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Guest ArcticStarling

Settlement Rule Changes

Should it be allowed.   

126 members have voted

  1. 1. Should it be allowed.



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Guest ArcticStarling   
Guest ArcticStarling

Here is a poll for the server

Do you agree that CR's can shoot anyone on sight inside the 100m range settlement?

Yes or No. No in-between.

MAY I ALSO STATE HERE THAT THIS RULE ALSO INCLUDES ON THE SIDE OF IT THAT IF THE CR SHOOTS ON YOU, YOU CANNOT FIRE BACK AS IT IS AGAINST THE RULES

//Mush: This is a poll relating to a debate which was started in the weekly TS meetup.

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Vaine    23

MAY I ALSO STATE HERE THAT THIS RULE ALSO INCLUDES ON THE SIDE OF IT THAT IF THE CR SHOOTS ON YOU, YOU CANNOT FIRE BACK AS IT IS AGAINST THE RULES

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Guest   
Guest

Back in Altar when I was a CR, we never even shot our enemies on sight. We would either kick them out or listen to what they had to say and RP with them. Even after countless attacks, daily, we still enjoyed the RP from them and never thought about straight up shooting them. If it was done in a better RP way then I wouldn't mind it, but just killing on sight is not fun for the victims - Especially as it is the only settlement on the server currently.

I vote no.

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Cid    332

YOU or whoever their enemy is went through the trouble to piss them off and if you think for a second that they are going to let their ENEMY near their settlement just to hang about? Hell no. At least, I wouldn't. They have caused me trouble and fought me over and over again so hell no I wouldn't let them in. That's completely silly, to be honest. It's your risk to go to an enemy settlement, simple as that.

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Preplin    0

If the rule is to remain, it should be changed to allow the group being fired on by CR's to return fire and fight back

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Clammy    0

If you get shot at you aren't going to stand there and take it, you would fire back. Its honestly a stupid rule and its to OP.

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Burgz    6

YOU or whoever their enemy is went through the trouble to piss them off and if you think for a second that they are going to let their ENEMY near their settlement just to hang about? Hell no. At least, I wouldn't. They have caused me trouble and fought me over and over again so hell no I wouldn't let them in. That's completely silly, to be honest. It's your risk to go to an enemy settlement, simple as that.

We turned up on neutral grounds which was their decision. They instigated/provoked an attack and this was admitted by the leaders of said clans. They literally caused these refreshed activities.

Yeah, it's my risk and it's theirs to shoot me because I'm going to shoot back. Simple as that.

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Cid    332

YOU or whoever their enemy is went through the trouble to piss them off and if you think for a second that they are going to let their ENEMY near their settlement just to hang about? Hell no. At least, I wouldn't. They have caused me trouble and fought me over and over again so hell no I wouldn't let them in. That's completely silly, to be honest. It's your risk to go to an enemy settlement, simple as that.

We turned up on neutral grounds which was their decision. They instigated/provoked an attack and this was admitted by the leaders of said clans. They literally caused these refreshed activities.

Yeah, it's my risk and it's theirs to shoot me because I'm going to shoot back. Simple as that.

What do you mean by their decision? If you mean that you agreed to have talks and it ended up in you being in a trap that sounds like you falling for it and being your problem.

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Burgz    6

What do you mean by their decision? If you mean that you agreed to have talks and it ended up in you being in a trap that sounds like you falling for it and being your problem.

By their decision I mean they allowed us to come in as a neutral force. Their CRs at the time however were extremely rude and quick to shoot/cause hostilities. That was their fault and their decision to provoke our attacks.

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Cid    332

What do you mean by their decision? If you mean that you agreed to have talks and it ended up in you being in a trap that sounds like you falling for it and being your problem.

By their decision I mean they allowed us to come in as a neutral force. Their CRs at the time however were extremely rude and quick to shoot/cause hostilities. That was their fault and their decision to provoke our attacks.

You are enemies, I don't blame them. I was with FANGS a long time ago and we pretty much fought everyday around Cherno. I just don't understand why you expect to walk up to their gate and not expect hostilities. That's pretty much like walking in front of SVR with 10 MG's and expecting them NOT to say anything about directives. They will not treat you well and give you flowers when you arrive and let you, the same people that have been at their throats for who knows how long, just roam around at their camp.

