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Server time (UTC): 2021-10-18 07:17

Fatcamp and nykke 02-22


Fatcamp

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So here iam again doing a ban appeal. I have been looking through the rules over and over again. I knew this was going to happend beacuse less rules = more confusion. But here why i dont think we should get banend for it.

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-kos-macro-kill-outside-nw-airfield

First of there is nowere in the rules were it is saying that i cant use a macr to send a text. If its hidden and you wer allowed todo it before its stupid. Why do you give such a harsh punishment to Nykke for sending a macro text? AS a perm ban? When there isnt stating anything liek that in the rules? The rules became less clear which will cause alot of problem from the start. Which is why i think this is way over the line what he should get.

Later for me. THe first rule is saying use common sense. I did, if someone would drive into me in real life and wouldt stop and its an zombie apocolyps world i would kill him. First he almost disables my vehicle, he almost give me injurys so i cant move like breaking my legs. This is a very hostile thing. Later would it have been better if he died by the broken vehicle he had? I never hit the hood of the car or anything and it blew up right after. This means that he would have died by the explosion instead. Which would tell me i would have gotten banned for RDM right?

I knew this was going to happend with the new rules. I have always kept myself inside the rules. Never broken them without my knowledge of it. I have always asked people if im allowed todo this and everytime i gotten banned i have actually gotten an yes that iam allowed to. I dont know if its that im really unlucky or something. But i seriously how you will look over this and give us something els. Beacuse the rules are new. I tryed using common sense which made everything go to shit. Im still seriously confused over the hole new rules thing. Beacuse there is so many holes that i dont know how they work, how they should work or anything. I tryed using what i though was right which it wasnt. I dont know what other people think is right or not, which is why i hope you take a look over these 2 and come to a better punishment. Beacuse a perm ban for Nykke for a macro were it doesnt state it in the rules at all. For me, doesnt feel justified at all, you shouldt be able to get perm ban when you are trying to follow the rules, trying to make the robberys as clear as possible, the perm bans should only be there for people who is really shitting on the rules and cheaters. I tryed using common sense just like you guys wanted to. But it seemed like my common sense wasnt as common as for other people have..

Edit: Nykke wanted to add that we always follow up with voice.

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Guest Disrespectful Flamingo

Pretty funny how the GM first goes: "After watching the video it is evident you knew of the intention of the bandits. The video also shows you trying to server and trying to reverse. You did not comply."

Then he goes talk with another GM and completely changes his mind.

Could you tell us who it was you talked too? I sense massive bias over here.

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  • Server Manager

AFAIK you were banned for not roleplaying and then a KoS. The rules are very simple and easy to follow, don't try blame your mistakes on the new rules. Permban for Nykke was a result of 100% warning level, not the punishment because of the report.

But sure, let's hear it from others as well.

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Guest Disrespectful Flamingo

How does a macro message = not roleplaying?

If anything macro = make sure they don't get out of range while typing.

We always voice chat roleplay after or before doing the macro because voice isn't recorded by logs.

Actually macro texts in robberies are the only things that help robbers in reports because they do get logged. Well I guess not anymore.

Rob with voice only = banned.

Rob with text macro = banned.

What do.

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  • MVP

In the video you use no voice communication to him.

You can clearly hear Crasher say "Oh God" as you move in front of him to block him in. You broke one of his wheels and he was immobilized. He was not going anywhere.

You also hear "Why are you shooting?", this indicates he would have complied to your robbery. As far as this looks, you only put up a macro and then proceeded to kill him after he had been stopped.

You guys did a great job of stopping him, I admit that but you then decided to kill him. This gives me the impression that all you wanted to do was kill him anyway and were looking for an excuse to open fire on him.

You then opened fire on him without trying to communicate with him a second time.

Edit: sorry edited it a bit to try and clarify what I meant.

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AFAIK you were banned for not roleplaying and then a KoS. The rules are very simple and easy to follow, don't try blame your mistakes on the new rules. Permban for Nykke a result of 100% warning level, not the punishment for the report.

But sure, let's hear it from others as well.

The rules are maybe simple to remember. But they leave so much of your own decision. Every person think on thier own special way which makes this rules very edgy. I have always tryed to keep myself inside the rules. But how come i get banned for something when im trying to keep myself inside the rules?

Another thing Jij wrote this

After watching the video it is evident you knew of the intention of the bandits. The video also shows you trying to server and trying to reverse. You did not comply.

Afterwrds he writes this

The victim complied he never even got out of the car til he was dead

How come he writes first he didt comply. Later he writes he did complY? How does this makes any sense?

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Guest Disrespectful Flamingo

Did I mention fatcamp? NO.

SumoS, Nykke got perma banned for reaching 100% for using a text paste (aka macro from some reason).

EVERY single one of the robberies I've seen (done or suffered) were done with "macro" text because it's the only viable way of doing it.

