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Red

The Execution Thread.

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Red    138

Dear Community,

I'm writing this because of the increasing amount of events and reports involving Execution. I've been playing for a a good while and executions have been a pet peeve of mine for the longest time but with so much of them happening as of late, I felt the need to make a post about this. Huge post ahead, but I intend to make some points here. So bear with me.

Executions? Why?

Executions are cool, sure. I can understand the player in this case thinking. It's the ultimate way of getting back at my enemy. They got me first, I'm raising the bar and telling them off by doing this. So you make him/her kneel and you put a cap in his head. End of story. What now? Your grude is over right? No? Well it should be. Your nemesis in this situation has been killed off by you. "But he's not actually dead though." You might think. And that's exactly where the problem lies. No permanent kill.

This is where my issues arises. Executions are for a lot of players not permanent. So why bother? Why do them? There are exceptions to the rule ofcourse, where a hostage does not comply or when you figure out that his allies are nearby and attacking. In that last part even you can decide against executing, because your hostage is not the threat. His friends/allies are. So why? The underlying tone in executions in this might simply be "Ha, I just owned you."

Executions are for the majority of the part completely unnessecary and it puts both parties in an awkward position afterwards. We are all familiar with your character blacking out and not actually dying if you get killed by a zombie or by other causes. An execution though is entirely different. Someone actually puts a bullet through your characters head. There is hardly any way to RP around this. So let me ask this question once more: Why execute?

Taking a step back.

You're looking at your enemy. He's alone, maybe he has one friend walking by his side. You and or your crew can take him on, but you know there are more of his friends are around. Okay so what now? "We have got to make this quick." "We got to take them away to another place or else they are going to catch us." That there is already an issue. You are setting your group up for a possible payback or ambush. I understand players wanting to have action, but isn't action best when you actually planned it out perfectly and you win? I have cooperated with various groups in the past and done numerous firefights and a good eight out of ten were too rushed and poorly planned. It resulted in unneeded casualties, people being oocly upset. All in all, completely unnessecary.

Think before you act and more importantly think ahead of what you are planning to do with them next.

Hostage situation.

Okay so you have captured your enemy. He's struggling, perhaps giving you lip. What can you do to make him obedient? You rough him up, simple as that. Some characters are tougher than others and are harder to break. But every character has a breaking point. If a player decides to play a mister rambo kind of guy who can take the whole world, than that's just badRP and reportable. Keep that in mind. What if a player is not initially complying to your commands? Hold on, don't pull the trigger just yet. He's probably already unarmed in this particular situation. Some people are tougher to deal with. You can obviously decide to kill him right there and then, but then your RP session with this particular player is over. Where's the fun in that right?

Allow yourself to take time for another player. Provide a good experience for not only him but yourself as well. Don't deny yourself an RP scene by gunning the guy down. Sure it will get you gear, but you already get that after the RP scene. And we're not here to play for gear. We're here to Roleplay. So be more threatening, put your money where your mouth is and damage him some more. Again keep in mind there is a line. If he continues his act up than obviously you're in your right to execute him. The only thing I'm asking you as a player is to have patience. If you planned your robbery right, you won't have to worry about people gunning you down for good samaritan or his allies having KoS on you.

No surrender.

"I'm not going to ever surrender. If someone robs me, I'll fight. They will have to gun me down." I'm sure this is recognizable by some of the players in this community. A foolish thought perhaps. Some might even say no value for life. I personally wouldn't go that far. Just like in real life there are people who have peace with the thought in their mind that they will not surrender, no matter what. We as human beings might not run into these people during our daily life, but they are out there. From an RP perspective, I would just want to ask you to reconsider. We are here to roleplay, so why are you denying yourself that? Allow yourself to be captured.

Experience the thrill of being into serious trouble. Let your character be shaped by these experiences. Your character will not properly develop if you deny yourself these oppertunities. "Oppertunities? Robberies are shite!" They don't have to be. They can be just as enjoyable for you. You just have to put yourself into it, and give the other party a chance.

