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Server time (UTC): 2021-10-22 20:35

Bring back old Barracks loot tables


Bring back the previous loot tables  

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Previously DayzRP's loot tables for barracks were near perfection and I will explain why it needs to be put back.

The airfield is considered a high tier area, an acheivement. It shows skill in managing to survive long enough to reach said area without death. The reward was going somewhere that there was a chance to find decent weapons and make zombie killing or banditism more entertaining.

Guns could be found, SVDs, PKPs, PKMs, the general fun stuff. There were other much rarer items such as KSVKs, NVGS, GPS and rangefinders. However these were ridiculosly rare to find already and I personaly have only seen a single one spawn after 5 days of straight farming, being robbed and destroying zombies around the airfield. This was all part of my RP and completly in character as I am attempting to scavenge a hidden weapon that will help me reclaim my girlfriend.

However in the last few patches the barracks new loot tables were introduced and to put it frankly they are disgusting. It has taken away a lot of the fun i was expereincing recently. After 3 days of attempting to scavenge for guns I have found nothing higher than an RPK. I have found over 100+ Ak74s and the like. It should not be so rare, the game was not designed to be played like this and for good reasons.

Some of you may find loot cycling as an unlegit way to obtain guns as guns do not respawn in real life. HOWEVER, this is a RP server, I consider this scavenging and every time searching a different area of that particular building and finding a hidden stash each time.

I see no reason why the loot tables have been screwed up too boot, just because a few people get the good luck to have found one or two high end weapons doesn't mean that feeling, that sense of fulfillment should be removed for the others. I personally during that period found rangefinders, thats all i found aside from 1 or 2 PKPs and PKMS, nothing major, and i was one of the biggest loot cyclers there during that time.

The entire time I have been loot scavenging I have been open to zombies, robberies and starvation and hunger. I have been robbed 10+ times and have had a lot of encounters there, it is how the game should be played. Hiding, Snooping, Scouting, being vigilant as well as having more opporutinty to RP with others of the same idea.

Now the barracks is to be put frankly a place to go and shit in, this is said literally because the most common thing to find is toilet paper next to the Ak74s.

Bring back the old loot tables please.

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I feel like you have good points but being in Russia as the setting is It would seem flawed to have American bunkers in their airfields.

I mean they re added a bunker in the North East Strip again so why not add one that is specifically American in iunno, a private camp or area?

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  • Emerald

You could also not loot farm and go out and roleplay, and stop worrying about your gun.

For hanging out in the dev room a lot, I know that they want guns to be this rare. As do I. They are accounting for the fact that people are loot farming to get better gear, so they compensate to keep a level playing field and a more realistic range of hardware. A lot of people don't want loot farming to be allowed in this game, as I've noticed in polls and threads on the matter. It's only very difficult to enforce, so they don't bother. So, they fixed the loot tables to make it a bit better. Fortunately, with server-side loot spawning in the standalone, it will be made impossible because the loot will all spawn on server restart.

...the game was not designed to be played like this and for good reasons.

You can't say that because they are still designing the game. The productive assistant to Rocket (his right hand man) shared in an interview with Shosho that they plan on removing many of the military weapons, leaving it to basic military as the rare weapons and a lot more civilian weapons. After that, they plan on ammo being much rarer as well. So by that logic:

:no:

I'm still pushing them to make loot respawn timers to be longer to ward off loot cycling. If you want to mindlessly farm for an item to get an automatic headstart on the competition and get a cheap sense of fulfillment, play something single player...or Runescape. In my opinion, all those hours you spent loot farming was wasted performance for the server, and a wasted slot that could have been taken by someone who contributes to the server with active, decent roleplay.

Loot farming could be compared to hacking. You won't stop until you get the item you want with no regard for your fellow players. It's practically the same thing, just a lot more time consuming. You aren't playing the game. You're raping it.


Also, that gun you are spending days to obtain will be lost in one day during a robbery, and is then in circulation for every macro bandit on the server. You're almost harming yourself more than anything.

EDIT: The server has now witnessed grumpy Employer. Excuse the attitude. Was cramming for a midterm and on minimal sleep. But my opinion is still the same.

