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Grihm

Regulations and requirements to claiming areas.

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Grihm    16

So with SA and all it´s glory, we still have to consider that even with a fresh start and new lore, people will eventually consider the idea of claiming a house or two. That is fine, and it´s fine even up to a small fishingvillage. Then however, you need to step up the demands if you want to claim bigger areas.

Example.

The group ” Third brothers of the second frost ” ™ is willing to expand a bit from just sitting around the ruined and leaking old gasstation, so they move a few clicks away to the old lumbermill. There, they build them selfs up and arm up quite a stockade. After a few month´s, they need to expand again.

In the old system =

The group see to the west and finds a city about the size of Electro, and the 15 people in the group now claims it and moves in. All is well since they where first come first served, so none lived here. If others want to get rid of them, they will need to claim ownership and thus it will either go in peace, or a fight is on the horizon.

The new system =

The group see to the west and finds a city about the size of Electro, and the 15 people in the group then looks around if there are anyone there in their way or if they are free to move in. As soon as they have set up a living quarter and been there a few days, rumors starts to circle, and eventually they are payed a visit.

The Faction of ( Insert Staff controlled faction )comes in their veichles and armed to the teeth. Their commander calls for the gruops leadre to approach, and a meeting takes place.

In this example the Commander decides that every two weeks, they will return and at that return, a tax will be collected. If failed to be payed, there will be consequences. If payed in time, the group are allowed at least 2 more weeks of safe stay.

Basically all cities, villages of a certain size, military bases etc is already claimed and owned, and if you want to live there, you pay taxes to those higher up on the foodchain.

If you have even a big group as 20 players active on the server, you still cannot claim a huge site as a city, because you don´t have the manpower to run it.

But my clan/faction is bigger than the player amount. It´s npc´s and others not seen in actual gameplay.

Well that´s the same if you flip it. Even if you have 50 people, the city will have perhaps 500 or so. You are not outnumbering a town.

All claims to areas of a certain size are made on the forums, and staff decides when and where the IC meeting will take place. At that time, staff plays a faction related in the same area as the area to be claimed is and ingame a contract is made.

This is to ensure

* All groups both new and those that arrive later on have the same demands on them if they want an area of their own.

* All groups have those above them to pay taxes to. This ensures fair rp and that no one group is being excluded.

* No group is forever chained to an area or own it just because they ”took it on the first day”

* All group have to put in an even amount of work depending on the size of the group.

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Burgz    6

'Staff factions' and basically them being powergamed onto the community.

Nope. Sorry.

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Dougie    23

No. This is too organized and so unorganic. People have been enjoying SA a lot more recently partly because of how organic the game feels... If they wanna claim a house they can claim it and don't have to worry about declaring it on the forums. This feels way too OOC and takes away the spontaneous meetings in game. The fact that you have to setup a meeting with a staff faction is so boring, and this doesn't look like very much fun and isn't really the whole fun, random RP that I want and I can assume others would agree. This is a new game and it's a lot more realistic/survivory so I don't think people should be limited as to what they can do In game based off of numbers and forum declarations.

-1

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Grihm    16

'Staff factions' and basically them being powergamed onto the community.

Nope. Sorry.

They are there for the inital contract being made, then the taxes can be dealt with on any other easy way. Also, staff would have the better insight into your faction, what you are about and make a neutral contract towards you rather than having players making the deal and risking ooc being involved.


No. This is too organized and so unorganic. People have been enjoying SA a lot more recently partly because of how organic the game feels... If they wanna claim a house they can claim it and don't have to worry about declaring it on the forums. This feels way too OOC and takes away the spontaneous meetings in game. The fact that you have to setup a meeting with a staff faction is so boring, and this doesn't look like very much fun and isn't really the whole fun, random RP that I want and I can assume others would agree. This is a new game and it's a lot more realistic/survivory so I don't think people should be limited as to what they can do In game based off of numbers and forum declarations.

-1

Please read again if you would. This is about claiming bigger areas than even a fishingvillage. I am talking about a city or an entire base.

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Dougie    23

Please read again if you would. This is about claiming bigger areas than even a fishingvillage. I am talking about a city or an entire base.

I read the whole thing, I was using that as an example, sorry if it came off like I didn't read it... Doesn't matter how big the space is, it doesn't really make much sense and going back to the main point of my post, feels very inorganic.

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SomeWeirdAssGuy    287

I don't see this happening and I don't see it as necessary either. All claims to territory and/or domicile should be acted in-game and funneled into RP interactions. The staff doesn't need more work than it already has, especially since this seems more like a chore than anything else.

