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Maldhyr

Some feedback for the whitelist reviewers/admins

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Maldhyr    0

Tho I appreciate the effort you admins do with regards to whitelisting in order to get the right people, I strongly believe you look too much at technical details like 'explaining rules'. I sincerely would love to play and add something nice to the RP lore and hope the upcoming rephrasing will be satisfying.

I do understand the rules fully and can easily adhere to them, but if applying becomes a 'tedious job' of just technical rewriting the rules in detail and in such a way that it looks like I am explaining it to my 8 yr old daughter (and just rewrite every sentence in a different way) I think your focus is a wee bit off line. Paraphrasing and/or summing up the essence of a rule is different to rewriting them and when I look at the many 'reports' of rules violations on the forum one can ask if this is the quality check you are looking for.

I also realise that every form of testing is hard but this one does not 'test' what is has to test and even leads to more applications and thus time. This 'test' merely tests a persons willing or ability to rewrite given rules and is merely a schoolish approach of testing knowledge rather than testing competences in applying them or motivation to do so...Do you think this will weed out the (real) roleplayers ? I do not want to criticize you but merely want to feedback on it. I hope you can read this post in that way.

A suggestion (just a thought to raise discussion):

Write a motivation (+2000 words) WHY you want to play on this server and WHAT you could add to both the lore and it's players. SHOW that you understand the rules and TALE of your character. People who have RP experience are invited to showcase it but new (RP) players are welcomed with the extra assignment to elaborate on the subject of Roleplaying in general (and this server in particular).

When approved, a 5-10 minutes talk with two reviewing staff members/admins will follow (TS/chat program for those who have no comms). The staff members can test flaws during the conversation and decide together whether to allow or (temp.) halt the applicant.

Again; I realise that this feedback might not be welcomed but willing to 'add' to a community does not only apply to in game when it comes to me.

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Mikachu    26

Any and all feedback is always welcomed if it is presented without any flame or such (which yours is of course)

Don't be afraid to post ideas or suggestions ever, sometimes fresh eyes can point out things those of us who have been here a while are used to

Anyway in regards to the actual post, the issue is that manually talking to every applicant in TS simply isn't feasible. Since opening whitelist yesterday we have had over 300 apps already, we cannot devote enough resources to every single applicant.

I do however think the whitelist itself needs to be looked into but it's a complicated issue. It can't be too long or too short and must show that a player is right for our server. It's tough to find a perfect whitelist for that.

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DatGuySyl    0

Tho I appreciate the effort you admins do with regards to whitelisting in order to get the right people, I strongly believe you look too much at technical details like 'explaining rules'. I sincerely would love to play and add something nice to the RP lore and hope the upcoming rephrasing will be satisfying.

I do understand the rules fully and can easily adhere to them, but if applying becomes a 'tedious job' of just technical rewriting the rules in detail and in such a way that it looks like I am explaining it to my 8 yr old daughter (and just rewrite every sentence in a different way) I think your focus is a wee bit off line. Paraphrasing and/or summing up the essence of a rule is different to rewriting them and when I look at the many 'reports' of rules violations on the forum one can ask if this is the quality check you are looking for.

I also realise that every form of testing is hard but this one does not 'test' what is has to test and even leads to more applications and thus time. This 'test' merely tests a persons willing or ability to rewrite given rules and is merely a schoolish approach of testing knowledge rather than testing competences in applying them or motivation to do so...Do you think this will weed out the (real) roleplayers ? I do not want to criticize you but merely want to feedback on it. I hope you can read this post in that way.

A suggestion (just a thought to raise discussion):

Write a motivation (+2000 words) WHY you want to play on this server and WHAT you could add to both the lore and it's players. SHOW that you understand the rules and TALE of your character. People who have RP experience are invited to showcase it but new (RP) players are welcomed with the extra assignment to elaborate on the subject of Roleplaying in general (and this server in particular).

When approved, a 5-10 minutes talk with two reviewing staff members/admins will follow (TS/chat program for those who have no comms). The staff members can test flaws during the conversation and decide together whether to allow or (temp.) halt the applicant.

Again; I realise that this feedback might not be welcomed but willing to 'add' to a community does not only apply to in game when it comes to me.

I agree but recently I came across alot of people ingame that don't really know the rules too well so I think that the admins are currently doing a geat job picking out the right people.

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Matt    24

When approved, a 5-10 minutes talk with two reviewing staff members/admins will follow (TS/chat program for those who have no comms). The staff members can test flaws during the conversation and decide together whether to allow or (temp.) halt the applicant.

This honestly would not work we often have up to 300+ apps a day and would take way to long for the admins to do each individual, a 5-10 minute talk.

And I honestly feel the whitelist should stay the way it is, it keeps away those who are unwilling to take there time with the whitelist, which you should as it shows you are going to be dedicated to this community.

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Sin    127

I like your idea of posting a motivational statement. Fact is though, whitelist process isn't going to get any easier. A lot of people think it's too easy as it is, as evidenced by the number of trolls who make it through, and the number of people who take the time to pretend to understand and agree with the rules only to go ahead and break them once they're approved.

One thing I will say though, the trolls we have here on DayZRP are some of the finest quality, most dedicated trolls you will find anywhere on the Internet.

