TheShrimpPimp

If it is role playing, and they are threatening the life of your friend, it would make sense for you to protect them. I would have suggested asking them to drop their guns, and telling them you have the drop on them, and perhaps changing the situation around and gaining the upper hand in a roleplaying sense. RP being the reason we are all here.

I would say it depends on what weapon you have, what weapons they have, and if they are threatening to kill your friend or just trying to acquire something specific like food or ammo. It would be a waste to destroy an opportunity to roleplay just so you can unload your gun on them.

I imagine you need to initiate on them either way before you are allowed to fire.

I think with 4 guys being told someone's got the drop on them Atleast 2 would be able to get out of view of the house easily , I say it's a tough call . Maybe patience would be key to catch them off guard with as little of them with weapons out.

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Guest Doug Quade   
Guest Doug Quade

If that person was initiated on, and a hostile action was performed, then I believe you get KOS rights. If you re-initiate and alert the group via YOUR initiation, then you have lost the element of surprise, and then it can become NVFL, since all 4 are now alerted to your presence and you chance of survival has gone much,. much closer to 0.

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Guest   
Guest

I'd say in this situation the fact you had the element of surprise and the fact you probably felt obliged to help your friend I'd say you would be ok to act on it . Especially if you had a good weapon to take them down .

Yeah, that's what I've always thought but I wasn't sure if it conformed to the rules. Cheers for the response!

I would have suggested asking them to drop their guns

I imagine you need to initiate on them either way before you are allowed to fire.

The thing is, if I did draw my gun and tell them to drop theirs all they have to do is raise their weapons and then I no longer have the advantage, even if they were great RPers I'd imagine that they would still refuse to drop their weapons since everybody is human after all and doesn't want to lose their gear. Thanks for the response!

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PwnCaiks101    0

The thing is, if I did draw my gun and tell them to drop theirs all they have to do is raise their weapons and then I no longer have the advantage, even if they were great RPers I'd imagine that they would still refuse to drop their weapons since everybody is human after all and doesn't want to lose their gear. Thanks for the response!

Well you cant shoot them unless you already have the rights. But hey, you'll scare them so maybe their reactions would be different them normal. On another note, NVFL is completely situational. (Who your fighting, what guns you have, cover, etc)

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Tomeran    3

Frankly when it comes to numbers alone I think the judgement on "NVFL" should be fairly liberal, its usually -very- circumstancial. Unless we're truly talking numbers above half a dozen here.

Initiative matters a lot, especielly in this game. If you're in a position where you dont have to initiate, then it might even be easy to kill 4 guys in a confined space, or at the very least even out the odds enough to make any proper firefight winnable. Depends a little on what kind of weapon you have I guess, but it shouldnt be that hard. And there might also be a risk of them shooting your friend unless you get them all, so that's a risk worth considering.

But if you have to initiate, then it becomes a whole other ballgame. You loose your initiative and then it might approach a lot closer to probable suicide, thus NVFL violation.

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Davos    5

Also on another note, would your character risk his body being shot in the face with four armed characters aiming at him? Would he have courage to kill four people in cold blood over a can of beans and a backpack?

Stuff can be replaced, but friends are hard to come by in this world with so few left.

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Guest   
Guest

Also on another note, would your character risk his body being shot in the face with four armed characters aiming at him? Would he have courage to kill four people in cold blood over a can of beans and a backpack?

Stuff can be replaced, but friends are hard to come by in this world with so few left.

It's difficult to say, really depends on the situation.

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Cjbustuup    1

got an akm and a drum mag? id say drop them if no then i dont reckon you would have a chance.

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Guest   
Guest

got an akm and a drum mag? id say drop them if no then i dont reckon you would have a chance.

Yeah but, a drum mag would promote spraying, I'd rather have a robbed alive friend than one with 20 7.62*39's buried in his skull. However its easy myself saying this now that I will be clinical and aim heads on each, but I suppose realistically I'll be shaking so much from adrenaline i'll shoot anywhere and everywhere and most likely end up dead.

On a completely different note, maybe this should be moved to discussions?

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Cjbustuup    1

got an akm and a drum mag? id say drop them if no then i dont reckon you would have a chance.

Yeah but, a drum mag would promote spraying, I'd rather have a robbed alive friend than one with 20 7.62*39's buried in his skull. However its easy myself saying this now that I will be clinical and aim heads on each, but I suppose realistically I'll be shaking so much from adrenaline i'll shoot anywhere and everywhere and most likely end up dead.

On a completely different note, maybe this should be moved to discussions?

Well it all depends on accuracy and your position on them. Im pretty sure i could get them all and not kill my friend but better safe then sorry i suppose :)

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Davos    5

If you had that, and your friend dropped to the ground on your command, I would say waste them, but only if it is being streamed or recorded, just so I can watch four bandits hosed down to see you and your buddy double high five each other over their corpses. Though their gear would all get ruined sadly.

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You have received some very good answers. I would like to caveat on some of them. Numbers should never be a factor of NVFL. Situation will always dictate. In your scenario some factors need to be in place; do you have the tactical advantage, and is your success even possible. If you had a double barrel shotgun and there are four of them, then this would definitely be NVFL. As I stated, situation will always dictate. As long as you can articulate and justify your decision, you will be good. Did the answer successfully answer your question?

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Bryce_    1

My opinion - It's not NVFL if you can do it without dying, unlike what others have said to me in the past. Here's how I think of it, if you take on 4 guys by yourself you're probably a pretty risky guy IRL, so your character probably is. As long as you don't show no care for your character and do suicide missions, you're probably okay. It's just a matter of you judging how good of a chance you have to survive.

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Guest   
Guest

Yeah this thread can be solved, thanks for all who replied!

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Franklin    8

Yeah this thread can be solved, thanks for all who replied!

Marking as solved by OP's request.

/solved

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