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well if i would go to the NWAF before i would find like 3 ak's 1 svd 1 pp19 1 pkm or something like that. but now it's 12 ak's

highend military guns like mk's/ksvk's should be pretty rare like they are now but a bit more variaty like before would be nice

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You provide excellent points Employer, however I stand by all my above statements and the fact that the tuning has been done too harshly. The game is about having fun, killing zombies and being careful for players so that the gun does not circulate and you keep it.

I personally find it dull killing zombies with AK's and AKMs and I am sure many agree with me. And if you need proof i love killing zombies just check the leader-boards, this game is about surviving and killing zombies :D

Anyways only time will tell, the server numbers dwindle or swell with those who agree with the tables or not, I for sure will be playing a lot less while its like this. :(

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What we could do is decrease the amount of ak's and such but increase the loot respawn timer?

As long as you make it so theirs a legit chance of a decent damn item spawning once every 10 cycles idc how long the timer is.

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Just increase the chance to get higher end loot as this will fix the issue. The fact that the Russian weapons are shit in comparison to the NATO weapons should be enough of a reason to even give it a chance to spawn some Russian weapons that can contend with them.

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Guest Alpha
The airfield is considered a high tier area, an acheivement. It shows skill in managing to survive long enough to reach said area without death.

I beg to disagree. Whether you survive, comes down to your mindset. if you do not show any hostility to anyone and comply in any robberies, you will survive. 99% of all players on here (from what I have seen so far) are nice players who aren't doing it for just the killing. Ofcourse there's a few bad apples around, but that's what every community has. Also ever since I play here, I have only been robbed once, but once they noticed I was a Free Medic, they left me alone.

Also, I think the airfield's loot spawns are fine as it is. You can still find some good weapons but you'll just have to put a little more effort in finding it. I suggest you take the matter a bit IC, you can roleplay it as weaponry running out in Chernarus. Because you know, in a zombie apocalypse you need to understand that weaponry and supplies will run out over time, so you will have to become more creative with exploring, and be a little bit more careful with your gear.

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Guest Reniz

Imo the loot tables are somewhat fine as they are right now, what els would you expect from a zombie end of the world type of deal in a RUSSIAN part of the world? it wouldent make sens if a ton of american weapons spawned there or high end weapons alot as they would already have been taken by soldiers to try and defend what they are suppose to or just other survivors. We its a survival rp server afterall as it was siad before go out and rp instead of worrying about getting a high end weapon, if you really want one why not go hunt for camps instead?or crash sites.

Often a survivor would try and get in to a airfield look around quick for weapons or other usefull items and get out agin trying to avoid other survivors and walkers overall, they wouldent stay lingering around too long as it brings risks.

Overall the loot tables seems fine no matter how much i might want a higher level weapon its not really needed to deal with walkers and survivors as in the end it comes down to how well you aim not what weapon you use?

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Guest Alpha

Imo the loot tables are somewhat fine as they are right now, what els would you expect from a zombie end of the world type of deal in a RUSSIAN part of the world? it wouldent make sens if a ton of american weapons spawned there or high end weapons alot as they would already have been taken by soldiers to try and defend what they are suppose to or just other survivors. We its a survival rp server afterall as it was siad before go out and rp instead of worrying about getting a high end weapon, if you really want one why not go hunt for camps instead?or crash sites.

Often a survivor would try and get in to a airfield look around quick for weapons or other usefull items and get out agin trying to avoid other survivors and walkers overall, they wouldent stay lingering around too long as it brings risks.

Overall the loot tables seems fine no matter how much i might want a higher level weapon its not really needed to deal with walkers and survivors as in the end it comes down to how well you aim not what weapon you use?

Exactly, couldn't agree more.

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I havnt seen a single PKP or PKM for a week or so and SDS go through a lot of people and barracks. I completely agree with the fact that the barracks should only spawn russian weaponry, but the spawn rate of decent russian weapons are too low. I vote for an increased spawn rate and an increased spawn timer as well :)


The amount of western guns found at a single crash site is also a little high sometimes, but this might be a percentage number and might be hard to accurately control, i dont know :)

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  • MVP

I'm not sure if they should be reverted as such, but I'd be open to seeing adjustments made. From a playing perspective, I was fine with how it was before. Maybe it's not as RP as would be ideal, but it didn't feel like too much or too little.

Now though, perhaps I'm just exceptionally unlucky, but I've come across around 6 chopper crashes and a couple of plane crashes in the last week and found nothing but trash loot.

I have no problem with raise the loot timer either, fine with me.

