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Smith

Arm-band Usage

What are your thoughts on armband usage?  

66 members have voted

  1. 1. What are your thoughts on armband usage?

    • I agree with points 1 & 2
    • I agree with point 1
    • I agree with point 2
    • I disagree with all points made


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Smith    1

The other day, another group and mine got into a firefight in Stary Sobor - and overall it was a clusterfuck. It was difficult to identify who was the enemy and who was just random survivors passing through the area or who just wanted to watch the shit go down.

One of the primary reasons for that situation being such a mess is the lack of clan tags in-game, which nothing can be done about yet. With the recent addition of armbands, their use has somewhat been a proxy filler for clan-tags, albeit they aren't perfect.

In said situation, a problem we faced is that the hostile group was also travelling with another group, who had different coloured armbands. When we initiated on the hostile group, we weren't sure if these different coloured armbands were with them - ultimately, they WERE, as they were a dynamic group (as per the new rules for SA) which led to some of our members getting shot in the back - as they hadn't complied but acted as if they weren't involved.

Where am I going with this, you might ask? Well I'm going to propose two fairly straightforward suggestions:

1) Large Dynamic Groups should wear the same coloured armband

2) Non-affiliated survivors should avoid wearing arm-bands, lest they risk being mis-identified being part of a group which they have no connection with

I will discuss each point in turn.

1) When I say Large Dynamic Groups (henceforth LDG), I refer to groups larger than 5 individuals, most likely on the same TS channel, who are roaming around the country. It is more than likely that they are an active group in the lore, but the possibility remains that they could just be some random survivors (friends OOC, perhaps) banding together. Most groups already do this anyway, but I feel like it should be more encouraged regardless.

If a LDG of say, X members, where half are in red armbands and the other in black come across another LDG of Y members, where all are in pink - group X will have an unfair advantage over Y, as they will know exactly whom their targets are. Group Y will suffer confusion if they know that the X members in black are hostile (thus initiate) but unknowingly also initiate on X members in red.

Getting armbands is not a difficult procedure. If you're to roam around and consider yourselves a dynamic group of such a size, requesting that you all wear the same armbands is not much to ask - it helps ease the burden on the reports being made about misidentification and such, and only makes the game flow smoother.

1.1) I would even go further to suggest that if you are with a LDG of that size, and you're not wearing the same colour (including lack of) armband, you will not count as being part of that dynamic group and thus do not share KOS rights - you will have to initiate separately. This sub-suggestion will need some discussion, however, as I know it is not perfect.

2) This is just common sense. I understand that to complete your survivor look you want to wear that armband - but players should be reminded of the risk they take by wearing armbands. If my group comes across people with armbands we will ask what it means - I imagine other groups do the same if they recognise a colour their enemies wear. Naturally it wouldn't be a problem 90% of the time but if you stumble across a firefight, take your armband off lest you get misidentified. You wouldn't want to die for a cause you have no affiliation with, so don't take the chances. If you still want to wear the armbands then it is as you please, but understand the risk you are putting yourself in.

How does this tie in with point 1? Well, if the sub-suggestion of 1.1 is the case, then being killed in a firefight whilst not wearing an armband will definitely point more toward the shooter's guilt of misidentification. If you ARE wearing the same colour armband, the situation is much more ambiguous and some guilt can be placed upon the victim.

Overall, I think that until we have clan tags, arm-bands and their usage should be strongly pushed towards identification of dynamic and lore-active groups. The suggestions I have stated above are steps in the right direction, I feel, but are obviously open to more discussion on the matter.

Disclaimer - I realise I didn't make it obvious enough, but these suggestions apply to hostile confrontations. By all means, wear whatever you want - but when approaching the occasional firefight, be wary of your armband. My suggestions about LDG apply to when the group wishes to share KOS rights.

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Tamaster92    14

Nope.

A) Shouldn't restrict a IG item to only clans - I wear an armband as a signifier of someone who died and was important to me.

B) DayZRP isn't about clan warfare, it's about RP. The armbands help promote clan RP and rumours whilst also helping ID targets sometimes - they don't need turning into a rule fo clans to kill each other. We have dynamic groups for a reason.

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   32

I think that you can't tell ppl that they must wear or don't wear something. But that's my point of view.

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Smith    1

A) Shouldn't restrict a IG item to only clans - I wear an armband as a signifier of someone who died and was important to me.

As I said, that's fine, but when approaching an area where there is a firefight, understand the risks you place yourself in. My suggestions mostly apply to hostile conflicts, not for situations outside of them.

B) DayZRP isn't about clan warfare, it's about RP. The armbands help promote clan RP and rumours whilst also helping ID targets sometimes - they don't need turning into a rule fo clans to kill each other. We have dynamic groups for a reason.

I'm not saying it is, I'm saying on the occasions that large dynamic groups are wanting to share KOS, they should wear the same armband to ease the load on identification. The rule about dynamic groups is far from perfect, and I personally feel that armbands can help it somewhat until we get clan tags.