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In the video you use no voice communication to him.

You can clearly hear Crasher say "Oh God" as he you move in front of him to block him in. You broke one of his wheels and he was immobilized. He was not going anywhere.

You then opened fire on him without trying to communicate with him again.

The guy who said "oh god" was dotix that was with me. Later i never saw the left wheel being gone. I saw the right wheel still being there. Almost all the time when you crash like that both wheels goes or none goes. Which is why i though both wheels was still intact.

I started to shoot after i hard the engine and saw the vehicle going backwards. I have just very fast reaction so you might think its just an coincidence

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  • MVP

Even if he did not say "Oh God", why does it matter?

The fact is that all you did was spam the message after immobilizing his car and then open fire when he could not have escaped anyway.

At no point do you use voice to try and communicate to him after you stopped him.

Did I mention fatcamp? NO.

SumoS, Nykke got perma banned for reaching 100% for using a text paste (aka macro from some reason).

EVERY single one of the robberies I've seen (done or suffered) were done with "macro" text because it's the only viable way of doing it.

So? This time there was no voice and it is a questionable time frame between the message and his death. The video shows that they effectively immobilized the car and killed the chap before he could rightly even try to comply. He might still have been holding down his movement keys for all you know, that is why the car moved.

Nykke should have been more careful or not taken part , or you guys should start giving people a second warning to prevent these things.

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Guest Disrespectful Flamingo

Holding W definetly makes you go back. Wait....

If any CLF ever robs me and I turn to kill them expect a report if they shoot me. "It all happened to quickly and I obviously had no intent on running or killing my robber" I'll say.

It's so easy to exploit the rules to get people banned that I'm surprised more people don't do it.

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  • MVP

I don't understand how a car with a front left blown out tire was going to "Run me over"

Heres the breake down.

Macro paste is not RP [First Rule Violation]

You gave them five seconds to stop and not get outa the car. [i'll give you the car moved, but you had given no were near 5 seconds, you got out and started shooting, no RP not intention of doing anything there, you got out and shot up the car Second Rule violation]

They guise clearly didn't know what was going on, so even if it was on the old rules, which its not, instead we are on the new rules were common sense is key. Common sense says that disabled car was of no threat, those people couldn't hurt you and you emptyed tons of ammo into that car.

The lack of RP, failure to give time to figure out what was going on and the sheer obviousness that the entire event was a way of using the rules to get kills is obvious. Hence the day bans. Those day bans resulted in a 100% warning which turns into a Perma ban.

I see a completely fair ruling here.

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  • MVP

Holding W definetly makes you go back. Wait....

If any CLF ever robs me and I turn to kill them expect a report if they shoot me. "It all happened to quickly and I obviously had no intent on running or killing my robber" I'll say.

Lets not get bitter mate. We are stating facts here that we can see from the point of view.

You guys have been punished in the recent reports down to your actions. Not ours. We even let you off on a few as we understood the situation and could empathize with you. So stop making us out to be the bad guys.

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Even if he did not say "Oh God", why does it matter?

The fact is that all you did was spam the message after immobilizing his car and then open fire when he could not have escaped anyway.

At no point do you use voice to try and communicate to him after you stopped him.

Did I mention fatcamp? NO.

SumoS, Nykke got perma banned for reaching 100% for using a text paste (aka macro from some reason).

EVERY single one of the robberies I've seen (done or suffered) were done with "macro" text because it's the only viable way of doing it.

So? This time there was no voice and it is a questionable time frame between the message and his death. The video shows that they effectively immobilized the car and killed the chap before he could rightly even try to comply. He might still have been holding down his movement keys for all you know, that is why the car moved.

Nykke should have been more careful or not taken part , or you guys should start giving people a second warning to prevent these things.

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-do-not-post-in-ban-appeals-you-re-not-involved-in?pid=32214#pid32214

Read that one. I want to see this person getting the punishement for breaking the rule.

I don't understand how a car with a front left blown out tire was going to "Run me over"

Heres the breake down.

Macro paste is not RP [First Rule Violation]

You gave them five seconds to stop and not get outa the car. [i'll give you the car moved, but you had given no were near 5 seconds, you got out and started shooting, no RP not intention of doing anything there, you got out and shot up the car Second Rule violation]

They guise clearly didn't know what was going on, so even if it was on the old rules, which its not, instead we are on the new rules were common sense is key. Common sense says that disabled car was of no threat, those people couldn't hurt you and you emptyed tons of ammo into that car.

The lack of RP, failure to give time to figure out what was going on and the sheer obviousness that the entire event was a way of using the rules to get kills is obvious. Hence the day bans. Those day bans resulted in a 100% warning which turns into a Perma ban.

I see a completely fair ruling here.

