Jump to content

Server time (UTC): 2021-10-19 18:40

Question about hostility


Recommended Posts

  • MVP

After following a discussion in the shout box...

If you are looting a building and someone comes in, you might not want to share your loot with him. So you say "get away from me and out of this building in 5 seconds or I'll blow your head off", friendly as you are. If the other doesn't follow that order, are you allowed to actually blow his head off? And more importantly, is he allowed to ignore the order and shoot you instead?

Link to comment

If you said that the person would be aloud to shoot you, but if he did not comply to your demands you could also shoot him. Its not something you would say to someone if they're aiming at you because most people will just shoot you if you said that.

Link to comment
  • MVP

If you said that the person would be aloud to shoot you, but if he did not comply to your demands you could also shoot him. Its not something you would say to someone if they're aiming at you because most people will just shoot you if you said that.

But that would also be the case in a robbery. You can always fire back, if you think you can make it out alive. I guess who pulls the trigger first wins. I'm just wondering if a scenario like I described can be compared with a robbery. Is the guy making the threat allowed to keep his promise, and is the threatened person allowed to shoot without saying anything. Does the sentence "get the fuck out now or I'll shoot" allow both parties to shoot if the order isn't being followed?

Link to comment
  • MVP

If you give an order to someone else, be prepare. He will have the right to "Not comply" and kill you.

It feels a bit weird, because as the guy receiving the order, you can shoot the other before he shoots you. The guy receiving the order can shoot the other at the moment the other gives the order to get the fuck away, but the guy giving the order can only shoots when the other is not complying. So if you both have your crosshairs pointed at the other, I guess the guy receiving the order will always fun if he's smart enough to pull the trigger.

... right?

Link to comment

If you give an order to someone, "Get away from me and out of this building in 5 seconds or I'll blow your head off", he have 5 seconds to comply or not. If I was you, I would keep an eye on him in case he does not comply your orders. If after 5 seconds the victim does not comply, you have the right to kill him.

In the other p.o.v, if you receive an order for someone, you have 5 seconds to comply or not comply. If you decide the second option, you have the right to flee or shoot the bandit/criminal to defend yourself.

You NEED to give him 5 real seconds, if you don't, it's against the rules. But if the other player is threatening your life, I Think you should have the right to kill him. (I'm not sure).

Link to comment
  • MVP

If you give an order to someone, "Get away from me and out of this building in 5 seconds or I'll blow your head off", he have 5 seconds to comply or not. If I was you, I would keep an eye on him in case he does not comply your orders. If after 5 seconds the victim does not comply, you have the right to kill him.

In the other p.o.v, if you receive an order for someone, you have 5 seconds to comply or not comply. If you decide the second option, you have the right to flee or shoot the bandit/criminal to defend yourself.

Okay, that answers my question. Sounds like something I want to try out.

If you are both aiming at each other, I think the guy being robbed/told what to do has a better chance of killing the other because he can fire right away.

Link to comment

Yeah, the system cannot be perfect. But if someone put you in danger with hostile action, warn him first and if he dosn't comply, simply kill him. Of course if you give an order to somebody "GET OUT, DONT FACE ME" and that person keep looking at you or turn around to aim at you, do not hesitate to open fire on him.

Link to comment
Guest Heinz

In short, if you tell someone to do something they don't want to do ie. getting the fuck out of this house. He then has the right to shoot you and if he doesn't do what you told him to do, you're allowed to shoot him. It also depends alot of the situation, so use your common sense. :)

Link to comment
  • MVP

I came up with two more scenarios that I have questions about:

1. Let's say you do follow his order to "get the fuck out". You walk a few meters and he goes on about his business, looting or masturbating or whatever he was doing in there. Would you be allowed to walk back into the house and shoot him in the back? And how long do you have the right to do that? A minute? An hour? Can I come back after a day and say "hey, you started a hostile action towards me so now I will fuck you up"? I guess the humane thing would be to let him finish his masturbation session before shooting him.

2. Different scenario. You and your friend decide to trick a guy into thinking he is robbing one of you, while instead you are actually robbing him. One of you goes inside a house and does some stupid shit like shooting at chairs and yelling "OMG my expensive NV-goggles are soooo amazing". This attracts the attention of bandits and non-bandits alike. Let's say one guy decides to go into the house and rob you. However, this was your plan. You comply, as was the plan, and as the robbery is in progress your friend comes around the corner, as was the plan. My question is, what is your friend allowed to do in this situation? Shoot the robber? Or can he only tell him to drop his weapon? Basically, was the hostile action that the robber made towards you also made towards your friend, who wasn't visible at the time and of whom the robber had no idea he was there?

I hope my questions are clear. I just want to prevent me and maybe someone else from getting banned for not using the proper protocol.