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Zebulon    0

Allow me to just post this contradiction in the rules:

"Always prioritize role play over rule play. Do not use rights gained through rules if they give you an unfair advantage over others."

"Furthermore, you cannot force another player into a situation from which they cannot fight back."

VS

"By entering the camp you must obey all reasonable orders given to you by the CR's without gaining KoS rights. Likewise failure to comply can be punished by the CR's in whatever way they deem appropriate. Basically, you enter at your own risk and accept that CR's are in control while you are inside the compound."

"CR's can ask you to disarm yourself, lower your weapon, move to another part of the camp, leave the camp or pay any appropriate entrance fee without you having any kind of revenge or KoS rights on them."

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Vesper    0

I'm not sure why all of these new rules are even needed to be honest and hear me out. From my understanding, they were implemented because settlements were getting attacked by clans multiple times a day. Fair enough, that'd be frustrating. My question though is why not start with addressing that issue and work your way up if it doesn't work.

If constant attacks were trying to be avoided, why not make it a report worthy offense if a group attacks more than once within 48 hours or even 72 hours and why not just leave it at that?

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Guest   
Guest

Ok, the rules don't really say we can shoot anyone we want for no reason. We don't do that unless we are threatened or otherwise enforcing rules after they won't comply with any other lesser means of enforcing the rules.

Try enforcing the rules of a settlement for 1 day and you will understand why having this option is 100% necessary.

If we skip the other steps (asked to leave, disarmed and forced to leave with an escort), it's because they threatened us with a weapon.

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Kravock    1

I have to agree with most people here, not being able to shoot back is just stupid. No one in their right mind would let someone shoot at them, and not shoot back if they had the means to.

EDIT: This blue colour looks different!

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Guest Phalix   
Guest Phalix

Ok, the rules don't really say we can shoot anyone we want for no reason. We don't do that unless we are threatened or otherwise enforcing rules after they won't comply with any other lesser means of enforcing the rules.

Try enforcing the rules of a settlement for 1 day and you will understand why having this option is 100% necessary.

If we skip the other steps (asked to leave, disarmed and forced to leave with an escort), it's because they threatened us with a weapon.

raising a weapon=/= threaten

it's a community. If you think you're about to get shot without them initiating, then let it happen. rather them get a ban, than you look like that asshole cr who hides behind rules.

initiate, act as if that godly 'it's cr's land, they can say 'fuck the kos rules' doesn't apply.

someones acting a fool? ask to leave

he stays? be aggresive

he stays again? initiate

don't just be a bellend and shoot b/c 'rules allow it'

don't take it personal, to yourself or fangs, but to any cr in any settlement. from now, and in the future.

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Revilo    7

Why is this even debatable? of course it would be no. . .

relating back to the bit about them shooting at you but you not being able to shoot back makes about as much sense as going to Mcdonalds to order a salad. It makes no sense at all that you can get shot on sight and not being able to defend yourself.

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Guest

Ok, the rules don't really say we can shoot anyone we want for no reason. We don't do that unless we are threatened or otherwise enforcing rules after they won't comply with any other lesser means of enforcing the rules.

Try enforcing the rules of a settlement for 1 day and you will understand why having this option is 100% necessary.

If we skip the other steps (asked to leave, disarmed and forced to leave with an escort), it's because they threatened us with a weapon.

raising a weapon=/= threaten

it's a community. If you think you're about to get shot without them initiating, then let it happen. rather them get a ban, than you look like that asshole cr who hides behind rules.

initiate, act as if that godly 'it's cr's land, they can say 'fuck the kos rules' doesn't apply.

someones acting a fool? ask to leave

he stays? be aggresive

he stays again? initiate

don't just be a bellend and shoot b/c 'rules allow it'

don't take it personal, to yourself or fangs, but to any cr in any settlement. from now, and in the future.

Really? In character, in the real world, if someone points a gun in your face in response to you asking them to comply to a request is not a threat?