OK did yo ueven read my text i wrote? I guess not? Beacuse i wrote that i didt see the left wheel being broken. I saw the right one being intact. I saw him starting to back off., i shoot. I tryed to shoot common sense. i used what i would do in a zombie apocolypse world. I would have shot in before he had any more chance to putt me into danger.

May i ask another thing. The car was so broken down it blew up that you can see abit into the video. Would i get punished for that to? Beacuse the car blew up?

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  • MVP

Even if he did not say "Oh God", why does it matter?

The fact is that all you did was spam the message after immobilizing his car and then open fire when he could not have escaped anyway.

At no point do you use voice to try and communicate to him after you stopped him.

Did I mention fatcamp? NO.

SumoS, Nykke got perma banned for reaching 100% for using a text paste (aka macro from some reason).

EVERY single one of the robberies I've seen (done or suffered) were done with "macro" text because it's the only viable way of doing it.

So? This time there was no voice and it is a questionable time frame between the message and his death. The video shows that they effectively immobilized the car and killed the chap before he could rightly even try to comply. He might still have been holding down his movement keys for all you know, that is why the car moved.

Nykke should have been more careful or not taken part , or you guys should start giving people a second warning to prevent these things.

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-do-not-post-in-ban-appeals-you-re-not-involved-in?pid=32214#pid32214

Read that one. I want to see this person getting the punishement for breaking the rule.

I don't understand how a car with a front left blown out tire was going to "Run me over"

Heres the breake down.

Macro paste is not RP [First Rule Violation]

You gave them five seconds to stop and not get outa the car. [i'll give you the car moved, but you had given no were near 5 seconds, you got out and started shooting, no RP not intention of doing anything there, you got out and shot up the car Second Rule violation]

They guise clearly didn't know what was going on, so even if it was on the old rules, which its not, instead we are on the new rules were common sense is key. Common sense says that disabled car was of no threat, those people couldn't hurt you and you emptyed tons of ammo into that car.

The lack of RP, failure to give time to figure out what was going on and the sheer obviousness that the entire event was a way of using the rules to get kills is obvious. Hence the day bans. Those day bans resulted in a 100% warning which turns into a Perma ban.

I see a completely fair ruling here.

OK did yo ueven read my text i wrote? I guess not? Beacuse i wrote that i didt see the left wheel being broken. I saw the right one being intact. I saw him starting to back off., i shoot. I tryed to shoot common sense. i used what i would do in a zombie apocolypse world. I would have shot in before he had any more chance to putt me into danger.

May i ask another thing. The car was so broken down it blew up that you can see abit into the video. Would i get punished for that to? Beacuse the car blew up?

I did see the text you wrote, doesn't change my detailed explanation.

As for the car blowing up.. You shot it up, the car my have been damaged before but it wasn't until it crashed into the side of your SUV and got shot up like you were making swiss chezze was probly a good cause for it to blow up.

And there were at least three of you there, you mean to tell me not one of you saw the broken wheel? i saw it in the video. and even if you didn't, the car was backing up, it was not traveling fast in any manner and you were with in distance to get out of the way. They wern't gonna get away. Instead your group chose to unload on the car.

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  • MVP

Even if he did not say "Oh God", why does it matter?

The fact is that all you did was spam the message after immobilizing his car and then open fire when he could not have escaped anyway.

At no point do you use voice to try and communicate to him after you stopped him.

Did I mention fatcamp? NO.

SumoS, Nykke got perma banned for reaching 100% for using a text paste (aka macro from some reason).

EVERY single one of the robberies I've seen (done or suffered) were done with "macro" text because it's the only viable way of doing it.

So? This time there was no voice and it is a questionable time frame between the message and his death. The video shows that they effectively immobilized the car and killed the chap before he could rightly even try to comply. He might still have been holding down his movement keys for all you know, that is why the car moved.

Nykke should have been more careful or not taken part , or you guys should start giving people a second warning to prevent these things.

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-do-not-post-in-ban-appeals-you-re-not-involved-in?pid=32214#pid32214

Read that one. I want to see this person getting the punishement for breaking the rule.

Ok Fatcamp, I will leave this report but in my defense Crasher is in Canada/ USA so he would not be able to participate in this until much later on, when this would have been dealt with without any say from him.

If Fatcamp's wish to have me punished is valid then I would expect Flamingo to receive a similar punishment as me.

Hawky thanks for your input but we can start a discussion or a thread so we can help them to establish how they can improve their robbery techniques. We don't need it in this appeal.

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  • Emerald

I would consider a text message for example: "Hey you!" before going over to voice to prove that you have made contact in the first place. The rest should be over voice. Also in the video you clearly see that the wheel gets blown out on impact and you jumping out and shooting the guy without him breaking any of your macro message rules. Clearly a KOS in my opinion....

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Guest Disrespectful Flamingo

No, you're wrong. Fatcamp decided to shoot at the car and he didn't know about the wheel.

