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Server time (UTC): 2021-10-23 14:20

Loot Cycling - New rule or modification


Spotter

What do you think?  

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  • Emerald

I have a proposition for one more rule, and I have my reasons and arguments for it. The main argument being that this is a roleplaying server. Please don't hate me. Just tell me what you think.

New rule proposition: No more loot cycling/loot farming.

I'm not saying this as a complaint that people are overgeared. I'm saying this because it's one of the parts of DayZ I have always felt dirty about and considered it an exploit just as the new-life exploit and the combat log. Here are some main arguments:

1. It will encourage more traffic around the map. Players will be forced to move around from town to town to keep finding stuff to survive and thrive. Any clans that decide to call a town home will almost need vehicles to go loot other towns and come back. This will make the status of power and stability much more realistic.

2. It is an exploit. Whether we like it or not, it is a means to advance your character exploiting a way the game is coded, breaking authenticity and balance.

3. Dean "Rocket" Hall plans on removing it, anyway. "We are exploring spawning all zombies and loot at the start of server initialization, again a huge departure from the previous mechanism. This solves many design and technical issues with the spawning and respawning of equipment, such as being able to metagame by telling whether players are in a village by seeing zombie’s have spawned." (url=http://dayzdev.tumblr.com/]Link[/url] The team acknowledges it as an issue and that they want to remove it. Perhaps the server devs can implement this feature themselves (with loot, spawning all zombies would be a bit of a performance hog).

4. It'll up the value and coolness of items. Even just an AK with a sight will be cherished by the finder. Guns will be rarer, food will be more difficult to come by, and ammunition will become scarce, as it should be. This along with the implementation of the power generator to refill jerry cans will make vehicles very challenging to refuel, and make their usage more careful and intentional, instead of trolling the entire map in your GAZ or your LB even, looking for camps just because you can. The fuel is an entirely different issue that I'd love to discuss as well, which the DayZ dev team is also in favor of.

5. I feel this is a simulator, not a game. Therefore, it is unrealistic to loot cycle, and makes it more into any other MMO game where you stay in one place to make your guy super duper good and OP just because you put the time in. In DayZ, your gear will progress as a combination of how long you can stay alive, how often you play, and how skilled you are, instead of how patient you are doing a tedious task for 6 hours winding up with 60+ consumables, 40+ magazines and 10+ guns in a pile you could not care less about. Every small item should be precious in DayZ.

We could either make a rule about loot cycling or implement a loot spawn at server restart, and not at loot respawn timer. It's a sacrifice, for sure, but I think it'll make this game more challenging, more fun, and by limiting ourselves we will be more prepared when this is implemented in the SA, hopefully.

Tell me what you think!

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  • MVP

Loot spawning on a server restart basically means that the clans with vehicles get to it first. Loot it and leave nothing of much value. This would further increase the divide between larger clans and smaller groups/individuals in terms of items and load-out.

This at least gives people a chance to get something. Not to mention the fact that some people will never see a restart, depending on their hours of play.

I would not see this as a problem if some loot was set to spawn but in reality we do tend to get lots of cans and junk which I feel is close to what would be left anyway.

The other problem is what do you regard as loot cycling? Staying in an area for too long? How would this be proven? Its a daunting task trying to prevent that from happening. Looking at logs for it would be an absolute mess.

The thing is, the most popular loot cycle areas also have the highest amount of danger associated with them. Thus, acting as a deterrent of sorts.

Edit: Also change the poll to 'No' instead of 'Shut up Spotter'. Don't want to insult a business partner :P

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  • Legend

I regard loot spawning as an exploit. The way it currently works, new gear spawns in ten minutes after you leave a certain range of the spawn iirc. I'd be happy if we could set that timer to something like 30-40 minutes.

Rocket originally had loot spawn on restart with no subsequent respawns, but players objected that after a few hours there was nothing left to loot.

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  • Emerald

I see what you're saying, but I'm willing to bet that it would mean clans clean out things like supermarkets, barracks, etc. What clan would empty every house, barn, and shed?

And what's wrong with clans having more power than loners? Isn't that the point of the survival scenario? Would a single person realistically be able to obtain NVGs, DMR, etc.?

In terms of enacting the rule, as opposed to programming the difference, I would personally take it as a self-restriction. If such a rule was put into place, I personally wouldn't do it (which is rare enough as is). There are very few ways to restrict it without catching them red handed in-game. But even then, the places popular for loot cycling would be doubly dangerous for those who wish to loot cycle: you could put yourself in danger, and risk being reported if said rule was implemented.

Before we shoot down how it would be enforced, programmed, etc. I think we should decide if it would be good for gameplay, then good for balance, then whether or not it can be done.

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My vote: Ban loot cycling.

In other words, if you come up to a couple of players working a large loot pile then printscreen and report.

I dont think e.g removing tin cans from a supermarket full of them should count as cycling.

But powerlooting places like stary, where you sometimes find 15+ endgame primaries in a pile should be a reportable offence.

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  • MVP

I see what you're saying, but I'm willing to bet that it would mean clans clean out things like supermarkets, barracks, etc. What clan would empty every house, barn, and shed?

And what's wrong with clans having more power than loners? Isn't that the point of the survival scenario? Would a single person realistically be able to obtain NVGs, DMR, etc.?

In terms of enacting the rule, as opposed to programming the difference, I would personally take it as a self-restriction. If such a rule was put into place, I personally wouldn't do it (which is rare enough as is). There are very few ways to restrict it without catching them red handed in-game. But even then, the places popular for loot cycling would be doubly dangerous for those who wish to loot cycle: you could put yourself in danger, and risk being reported if said rule was implemented.