To say that it is not a threat is to completely ignore in-character interaction.


Why is this even debatable? of course it would be no. . .

relating back to the bit about them shooting at you but you not being able to shoot back makes about as much sense as going to Mcdonalds to order a salad. It makes no sense at all that you can get shot on sight and not being able to defend yourself.

It never says you cannot defend yourself. It just says you as a group cannot then attack the settlement. This is to protect against groups intentionally instigating fights, sacrificing one of their members to start a firefight in settlements.

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Guest Phalix   
Guest Phalix

Ok, the rules don't really say we can shoot anyone we want for no reason. We don't do that unless we are threatened or otherwise enforcing rules after they won't comply with any other lesser means of enforcing the rules.

Try enforcing the rules of a settlement for 1 day and you will understand why having this option is 100% necessary.

If we skip the other steps (asked to leave, disarmed and forced to leave with an escort), it's because they threatened us with a weapon.

raising a weapon=/= threaten

it's a community. If you think you're about to get shot without them initiating, then let it happen. rather them get a ban, than you look like that asshole cr who hides behind rules.

initiate, act as if that godly 'it's cr's land, they can say 'fuck the kos rules' doesn't apply.

someones acting a fool? ask to leave

he stays? be aggresive

he stays again? initiate

don't just be a bellend and shoot b/c 'rules allow it'

don't take it personal, to yourself or fangs, but to any cr in any settlement. from now, and in the future.

Really? In character, in the real world, if someone points a gun in your face in response to you asking them to comply to a request is not a threat?

To say that it is not a threat is to completely ignore in-character interaction.

But also, in a real world sense, you don't warn a camp the day before you attack. You wouldn't initiate, if my char was in irl, she'd just KoS SVR/SOBR because of her standings.

But things happen because OOC set rules force it to. There needs to be order and a barrier.

To say that 'game' barrier is nil for CR's is just a huge 'nope' in my eyes.

They need to follow the rules like the rest of us.

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Guest   
Guest

Ok, the rules don't really say we can shoot anyone we want for no reason. We don't do that unless we are threatened or otherwise enforcing rules after they won't comply with any other lesser means of enforcing the rules.

Try enforcing the rules of a settlement for 1 day and you will understand why having this option is 100% necessary.

If we skip the other steps (asked to leave, disarmed and forced to leave with an escort), it's because they threatened us with a weapon.

raising a weapon=/= threaten

it's a community. If you think you're about to get shot without them initiating, then let it happen. rather them get a ban, than you look like that asshole cr who hides behind rules.

Why should we do that? It's not enjoyable for us, who built that settlement for others to enjoy. Why should we have to sacrifice our enjoyment, roleplay and equipment because rule-breakers cause problems? What you're basically saying is that we cannot ever use any lethal force to defend ourselves, our settlements, and the rules.

If you do that, settlement rules mean nothing, and nobody will bother building and CRing a settlement they cannot manage and set enforceable rules for. Such a rule would kill PCBs or at least hinder their growth and proliferation, and it's a good thing for the server to have them.

If you go to a settlement, obey the rules. Otherwise, those who build and dedicate their characters to protecting said settlement should be able to defend themselves, their interests and the rules of that settlement that they built.


raising a weapon=/= threaten

it's a community. If you think you're about to get shot without them initiating, then let it happen. rather them get a ban, than you look like that asshole cr who hides behind rules.

initiate, act as if that godly 'it's cr's land, they can say 'fuck the kos rules' doesn't apply.

someones acting a fool? ask to leave

he stays? be aggresive

he stays again? initiate

don't just be a bellend and shoot b/c 'rules allow it'

don't take it personal, to yourself or fangs, but to any cr in any settlement. from now, and in the future.

Really? In character, in the real world, if someone points a gun in your face in response to you asking them to comply to a request is not a threat?

To say that it is not a threat is to completely ignore in-character interaction.

But also, in a real world sense, you don't warn a camp the day before you attack. You wouldn't initiate, if my char was in irl, she'd just KoS SVR/SOBR because of her standings.

But things happen because OOC set rules force it to. There needs to be order and a barrier.