Afterwards.

You are coming at an end of a roleplay scene. What do you do with a hostage? "I'm not going to seem like a bad person, if I let him go! We're raiders, we're supposed to be murderes, we should kill him! My character is supposed to be like that!" Okay so you want to execute this person. I can respect that. Now If I were in a situation like that, I would mind the other player first. How would he feel if I executed him OOCLY? Would he be okay with it, or would he hate it. Me personally, If I get executed, that's it. My character is perma killed. I go into the game like that and luckily for me, I have never been robbed to the point where I would be executed. But this is something that I accept. Knowing this, I hope that the executioners out there will reconsider there decision. There are players like me out there who play like this.

So what would be the right way out in all of this. Ask for consent. "BUT THATS BREAKING IMMERSION." C'mon now, one message with the intention of both having an enjoyable RP experience is not going to ruin your immersion. You are both playing to have a good time, so just ask. It's actually common courtesy in various other Roleplay communities to ask for consent before executing a person. Hell even with decaptition of limbs, I would recommend asking for consent. All in all a question and a response takes ten seconds. If the person says no, then you just let him go. Rough him up a bit more and let him serve as a message to the other group. You're here to build up story lines. Letting a person go will allow that person to have a memory of a robbery. To have a memory of you and your group. He can build up a grudge or might become afraid of running into you or your group again.

That person who has a grudge might want to come get you and that's how you create storylines. Do realize though that the person with the grudge should not automatically execute either. Give each other the oppertunity to build a storyline with the later down the road, PERHAPS the chance of an execution. Trust me when I say that you will both have a much more enjoyable

experience in game.

To summarize all of this. Executions are in my opinion only okay if a person either gives consent to it, or if they are CONSISTANTLY, to the point of you running out of RP options, none compliant with your demands. In other words, ruining a Roleplay experience.

What I would like to see is players below, leaving their opinions about this behind. Perhaps we can even go as far as making a petition that all groups will sign to prevent mass executions from happening with the intention of improving our roleplay experience. This thread is made to discuss the matter. If you have opinions, please elaborate below.

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Guest   
Guest

Executions are fun when you get a GP-25 smashed into your head :P

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Whose says that when you execute someone they have to be a specific person...if I execute you Red, I roleplay out that it was just a member of CLF, I don't give names and basically make the execution "generic" if you get what I am saying. If I am being executed I just roleplay it out as I got robbed and knocked out and left for dead, because my character is not suppost to remember things that led to his death so its not really that awkward for me...

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Red    138

Whose says that when you execute someone they have to be a specific person...if I execute you Red, I roleplay out that it was just a member of CLF, I don't give names and basically make the execution "generic" if you get what I am saying. If I am being executed I just roleplay it out as I got robbed and knocked out and left for dead, because my character is not suppost to remember things that led to his death so its not really that awkward for me...

Yes, that's a thing we came up with to not actually perma kill our characters shortly after creation. "It was someone else." I get the thought behind it. The experience would be a lot better though if you did not have to take those steps, and your character actually remembered it. Where does that overlap happen though? I mean you roleplayed your character seconds before getting shot. Does he change when you die? And what sense does that really make? The executioner would remember executing you, but you don't... Which obviously makes sense, given the situation. But it just makes for awkward situations afterwards.

What my OP was bascially about was. Why go around and fix uncomfortable situations if we can avoid them?

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Guest   
Guest

A very valid point here Red and I'm glad you're making it. Executions are massively too common, They should be seen as an extreme response to a long standing grudge.

I think finding the tipping point for this could be tricky,Executions could be a massive part in this community if done correctly. I think R.A.H were the last group I seen that came close to doing it right.

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Burgz    6

My forum-sense is telling me that there is already a thread on this...I cannot be sure though.

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Red    138

My forum-sense is telling me that there is already a thread on this...I cannot be sure though.