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  • Emerald

NWAF should be high end game gear because that's why the risk is high, everyone heads that way and they risked getting robbed and killed but for what? some worthless ak's?

at least put some variety to it. we have this great increase in weapons (g36 and all that) but why do it when you can't even find one.

and i don't say fill it to the brim with rare weapons but at least increase the spawn chance.

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People need to stop worrying about weapons and instead focus on roleplay and interactions.

All guns do the same job, they shoot bullets and kill stuff. It doesn't matter what it looks like. This thread is just a complete disregard of the roleplaying elements of this server and its purely promoting powergaming.

Go play vanilla DayZ if you want the old loot tables back.

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  • MVP

People need to stop worrying about weapons and instead focus on roleplay and interactions.

All guns do the same job, they shoot bullets and kill stuff. It doesn't matter what it looks like. This thread is just a complete disregard of the roleplaying elements of this server and its purely promoting powergaming.

Go play vanilla DayZ if you want the old loot tables back.

Murray,

They are merely discussing the issue as it seems fair to fine-tune the loot spawn rates to find a perfect balance.

When all you find is AK's every single time, there is a little bit of a concern as to why people go there.

The go play somewhere else argument should not apply here.

If anything we should fine tune the weapon spawns and then heavily limit ammunition.

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  • MVP

People need to stop worrying about weapons and instead focus on roleplay and interactions.

All guns do the same job, they shoot bullets and kill stuff. It doesn't matter what it looks like. This thread is just a complete disregard of the roleplaying elements of this server and its purely promoting powergaming.

Go play vanilla DayZ if you want the old loot tables back.

But we are roleplaying guys who DO care about what guns they use. We are roleplaying going to NWAF and risking our lives for better equipment. I don't see what's the problem with that. Why do we do anything in DayZ? Why even have a gun at all? Why not sit in the TP all day and just go out to get some food at the market or kill a boar?

I'm using a crossbow and I love it. But that's because my character loves it. My character might prefer a G36 over an AK.

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Yeah, people who actually rob and fight eachother cares about the guns, its in our role playing to use those kinds of guns...after all it is a military simulator this arma 2 engine. we dont want the western guns in the barracks or anything we just want the high end russian weaponry to spawn a little more. right now you grab an AK or SA58 until you find a heli with Stanag weapons...theres not really any real value in the barracks and this affects the map and gameplay. The barracks should be valuable player hotspots.

Im guessing thats why they added more barracks as well so that you dont mainly hang around at NWAF, but theres not really any reason to be around the barracks now.


maybe not increase the sniper spawns that much, the CZ550 will do the job as well...but PKMs and PKPs need to spawn a little more :)

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  • MVP

So I don't know exactly where to start with this thread, but I'll just throw whatever comes to mind.

Also, I'm pretty much the guy that moderates and has all of the info on the loot tables. I can't give you guys too many details about them, but you're just going to have to trust me.

Pre-Note: Just because I disagree with many of you doesn't mean that I don't take criticism, this thread has given a lot of good input about what we need to do.

Pre-Note 2: If you don't actually legitimately read through everything I say, you have no right to argue against it.

Let's give a brief background on the first version of the loot tables we implemented:

Brief Background:

Originally, when we came out with the mod, we put out our first basic version of the loot tables. The basic first version of the loot tables were kind of thrown out there since we didn't know how it would act with 50+ players on a server. We needed to test the waters with what we had before we knew what to change.

In this first loot table, we weren't necessarily sure what we should make more rare and more common. We ended up giving most of the weapons a very rare chance of spawning, meaning that you would have a huge variety of guns that would spawn. This sounds all nice a perfect, but we ran into many issues once we put it out.

On the second day of the mod, I had at least 23+ individual active players (yes I counted) complain to me about how many high-end weapons were spawning. Within the first few days, a few people had some of the rarest guns in the game. Everybody in their mother basically had a KSVK and a VSS, and it was just a nightmare for anybody who wasn't in a clan.

Within a week, there were so many people with such high-end gear, that we were actually considering completely re-wiping the server and replacing it with a newer and more practical updated loot table. I couldn't even imagine the server after a few months of this loot table (with all of the loot cycling), as everybody would be tripping over these high-end weapons, which is extremely unrealistic in this setting.

Meanwhile, people were still complaining about how there too many good weapons spawning, so we changed the loot tables completely.

