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Server time (UTC): 2021-10-26 12:29

Clans exploiting rules - change needed


Guest Investorinski

Should a 3d party without any connections to either one of the fighting clans be allowed to interfere and shoot at anyone in the fight without making any contact?  

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Guest Investorinski

I'm making this thread because there are clan(s) (a certain clan in particular) who have put into system to always interfere in firefights where they have no initial participation in. Afterwards, if it is discovered, they play the "they did hostile action"-card. Even if they shot at for example S-GRU members AND S.D.S members in the same fight. The question is how it concerns them if two clans are shooting at each other, and they end up shooting at both clans without any contact with any of them? Where is the RP in that?

If they have no part of the fight they should not be allowed to interfere between two clans, especially not when they have not made any contact at all with anyone.

It's a total different thing if they discover that someone is getting robbed or road blocked or similar. But when they join a fight several minutes after the initial hostile action, just to shoot at random clans that are shooting at each other, something is wrong. It's a clear exploit that probably emerges from their own lack of skill of initiating robberies etc.

This way of playing has nothing to do with RP and it should not be accepted. If they do not pick side, they do not know who is who.. they simply just shoot at players that are not in their own group.

Sometimes this clan (Z.C) have had the guts to report either us or S.D.S for KOS-ing without any contact made, because they got killed probably right before they were about to interfere with the fight. Does it make sense that they can be in the area and report us for KOS if they get killed before they are launching their coward tactic?

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Guest Investorinski

I can totally see why this is extremely frustrating. I would still call it taking advantage of a situation and would call it RP.

In what way is it RP? Is it allowed to play police, but end up shooting at both parties without any contact made?

And if they fail, they sometimes have the guts to report us for KOS because we killed them thinking they were our opponents?

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As stated in the other thread, I feel if they have RP reason for such an action then its fair game. But that said, if they're not planning such in a RP manner then yeah, its cheap and unfair, but I don't expect any different from powergaming bandit clans.

Now if the ZC was to start shooting in a firefight between SDS/SGRU and some heroes who happened to be getting robbed, then I wouldn't see the RP sense, as it's just RDM. But if they happened to identify both parties as SDS and SGRU, then the roleplay would be in their two major enemies fighting and them taking advantage of the situation.

Everything can't go your way in the battlefield and even bandits are subject to getting done over by other bandits. It's not like your lot struggle to replace your gear after you've died. You're all probably all DMR'd and Ghillie'd up to fuck at the time of this post, with plenty in reserve, so its not like anyones losing anything major when they die in one of these "bandit wars".

Instead its just become a massive childish pissing contest, with SDS, SGRU and ZC all whining like kids, trying to claim to be the "biggest" "baddest" bandit clan, boasting their kills and such over each other to the point that the original point of this server is obscured by this CoD-kiddie behaviour.

In short, stop flashing your bandit dicks at each other on the forums, we're all sick of it, just get on with the game, roleplay, kill and die and let the rest of us play in peace.

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Guest Investorinski

"But if they happened to identify both parties as SDS and SGRU, then the roleplay would be in their two major enemies fighting and them taking advantage of the situation."

In what way is it roleplaying when you start shooting at two parties that are not making any hostile action towards YOU? How can they possibly indentify the one who made the initial hostile action if they were not present at that time?

For example, S-GRU robs S.D.S and a huge firefight starts. Then Z.(cripple).C joins the fight 10 minutes later and kills a few S.D.S members who only defended themselves from our robbery. How is that legit?

"In short, stop flashing your bandit dicks at each other on the forums, we're all sick of it, just get on with the game, roleplay, kill and die and let the rest of us play in peace."

No one makes you suck our bandit dicks. Stay out of the threads if you do not like to read them.

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In what way is it roleplaying when you start shooting at two parties that are not making any hostile action towards YOU? How can they possibly indentify the one who made the initial hostile action if they were not present at that time?

For example, S-GRU robs S.D.S and a huge firefight starts. Then Z.(cripple).C joins the fight 10 minutes later and kills a few S.D.S members who only defended themselves from our robbery. How is that legit?

Well if I was at "war" with SDS and SGRU and I saw them both fighting, I'd either sit back and let them fuck each other up or join in at the point where both sides are weakened and claim victory. I'd ofcourse only do this if I had identified both parties as SDS and SGRU.

No one makes you suck our bandit dicks. Stay out of the threads if you do not like to read them.

But I, like the rest of the community have to put up with the shoutbox bickering, the numerous threads and forum posts which involve most of you lot trying to out-argue each other over your encounters and kill rates.