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Guest   
Guest

I like the system we use now as it makes sense, you see a place and you take it and just live there. Done and done. If an enemy groups wishes to fight for your land, take the fight back to them or leave. A ton of RP comes from this in general as you have to take conscious decisions as a group, or the leader of said group will make the tough decision.

The new system seems way to unnecessary and just time consuming on both sides. What use would a military have to tax survivors anyways?

And as seen in Burgz comment, the whole powergaming and metagaming issue. Really don't want that.

You should also know that there will most likely be no "mega military force" staff faction in SA.

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Grihm    16

So if a group claims Novo for example and they are let´s say 15 players strong. That´s ok? There should be a limit at least because how can 15 people run that big city?

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Guest   
Guest

So if a group claims Novo for example and they are let´s say 15 players strong. That´s ok? There should be a limit at least because how can 15 people run that big city?

I don't see the problem with that, actually. I think it's just fine. Another group, with the right numbers, can always take the fight to the group and take it themselves, or just promptly ask them to leave IC.

There shouldn't be a limit at all, why should there be? Imagine a city of people banding together in the apocalypse trying to sort of 'rebuild' civilization, or trying to at least uphold what is left by recruiting other civilians. Or, a darker approach, bandits taking over the city and therfor becoming a hostile zone, so other players can band together and try to take down the menace for themselves. This itself leads to quite an interesting story line, and some amazing RP could come out of it if done right.

edit

Also you surely can't believe only 15 people can control a city by themselves? Maybe a section of the city, maybe the characters might say they own it, but that's what they think IC. It's not like it's official or set in stone or anything.

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Grihm    16

So if a group claims Novo for example and they are let´s say 15 players strong. That´s ok? There should be a limit at least because how can 15 people run that big city?

I don't see the problem with that, actually. I think it's just fine. Another group, with the right numbers, can always take the fight to the group and take it themselves, or just promptly ask them to leave IC.

There shouldn't be a limit at all, why should there be? Imagine a city of people banding together in the apocalypse trying to sort of 'rebuild' civilization, or trying to at least uphold what is left by recruiting other civilians. Or, a darker approach, bandits taking over the city and therfor becoming a hostile zone, so other players can band together and try to take down the menace for themselves. This itself leads to quite an interesting story line, and some amazing RP could come out of it if done right.

edit

Also you surely can't believe only 15 people can control a city by themselves? Maybe a section of the city, maybe the characters might say they own it, but that's what they think IC. It's not like it's official or set in stone or anything.

As long as no group of 5 people or so comes up to me a few days after i got some water or food from a huge town, and then they are to kidnap me and torture me or rob me blind becuse of their beloved "tax claim" since i was in "their city" then sure. However, i fear that on day one people will take enourmus areas, and then as soon as you poke your nose in it, it´s fight fight fight. Reason then being they claim it on day one and now it´s their domain etc and so on.

It happens in the mod so that´s why i hope it wont be the same in SA. Also, if there are regulations towards hostility towards other players, then that will ease up the situation as well since you cannot just do your buisness and then hide in "your" town.

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SomeWeirdAssGuy    287

So if a group claims Novo for example and they are let´s say 15 players strong. That´s ok? There should be a limit at least because how can 15 people run that big city?

It's impossible to control the whole city of Novo with 15, and would be even with 40. We couldn't even hold just the tower itself with 5+ players.

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Grihm    16

So if a group claims Novo for example and they are let´s say 15 players strong. That´s ok? There should be a limit at least because how can 15 people run that big city?

It's impossible to control the whole city of Novo with 15, and would be even with 40. We couldn't even hold just the tower itself with 5+ players.

Exactly, and i dont think people can claim that their clan or friends that dont exist in the game controlls it for you or such. Take over what you like, as long as it makes sense. One loonytoon in cherno shouting that he owns it and then initiates on people thinking he has the right to do it since he "claimed the city" can do more harm than good in no time at all. Might even end up in kos´s and what not.

Got to be some limit at least.

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Guest

As long as no group of 5 people or so comes up to me a few days after i got some water or food from a huge town, and then they are to kidnap me and torture me or rob me blind because of their beloved "tax claim" since i was in "their city" then sure.

If you truly don't like it, then make a report for BadRP or discuss it with the bandits that had robbed you for the so called 'tax claim'. Even then, a tax could make sense in such in such an environment, you are stepping on to someones 'land', or so they believe. Perhaps they needs this "tax" to fuel there economy/ feed there people.

However, i fear that on day one people will take enormous areas, and then as soon as you poke your nose in it, it´s fight fight fight. Reason then being they claim it on day one and now it´s their domain etc and so on.

And what's so wrong with a territorial war? Surely in a place like this where people will struggle to survive, people will try to fight for there land that they 'claimed' for whatever benefit said land holds.