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Riorach    0

I think rather than change how the whitelist functions fundamentally, there should be an increase in constructive direction when you are rejected. It's already fairly alright by describing what point you were rejected for, but I'm not sure if it's an automated tick list or an actual person writing out what you missed. If it is a list, perhaps have a tick for when you do not explain something and a tick for when you improperly explain something, rather than one that says either or.

I also think that the attempts to apply should be increased, because sometimes even people who fully grasp the rules and write well over the asked limit, and do it well, miss word one thing. I understand it does increase whitelist load, but even allowing people 3 attempts per month would lessen the fear people have of not being accepted. I myself am sitting on 2 rejects for bad wording, panicking about exactly how I miss wrote the one thing I felt I'd explained the best. To the point that I don't even want to apply again out of fear that I'll be blacklisted. Now let it be known I'm not asking for help, as im fairly certain that it is just one single word that I've gotten wrong, but I use myself as an example because if I am wrong, I can never play on this server, ever.

EDIT: Fix iPhone spelling mistakes and clarify.

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Moosty    0

I think it would be interesting, and also a way to further test someones creativity chops, if instead of just describing a rule, you write a short 1000-2000 character story that highlights that rule in action. Easier for people with less technical writing skills to get through, and harder for people to abuse their technical writing skills and just re word the rule without truly understanding it.

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EddieVec    0

I thought that the tricky thing with the rules description was the fact that you could very easily have two windows open to cross reference your description.

It may be no faster as a white-list, but a set of scenarios could be written out and an appropriate response to those scenarios requested. This would test, comprehension of the rules rather than parrot learning, though I think the thing to bear in mind is that even idiot trolls will be able to lie about their intentions in an application if their intentions are less than constructive :(

By design, someone with mischief intended is going to be a dishonest person, and no amount of rule checking will necessarily enforce those rules with them. It is more work, I realise, but the post-app report system is the real defence against trolls and griefers.

I have no doubt it has been suggested before, but could the admins take on trusted members as a white-list approval group? This might take the load from their backs.

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Chinchilla    77

Hey, relatively newly white listed person here, thought I'd toss in my two cents.

I went 1/3 on getting approved. The first time I tried to make a summary of each rule. So I call that one a wash as I was unaware of the seriousness I actually needed to take in describing all parts of a given question/rule.

The second time I got denied was because I didn't understand part of a rule. Not that I didn't know it, but more because of the wording of the way it was written confused me. However! All I had to do was send a PM, get on TS and there was clarification.

The community helpers are really awesome here, and since I was coming from various other communities I honestly didn't expect that. Which speaks volumes for the community as a whole.

Also I think being told what you put wrong in the app is amazing, it's what made me realize that what I thought the rules were saying was incorrect, which gave me the push to ask some of the com helpers.

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Moosty    0

Hey, relatively newly white listed person here, thought I'd toss in my two cents.

I went 1/3 on getting approved. The first time I tried to make a summary of each rule. So I call that one a wash as I was unaware of the seriousness I actually needed to take in describing all parts of a given question/rule.

The second time I got denied was because I didn't understand part of a rule. Not that I didn't know it, but more because of the wording of the way it was written confused me. However! All I had to do was send a PM, get on TS and there was clarification.

The community helpers are really awesome here, and since I was coming from various other communities I honestly didn't expect that. Which speaks volumes for the community as a whole.

Also I think being told what you put wrong in the app is amazing, it's what made me realize that what I thought the rules were saying was incorrect, which gave me the push to ask some of the com helpers.

Ya I just sent in my first whitelist app. It hasn't came back yet, but I summarized the rules more so than I reworded them. So Im sure I left out some detail that was necessary, and that's fine, I didn't realize it was supposed to be so exact. I'll do fine on the next one. It does seem to me though that we're just supposed to jump through hoops and parrot back the rules page rather then demonstrate an actual understanding. And with how easy it is to have both tabs open, rewording the entire page is more time consuming busy work than an actual understanding of rules. I can't really judge too harshly though, if you got whitelisted, you had to have actually read the rules. No way around it. So even if it could be improved, the current system gets the desired result. People on the servers have read the rules. Parroted back or not, they read them. And I guess that means the system works pretty well.

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EddieVec    0

Moosty, I think you're right there. What they do achieve with the rules part of the whitelist app is stopping people from being able to say "I didn't know that nobody ever told me." Nobody can claim ignorance to the rules, which will of course make the whole reporting side of things as a post process a lot cleaner and more drama free I hope.

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Maldhyr    0

Well Moosty, I do have an interesting char story to tell and that can easily spawn 2000 words. And I think that part should dominate a RP server because that is what you are looking for in the first place. But it looks that that is less important… And that seems obvious because it is easier to judge if someone has rewritten the rules (as an assumption he/she will understand them and abide them) than to judge if a person would fit in and thus has an interesting story to tell.

And in a way I can understand.. being a Lecturer at a Dutch University of applied science I know firsthand that it is hard to assess in the same way, but if you get feedback on your rejection and a second time ‘suddenly’ other things are lacking as well then my back hairs go straight up. It simply means that there’s not a good assessment tool/instruction used by the reviewers.

For me it means I will have to think a week or so whether I will want to re-apply since the fun and eagerness to bring something to the RP table and meet/play with people on this server is hindered by my reluctance to write as if I was talking to a kid. And like my first post… I have no troubles showing I understand the rules and can abide them but this is a bridge too far for me, so to say… And again, no offense and I do understand but may not wish to go with it :)

Regards and maybe till a week or so…

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