This is a roleplay server.

No-one gives a fuck if ZC can't rob properly, of if SDS are cowards, or if Anando can 360 no scope Walshy from 400m away.

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Guest Investorinski

What Murray said..

Ofc its RP if they manage to identify their two major enimies fighting each other and take advantage of the situation.

And if they gets killed by S.D.S or S-GRU for being in the area before they manage to "take advantage" they have rhe right to KOS-report us?


Well if I was at "war" with SDS and SGRU and I saw them both fighting, I'd either sit back and let them fuck each other up or join in at the point where both sides are weakened and claim victory. I'd ofcourse only do this if I had identified both parties as SDS and SGRU.

And when you join in you should be required to make proper contact.

As you cannot identify they one who made the initial hostile action you can't decide who is attacking and who is defending themselves.

But I, like the rest of the community have to put up with the shoutbox bickering, the numerous threads and forum posts which involve most of you lot trying to out-argue each other over your encounters and kill rates.

This is a roleplay server.

No-one gives a fuck if ZC can't rob properly, of if SDS are cowards, or if Anando can 360 no scope Walshy from 400m away.

So you are talking on the behalf of the whole community? Sorry, but bandits are a part of this roleplaying community. It is not my problem that you can't ignore discussions that you don't like.

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And if they gets killed by S.D.S or S-GRU for being in the area before they manage to "take advantage" they have rhe right to KOS-report us?

Ofc not..

If it where me and I ID'd them seeing they try to take up positions I would start fraps and take them out.. And if they report for something like this I seriously hope they get a false report for it (common sense)


Point beeing is; Firefights are dangerous and should not be taken lightly.

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  • MVP

IMO, joining a firefight is a free choice and who does that takes the risk of gaining/loosing everything. But to make it RP proper the joining party should have some sort of contact with either of sides or be sure that the enemies they are engaging are actually the ones who made the hostile actions first. You can't arrive at scene and open fire on everyone.

What Murray said..

Ofc its RP if they manage to identify their two major enimies fighting each other and take advantage of the situation.

And if they gets killed by S.D.S or S-GRU for being in the area before they manage to "take advantage" they have rhe right to KOS-report us?


No, if somebody deliberately joined a firefight he has no rights to make a KoS report.Making a such could lead to a false report punishment. But of course, during firefights the making proper ID is still highly suggested (Which is easier due to skins btw)

Well if I was at "war" with SDS and SGRU and I saw them both fighting, I'd either sit back and let them fuck each other up or join in at the point where both sides are weakened and claim victory. I'd ofcourse only do this if I had identified both parties as SDS and SGRU.

And when you join in you should be required to make proper contact.

As you cannot identify they one who made the initial hostile action you can't decide who is attacking and who is defending themselves.

If you even witness a hostile actions going on, you must ID who is defender who is attacker and 'help' defenders. If you cant do that then you should make a contact.

But I, like the rest of the community have to put up with the shoutbox bickering, the numerous threads and forum posts which involve most of you lot trying to out-argue each other over your encounters and kill rates.

This is a roleplay server.

No-one gives a fuck if ZC can't rob properly, of if SDS are cowards, or if Anando can 360 no scope Walshy from 400m away.

So you are talking on the behalf of the whole community? Sorry, but bandits are a part of this roleplaying community. It is not my problem that you can't ignore discussions that you don't like.

Of course it would be better to see more RP events than banditry bragging, but banditry is also a big part of the game. Without bandits and their bragging :P (I admit, sometimes it's too much on forums/shouttbox) it would be too boring I believe.

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And when you join in you should be required to make proper contact.

As you cannot identify they one who made the initial hostile action you can't decide who is attacking and who is defending themselves.

If you can't identify them, then theres no reason to get involved and as such would be OOC/RDM/Breaking RP.

But as I've said a number of times now, if they DID identify both parties as sworn enemies, then regardless of who is attacking or defending, they've IC reasons to attack. If they die and file KoS reports, then they're being silly and deserve to be banned for false reporting.

So you are talking on the behalf of the whole community? Sorry, but bandits are a part of this roleplaying community. It is not my problem that you can't ignore discussions that you don't like.

I'm not saying banditry should be banned and its a welcome part of this community, but as Goz stated, you and the other two big bandit groups go beyond the roleplay and seem to take IC actions personally, which then become OOC grudges and it spills over for the rest of us to put up with.

