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Server time (UTC): 2021-10-22 20:13

We need to clarify TP rules.


Leon

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Hello folks,

Since now a couples of days, I saw many, too much threads on the report/discussions about TP rules.

Here are some...

Reports in TP.

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-invalid-kos-tradepost

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-stolen-vehicle-rdm-at-tp

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-invalid-kos-tp

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-stolen-vehicles-at-tp

Discussion about TP

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-tradepost-trolling

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-messing-around-in-the-tp

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-tradepost-hostile-actions

____________

The rules -> 4. Safe zone

The trade post is a safe zone located near Prigorodki, north east of Chernogorsk. The TP is marked as a blue circle on the map. Use "ihavereadtherules" as the phrase when whitelisting. TP is a safe zone and thus no hostile actions of any sort can be initiated inside or around it.

Then why so many report? Because the rules are not clear enough, too many "Grey zone", unsure area. Some people takes advantage of those rules and use them in a bad way.

_______________________

What I want to prevent/clarify with this thread.

1- Robbing people near TP, where is the "limit" of the safe zone?

My P.O.V: I think the limit apply to all the TP and the dirt road around it, the question stay, what about the main road? I'm sure this one is not safe at all.

2- Stealing from someone inside TP, what the victim CAN do and what he CAN'T do.

My P.O.V: We saw some reports about that one, stealing is a hostile action. But it's just very hard to judge if the person who stole something deserve to be shot at. One thing sure, stealing vehicles is punishable of death even in TP...

3- Robbing someone and fleeing right to TP to avoid being kill, shouldn't there be a "cooldown" if the victim is still alive?

My P.O.V: This is my favorite one, I saw too many bandit robbing people and fleeing directly to TP to avoid death/revenge by the victim, this should be a ILLEGAL action and reportable fact. No one should use the safe zone like this. We should always imagine there is a compagny of well trained guards, protecting TP at all costs, those guards are not affiliated with any clan and they never leave TP BUT they don't allow hostile actions, if someone is getting rob and the bandit flee to TP, those guards would shot him on sight.

4- Claiming vehicles in TP. After how much time, is it possible to do it?

My P.O.V: Touchy one also, can we steal vehicle in TP ? NO. But... if nobody claims them? There is always someone who will claim them unless the TP is empty and you are stuck alone with a car. I would say, take a vehicle only if you are alone and there is nobody else that could claim this vehicle. But if YOUR vehicle get stolen by someone, can you shoot him? Yes, I think so.

5- Trolling, when is the "Troll" a possible target? Do they deserve death? Trolling include : Tins can's throwing.

My P.O.V: Even when we are supposed to have a "mature" community, there is always some trolls trying to break RP experience for the others. Those trolls deserve nothing else than to be reported. If you catch a troll on action, report him. But, don't shoot him. Why? Because this is too much trouble for everyone, including the admin's/Gm's. The "trolls" will makes reports and will never stop. Just stay calm, record the event and then, report him with a solid proof. He will be punished.

__________________________________________

By writing this, I want to have clarification by the community about those questions and events we saw in the pasts days. TP is one of the last "Safe havens" of the entire Chernarus. We need everyone collaboration to make this a RP experience, a interesting fact for everyone.

TP shouldn't be less safe than the PCB's/Cherno. Players shouldn't avoid TP, because they fear to get killed. No, it should be a safe area.

I put this topic in the "suggestion" section of forum because I think we can add information to the rules. I believe we can clarify officialy the rules to avoid those problems.

I hope we can clarify all these questions all together,

Thank you for reading, AND what do you guys think? What should we do?

-Regards.

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Excellent post, Khamul.

I do agree there are way to many grey areas within the rules, but, with that being said.. I have a feeling someone, somehow, is going to find a way to slip through the cracks. And if the Admins/GM's make the rules too strict, DayZRP won't have it's unique quality that so many other servers lack.

It's a tricky situation, but I do think something needs to happen.

Hell, why not make a TP for Bandits and a TP for Survivors?

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  • MVP

i love the idea of a TP, i really do, but the fact that it needs rules IMO takes away from RP. The fact people can't just be civil while using it really ruins the benefit of it and IMO just remove the dang thing or leave it there and make it a base to fight over. Its just become more of a hassle then its worth.

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i love the idea of a TP, i really do, but the fact that it needs rules IMO takes away from RP. The fact people can't just be civil while using it really ruins the benefit of it and IMO just remove the dang thing or leave it there and make it a base to fight over. Its just become more of a hassle then its worth.

I do agree that it's quite the hassle, Zoarial. But, survivors look at it as a safe haven, a place to relax and not worry about being robbed. A place to hang with your buddies, and shoot the breeze.

I think if Bandits had they're own TP, it would add a new RP level to the game. Think about it, if you're in a post apocalyptic world, wouldn't the Bandits want something of their own?