Changing the loot table:

We knew we had to basically revamp all of the rarities with weapon spawning. We also had to come up with a way to counter-act all of the loot cycling that happens on the server, so that we could prevent a shit-ton of good weapons lying about (just as it was with the mk48, DMR, and M107 in the DayZ loot tables).

In order to basically decrease all of the rarities of the weapons in the old loot table, we had to increase the spawn chance of the lower-mid tier weapons (as well as reduce the weapon spawn rate in whole).

This was an easy and practical fix. It allowed us to choose which weapons would be more commonly found in these settings. We increased the chance of the AK (low-mid) and left the rare items at the same spawn rate as they originally were. This made all of the items substantially rarer and more accurate to their real spawn rate

Ex.
Old loot table
`     Spawn Rate = 0.01 (1%), Realistic Spawn Rate = 0.15 (15%)

New loot Table
`     Spawn Rate = 0.01, Realistic Spawn Rate = 0.01359

Increasing the spawn rate drastically for the more basic and weaker weapons that you would more commonly find essentially made the loot tables much more accurate than they were.

Again, we increased low and mid weapons spawns in the barracks much more than they previously were. But this made it more realistic. Most Russian soldiers (in barracks) would have a standard issue AK (although due to the limitations of ARMA 2, we could only use AK74, AK-47's, and AK-107 Variants).

These types of weapons spawning would be much more balanced and realistic than PKPs, SVDs, PKMs, and KSVKs spawning like crazy before the update. It also made the higher-end weapons more rare, which prevented people from hoarding those weapons and making the server unbalanced.

Just as a note: We also did the same exact thing to Helicopter Crashes. We made the more basic (common) weapons spawn at a much higher rate than the rarer weapons. This effectively cut out all of the hoarding of the higher-end NATO weapons on the server. I have to laugh at times when you guys find a NATO weapon that you think is rare, when it actually isn't even close to being rare.

What I want to Achieve with our Loot Tables:

I primarily wanted to achieve six things with our version of the loot tables. I wanted to:

  • Give you guys a better RP experience with more lower-end / realistically common weapons
  • Introduce more alternative weapons
  • Promote trading much more than before-hand
  • Balance out the server firefights by limiting higher-end weapons (such a sniper rifles)
  • Make it so you can go into a firefight and never know what the other side has
  • Take players away from NWAF and actually promote them to move around the map for once.

Currently, I feel that we've accomplished some of these goals already. We have severely limited the amount of good sniper rifles that used to be very common in DayZ. A good sniper rifle is a rarity now and they are very prized.

We gave Chernarus a more realistic feel by increasing the amount of actual Russian/Czech weapons that would spawn. No longer is the server completely filled with players mostly running around with High-End NATO weapons.

We have effectively gotten more players to move around the map more in search for high-end weapons if they choose to go look for them. While very good weapons will still spawn at the Barracks (Much better than normal military loot), the barracks isn't just a hub for bandits now. You actually have to get off of your ass and move around the map if you want to find a good NATO weapon. This promotes server flow and more interactions with other players that are normally moving about the server.

I also feel that we've given trading a fresh restart now. People are actually willing to trade and collect weapons they have never seen before. There is actual bartering going on now and people actually prize weapons. This isn't like DayZ where you can die with an M107 and in less than a day, get another one back.

These were my personal goals and I'm not stating that they're perfect, and of course, they're up to suggestions and criticism.

The Problems with Loot Spawning:

Issue #1: Lack of Variety of Russian Weapons

I feel that this is the cause of many of you thinking that the barracks don't have any variety.

If you actually look at what ARMA 2 has to offer when it comes to Russian weapons, there isn't much, especially not compared to NATO weapons.

The Russian weapons that are in ARMA 2 are essentially AK/S-74's, 2 AK-47's, AK-107's, Sa58's, 2 PK's, a KSVK and a VSS. That is it. There isn't anything else they've really added to ARMA 2. You guys mostly complain about finding AK's because that's pretty much what Russia uses.

The AK series is the most common series of gun in the world, you should expect to find a lot of them, especially in "Russia". ARMA 2 gives a very wide variety of AK's, but that is pretty much it.

It isn't like with NATO weapons where we can have all of that variety with an M4, and then have G36's, L85's, etc. All we have is AK's.

This is why they seem so common.