I'll make this easier for you to understand, keep your IC grudges IC. If someone robs you in game, in character, don't hate him out of the game and out of character. Respect each other and remember this is just a game.

Y U HEFF TO BE MAD?

its-only-game.gif

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Guest Investorinski

If you can't identify them, then theres no reason to get involved and as such would be OOC/RDM/Breaking RP.

Don't try to slip away Murray. The qeustion is not about identifying the clans. Its about identifying THE ONE CLAN who made the initial hostile action. Returning fire when someone is hostile against you is not a hostile action, its defense. Which means that Z.C can't come and kill the one who is defending themselves. Agree?

Further, I don't think you are about to judge whether or not we are allowed to discuss, brag and "hate" each others on the forums. As I mentioned before, stop reading it if you don't wish to read it. It's as simple as that. As long as we do not call each other idiots, mother fuckers etc I don't see your rage against clan rivalry on the forums.

Lastly, this is a simple suggestion.


IMO, joining a firefight is a free choice and who does that takes the risk of gaining/loosing everything. But to make it RP proper the joining party should have some sort of contact with either of sides or be sure that the enemies they are engaging are actually the ones who made the hostile actions first. You can't arrive at scene and open fire on everyone.

If you even witness a hostile actions going on, you must ID who is defender who is attacker and 'help' defenders. If you cant do that then you should make a contact.

I will print screen this! :) Thanks for clearing this out.

You can now close this thread.

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Don't try to slip away Murray. The qeustion is not about identifying the clans. Its about identifying THE ONE CLAN who made the initial hostile action. Returning fire when someone is hostile against you is not a hostile action, its defense. Which means that Z.C can't come and kill the one who is defending themselves. Agree?

Well in the case of SDS vs SGRU, I'd say both clans are attackers, despite whoever iniated contact with the poorly worded macro. Sure, one clan is defending against a robbery attempt, but since they're a bandit clan themselves, they're just gonna retort with aggression.

So as stated, if the third bandit clan sees two clans shooting the shit out of each other, he'll get involved and it'll make perfect RP sense.

Printscreen that. ;)

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  • MVP

Investorinsky, what I wrote is my personal opinion. Dunno about other GMs and admins view on the matter.

Plus I would like to edit my statement :

If you even witness a hostile actions going on, you must ID who is defender who is attacker and 'help' defenders

From RP perspective, although maybe 'less natural' it should also be possible to help attackers with providing demise to 'defenders'. World doesnt consist of heroes only, some jackals and traitors should be able to play as well :)

So IMO again, I would say that joining a firefight is a free choice - your call to either gain or loose . But if you join firefight you should join with clear intention of helping one of the sides,some kind of contact-exchange of information with side you are helping would be ideall.

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Guest Investorinski

Well in the case of SDS vs SGRU, I'd say both clans are attackers, despite whoever iniated contact with the poorly worded macro. Sure, one clan is defending against a robbery attempt, but since they're a bandit clan themselves, they're just gonna retort with aggression.

Well, with above paragraph you disqualify your own opinons, since you clearly do not understand that role playing a bandit is as legit as role playing a survivor that enjoy collecting morphine.

What you think of bandits is highly irrelevant.

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I don't think this should be allowed.

Direct quote from the rules: You have to make contact before initiating a hostile action. Contact is made when the player has responded to or otherwise acknowledged your message. You must make your intent of hostile action clear to your victim(s). If player is compliant, do not kill them. Treat the players fair in-game like you wanted to be treated in a RP environment.

By that logic, you can't do this.

AKA, ZC broke the rules by opening fire upon two warring parties, without contact.

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Guest Investorinski

So IMO again, I would say that joining a firefight is a free choice - your call to either gain or loose . But if you join firefight you should join with clear intention of helping one of the sides,some kind of contact-exchange of information with side you are helping would be ideall.

This is what I want clear. I.e, the question if they really are allowed to join the fight without any contact at all, and attack both sides. But apparently not? If I understand YOUR opinion correct?

It's only your opinon, yes. But you are a part of the deciding staff, and IMO we can at least file a report and refer to your statement if a incident like the one explained will occur in the future.

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Well in the case of SDS vs SGRU, I'd say both clans are attackers, despite whoever iniated contact with the poorly worded macro. Sure, one clan is defending against a robbery attempt, but since they're a bandit clan themselves, they're just gonna retort with aggression.

Well, with above paragraph you disqualify your own opinons, since you clearly do not understand that role playing a bandit is as legit as role playing a survivor that enjoy collecting morphine.