It happens in the mod so that´s why i hope it wont be the same in SA. Also, if there are regulations towards hostility towards other players, then that will ease up the situation as well since you cannot just do your business and then hide in "your" town.

With the system we use now, the people that hide away in the town that they so called 'claimed' can not truly hide. Retreat? Yes, it would make sense for someone to retreat back to there territory or return to there camp after whatever they were doing. It's there camp after all, and no camp is safe. It's safer, with your fellow survivors willing to lend back up in hard times.

It would only be a problem say if player B robbed player A, then player B afterwards run to his city and just logs off. That's when it would be a problem, as it would kind of be considered combat logging if player A had pursued player B actively.


The point really comes down to this. Players can say they own a place, but do they really truly own it? No, it's something the devs for SA made. This is almost what they wanted to happen. If some random staff faction with cool powers were to suddenly show up after you locked a door with your stuff in it to tax you, then what good will come out of that? Let the people fight for there land, not pay for it. It just makes more sense this way IC, and it's less hassle on both the player side and the staff team side.

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Grihm    16

I atleast hope this can be considered when creating the rules or tweaking the rules for the SA. That´s all i can ask for really.

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   2

I do not think any sort of tax system will go well or is require. You will likely find, like in Mod, groups will eventually try 'tax' people anyway.

I feel people/groups should be free to claim houses if they want, when it comes to defending it or anything like that, well that is their risk they took when claiming it to begin with.

And one loonytoon trying to claim a town or anything and initiates on everyone cannot hope to last very long.

The way I see it, plenty claimed places (non settlements) in mod without needing any special rules to do so. In SA I do not see why it needs to be different.

My opinion is there should be as little limitations put on us in SA as possible. This is a limitation I do not see necessary. If you know a large group is hostile or what not and has claimed an area, do not go there then.

Claiming an area does not give them any special OOC rights at all, I do not see the problem.

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Guest

Nope, restricts RP too much and doesn't feel natural.

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Grihm    16

How does it restrict rp? It offers rp if nothing else and it removes groups huddeling in on spawnareas or claiming known weapons drops. Things that will be noticed forther on down the line.

I think that if you own an area, you should do work for it as well. Keep it lit up, guard it, patrol it or such. Besides, Is it more natural that you end up in kos situations or bad initiations because someone stepped inside some none existing border in a city the size of Cherno that has been "claimed" by 10 people? That imo is more unnatural and unnecesary since it will lead to an increase in reports.

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Moxy    19

Keep it simple, stupid -- Sums up how I feel about this.

The KISS principle states that most systems work best if they are kept simple rather than made complicated; therefore simplicity should be a key goal in design and unnecessary complexity should be avoided.

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Grihm    16

Keep it simple, stupid -- Sums up how I feel about this.

The KISS principle states that most systems work best if they are kept simple rather than made complicated; therefore simplicity should be a key goal in design and unnecessary complexity should be avoided.

Then let´s hope the problems wont even appear, and if they do im guessing its a battle for that day then. Will there be any regulations to people claiming hoptspots such as spawns etc? This, of course IF things start to spawn on the same location that is.

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Guest GreenGod   
Guest GreenGod

Keep it simple, stupid -- Sums up how I feel about this.

The KISS principle states that most systems work best if they are kept simple rather than made complicated; therefore simplicity should be a key goal in design and unnecessary complexity should be avoided.

Then let´s hope the problems wont even appear, and if they do im guessing its a battle for that day then. Will there be any regulations to people claiming hoptspots such as spawns etc? This, of course IF things start to spawn on the same location that is.

I have to agree with Moxy on the keep it simple stupid

can we please not rule play SA? I think things should flow as naturally as possible. I won't say this idea is horrible but I don't think it has a place in this community.

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Rampage    0

I must say NO to a staff faction with OP vehicles strong arming clans to pay a tax to use the city. It is not organic in any way.

Here is an idea I have thought of.

Lets say clan 1 claims Mysta or whatever city, doesn't matter. Clan 2 comes strolling in and through actually interaction with Clan 1 over time Clan 2 decides they want to take it. Clan 2 can war with Clan 1 in that city for a best out of 3 or 5. Whoever wins the most battles that clan stakes claim of that town for a weeks time while the losing clan can choose to let them have it and move on or have to build up reinforcements and do battle again.

Just an idea.

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Mikachu    26

No.

Stop trying to restrict everything and add more and more rules. We need less rules, more freedom, more natural stuff occurring and less worrying about stupid little rules like this.

This isn't a pve carebear server or game. It's supposed to be difficult and dangerous and exactly how it is currently. (Well 90%)

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