Issue #2: Lack of Powerful Russian Weapons

As you can see with the weapons listed above, there isn't really any powerful Russian rifles compared to NATO weapons, and this is due to a few reasons:

1: The majority of these weapons shoot a slightly smaller round compared to the basic NATO weapons. AK's do 800ish less blood damage per hit compared to a basic NATO weapon. While these rounds are smaller, they are much quieter than NATO weapons.

2: There are only pretty much 2 variants of these Russian weapons that shoot a bigger round. Again, this is what ARMA 2 has given us to use, and they are pretty much the most common weapons that spawn at the barracks. They are louder than the smaller round variants, but they pack a lot of stopping power

3: There are a very small amount of Russian special weapons. These weapons are supposed to very extremely rare (the same with NATO weapons). Not everybody is supposed to have these weapons, as was the case before the loot table update.

Issue #3: Loot Cycling

Loot cycling is pretty much one of the main reasons we have loot table spawning issues on the server.

As many of you guys have admitted in this thread, you all try to loot cycle in order to get a "better weapon", rather than actually playing the game. DayZ is a zombie survival game, not a loot cycling simulator game. You aren't supposed to loot cycle.

Because I honestly can't trust any of the players on the server to not loot cycle, we have to make every single loot cyclable gun extremely rare. The inflation of guns on the server caused by the players on the server is so immense that the rarity of guns will degrade quickly.

An attempt at an analogy would be this (basic inflation principle):

Let's say you found $10 bill that randomly fell on the ground. You pick it up and you'd be on your way. You'd be very happy to have that $10 bill, but you know you wouldn't find one every time you returned to the same spot. Even though you just received $10, you didn't actually make a huge impact to the economy. It would pretty much be unnoticable.

But now let's say that if you returned to the same spot after every 10 minutes a $10 bill would magically spawn there. You would most likely return every 10 minutes to get another $10 bill for years to come. Even by yourself, you wouldn't make a huge impact to the economy for a few years.

Now imagine that there is 20 places around the world where $10 bills would magically spawned and now there were 20 people to pick them up every 10 minutes. In less than a few days, you and 19 other people would effectively overflood the market with more money than there actually was. This causes the value of the money to degrade to the point where it is virtually unusable (look at the 100 Trillion dollar Zimbabwe note).

This is basically what happens with players loot cycling on the server. You guys will spawn so many good weapons that the majority of the rare weapons aren't rare anymore. This essentially ruins item rarity.

I mean, Anubian, you openly admitted to just doing this for "5 days straight" and finding nothing. That is the point. You aren't supposed to just sit in one spot in the map and loot cycle. This isn't a loot cycle simulator game. If you want to waste your time breaking the game in this manner, then that is your fault.

This is not to say that some items are too common. It's just the fact that you're going to threaten to leave a game just because you can't loot cycle effectively.

This goes to all of you as well. The server is for role-playing and having fun, not just sitting in the corner of the map for hours on end loot cycling.

(Yes, as you can tell, I don't like loot cycling. I've done it before as well, but it is just childish and wrong. I see that now that I'm actually working on the loot tables)

Loot cycling was even going on before we updated to this new loot table. It is the reason we had to update the loot table.

I remember seeing an image of the loot cycling RF/CTC had done at NEAF. They essentially had a couple hundred items loot cycled infront of the barracks and hangar at NEAF. They had gotten a shit-ton of very good gear and effectively broke the game on the first day. What is the point of having all of these rare and unique weapons if you guys just want to loot cycle for hours to try to get one?

We really need to tackle the loot cycling issue on the server, either by punishing those who do it, or making the loot spawn timer a hour or more long (which would hurt everybody, especially new life characters).

Issue #4: Player Stagnation

Due to Issue #3 above, players will effectively sit in one spot on the server for hours on end, instead of actually moving around the server. This causes most of the server to become empty and decreases player interactions everywhere else on the server.

To try to get around this, as said earlier, we are trying to get you guys who actually want "good loot" to move around the map and search for Heli Crashes. They will spawn randomly around the server at a random time. This encourages people to drive/run around the map in order to try to find something better, rather than everybody sitting up in NWAF.

I know many of you bandits may not like how people are essentially sitting ducks for you at NWAF now, but that really isn't an issue. Players will still go there to find much better weapons, but it isn't something to rely on.