What you think of bandits is highly irrelevant.

I fail to see where I have stated that banditry is not a legit playstyle. I'm just saying that banditry has to come with consequences, one being that you pretty much become fair game for other bandits and aggressive acts against yourself.

If my bandit group see two rival bandit groups fighting, we will swoop in when they're at their weakest and take advantage of the situation. Given ofcourse, that we have identified both parties. With regards to defense, contact and attackers, I believe as soon as one party engages, it becomes fair game to attack them, given they've been correctly identified as a hostile target and there is significant roleplay reasons to do so.

Remember, roleplay comes first here.

Although I can imagine that may be hard to grasp for some players here...

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Guest Investorinski

Murray, then you fail to understand the context of what your are writing, and your attitude towards bandits.

I have nothing more to say to a bandit hater like you. More than we are going to find out a really good RP reason to kill you every time we see you in game. And believe me, our creativity is enormous.

"Role play comes first" :)

Btw, it's not a threat, it's a fact.

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Murray, then you fail to understand the context of what your are writing, and your attitude towards bandits.

I have nothing more to say to a bandit hater like you. More than we are going to find out a really good RP reason to kill you every time we see you in game. And believe me, our creativity is enormous.

"Role play comes first" :)

Btw, it's not a threat, it's a fact.

Blimey, this poorly hidden threat is almost laughable.

I'm no bandit hater, I've performed robberies in my time, but I tend to spice them up or have specific reasons behind them, rather than the simple "give me your guns because i said so" lark.

As for the OOC threat to "creatively" kill me in game, in character, despite never having met me in game and as such, not having sufficient roleplay background to do so, shows your utter lack of grasp of the concept of roleplaying and the line between IC and OOC actions.

Again... Not that I'd expect any different from a player of your background...

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Guest Investorinski

Go a head and laugh Murray, we will sure do it!

I also hope that you are as cocky in TS as you are on the forums. But as every one else of the trolls out there, I guess you won't. The fact that you have not met us in game says more about you than it does about us. You write too much. Try play some!

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  • Emerald

Murray it may not have been the best idea for you to reply to a thread that mainly concerns bandit groups, given your strong OOC views on all bandit groups. It is clear that you believe that by default someone who roleplays a bandit is a "CoD Kid" and I am deeply sympathetic that you have to "put up" with arguments over which bandits are 'badder'.

I'm sorry but you can't separate yourself and look down upon someone who chooses IC to play the bad guy.

Their RP is as valid as someone who likes selling Epi-pens.

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Guest Investorinski

Investorinski, you're completely and utterly missing the point Murray tries to show you.

Well, Goz have already given his point, which matters. What Murray further tries to troll about is really of no concern for me.

Him saying "but I tend to spice hostile actions up or have specific reasons behind them" while he at the same time supports 3d party's no-RP-killing-sprees is just his way of continuing trolling. Murray have stated what he thinks of bandits and "CoD-kids".. the rest he is fuzzying about is just a big joke.

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Go a head and laugh Murray, we will sure do it!

I also hope that you are as cocky in TS as you are on the forums. But as every one else of the trolls out there, I guess you won't. The fact that you have not met us in game says more about you than it does about us. You write too much. Try play some!

We're getting off topic here, but sure, if you want to continue this banter on teamspeak, just ask some of your clan mates who know me on TS, don't expect me to be all quiet and scared of some teenage neckbeards. ;)


Murray it may not have been the best idea for you to reply to a thread that mainly concerns bandit groups, given your strong OOC views on all bandit groups. It is clear that you believe that by default someone who roleplays a bandit is a "CoD Kid" and I am deeply sympathetic that you have to "put up" with arguments over which bandits are 'badder'.

I'm sorry but you can't separate yourself and look down upon someone who chooses IC to play the bad guy.

Their RP is as valid as someone who likes selling Epi-pens.

Firstly thanks for a more mature and well worded reply, but again you're misreading me completely. I don't view banditry as poor RP, nor do I think all bandits are poor players. I loved your guys gulag stuff and you're easily in my opinion, the better roleplayers of the major bandit groups. Its just the bragging out of character that gets on my tits, not just by your lot, but by others also.

Any RP that's sensible is valid RP.

As for inventorinski, again, not reading my posts and missing my point entirely. I'm not supporting 3rd party killing sprees. I'm supporting dynamic combat backed up by valid roleplay. Things can't always go to plan and you can't always have it your way.

I'd suggest you read my posts before making yourself sound like a silly boy more often mate.

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