Link to comment
Guest Heinz

1) Well I'd say, but would be best if you'd be more accurate ie. "get the out of this house you have five seconds starting now". Well atleast not after day nor hour, depends alot of the situation, but I'd say tops ten minutes or so.

2) I'd say that if he was near that place or witnessed the robbery he's allowed to shoot the person who is robbing you.

These are just my opinions, so would be best if a GM/Admin would say what he/she thinks about this.

Link to comment
  • MVP

1) Well I'd say, but would be best if you'd be more accurate ie. "get the out of this house you have five seconds starting now". Well atleast not after day nor hour, depends alot of the situation, but I'd say tops ten minutes or so.

2) I'd say that if he was near that place or witnessed the robbery he's allowed to shoot the person who is robbing you.

These are just my opinions, so would be best if a GM/Admin would say what he/she thinks about this.

Understand that with question 1), it is not about the hostile person telling you how long you have to get the fuck out of the house. It's about you doing what he says and then coming back to shoot him (as revenge).

Link to comment
  • MVP

It feels a bit weird, because as the guy receiving the order, you can shoot the other before he shoots you. The guy receiving the order can shoot the other at the moment the other gives the order to get the fuck away, but the guy giving the order can only shoots when the other is not complying. So if you both have your crosshairs pointed at the other, I guess the guy receiving the order will always fun if he's smart enough to pull the trigger.

... right?

You're exactly right, and it makes face to face confrontation really awkward if you aren't used to the robbery system. Basically, you need to ignore the gun in your face and draw safety from the fact that him shooting you immediately is against the rules (which is counter-intuitive, given in a real life situation the only immediate safety would be if you shot first).

Its an imperfect system, but the best that can be done. You just have to try and remember that in that 1-2 second period when you come face to face with someone, if you don't do anything aggressive you should be safe. At that stage, if they decide to try rob you as you're staring at them, then you can just drop 'em.

Protip: Initiate from behind if you can and make a point of making it clear as soon as you initiate for them NOT to turn around. If you initiate by saying something along the lines of "Don't turn around! This is a robbery! Put your weapon on the ground, move two meters to your right and get on the ground. You have 8 seconds, comply or die!" then there isn't really anyway they can resist successfully. The second they turn more than 90 degrees or so in either direction you just blow them away.

Link to comment

I came up with two more scenarios that I have questions about:

1. Let's say you do follow his order to "get the fuck out". You walk a few meters and he goes on about his business, looting or masturbating or whatever he was doing in there. Would you be allowed to walk back into the house and shoot him in the back? And how long do you have the right to do that? A minute? An hour? Can I come back after a day and say "hey, you started a hostile action towards me so now I will fuck you up"? I guess the humane thing would be to let him finish his masturbation session before shooting him.

2. Different scenario. You and your friend decide to trick a guy into thinking he is robbing one of you, while instead you are actually robbing him. One of you goes inside a house and does some stupid shit like shooting at chairs and yelling "OMG my expensive NV-goggles are soooo amazing". This attracts the attention of bandits and non-bandits alike. Let's say one guy decides to go into the house and rob you. However, this was your plan. You comply, as was the plan, and as the robbery is in progress your friend comes around the corner, as was the plan. My question is, what is your friend allowed to do in this situation? Shoot the robber? Or can he only tell him to drop his weapon? Basically, was the hostile action that the robber made towards you also made towards your friend, who wasn't visible at the time and of whom the robber had no idea he was there?

I hope my questions are clear. I just want to prevent me and maybe someone else from getting banned for not using the proper protocol.

1. Yes, you can go back into the house and shoot him. I'd say you have around the 10 minute mark before you have to re-initiate. But very kind of you to let him finish masturbating :)

2. Yes, you/your friend can shoot the robber. If fact, as long as you are POSITIVE, you can shoot any bandit you see robbing someone. You don't even have to know the guy.

Link to comment
  • MVP

Yes, you can go back into the house and shoot him. I'd say you have around the 10 minute mark before you have to re-initiate. But very kind of you to let him finish masturbating :)

Heck, why not offer your assistance?

Link to comment
  • MVP

Sky, thanks for making it clear that I am not the only one that sees a (tiny) flaw in the system. I actually got robbed yesterday, and because I wasn't paying attention (I was doing something with team speak), I panicked. So I turned around (he didn't really say not to, he just said drop your weapons in 5 seconds and then bagn counting, which didn't really help my nerves) and faced him. I was trying to say something but I forgot to press capslock. All that time, I could've shot him. But I didn't, because I am a pussy.

Meekia, thanks for answering. I'm going to make 2) a bit more complicated. Let's say your friend comes in, and doesn't shoot the robber, but instead tells him to drop his weapon and walk away from you. Can the robber, still having his crosshair on you, just shoot you without warning, even though you are still complying?

I hope it makes sense. I guess a scenario like that will never happen anyway, but I'm curious about what you think.