This thread is also sort of meant as a guide to give some tips and tricks on how to avoid executions. There are various survior tips/tricks guides out there too :P

Hopefully this one has a different angle and is perhaps a little more, if not a little too elaborated.

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Guest   
Guest

The thing about executions is...Theres only so many times you are going to put up with someones shit back and forth robbing and counter robbing ,torturing and "message" sending only goes so far you actually run out of things to do to people other than shoot them in the head or even better hit them with a baseball bat or something then you havent "really" killed them just hit them over the head.

I dont mind executions as long as they are semi-justified and played out well hell I come from the era of DayZRP where you didnt even need a reason to finish people off but guess what as long as its done right its still enjoyable which is something a lot of players recently don't seem to understand I see people complaining like every death is the means for a report.

I have been executed plenty of times in the past by clans like SKA, SVR and yeah I still enjoyed it thoroughly even though I died it is possible funnily enough I dont see why people make this big deal about having to remember things IC if your groups are at the stage of executing each other the story is already there what you gonna say? "oh I was robbed by....for the 245th time since I was in ...."

I genuinely don't understand why people whine about being executed...you still end up in the same position as you would if you were let go with no gear and in some obscure location and having to re-gear same as if you were executed

other than the fact of "oh its a rule you cant kill me report report" that a LOT of people like to hide behind I actually fail to see a real reason people complain about it SOOOOOOOOOOO much.

One of the funniest things I like reading on this forum is when people put up reports that go something like this "I was executed after my clan tried to rescue me by killing 5 of the hostage takers" I genuinely have to step back from my PC and say to myself "are you fucking serious?" look up what hostage leverage is the idea of having a hostage is that they die if your friends attempt to save you this is a real life thing Quit complaining about it.

Dying is a part of the game...Its also stupidly easy to RP out of Like ZombieHunterX said

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Major Tom    78

I tend to only comply and allow myself to be captured if I actually want to RP with the people robbing me. This doesn't happen often, as I'll usually recognise who's robbing me and know that the inevitable execution will be rushed. When you're the leader of a bandit group, it's not a question of if they execute me it's a question of how. I don't want some shitty little new clan to pop a bullet in my head and get a massive ego boner because they killed a leader.

Last time I was properly enjoyably executed was when RSM captured me nearly a year ago. Hell, they didn't even intend to execute me I just died from all the torture. Bloody Jamie killed me with a tin can. Blame Jamie.

Nowadays, I just fight back. I know people hate when that happens but honestly I'd rather just get gunned down with a chance of escaping/killing them instead of sitting through an hour of "We are big badasses and you are a worthless criminal, we will kill you because of X, Y and Z. We are better than you, blah blah blah now you are sentenced to death."

Your post is good though. I really do agree with pretty much all of it. People use executions as a 'screw you' kinda thing, and I'm a bit guilty of that as well. I've done executions where I've regretted them right after because of the missed RP opportunity. Let's hope more people read this and take your words in to account!

EDIT: One way I've done it before is use a 'tranquilliser' gun. You shoot them in the head, then they wake up somewhere else with no gear. Just tell them beforehand that they will be tranquillised and then moved somewhere else for safety. Not used this method too often, though.

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Red    138

The thing about executions is...Theres only so many times you are going to put up with someones shit back and forth robbing and counter robbing ,torturing and "message" sending only goes so far you actually run out of things to do to people other than shoot them in the head.

Exactly this though. The problem now though is that it happens -too- fast. What room is there for character development if a character cannot remember the experience afterwards. It should of course not be a constant back and forth, but enemy interaction between groups that last longer than attack and revenge would be really refreshing to see.

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Guest   
Guest

The thing about executions is...Theres only so many times you are going to put up with someones shit back and forth robbing and counter robbing ,torturing and "message" sending only goes so far you actually run out of things to do to people other than shoot them in the head.