Issue #5: Weapon Hoarding

This is just a quick addition to my post:

When people find a lot of rare weapons, they will tend to try to stash them in hiding spots around the map. Many to all players will do this, and the amount of those weapons will build up dramatically. It will come to a point where you can be tripping over a certain weapon because they've been loot cycled that much. This is what happened to DayZ and with the old loot table.

RF had like 3-6 KSVKs within the first day of the server. Imagine if different clans and people continued to loot cycle like that to gain KSVKs. After a month, there would probably be more than 40 KSVKs hidden on the server alone. We have to make all of these high end weapons rare as we don't want to overflow the server with them. We want people to cherish any rare weapon they find, not just toss it like it was nothing and grab another backup they had.

To Conclude:

There are a lot of factors that we have to consider when we are making a loot table. We have to consider if the loot can be cycled, who is going to cycle it, how we can make loot rare, and how rare loot can actually affect server gameplay. You may have read this huge post and immediately think that I'm against any suggestion, but I'm not, quite the contrary actually. We generally take any suggestions players make and talk about them for a while before we actually implement them. It may seem like that these suggestions are going unheard, but I feel that it's because you don't know the full details behind everything. I hope this post clears it up a bit (Even though I can't actually tell you guys much).

This is pretty much my insight to the whole process.

We may have a solution at hand, but I cannot say anything about it.

End Note: Most of the Russian Weapon info I state is fairly common knowledge, and you can easily find it on DayZDB or ARMA 2 forums.

No tl;dr for you guys.

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I have gone though your reasoning and I find them sound and reasonable but there are however some solutions that can be implented. Some of the most essiential items to allow free movement are only found in the barracks too which is why loot cycling will always occur in that area. For example nightvision goggles.

Seeing as I play mostly at a certain time of the day and that time is always nighttime, I do not like changing gamma settings as feeling it is cheating, and I do not like revealing myself with chemlights and flares. Sure you find plenty of helicopter crash sites and good loot around them. However the zombies around these crashsites, lets say the pilots. I know you can change the gear they drop with, its percentage based like the building loot tables. Why not at least give military zombies a chance of dropping say NVGs, or a gun as well.

This adds to realism Military zombies would normaly have guns strapped to them, or a sidearm.

This promotes movement. Like you said more people moving around the map scavenging and RPing.

This handles loot cycling, players actually have to interact with their environment by killing zombies.

This handles story, items are not randomly respawning, they are being obtained through more legit manner.

They dont have to carry high tier guns, maybe a pistol like a g17 etc.

You can keep the spawn rates as low as the new barracks ones too prevent flooding, but being able NVGs and other items on military zombies would be ideal. Would solve a lot of issues instead of holding players down at locations, I myself do not wish to play in my allocated timeslot without NVGS.

The only thing I do not know is how the already set code would effect zombie behavier. Eg if they will still be able to attack properly with a gun on their back.

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  • MVP

I have gone though your reasoning and I find them sound and reasonable but there are however some solutions that can be implented. Some of the most essiential items to allow free movement are only found in the barracks too which is why loot cycling will always occur in that area. For example nightvision goggles.

Seeing as I play mostly at a certain time of the day and that time is always nighttime, I do not like changing gamma settings as feeling it is cheating, and I do not like revealing myself with chemlights and flares. Sure you find plenty of helicopter crash sites and good loot around them. However the zombies around these crashsites, lets say the pilots. I know you can change the gear they drop with, its percentage based like the building loot tables. Why not at least give military zombies a chance of dropping say NVGs, or a gun as well.

This adds to realism Military zombies would normaly have guns strapped to them, or a sidearm.

This promotes movement. Like you said more people moving around the map scavenging and RPing.

This handles loot cycling, players actually have to interact with their environment by killing zombies.

This handles story, items are not randomly respawning, they are being obtained through more legit manner.

They dont have to carry high tier guns, maybe a pistol like a g17 etc.

You can keep the spawn rates as low as the new barracks ones too prevent flooding, but being able NVGs and other items on military zombies would be ideal. Would solve a lot of issues instead of holding players down at locations, I myself do not wish to play in my allocated timeslot without NVGS.

The only thing I do not know is how the already set code would effect zombie behavier. Eg if they will still be able to attack properly with a gun on their back.

I can definitely agree with that, as I suffer the same thing. But it isn't something I can talk about.

You have to realize that we do listen to your guys's suggestions, but we just aren't allowed to discuss anything about future releases.

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