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Tamaster92    14

A) Shouldn't restrict a IG item to only clans - I wear an armband as a signifier of someone who died and was important to me.

As I said, that's fine, but when approaching an area where there is a firefight, understand the risks you place yourself in. My suggestions mostly apply to hostile conflicts, not for situations outside of them.

B) DayZRP isn't about clan warfare, it's about RP. The armbands help promote clan RP and rumours whilst also helping ID targets sometimes - they don't need turning into a rule fo clans to kill each other. We have dynamic groups for a reason.

I'm not saying it is, I'm saying on the occasions that large dynamic groups are wanting to share KOS, they should wear the same armband to ease the load on identification. The rule about dynamic groups is far from perfect, and I personally feel that armbands can help it somewhat until we get clan tags.

Personally I hope we don't get clan tags. There was so much metagaming in the mod due to XMLS and clan skins and other BS that we have now managed to get rid of, I'd rather it stay that way.

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   32

A) Shouldn't restrict a IG item to only clans - I wear an armband as a signifier of someone who died and was important to me.

As I said, that's fine, but when approaching an area where there is a firefight, understand the risks you place yourself in. My suggestions mostly apply to hostile conflicts, not for situations outside of them.

B) DayZRP isn't about clan warfare, it's about RP. The armbands help promote clan RP and rumours whilst also helping ID targets sometimes - they don't need turning into a rule fo clans to kill each other. We have dynamic groups for a reason.

I'm not saying it is, I'm saying on the occasions that large dynamic groups are wanting to share KOS, they should wear the same armband to ease the load on identification. The rule about dynamic groups is far from perfect, and I personally feel that armbands can help it somewhat until we get clan tags.

Personally I hope we don't get clan tags. There was so much metagaming in the mod due to XMLS and clan skins and other BS that we have now managed to get rid of, I'd rather it stay that way.

Exacly. I think now it's good how it is. Just like in real life. If some group want to wear pink armbands - they wear pink armbands but if they want to operate in large group without it - it's ok.

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Guest   
Guest

Nahh, I like being the scary red arm band chedaki's who come to the prison island :D

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Subso    0

I agree with Tamaster.

Freedom of wearing everything you want! \o/

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Guest   
Guest

No point it will be abused anyway like it already is.

if you know the colours of a certain group you can do a significant amount of baiting and impersonation leading to mis-IDs anyway.

Its far too easy to take one off and put another on then claim otherwise and do tonnes of dodgy crap with it.

also the situation the other day had very little to do with armbands its more the fact they claimed flat out that they wasnt part of the group involved then shot us anyway mid RP.

Armbands or no wouldnt have made a difference.

What we really need is admin maps(dont think we have them already) because im 90% sure half of those people blatantly were not within 500m when they turned up claiming to not be involved which was technically true because they wasnt...

they are an item of clothing and shouldnt be treated as any form of real identification as its ridiculously easy in the SA to turn a corner and come back around with a completely different outfit.

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Guest Likurja   
Guest Likurja

You guys seem to miss the point here.

Its not about ONLY clans can wear armbands.

Its about that if you come across a firefight zone and you are NOT part of it then you should take it off so you don't get accidently missID'd.

Please read the thread before voting and posting because all I see here is everybody blindly agreeing with somebody.

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Guest   
Guest

I'll just take my statement from the Skype chat as it represents my point perfectly:

IMO there's no real problem behind that. Take a look at the mod. There have been many cases of people copying a clans uniform only to get an advantage.

Just identify your targets better. That's all there is to say

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Guest   
Guest

IMO there's no real problem behind that. Take a look at the mod. There have been many cases of people copying a clans uniform only to get an advantage.

Just identify your targets better. That's all there is to say

pretty much this there is nothing than can really be done.

people will always find ways to no get identified or bait such as:

1. changing clothes

2. changing accents

3. blatantly claiming to be someone else / not involved

you get the idea armbands wont help because anybody can put them on/take them off and nothing can really stop them.

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Guest Likurja   
Guest Likurja

-snip-

Just identify your targets better. That's all there is to say

Its easy to say from some like you who doesn't PVP that often. Sure on paper it sounds easy, "Go ID him" but when you are in a clusterfuck as Smith said you can't just run out of cover and check somebody closer.

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Guest neom   
Guest neom

A) Shouldn't restrict a IG item to only clans - I wear an armband as a signifier of someone who died and was important to me.

As I said, that's fine, but when approaching an area where there is a firefight, understand the risks you place yourself in. My suggestions mostly apply to hostile conflicts, not for situations outside of them.

B) DayZRP isn't about clan warfare, it's about RP. The armbands help promote clan RP and rumours whilst also helping ID targets sometimes - they don't need turning into a rule fo clans to kill each other. We have dynamic groups for a reason.