Exactly this though. The problem now though is that it happens -too- fast. What room is there for character development if a character cannot remember the experience afterwards. It should of course not be a constant back and forth, but enemy interaction between groups that last longer than attack and revenge would be really refreshing to see.

if your groups are at the stage of executing each other the story is already there what you going to say if you survive? "oh I was robbed by....for the 245th time since I was in ...."

Already covered it but I agree a lot of people think one robbery means execution and honestly it shouldnt...but obviously there is room for character development even if you die it comes in the shape of the forums take a picture of said "dead body" dont give the guy a name just put "another CLF member" for example and because its an IC post every other person who reads it can develop off it especially if something creative is posted with it instead of just "another dead" but nobody seems to bother with this as usually you are verbally assaulted by people with accusations of flame or flamebaiting.

but and its a big but.....there are some creative things you can do with it for example back in the ISOA I genuinely "executed" a civilian I had never met before in front of a guy brutally and it actually made the guy watching say what I wanted him to I was also told afterwards by both people that they enjoyed me doing it because it was Scary and unexpected

Now although I was praised on roleplay for that and the whole situation I wouldnt even be allowed to think about doing that now days...Why shouldn't i be able to do that again? is my question really.

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Guest Phalix   
Guest Phalix

>you comply, executed with no chance of killing any of them

>not comply, maybe take one or two down with you

soooo theres the issue

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Rick    19

Executions? Why?

I agree with some of this. In the end, unless you don't have executions at all, you will have to RP around them. Just because there are less of them, doesn't mean that issue will ever go away. I think every execution is situational, though I'd agree currently they probably do happen slightly too much.

The conflicting view I have with a lack of executions, is a lot of the time it doesn't make sense not to, mostly when it comes to group conflicts. Lets say I'm at war with another group. We've been at war for 2 weeks, and had several fights. I capture one by himself. Do I really want to let him go? He will just go back to his friends, then be an extra man during the next fight. Now there are exceptions based on each RP experience of course, and I have let enemies go plenty of times based on the interrogation. However for conflicts to be played out realistically, there does have to be killing some of the time.

Taking a step back.

Being spontaneous with hostilities isn't always a bad thing, as a lot of the time opportunities have a very small window to act. I would agree though that you have to be smart with how you approach the situation, and deal with problems that may arise. Otherwise, things can go downhill very quickly.

Hostage Situation.

Agreed. I think people in general have to lower their breaking point slightly. With almost every hostage I come across, I usually have to break their legs and them some just to get the information I want. Realistically, I think the sight of a gun would be enough. Now, of course every character is different, but I think a lot are slightly tougher then they should be. I think a mixture of more determination from hostage takers and slightly more compliance from victims could go a long way.

No Surrender.

Agreed. Robberies make up a lot of who my character is, and how he treats certain people. Unless you're playing a very specific type of person with your character, don't deny yourself the experience.

Afterwards.

This would work some of the time I think. In the end, this is a game. If doing something like killing somebody will upset them a lot, is it really worth it? Checking with somebody never hurts, though I get the feeling that people could use this to get out of robberies. Lets say I rob somebody. He complies, we have a talk, and I tell him if he hurts my friends again I will kill him. Over the next few days he robs and tortures my friends, and I again capture him. If he didn't' want to be killed, he should have heeded the warning. Some hostage situations are random and don't have IC reasons leading up to them. Many, however, do. I think that if people really don't like being killed, then they have to be aware how their actions in-game will affect people. If they perform actions in game that truly warrant an execution, they shouldn't be upset that they were killed.

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   61

I tend to only comply and allow myself to be captured if I actually want to RP with the people robbing me. This doesn't happen often, as I'll usually recognise who's robbing me and know that the inevitable execution will be rushed. When you're the leader of a bandit group, it's not a question of if they execute me it's a question of how. I don't want some shitty little new clan to pop a bullet in my head and get a massive ego boner because they killed a leader.

Last time I was properly enjoyably executed was when RSM captured me nearly a year ago. Hell, they didn't even intend to execute me I just died from all the torture. Bloody Jamie killed me with a tin can. Blame Jamie.

