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Frayzies

First-Person-Only in Standalone Poll (One server, not all)

Which perspective do you Support?  

560 members have voted

  1. 1. Which perspective do you Support?

    • I support first-person-only.
      261
    • I have no opinion.
      26
    • I support third-person enabled.
      273


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Frayzies    6

First-Person-Only DayZ Standalone Server Implementation.

I think we all know that when approaching this topic we're going to be touching on something that is pretty divisive in the DayZRP community, as well as the Arma community in general. In the spirit of roleplay and an effort to enhance the DayZRP standalone experience, I'd like to propose a move for changing the DayZ standalone server to first-person only.

There are a few reasons why I think this would be a necessary and appropriate move for us to take for DayZ Standalone, and as Standalone is sort of in its own way a "fresh start" for us, I think it would be really great to start off on the right foot.

--------------------------------------------------------

My own supporting sentiment:

- DayZRP is first and foremost about roleplaying. We're here to immerse ourselves in a world that we otherwise wouldn't be able to. (-and hopefully won't ever have to.) In my own opinion, any effort we can make to help DayZ feel more like reality is for the better - meaning the less like a game we can make things, the more conductive a roleplay environment we're given to play in. Being locked to first-person-only provides an intimate and limited field of vision that I feel heightens everyone's experienced quality of roleplay. (This is at least the case for me.) Similar to how people enjoy scary video-games, many of our favorite horror games would be considerably less scary if you took the view of a disembodied floating camera as opposed to your own two eyes.

- The earlier we establish the DayZ standalone server as first-person-only, the easier it will be for people to become acclimated to the change in gameplay that the sort of thing entails. This is furthered in my next point.

- The most significant reason why, in my opinion, we should do away with the third-person-camera is that it allows us to meta-game and see what we otherwise should not be able to see. We all do it, myself included, whether we realize it or not.

8bdb0214-faee-490d-9be2-58b720e9b9eb_zps4569f7ae.png

<- Shown in green we see the player character. Where he currently stands, in first person view, he would be staring headlong into a wall and would see nothing but a face full of granite/concrete. That being said, in the direction of the door he is relatively safe from fire that could be directed toward him.

<- Shown in red is what I refer to as "metagame vision". We're all aware of the fact that the third-person camera allows you to see around corners, over objects, and otherwise know "what is beyond" without having to actually stick your head around the corner, or over the fence, like you should have to. This is the biggest offender and the central part of my argument in favor of having first-person-only enforced. I would go as far as to say that this is a direct detriment to both roleplay and DayZRP's firefights, in that it throws away any sense of realism and inherently cripples/dooms anyone who prefers to play in first-person when in a situation that might put them against a third-person using foe. All the third-person using player has to do is camp a corner, wait for his opponent to draw near, then quickly pop out and shoot him. It's a copy+paste method that we've all seen in dozens of youtube videos.

The following summarizes many of my points in video-form

[video=youtube]

<- I'd like to note that like many, if not all of us, I really like the ability to see my character simply for the sake of admiring the clothing I've put together, or for that beautiful panorama that you can soak in when standing at the crest of a hill - or simply when you're just strolling through the woods and enjoying Arma/DayZ's neat ambient sounds. Nevertheless I think it would be good for us to sacrifice these luxuries for the sake of roleplay/fairness, and would personally be more than willing to do just that.

--------------------------------------------------

In an effort to streamline this OP I have included some well written and well thought out community responses to this thread. They're shown below.

Tomeran -

I voted no for reasons I've probably explained about 20-30 times prior in this community. Joking, but I'll give it a go regardless.

I cant deny that there are certain benefits with 1st person view, primarily not being able to look around corners and such. But frankly, that's about it. That's the only real argument that holds up.

You can see other arguments like "its more immersive" and frankly, I find that a load of bull. What is and isnt immersive is when it comes to these things very very personal. I find forced 1st person to be annoying and full of constraints and it prevents me from enjoying many of the character customizations. Normally when I've presented this I've been accused of "just wanting it for the PvP boons" and I constantly have to remind people that no: I dont PvP, or at least I PvP very very very rarely. So right there goes the myth that its only pvpers that want 3rd person enabled and that its only roleplayers that want 1st person enabled, or that 1st person would be more "immersive" for everyone. I know this doesnt just apply to myself but to a big load of other people, all with fairly similar gaming interests to myself.

In short, I dont -hate- 1st person but I want the option. Toggling between 3rd and 1st is the ideal solution, giving people the preferential immersive choice that they want. The "PvP boon" argument is -the- only argument against that and I dont think its enough of an issue to make up for how much it will actually trample over everyone else that dont like forced 1st person.

Like SumoS, I expect the poll results to only result in some "forced 1st person" option if they -really really- end up in massive majority for one way, otherwise it will seriously trample over a large part of the other community.

I sincerely believe that I wouldnt enjoy SA as much as I could if I would be locked and forced into a 1st person view, and that's not exactly an enticing thought for what is probably the future of dayzrp.

