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Nova_Ethridge

Hostage Care vs. KOS?

Question

Yes, believe it or not I actually have a rule question for the staff!

If you take a person hostage, but you have KOS rights on them, do you have to keep them alive?

My interpretation of the rules (using the common sense clause, of course) would be that you do not. You're allowed to let your hostage die in that instance. What's the difference between handcuffing them and throwing them in a room full of zombies, or poisoning them, or just putting a bullet in their head?

What's the official stance? Do I still have to keep my hostage alive if I have legitimate kill rights on them?

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23 answers to this question

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Guest samseed666   
Guest samseed666

I agree with you. I say you can kill them(or allow them to die)

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Guest neom   
Guest neom

If you have legit KOS then by all means you should be able to end said life, but while in your care top rp and care of the hostage is a must

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ObeSpartan    0

If you have legit KOS then by all means you should be able to end said life, but while in your care top rp and care of the hostage is a must

Thats what i thought too!

Sadly not everybody does this

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Guest   
Guest
Those who control the freedom of their victim(s) must do everything in their power to keep their victim(s) alive and in relatively good health, unless they have good in character reason to execute their victim(s).

According to this, from the rules. You can kill them. So, since you have legit KoS rights you have no reason to keep them alive. KoS>Hostage Care

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Preplin    0

I believe if you have KoS rights on a hostage of yours, that translates to execution rights. So go ahead, pop em in the head! (unless staff say otherwise, then abort :D)

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Hollows    410

I've actually been faced with the same question.

We were initiated on by a group of 3-4 individuals a few nights ago on Prison Island (Soon to be Regs Isle), and we managed to kill 1 and capture the others. We were originally planning a possible execution but postponed it for more Prison-Prisoner RP, which we decided would be more fun, so we scrapped the execution all together.

Would like to see an answer for future experiences, and hello again, Lucia!

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DJREX    0

The way I've always taken it is if you have a hostage and get attacked by said hostages friends and gain KOS on said hostage and all friends have been taken care of it is poor roleplay to just off them, especially when there are plenty of roleplay opportunities. Also to end I believe if you have just meant for the first time and it was one fight I don't believe with in rules sight that you have right to execute, but that's my personal look on the rules.

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Ark    198

If you take a person hostage, but you have KOS rights on them, do you have to keep them alive?

If have kos on a person and then decide to take them hostage you would be required to follow all the rules regarding taking a hostage. The only reason around this as im sure you know is if you qualify for execution rights.

With that being said do you feel your question has been answered?

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SweetJoe    278

You raise a good point and it should be discussed, however here is the official standpoint on the matter...

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Damn passphrase was in my initial image, so i replaced it with one that doesnt have it. lmao hard to find my ass.

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If you take a person hostage, but you have KOS rights on them, do you have to keep them alive?

If have kos on a person and then decide to take them hostage you would be required to follow all the rules regarding taking a hostage. The only reason around this as im sure you know is if you qualify for execution rights.

With that being said do you feel your question has been answered?

so.. let me get this straight. If you have Kos rights and choose roleplaying keeping him hostage over shooting the guy, you suddenly have to keep the guy alive?

For instance, Me and my friend are in a firefight with another guy.

My friend dies and I can shoot the guy when I see him.

But then I choose to hold him hostage instead of shooting him immediatly, and then execute him in a roleplay wise.

That would be alright wouldn't it?

The rule only stands on keeping the hostage alive if you don't have a reason to shoot the guy, such as robbing someone and then taking him hostage?

But if you do have kos rights because the guy killed your friend, you therefor can roleplay out the execution when you have him hostage?

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Yokai    0

Hmm.. I think if you have KOS rights.. you should be able to to execute them after detaining them. I think this actually IMPROVES RP...

I think it could make some really "intense" execution situations instead of just killing for non-compliance. A group could "make and example" out of bandits or something like that...

I mean, if they can't execute them (within kos rights,) they are pretty much forced to KOS instead of detain.. limiting the RP to be honest.

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Ark    198

so.. let me get this straight. If you have Kos rights and choose roleplaying keeping him hostage over shooting the guy, you suddenly have to keep the guy alive?

Once they become your hostage, you have to look after them, end of story like I said the only way is around this is if you have valid execution rights on the person.

Hmm.. I think if you have KOS rights.. you should be able to to execute them after detaining them. I think this actually IMPROVES RP...

I mean, if they can't execute them (within kos rights,) they are pretty much forced to KOS instead of detain.. limiting the RP to be honest.

While it might improve rp in the moment it doesn't add anything to it in the long run as they wouldn't be able to remember anything that happened due to NLR. However if you feel this rule should be changed feel free to make a discussion about it.

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Yokai    0

so.. let me get this straight. If you have Kos rights and choose roleplaying keeping him hostage over shooting the guy, you suddenly have to keep the guy alive?

Once they become your hostage, you have to look after them, end of story like I said the only way is around this is if you have valid execution rights on the person.

Hmm.. I think if you have KOS rights.. you should be able to to execute them after detaining them. I think this actually IMPROVES RP...

I mean, if they can't execute them (within kos rights,) they are pretty much forced to KOS instead of detain.. limiting the RP to be honest.

While it might improve rp in the moment it doesn't add anything to it in the long run as they wouldn't be able to remember anything that happened due to NLR. However if you feel this rule should be changed feel free to make a discussion about it.