Nowadays, I just fight back. I know people hate when that happens but honestly I'd rather just get gunned down with a chance of escaping/killing them instead of sitting through an hour of "We are big badasses and you are a worthless criminal, we will kill you because of X, Y and Z. We are better than you, blah blah blah now you are sentenced to death."

Your post is good though. I really do agree with pretty much all of it. People use executions as a 'screw you' kinda thing, and I'm a bit guilty of that as well. I've done executions where I've regretted them right after because of the missed RP opportunity. Let's hope more people read this and take your words in to account!

EDIT: One way I've done it before is use a 'tranquilliser' gun. You shoot them in the head, then they wake up somewhere else with no gear. Just tell them beforehand that they will be tranquillised and then moved somewhere else for safety. Not used this method too often, though.

10/10 I agree with everything you said, except for the regretting part. What's done is done I never look back.

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Laurence Taylor    3

Completely agree. I love letting my helpless hostages go after fucking with their head a bit :D

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Red    138

So from I get in these previous post is that it's also slightly a pride thing. A character being so far developed that you do not want him/her to be captured by rookies that just got in the server and are looking to make a name for themselves. Alright I do understand that.

My follow up question would be, do you automatically write off the new group/person or do you give them or him/her a chance to prove themselves during RP.

Not giving the person a chance to RP with you can seem like elitism. I understand the thought and reasoning behind it, but if that's the general thought of the server than we need to start giving more people a fair chance.

Change can only happen if you want it to after all. :)

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Murdercool    32

I do dislike executions. I'm not saying no one should do them but I like to see them as a rare gift. It's always awkward once you've executed someone then you see them again later on. I find it always sends a better message if you torture them then let them go. They've then remembered what happened and have a feud with you. It makes for all the better RP and executions just seem clumsy sometimes. Great thread Red!

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The Clown    1

So from I get in these previous post is that it's also slightly a pride thing. A character being so far developed that you do not want him/her to be captured by rookies that just got in the server and are looking to make a name for themselves. Alright I do understand that.

My follow up question would be, do you automatically write off the new group/person or do you give them or him/her a chance to prove themselves during RP.

Not giving the person a chance to RP with you can seem like elitism. I understand the thought and reasoning behind it, but if that's the general thought of the server than we need to start giving more people a fair chance.

Change can only happen if you want it to after all. :)

In Toms case... I think he usually knows what to expect from groups at the point he meets them ingame since he was able to read about them for the three weeks of fourm-only activity since his last visit to Chernarus :)

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Guest The Reverend   
Guest The Reverend

When I capture someone, I tend to decide on what I am going to do with them from their RP. If the person provided solid, good skills of RP and was complying and everything, I let him go with some of his stuff. If the RP was "rambo-nofear-painisforpussies" then I tend to execute the person. But I say things like:

"Now, listen here bud. I am going to have to do something about you..." *Pulls out a bottle of chloroform and puts the bottle under the man's nose*

Or

*Uses the back of his weapon to knock the man out, cold.*

This is what I tend to do before executing someone, just giving it a tiny bit of RP at the end.

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The Clown    1

When I capture someone, I tend to decide on what I am going to do with them from their RP. If the person provided solid, good skills of RP and was complying and everything, I let him go with some of his stuff. If the RP was "rambo-nofear-painisforpussies" then I tend to execute the person. But I say things like:

"Now, listen here bud. I am going to have to do something about you..." *Pulls out a bottle of chloroform and puts the bottle under the man's nose*

Or

*Uses the back of his weapon to knock the man out, cold.*

This is what I tend to do before executing someone, just giving it a tiny bit of RP at the end.

I get where you coming from, I did and sometimes subconciously still do that too, but that's not RP.

You should base those decisions off what your character would do, not how you OOCly liked the person's RP. Besides, even a "nofear-painisforpussies" character can be RPed well.

I think people underestimate how many suicidal people would be around in a zombie apocalypse when they hate on that kind of attitude shown by characters.