In all honesty, you could change the name of the TP to something like 'Survivors Haven' and for the bandits have 'Bandits Hideout' or something along those lines.

I know it would be quite a lot of work, but, if you settle the problems with TP by doing so, wouldn't it be worth it?

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this is supposed to be a cold, harsh new world. doesn't anyone think thay having a 'safe haven' on the map detracts from RP too?

making it a nautral base, up for grabs to fight over would have much longer-lasting appeal i think.

edit: and lets be honest, thats exactly what would happen to it if this were a 'real' scenario.. it'd be overrun in hours.

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Panzer, it has always been, at least in my opinion, a place where the larger groups as well as NPC factions such as paramilitary operators and merchants, have agreed to put somewhere that is considered safe, and the reason you're not supposed to fuck around inside it is because you draw the ire of the people who work to make it safe.

I'm not going to hit on the points Kahmul made because I agree with them but I want to put this out there, and I've suggested it quite a few times before, both in PMs and Teamspeak: We need an invisible Gamemaster or Admin around the TP when they have time to monitor things. The TP is a nice place and I personally try to work to make it comfortable for the characters who come in, not out of allegiance to TOR because they have no official presence there, but because my character wants there to be a place where people actually act like human beings and not orangutans with guns.

There are way too many people who don't abide by the IC rules in TP, and there are some times when it might be acceptable, but people also tend to use voice to get around the fact that there are no logs of it unless someone records. That lets them talk about whatever they want and leave a nebulous area of blame in their wake.

Having someone on patrol in the TP at times, not 24/7, but as long as they remained invisible and could watch/listen and actually punish people who are being idiots in the TP would help. When punishments actually start getting handed out for lack of RP or for people stealing and overstepping the boundaries (Boundaries that I agree need to be better explained) people will start shaping up.

I know that the server doesn't want to have a long list of rules because they think it detracts from RP or might scare away new players, but at least from my experience since the rules were truncated we've had many, MANY more issues with people claiming the other person isn't using common sense and sticking vehemently to their own side of the story.

Expanding on the rules and clarifying what is meant will help to focus attention and get people in line. If you're going to punish someone for something it needs to be added to the rules so other people don't get bitchy when they don't see that exact action not listed somewhere.

We're dealing with a lot of people on the server, and while age plays some part in it, there is a lack of maturity in a lot of issues that a good smack with a fleshed out rule book would fix.

Patrol TP.

Expand rules.

Don't spare the rod with idiots. If they're causing shit they're probably not going to change. Lop off the hand to save the arm.

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  • Emerald

In my opinion, don't expand the rules. Remove them. Zoarial is right. If basic civility can't be maintained when it's required, then it might not belong in this game, and it's causing more trouble than it's worth to provide a sense of safety in an environment where there should be none.

If a clan wants to take charge and police their own state of rules over the trading post, that's some fantastic roleplay, and I would say "more power to you." Perhaps the Company can take up that role and provide security and rules for the TP. Frankly I'm sick of people relying on the blue circle on the map to make their experience easier. You can find safety in the guards that may stand watch over it, but a sense of canonical safety established without roleplay seems counter-intuitive for the server. If it's going to be disrespected, kamikazed, and exploited, I say we are better without it.

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  • MVP

In my opinion, don't expand the rules. Remove them. Zoarial is right. If basic civility can't be maintained when it's required, then it might not belong in this game, and it's causing more trouble than it's worth to provide a sense of safety in an environment where there should be none.

I will repeat myself, make a very tiny trade-post with no space for cars, choppers etc. This way it won't be a hang out place and be used for trading safely.

Two excellent points.

Implement both and you would see people actually trying to protect their stuff properly.

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i love the idea of a TP, i really do, but the fact that it needs rules IMO takes away from RP. The fact people can't just be civil while using it really ruins the benefit of it and IMO just remove the dang thing or leave it there and make it a base to fight over. Its just become more of a hassle then its worth.

ok so t first you ruined the trading post looks. nowyou freaking want to remove this thing at all? fvck dat sht

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  • MVP

i love the idea of a TP, i really do, but the fact that it needs rules IMO takes away from RP. The fact people can't just be civil while using it really ruins the benefit of it and IMO just remove the dang thing or leave it there and make it a base to fight over. Its just become more of a hassle then its worth.

ok so t first you ruined the trading post looks. nowyou freaking want to remove this thing at all? fvck dat sht

Posts like this not only fail to contribute anything to the discussion, but they're also kinda rude.

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  • MVP

i love the idea of a TP, i really do, but the fact that it needs rules IMO takes away from RP. The fact people can't just be civil while using it really ruins the benefit of it and IMO just remove the dang thing or leave it there and make it a base to fight over. Its just become more of a hassle then its worth.

This.