To say that 'game' barrier is nil for CR's is just a huge 'nope' in my eyes.

They need to follow the rules like the rest of us.

And that barrier has been set, and needs to be limited since it gets in the way of IC sense.

It's nil because you're in territory owned, built and managed by the CRs. I can tell you right now that if I'm going to get pushed around, murdered and insulted by douchebags 24/7, I just won't bother, and will not CR the camp, and people will not bother building PCBs.


Is it "hiding behind rules" if it makes PERFECT IC SENSE to shoot the guy threatening you with a weapon? Hiding behind a rule implies that only the rule justifies the behavior, but if someone shoves a gun in my face and threatens me, I think I am justified in defending myself, especially if I am the in-game equivalent of a police officer in that area.

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Guest Phalix   
Guest Phalix

I'm not saying don't defend yourself. I'm saying instead I blatantly shooting someone, then initiate ok said person.

And after you initiate, plan on his group coming in and attempting to kick some cr ass.

Mske it fair game.

Fangs can rob anyone they want, but break newtons law of 'every action has an equal and opposite reaction'

You rob someone in a group, their group should be able to rob/kill you.

It's simple physics.

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Guest   
Guest

Ok, the rules don't really say we can shoot anyone we want for no reason. We don't do that unless we are threatened or otherwise enforcing rules after they won't comply with any other lesser means of enforcing the rules.

Try enforcing the rules of a settlement for 1 day and you will understand why having this option is 100% necessary.

If we skip the other steps (asked to leave, disarmed and forced to leave with an escort), it's because they threatened us with a weapon.

someones acting a fool? ask to leave

he stays? be aggresive

he stays again? initiate

...You do realize that you just quoted the Solace CR guidelines, right? We're not cowboys going around and shooting everyone who breaks any rule. We make a habit out of giving people MULTIPLE WARNINGS before we even attempt to disarm them. (the "be aggressive" stage). I've seen CRs many times give 7 or 8 warnings. There seems to be this stigma against CRs, like they are trigger happy. This is not true and it is really annoying. We will spend many boring hours guarding an empty settlement so that there is RP opportunities for this server, and then we get treated like Nazi SS by people who grief us and we give multiple chances.

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Guest Phalix   
Guest Phalix

But 'scripted' RP protected by rules is stale as hell, CR's have to many rules to protect them IMO.

edit: the horrible spelling is autocorrect killing me slowly.

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Guest   
Guest

I'm not saying don't defend yourself. I'm saying instead I blatantly shooting someone, then initiate ok said person.

And after you initiate, plan on his group coming in and attempting to kick some cr ass.

Mske it fair game.

Fangs can rob anyone they want, but break newtons law of 'every action has an equal and opposite reaction'

You rob someone in a group, their group should be able to rob/kill you.

It's simple physics.

I don't know who these CRs are that randomly shoot people that you are referring to. I have spent dozens of hours CRing and know almost all of the CRs and their CRing habits. True, some are more aggressive than others, but none of them are unreasonable. I have never seen a CR shoot someone who didn't first threaten them, and 90% of interactions with rule breakers never end in a shooting or even a threat with a weapon by the CR.


But 'scripted' RP protected by rules is stale as hell, CR's have to many rules to protect them IMO.

Those rules aren't even used. Solace CRs show an enormous amount of restraint most of the time. It feels like a slap in the face to CRs to act like they are abusing their power when a good amount of their authority is never even touched.


I'm not saying don't defend yourself. I'm saying instead I blatantly shooting someone, then initiate ok said person.

And after you initiate, plan on his group coming in and attempting to kick some cr ass.

Mske it fair game.

Fangs can rob anyone they want, but break newtons law of 'every action has an equal and opposite reaction'

You rob someone in a group, their group should be able to rob/kill you.

It's simple physics.

That forces hero faction guards to basically do the same things bandits do, which sort of ruins the "civilization RP" that hero factions now get.

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Guest Phalix   
Guest Phalix

If you don't abide the rules, and rarely use them, why defend them?..

Just let the rules no longer exist, you do what you've been doing, be healthy.... be happy..,

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