Firematt -

No.

It will always be a no from me about forced first person no matter what game we move RP onto. I find first person restrictive and claustrophobic, and that's coming from someone who likes small, cosy areas.

Why not just have the option for first and third? It's worked so far and we need to remember that it's a game. It's supposed to be fun. Forcing perspectives onto people is not something fun and forcing people to play certain ways is not something we as a community should be doing. That's what we are. A community, and because of that we need to cater to as many play-styles as we can.

If you like to be completely immersed in RP by using first person, nobody is going to stop you. Sure third person might help in PvP but that's just a setback of the medium. I don't see why we should force the entire community to play with a forced perspective just because it's a bit unfair in PvP.

BigLittleShorts -

It seems that judging by the poll so far I'll continue to talk with people who are looking at the ground and get initiated on from behind tall concrete walls. The fact that Standalone has an FoV and head bob slider to me renders the motion sickness and claustrophobic argument invalid. The only strong reasoning in my opinion is the lack of various stances to allow for peeking over rocks as SumoS mentions.

The reason why people want to push 1st person is the immersion, nothing compares to it. The problem in Standalone with third person is the possibility for exploitation being greatly increased. With the FoV slider you can zoom so far out that glitching the view through buildings is a common occurrence and easily achievable. This compounded with the initiation rule in DayZRP still being clunky, the possibility for 'hidden' initiaitions is high and it greatly breaks immersion. In DayZRP it's about getting that visual upper-hand in initiation scenarios and with third person it's so much easier in Standalone to do that.

Sure I have the choice now but I'm fed up of being initiated upon by 'invisible' people, speaking to people who are looking at the ground and being spotted through thick concrete walls. That is what still ruins DayZRP for me. Playing third-person feels too powerful, it feels unnatural and unrealistic. There's no real choice to be had if you want to actually come out of situations alive. Playing first-person in a server where third-person is allowed is a MASSIVE handicap and in most scenarios will result in you being the victim, I know that from experience.

TL;DR 1st person is best, please remove 3rd person from game Rocket.

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Guest

Typically I'd vote no on this. But, after spending a lot of time on Standalone, I am all for this. First person only please.

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DinoB    20

I support the "First person only" but this most likely wont happen. Too much people like looking at their character while roleplaying, they say it adds to the immersion. In my opinion it would make it much more realistic, especially in standalone, it would give a bit of a scarier feeling.

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Frayzies    6

Old video and repeat of old thread?

Give full range of postures like in Arma 3. Only then would I agree.

In Rolle's recent announcement page, I quote, "We have 3rd person view ON at the moment and day only, but settings can change depending on the community voice, so if you want a setting changed - create a poll!."

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Doc    3

I agree with what you have to say Frayzies. I vote "yes" for a first-person-only DayZ SA server. No more DayZPvP

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Guest

pls no.

I love the idea of not being able to see people around corners, which is cheap.. but..

I HATE the 1st person camera. Seriously. I hate it. I cannot play horror games in 1st person. I get too claustrophobic. I most likely won't play SA if it's FP. I tried FP-only servers and didn't like it nearly as much.

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In Rolle's recent announcement page, I quote, "We have 3rd person view ON at the moment and day only, but settings can change depending on the community voice, so if you want a setting changed - create a poll!."

Rolle! *shakes fist*

Deja vu, buddy!

I'm in the no camp until the first person view becomes less limited to prone, crouch (lean left and right) and standing (lean left and right). It is the same as the mod.

Want to peak over that rock? Tough shit, stand up.

Arma 3's posture system, variable height combined with added levels of lean make it much more manageable and it is much less restrictive. That's why I am voting no.

Edit: I hope it will be a clear majority vote that is a decider.

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KpopKilla    69

I would love this, but most people have issues with the first person camera. Voted yes for realism.

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In Rolle's recent announcement page, I quote, "We have 3rd person view ON at the moment and day only, but settings can change depending on the community voice, so if you want a setting changed - create a poll!."

Want to peak over that rock? Tough shit, stand up.

THIS.

That, and when you can see your target above the obstacle in first person, and the bullets still hit the obstacle in front of you, and you get killed.

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Tomeran    3

I voted no for reasons I've probably explained about 20-30 times prior in this community. :D

But I'll give it a go regardless.

I cant deny that there are certain benefits with 1st person view, primarily not being able to look around corners and such. But frankly, that's about it. That's the only real argument that holds up.

You can see other arguments like "its more immersive" and frankly, I find that a load of bull. What is and isnt immersive is when it comes to these things very very personal. I find forced 1st person to be annoying and full of constraints and it prevents me from enjoying many of the character customizations. Normally when I've presented this I've been accused of "just wanting it for the PvP boons" and I constantly have to remind people that no: I dont PvP, or at least I PvP very very very rarely. So right there goes the myth that its only pvpers that want 3rd person enabled and that its only roleplayers that want 1st person enabled, or that 1st person would be more "immersive" for everyone. I know this doesnt just apply to myself but to a big load of other people, all with fairly similar gaming interests to myself.