Reports will be halved if we just made it a PCB, which might actually see some use due to its proximity to NEAF. Also, a safe zone never quite "felt" right in an apocalypse, to be honest. Just my two cents, always ready to be proven wrong :)

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I don't have a problem with a safe zone because, at least as far as the canon world goes, you're never going to find a place to actually sit down and have some kind of civil role-play without a few people sacrificing their time to patrol and make sure you're not being set up for an ambush. The big TOR meeting we had with 12 or so people was really fun, but a couple of the members had to remain on watch which takes them out of the RP.

If the server is supposed to enforce the RP of the server you have to allow some kind of place for basic human interaction. The Walking Dead has the jail and whatever the name of that town is, for example. It doesn't detract from the danger that lurks just meters away but it is a place where people can feel slightly more "normal" and it gives people who want to have some kind of social time together the ability to do so.

That being said, I'm sadly going to have to agree with the Employer. People take advantage of it, and even from my own IC standpoint of trying to keep it stocked with what few supplies I can, nobody gives two shits about what's going on within it as long as they can rummage through tents, pickpocket people, or try to run off with a new vehicle.

I'll just point back to my previous post about more serious enforcement and maybe having some GMs who aren't busy or don't feel like playing their characters snooping around while invisible to catch the people who are ruining it and doling out strict punishment.

EDIT: Also, Zoarial, if you are really surprised that some of the players are trying to take advantage of the rules you must have far more faith in humanity than me.

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Would The Injected not attack a lone M.D.S member in the TP if there was nobody else watching? Of course they wouldn't, they'd execute him and make sure nobody found out.

It just doesn't make sense from a RP perspective that everyone would just stop hostilities inside a certain zone. Replace it with a PCB and maybe put a few medical spawns and some other gear to give incentive to hold it.

It would also be great to see clans installing their own rules and regulations, for example: The Injected making players pay a toll of morphine or other drugs in order to enter their camp.

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In my opinion, don't expand the rules. Remove them. Zoarial is right. If basic civility can't be maintained when it's required, then it might not belong in this game, and it's causing more trouble than it's worth to provide a sense of safety in an environment where there should be none.

If a clan wants to take charge and police their own state of rules over the trading post, that's some fantastic roleplay, and I would say "more power to you." Perhaps the Company can take up that role and provide security and rules for the TP. Frankly I'm sick of people relying on the blue circle on the map to make their experience easier. You can find safety in the guards that may stand watch over it, but a sense of canonical safety established without roleplay seems counter-intuitive for the server. If it's going to be disrespected, kamikazed, and exploited, I say we are better without it.

You have the right idea at the end with creating RP background to the tp and possibly centering a group around policing (possibly even canonically creating) it. But abolishing it as an area for relative safety will have a very negative effect on people. I don't know about you, but I've seen TP used as a social hub for roleplaying and getting to know people more than I've seen people taking advantage of it.

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  • Emerald

If they can make the game stable with the newest update of DayZ then this will be solved, it won't be a safe zone, zombies will spawn in the area, and the more people in an area the more zombies spawn, it is a safe area from players in an RP perspective.

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  • MVP

I think the OP has some very good points.

But I do not agree with the suggestion that we should remove the TP entirely. It needs reforms, and just because changing and adding rules is complicated to uphold doesnt mean it isnt worth doing. Having a place to trade stuff is invaluable. Take away the trade post and it becomes so inpractical and dangerous that you pretty much kill the entire concept of "trade". Or at the very least, you make it a whole lot more complicated.

Simplifying and eradicating rules isnt always the answer.

Furthermore, as Mace said, you remove a place for some calm and social roleplay with people outside your clan.

Because of how this game/mod is built, most of the interaction outside of the group you know is tense and can end up lethal. There should be room for roleplay beyond that, and the trade post can help make it easier, at least on a spontaneous level.

I also -REALLY- dont buy the realism and "enforced safety in a world where there should be none" arguments. People keep saying that "well in the real world a trade post like this wouldnt work because there isnt any magical admin rule enforcement to keep the savages at bay."

While that's true, its very important to note here that in the REAL WORLD you also follow a REAL TIMETABLE where people arent experiencing the apocalypse a few hours a day! That is a pretty important part there, because you'd have people trying to arrange security for the trade post(IRL it would be a pretty reasonable concept that a lot of people would have mutual gain from), and they'd do so 24/7. Here it is -litterly impossible- to do so 24/7 and all a bandit group has to do to raid/conquer/destroy the trade post is to attack when there isnt any security.

In short: IRL arguments like these DO NOT APPLY to DayZ because of how limited the experience is in comparison to how it would be IRL.

Im all for realism, but to a point. Lets stay reasonable about the degree of realism.

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I love realism. Every time I have my car worked on, its in the shop for at least 2 days, and they have tools. Considering an in-game 'day' is a restart (6 hours), Lets compromise and say we're all incredibly efficient, and we don't need lifts, hoists or cranes to rebuild engines. Should still take a minimum of a 'day'. We can just sit there for 6 straight hours while our guy goes clink clink clink. That's realism, right?

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