Ok thanks. I think this rule *might* need to be changed.. but I'll actually leave that up to Lucia as she is the one who started this thread. I'll definitely participate though.

EDIT: Shit you're about the NLR.. I was thinking in terms of Perma-death.

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Rifleman    14

If you have valid KoS on somebody, you do not always have to use those rights.

As the rules always state - Roleplay over Ruleplay - So if you manage to take people hostage, you should make it your best effort to roleplay with them and should follow the typical hostage procedure.

Also, executions should only be reserved for people if you have severe IC grudges against them - so you've been robbed by them, attacked and shot at by them significantly over the series of several weeks or months - so much so to condone your character wanting the other one dead.

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MatthewFC    9

So, in a situation where everything has been properly roleplayed and still you have the option to either kill or make a hostage of another person, these options are made mutually exclusive. If you wanted to roleplay a longer-than-strictly-necessary process to kill, the victim can claim they were taken hostage, and killed while complying. So, effectively, you're encouraging to RP less and just kill fast to save yourself the trouble. A rule change might be necessary.

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Yokai    0

If you have valid KoS on somebody, you do not always have to use those rights.

As the rules always state - Roleplay over Ruleplay - So if you manage to take people hostage, you should make it your best effort to roleplay with them and should follow the typical hostage procedure.

Also, executions should only be reserved for people if you have severe IC grudges against them - so you've been robbed by them, attacked and shot at by them significantly over the series of several weeks or months - so much so to condone your character wanting the other one dead.

Ok so if you have KOS rights AND a long history between the two parties it's then ok to execute them? This is the situation I was talking about. .not just some random robbery group.

Thanks for the clarification !

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Rifleman    14

If you have valid KoS on somebody, you do not always have to use those rights.

As the rules always state - Roleplay over Ruleplay - So if you manage to take people hostage, you should make it your best effort to roleplay with them and should follow the typical hostage procedure.

Also, executions should only be reserved for people if you have severe IC grudges against them - so you've been robbed by them, attacked and shot at by them significantly over the series of several weeks or months - so much so to condone your character wanting the other one dead.

Ok so if you have KOS rights AND a long history between the two parties it's then ok to execute them? This is the situation I was talking about. .not just some random robbery group.

Thanks for the clarification !

If you have the long history, then you should RP out the situation accordingly before executing the person if you want to. Note that you should only do this against the person you have the severe IC grudges against alone. So say you initiate on this guy whose been messing with you for weeks and his friend, you should only execute that person who had been messing with you.

As I said though Roleplay > Ruleplay - you don't HAVE to execute someone, even if you have the rights to for the sake of producing good roleplay.

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Mush    2

When I was in staff I always thought of it as this:

If you have KoS on a hostage, you may use it at any point in time as long as it doesn't completely destroy the roleplay taking place.

If you rob someone, and they comply you obviously do not have KoS rights on them.

My stance on your final question: no. In my opinion, you don't have to keep them alive. But just ensure that the roleplay doesn't suffer because of your actions.

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I guess this answers my question...sort of...but not really.

So...even if I can just outright shoot someone, if I take them hostage, now I suddenly have to keep them alive. I can't torture them to death, or intentionally starve them, or force them to walk off of a cliff? Or, I can, since that would be an execution, I guess, but can I execute someone I just met if I have KOS rights on them? I would imagine that the "hostile history" clause of the revenge rights rule are superseded by legitimate KOS rights.

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Tamaster92    14

I would imagine Lucia that by taking them hostage you are trying to provide a RP end to the hostilities instead of a death end. If you wanted to kill them, why not use the KOS rights in the first place?

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Terra    1363

Just because you have KoS rights does not mean you have to use them.

Roleplay over ruleplay.

In this case:

You actually took your time and got the one you have KoS rights on, and you did not use them the second you saw the person.

You decide to take him with you as a hostage. You can torture him or maybe you interrogate him in a nice or a rough way.

Now here comes the thing:

If this is someone you have met several times before, and the encounters were always hostile, or this is a member of an enemy group with a history of hostile actions, then you might execute the person.

If this is a person which just robbed you and you never met him before, then there is no such thing like "execution rights".

You might have KoS rights, but you took the time to get him as your hostage (which is great) now the rule is: Roleplay over ruleplay.

You can create awesome RP and build an IC grudge.

If you execute the person, you take this all away. (NLR)

I have to admitt, that I am not a fan of executions and I would always prefer to let the person go, even I take the risk to get killed, because my hostage has KoS rights on me.

But that is a risk every 'bandit' has to take.

To be a Bandit is not easy and it should be exactly that way.

So if I choose to take the person I HAVE KOS-rights ON as my hostage, I have to care for him like the rules say. (unless there is an IC grudge of course and executions should be used very rarely)

It is stated in the rules: 3868a8cb9f.png and dont "attack" a person, which can be easily changed to "kill" without an valid IC reason.

Rules

I do not see the need to change this rule at all.

Terra

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I would imagine Lucia that by taking them hostage you are trying to provide a RP end to the hostilities instead of a death end. If you wanted to kill them, why not use the KOS rights in the first place?

No, I agree! What I'm asking is whether or not you're allowed to roleplay out an execution on someone you have no history with if you do have KOS rights on them.

Terra answered my question, which is: When you take the person hostage, your KOS rights are nullified.

This can be marked as solved.

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Ark    198

Terra answered my question, which is: When you take the person hostage, your KOS rights are nullified.

This can be marked as solved.

/solved

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