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Red    138

-snip

In Toms case... I think he usually knows what to expect from groups at the point he meets them ingame since he was able to read about them for the three weeks of fourm-only activity since his last visit to Chernarus :)

To clarify, I wasn't pointing fingers. I do get his stance. I know it can be very frustrating to run into new players who think they can take on the world.

Doesn't BHM have an overall, no surrender policy though?

Never surrendering doesn't give the other player the opportunity to learn more about what's going on in an enemy group. My character often developed a sense of sympathy for an enemy, because he gets to know what drives them.

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The Clown    1

-snip

In Toms case... I think he usually knows what to expect from groups at the point he meets them ingame since he was able to read about them for the three weeks of fourm-only activity since his last visit to Chernarus :)

To clarify, I wasn't pointing fingers. I do get his stance. I know it can be very frustrating to run into new players who think they can take on the world.

Doesn't BHM have an overall, no surrender policy though?

Never surrendering doesn't give the other player the opportunity to learn more about what's going on in an enemy group. My character often developed a sense of sympathy for an enemy, because he gets to know what drives them.

No offense intended and none taken. My intention was to fire some shots in Tom's direction ;)

And yes, theoretically there is a no surrender policy. But I'm not the only member who doesn't really care. My character values his life more than anything else. If I don't see good chances of getting out alive I will always comply and seek revenge afterwards.

And I do agree with you. If I never complied there would be a lot less to my characters story and development than there is now. Actually, the probably most interesting story lines for John had their start by being taken hostage.

And yes, new groups / players usually don't have the routine that older members have come to expect. They might mess up a bit here and there, have less experience how to manage TS-comms and ingame RPing which can lead to awkward situations et cetera.

But it's not all bad. No routine means there might be something fresh to it, maybe even inspiring. I'd never just deny a possible RP situation because the clan in question doesn't have well known names on their roster.

Then again, if I actually have past bad experiences I might be more inclined to take risks than not.

I'll stop before I go off topic further though, just remembered this is about executions :P

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Guest   
Guest

When the patch came out I'd been executed twice in one day and since then I suppose you could say my playing time plummeted, it's a pain to get somewhere to RP or on the way somewhere to RP and I get initiated on. The RP is most likely great but I feel the people who executed me had a poor reason.

An execution should be an ask-for-permission-first kind of thing. Limit the executions people, it's stale for people on the receiving end!

I agree with your points that you've mentioned, 100%.

1. When do you feel you're in the right to execute your hostage? I like interaction, if executing someone meant that my interaction with them would be cut short then I'm not going to kill them, even if I had a very strong reason to.

2. Would your character have done so? Personally, my character wouldn't execute someone unless I was asked too on an OOC level, maybe that person would find it entertaining (in whatever way you find things entertaining) if I was the person to do the deed and kill off their character.

3. Why do you think it's so popular? As you said, an easy way out. People don't like having someone with KoS on them, so an execution is the easiest way to get that off your mind.

4. How can we improve/prevent this and do we want it to? Make it very strict with execution rights, make sure everyone is on the same level on an OOC standpoint so everyone knows the reason, if the victim thinks the reason is poor then they can open a discussion.

5. Are you against it? If so why? Oh yeah, I'm against it. I want to make sure the RP for my victim is fun, executing them isn't fun.

6. Do you execute people "often"? If so why? What's you're reasoning for doing so? I've never executed someone. I don't see myself executing anyone unless I was asked prior to the event, just so the victim gets the best possible experience out of the situation.

My thoughts on the matter.

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Owen    13

I think that executions should only occur if there ate multiple encounters and if you have a poor history with the individual. I have only been in a handful of executions in my time and the events leading up to it were tense. But executions should only be reserved for exceptional circumstances and not to send a message to people. Physical and mental torture is a good enough message to people.

So executions should have at least a good half an hour or more before the execution rather than shooting the person for failing to do an action or speaking bad. That are my thoughts on it.

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