I'm not saying it is, I'm saying on the occasions that large dynamic groups are wanting to share KOS, they should wear the same armband to ease the load on identification. The rule about dynamic groups is far from perfect, and I personally feel that armbands can help it somewhat until we get clan tags.

Personally I hope we don't get clan tags. There was so much metagaming in the mod due to XMLS and clan skins and other BS that we have now managed to get rid of, I'd rather it stay that way.

There's just as much meta gaming now, even without the tags or arm bands

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Guest   
Guest

Its easy to say from some like you who doesn't PVP that often. Sure on paper it sounds easy, "Go ID him" but when you are in a clusterfuck as Smith said you can't just run out of cover and check somebody closer.

That's not even my point. Valkerion's respond to my post sums it up completely. It's not like we didn't have the exact same problem during the mod days. It's just gonna be abused and metagaming will continue as it has in the mod.

And even if we would introduce one of Smith's suggestions would it really help? On paper it might, but when it comes to CQC where most mis-IDs happen it's all about who shoots first. You cannot tell me that when you're flanking and around a corner you run into somebody you've got enough time to check the small armband. And even if you have that time, you could as well just re-initiate.

You said this:

"Go ID him" but when you are in a clusterfuck as Smith said you can't just run out of cover and check somebody closer.

1. When you're that far away, and let's pretend he got the right coloured armband it still isn't a 100% proof that he's a legit target. He might as well be a stranger who happened to have the same armband but came close to the firefight.

1.1 And if you're sure that this guy 200 meters away is a valid target then you don't need the armbands. As you probably have seen him anyway.

2. Let's pretend it's in a town, you don't need to leave cover to re-initiate via voice or just give him a warning that there's a firefight and he should better leave otherwise he might be shot. However, if the stranger blatantly abuses this to get a kill then record & report.

3. You said you can't get out of cover to get closer to ID him. If you're close enough to see the armband you're already in voice range. So see point 2.

If you're far enough away to check through a scope without leaving cover/peaking point 1.1 applies.

As I said already, I don't see the need for his particular system. The idea is good but the fear of metagaming is real and my mentioned points make sure IDing can be done properly without the "dangerous" arguments you mentioned.

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Guest Doug Quade   
Guest Doug Quade

Armbands can also be considered camo to help blend in with a group, or to purposefully mislead others in to thinking you are associating with a certain group or element. Great tool for surviving IMO.

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No piece of clothing whatsoever should be tied, legislated or required in the context of a rule, EVER. Clothing is clothing and that's all it should ever be. It is the aggressor's burden to identify their targets, not the other way around. If you cannot identify a target in a firefight, just don't take the shot, it's that easy. Control over the identification of groups leads more than often to metagaming like the XML used to, I prefer the way things are now, it is way more realistic.

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Guest bobman235   
Guest bobman235

it would just make it harder to keep a group together. making it so you need armbands to share kos rights.

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Pussy    312

Battles can definitely get pretty confusing and intense when you have a bunch of people running around. The last thing you want to do is kill one of your own members, or be killed by an opponent because you thought they were on your team. This being said, I agree with the majority of the people when they say that the use of different coloured armbands per "clan" can lead to a lot of meta gaming.

Best thing to avoid confusion is to identify allies by a specific article of clothing they like to wear. In my group of friends, we all have that one thing that our characters like to wear, and so that truly helps identify peole.

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Crighton    0

I believe the groups having a specific arm band is a good idea yes. However at this early stage I do not agree with it. There should be More distinguishing markings on Armbands (ie combining of armbands or adding logos onto armbands). Only having one solid color to go off of will cause obvious problems.

As nice as it would be to distinguish the different groups from one another, lets be honest the arm bands are pretty cool to wear. To only allow the different groups to use them and have penalty of being shot by a rival faction just for wearing another factions arm band is silly. With so few color options it would not be a plausible feature at the present time sadly. But still a Great idea.

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Guest   
Guest

I disagreed with all points

My character wears ruined clothes and I use the Armband (same color as jacket) to make it look like I am using stuff to hold my clothing together. You just have to identify people to the best of your ability and if need be re-initiate or kidnap people. Just because you are in a firefight doesn't mean you need to stay till last man standing. It should always be about value of life not licking your chops at what gear you are going to get. Not saying thats what your intentions are. I always think if you can get a few kills, kidnap the enemy and get the hell out of dodge quickly is always a good option.

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   2

My opinion, armbands should be treated as every other piece of clothing in the game and that is not a viable way to ID someone.

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Daniel    2

No, everyone has the right to wear armbands I don't see why me and some other random guy shouldn't be allowed to wear one to identify each other...

As it was stated several times in the past it is your responsibility to identify your emeny and if you identify them by an armband only it is your fault.

I remember during Sgru one of our guys shooting at someone wearing a ghillie, cz 550 within the firefight area ( same gear as enemy) but the wrong person and he got banned....

It's always been like that. Identify your targets, keep them in your vision and don't get backstabbed

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