Link to comment
  • MVP

Yeah, it makes sense.

And no, since he complied with your orders, you aren't allowed to kill him. A lot of people would any way, though, but they might get a ban or something.

It's checkmate then. Awesome. I'm going to try this.


I just realised, if all that happens, it can become sort of an execution. You friend is robbing him and he is robbing you. The robber and you both comply. Now, you can just shoot the robber even though he has already dropped his gun. Your friend can't, because the robber is complying to him, but you can, because the robber made a hostile action towards you. So you can shoot him and there's nothing he can do about it, unless he turns around to shoot your friend, at which point you can both shoot.

I guess I'm thinking too much about this :D

Link to comment

You really are thinking about this to much, to many 'What if's' that could make the outcome so different :)

What if the Bandit was actually part of a clan that is friendly to your clan and you cant shoot him?

What if the victim had the bandits favourate shoes on

99% of the time 'if you have to ask if its ok, it is not'

Link to comment
  • MVP

But following the rules of "if you make a hostile action towards someone, he is allowed to shoot you, and you are allowed to shoot him if he doesn't comply", the scenario I described above must be allowed, right?

Let me summarize it:

The execution

Player A1: you

Player A2: a friend

Player B: an enemy

The plan of A1 and A2 is to trick B into thinking he is robbing you, while actually they are robbing him. This way they can execute B and there's nothing he can do about it. Let me explain how:

A1 is inside a house. A2 is hiding outside it (or in another room). A1 pretends to be stupid and shoots at paintings, yells through the voice chat and runs arounds like a maniac. He is attracting the attention of others, as is the plan. B, who is just passing by, hears A1 and thinks he's an easy victim. He goes inside and tells A1 he needs to drop his weapon. At this point, A2 comes in behind B, as is the plan. A2 tells B to stop robbing A1 and to put his gun down. Now, at this point, two hostile actions have been made. B made a hostile action towards A1, which allows A1 to shoot B at any time he wants. A2 made a hostile action towards B, which allows B to shoot A2 at any time he wants. But B isn't facing A2, so he can't get a clear shot. So he has now two options. Comply to A2, or shoot A2. He can't do anything about A1 because he's still complying. A2 forces B to do nothing, and now A1 can raise his gun and shoot B in the head. At the time A1 raises his gun, B is allowed to shoot him, because he didn't follow his order. BUT, B is still complying to A2, and if he stops that, he can be sure that A2 will shoot him. So he is forced to watch A1 take revenge and shoot him. The execution.

Player B could of course also turn around to shoot A2, but at this point both A1 and A2 can shoot B. A1 already could, and now A2 can too because B isn't complying. This was also the case if B decided to shoot A1 at the time A1 raised his gun, as I described before, but again at that point, both A1 and A2 are allowed to shoot B.

Whatever happens, B is fucked. He's going to die whatever he does. The only thing he can try is to take A1 with him. Turning around to face A2 isn't really an option.

I guess this is a foolproof way to execute someone, but because B has nothing to lose and can just shoot A1, this whole trick brings A1 in jeopardy.

Link to comment
Guest Agald

dude are you looking to get yourself banned i mean some of these are so elaborate everything is going to go wrong and your probably going to be the only death....as thumper said you are looking into this way to much and all these what ifs will probably get you banned. basically just use rule #1, COMMON SENSE. If you actually try these out well the outcome in the report will show you if you used that common sense.

Link to comment
  • MVP

dude are you looking to get yourself banned i mean some of these are so elaborate everything is going to go wrong and your probably going to be the only death....as thumper said you are looking into this way to much and all these what ifs will probably get you banned. basically just use rule #1, COMMON SENSE. If you actually try these out well the outcome in the report will show you if you used that common sense.

I'm not looking to get myself banned at all. To the contrary, I'm trying to avoid getting banned in the future.

I know a scenario like that probably won't happen like I described. I just think it is interesting to discuss, regardless if it is ever going to happen in-game.

Link to comment

If you give an order to someone else, be prepare. He will have the right to "Not comply" and kill you.

what is an order then? "move away", "leave the area", "stay back" are these orders? and if a person is refusing to do what he is told can I kill him?

Link to comment
  • Emerald

If you give an order to someone else, be prepare. He will have the right to "Not comply" and kill you.

what is an order then? "move away", "leave the area", "stay back" are these orders? and if a person is refusing to do what he is told can I kill him?

Well those are orders. But then again I don't think that if you only say "stay back" and nothing else, gives you the right to shoot someone. "Stay back or I will shoot" solves all the problems. But then again if the one who have been told to stay away simply shoots the one giving this order, it doesn't solve anything.

It's all about how you present yourself to the other party. People tend to forget the 3rd rule. Or is everyone playing a character that shoots straight away without trying to reason with anyone when presented danger?

Link to comment
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...