In short, I dont -hate- 1st person but I want the option. Toggling between 3rd and 1st is the ideal solution, giving people the preferential immersive choice that they want. The "PvP boon" argument is -the- only argument against that and I dont think its enough of an issue to make up for how much it will actually trample over everyone else that dont like forced 1st person.

Like SumoS, I expect the poll results to only result in some "forced 1st person" option if they -really really- end up in massive majority for one way, otherwise it will seriously trample over a large part of the other community.

I sincerely believe that I wouldnt enjoy SA as much as I could if I would be locked and forced into a 1st person view, and that's not exactly an enticing thought for what is probably the future of dayzrp.

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Frayzies    6

Rolle! *shakes fist*

Deja vu, buddy!

I'm in the no camp until the first person view becomes less limited to prone, crouch (lean left and right) and standing (lean left and right). It is the same as the mod.

Want to peak over that rock? Tough shit, stand up.

Arma 3's posture system, variable height combined with added levels of lean make it much more manageable and it is much less restrictive. That's why I am voting no.

Edit: I hope it will be a clear majority vote that is a decider.

I agree that the current system of crouching, leaning, laying, and standing isn't the best. It isn't even good. Arma 3 strode leaps and bounds with its new posture system; definitely have to commend them. Nevertheless I see first-person-limited as a preferable alternative to Arma/DayZ's third person camera. The DayZ team has also stressed that their end-game for DayZ is to remove most of the "clunkiness" that we're used to when it comes to that game, which might be hinting at a similar posture system to Arma's. Here's to hoping.

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Ironicman    7

Cute stuff has a point! First person all the way! Also PvP is mutch more spooky and RP more immersive and really feels like you talk to a person ingame as you look them straight to the face.

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Hofer    20

Yes. Force first-person now while we can. Remove the PVP advantage and sillyness of looking over 3m high walls.

Cute stuff has a point! First person all the way! Also PvP is mutch more spooky and RP more immersive and really feels like you talk to a person ingame as you look them straight to the face.

I actually agree with you for once.

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I agree that the current system of crouching, leaning, laying, and standing isn't the best. It isn't even good. Arma 3 strode leaps and bounds with its new posture system; definitely have to commend them. Nevertheless I see first-person-limited as a preferable alternative to Arma/DayZ's third person camera. The DayZ team has also stressed that their end-game for DayZ is to remove most of the "clunkiness" that we're used to when it comes to that game, which might be hinting at a similar posture system to Arma's. Here's to hoping.

Agreed, man.

Personally, until they do get rid of it I see 3rd Person as a necessary evil.

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Frayzies    6

---

All valid points. I agree that what is immersive and what isn't ultimately boils down to personal preference and I can understand your sentiment. In all honesty I actually love the third person camera. I just think that it would be for the betterment of the server as a whole to sacrifice the third-person-camera, and ultimately that's why I'm willing to do so.

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The Clown    1

Spent quite a bit of time on 1st person only DayZero servers and tried it for myself on DayZRP aswell. It honestly didn't do much for me feeling more immersed or anything like that, but firefights are sure a hell of a lot more intense, even getting chased by zombies is.

Yes from me.

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RoCKiE    0

Voted for first person only, fully agree with the points you made Frayzies.

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I agree it would be cool with first person only, but I still enjoy being able to look at the skins i have enabled and all of the cool head gear you can wear. With being able to see around walls in 3rd person when pvping, everyone has the option to use it. If your in a pvp fight and choose to fight in first person for the immersion then that's you're choice. But someone on the opposing side is probably using 3rd person and has a big advantage over you, and will probably get the kill.

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I voted yes. But i do love 3rd person. I like to look at my character when I play. I only use third person when running through woods or sitting by a fire because I like to take pictures :P. but when I go looting or in a huge city or pvping, I go first person. Way more fun. But there are always those third personing scrubs in firefights :(

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Tamaster92    14

Once modding is in - would be cool to have first person only when gun is raised, third person enabled when lowered

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Once modding is in - would be cool to have first person only when gun is raised, third person enabled when lowered

are you god?

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Frayzies    6

I agree it would be cool with first person only, but I still enjoy being able to look at the skins i have enabled and all of the cool head gear you can wear. With being able to see around walls in 3rd person when pvping, everyone has the option to use it. If your in a pvp fight and choose to fight in first person for the immersion then that's you're choice. But someone on the opposing side is probably using 3rd person and has a big advantage over you, and will probably get the kill.

This is for the standalone. There are no enable-able skins in standalone.

As for PvP, one of the points of this would be to put everyone on the same realistic level when it comes down to shooting eachother. Yes, it's currently a choice - that doesn't mean someone should be doomed to death in QCB because they prioritize immersion over getting your gear.

-on a side note, I actually know the artist (Pyrosity) of your icon. Really nice fellow. Probably shouldn't be using Corbies' (owner of said picture) stuff without him knowing though. That is unless you are Corbies.

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