What you hear in taht video is teamspeak, do you hear anyobody talking about the wheel?

Then how was fatcamp supposed to know? Also 1 of the people in the car was AFK, the guy that yelled "Oh god" and the other guy was the one busy with writing a message for the robbery.

So yeah, there was no way for fatcamp to know the car wasn't operational as even in the video you can see everything happened pretty quickly. It's like watching a game as saying "shit why didn't that player do that?". Because guess what, in-game and watching is a completely different situation.


I would consider a text message for example: "Hey you!" before going over to voice to prove that you have made contact in the first place. rest should be over voice. Also in the video you clearly see that the wheel gets blow out and you jumping out and shooting the guy. Clearly a KOS in my opinion....

"Hey you!"....

Oh, he kept driving.. god damn it, nobody ever stops with this message. Good job.

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  • Emerald

No, you're wrong. Fatcamp decided to shoot at the car and he didn't know about the wheel.

What you hear in taht video is teamspeak, do you hear anyobody talking about the wheel?

Then how was fatcamp supposed to know? Also 1 of the people in the car was AFK, the guy that yelled "Oh god" and the other guy was the one busy with writing a message for the robbery.

So yeah, there was no way for fatcamp to know the car wasn't operational as even in the video you can see everything happened pretty quickly. It's like watching a game as saying "shit why didn't that player do that?". Because guess what, in-game and watching is a completely different situation.


I would consider a text message for example: "Hey you!" before going over to voice to prove that you have made contact in the first place. rest should be over voice. Also in the video you clearly see that the wheel gets blow out and you jumping out and shooting the guy. Clearly a KOS in my opinion....

"Hey you!"....

Oh, he kept driving.. god damn it, nobody ever stops with this message. Good job.

... "before going over to voice"...

Sorry! Forgot that you cant post in these treads without being involved! Will not happen again!

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Guest Disrespectful Flamingo

... "before going over to voice"...

Which can hardly be heard inside a moving vehicle not to mention voice isn't logged = easy report.

And we are back to the whole "Let's make it easier for bandits to get banned"

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May i also add that the guy saying "why are you shooting?" is Dotix, one of us...not the robbed person.

I agree he should not have been shot, but the macro thing is a funny spot...if you dont use that text you will have people report you anyway because "they didnt hear you"...and when you use text its not RP??

a message between players is always a discussion between characters isnt it? text or not.

Sure the text could have said "Stop the car immediately!" and then you could have used voice from there but to be fair there wasnt really any time to use voice before fatcamp light the car up...

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  • MVP

I'll try to explain macro thing, apparently it is the source of confussion when it is quite easy to comprehend when you read and understand the rules.

We have 'new' rules :

1. Common sense, 3. Stay in character

Nowhere direct chat messages or macros per say are 'forbidden','frown upon'.

Direct chat messages are almost same way of communicating like voice, sometimes neccesery as voice can be faulty or not appropriate way of communicating in certain scenario,also it's impossible to force direct chat ban and they are often usefull in reports - hence direct chat and macros are allowed.

Trick is : Direct chat messages and Macros Must Indicate Being In Character.

Plus, each direct message must be followed with Voice. Voice is the main tool of communicating and RP'ing.Using copy&paste macro as only way of communication will be punished.

You no longer can copy&paste a universal robbing message covering up instructions for both survivor on foot and vehicle - its not RP or not 'common sense'. Think of direct chat message exactly as you would say/yell via voice in scenario you take part.

By 'Scenario' I mean :

- Message must be appropriate (keeping in mind the Person you RolePlay)

- Circumstances ( to whom you are directing the message,what do you want etc)

Bad message :

" ROBBERY: u have 5 seconds to stop, drop your weapons & backpack! Do NOT look around! VEHICLE = stay INSIDE!"

"Robbery:" - why would someone yell 'robbery:' in robbery? "Vehicle =stay inside" - what does it mean and how are you supposed to yell that ?

Fine messages (that will be used by my clan for example) :

"Citizen! DONT MOVE OR FACE US! Your goods are being liberated from you by the CLF! DROP your WEAPONS and BACKPACK, NOW"

"CUT THE ENGINE and STAY INSIDE. We seize this vehicle for Liberation Front"

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  • MVP

I agree 100% Goz.

It just seems hard with a fullblood banstrike wich result in a permban, for using a bad robberytext.

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ban as a result of posting a wrong message is pretty meh imho, 50% of the server still macrobandits as initiation half the time.

also nykke only posted the message, right after that we were panicing to get out the car since we got rammed. and after we got out the dude was dead.

Not much time to voice rp there imho.

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  • Server Manager

Nykke's ban removed, character reset for playing OOC and using OOC macros. Fatcamps ban stays as he made no effort to roleplay and killed a player because of it.

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