Before we shoot down how it would be enforced, programmed, etc. I think we should decide if it would be good for gameplay, then good for balance, then whether or not it can be done.

Agreed mate you have good points. I just don't think the ideas mentioned were the solution to the problem.

I regard loot spawning as an exploit. The way it currently works, new gear spawns in ten minutes after you leave a certain range of the spawn iirc. I'd be happy if we could set that timer to something like 30-40 minutes.

Rocket originally had loot spawn on restart with no subsequent respawns, but players objected that after a few hours there was nothing left to loot.

Extending the respawn timer would be a much more preferable option.

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  • Legend

I agree that loot cycling is an exploit and by banning this, maybe we could get a little more fancy loot by the crash sites again as well to balance it up? :)

My vote: Ban loot cycling

We'd have to balance it by having more frequent restarts, which would mean more total crash sites.

My vote is to reduce the total number of crash sites per restart and restart more frequently. Rolle uses restarts to spawn in vehicles which is why restarts are all manual at this time, but there's really no reason we couldn't have some automated restarts with the caveat that during automated restarts, no vehicles will spawn.

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  • Emerald

I regard loot spawning as an exploit. The way it currently works, new gear spawns in ten minutes after you leave a certain range of the spawn iirc. I'd be happy if we could set that timer to something like 30-40 minutes.

Rocket originally had loot spawn on restart with no subsequent respawns, but players objected that after a few hours there was nothing left to loot.

Perhaps changing the timer would help! Something like 30 minutes-1 hour so that no one would stay in one place looting, forcing them to take on risks in order to survive, but not so much that players coming in later would be screwed?


I agree that loot cycling is an exploit and by banning this, maybe we could get a little more fancy loot by the crash sites again as well to balance it up? :)

My vote: Ban loot cycling

We'd have to balance it by having more frequent restarts, which would mean more total crash sites.

My vote is to reduce the total number of crash sites per restart and restart more frequently. Rolle uses restarts to spawn in vehicles which is why restarts are all manual at this time, but there's really no reason we couldn't have some automated restarts with the caveat that during automated restarts, no vehicles will spawn.

Perhaps set a schedule of restarts every four hours, and Rolle can say which ones will be manual for this vehicle spawns.

Or hell, maybe even 3 hours with how rare everything is going to be.

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  • Legend

I would personally take it as a self-restriction. If such a rule was put into place, I personally wouldn't do it (which is rare enough as is). There are very few ways to restrict it without catching them red handed in-game. But even then, the places popular for loot cycling would be doubly dangerous for those who wish to loot cycle: you could put yourself in danger, and risk being reported if said rule was implemented.

Before we shoot down how it would be enforced, programmed, etc. I think we should decide if it would be good for gameplay, then good for balance, then whether or not it can be done.

Hahahahaha, you must be new here. (No offense mate, you know I <3 you)

There's no question it would be good for balance and gameplay. It's that there's no question that most of the people who play here would break that rule and damn the consequences.

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  • Emerald

Hahahahaha, you must be new here. (No offense mate, you know I <3 you)

There's no question it would be good for balance and gameplay. It's that there's no question that most of the people who play here would break that rule and damn the consequences.

That's a shame. Then perhaps we should focus on technical ways to resolve the issue.

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  • MVP

Hey... what about changing the respawn timer to a 30/45/60 minutes ?

I think it's possible to do so in upcoming mod, it would cut down issues with magical fast loot respawn, would make gear more valuable and there would be no need to report anyone.

I mean seriously, would you report someone who needs to wait 30mins for any gear to respawn again ? I would just rob the hell out of poor bastard :)

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  • Emerald

Hey... what about changing the respawn timer to a 30/45/60 minutes ?

I think it's possible to do so in upcoming mod, it would cut down issues with magical fast loot respawn, would make gear more valuable and there would be no need to report anyone.

I mean seriously, would you report someone who needs to wait 30mins for any gear to respawn again ? I would just rob the hell out of poor bastard :)

Well it looks like either the rule OR the technical implemention is the option. Not both. that would be absurd. I'm personally favoring just the reprogramming of loot timers and server restarts.

I disagree with that, though. I think the server restarts should be set around a the time of a single sitting that's still somewhat healthy (3-5 hours).

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  • MVP

Hey... what about changing the respawn timer to a 30/45/60 minutes ?

I think it's possible to do so in upcoming mod, it would cut down issues with magical fast loot respawn, would make gear more valuable and there would be no need to report anyone.

I mean seriously, would you report someone who needs to wait 30mins for any gear to respawn again ? I would just rob the hell out of poor bastard :)

Well it looks like either the rule OR the technical implemention is the option. Not both. that would be absurd. I'm personally favoring just the reprogramming of loot timers and server restarts.

I disagree with that, though. I think the server restarts should be set around a the time of a single sitting that's still somewhat healthy (3-5 hours).

Problem with the restarts is that it needs to be done manually iirc. More restarts is more work and plus the fact that on that schedule there will always need to be one admin on.

An extended timer is a much simpler option as this only needs to be changed in the code and not looked at again, unless they want to tweak it further. However, the problem is if it is a global timer for all spawns or you have to change specific spawn point's timers. If it is the latter I would look at only changing high-end timers to prevent loot farming in those places.

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ive always fought for this idea and my friends never really liked it only due to how easy it is to set up shop at one spawn location with a tent, and have everything you need with in an hour. a lot more difficult to roam and travel for stuff like this.

so many people want to play this game AS FAST AS POSSIBLE everything is a fucking rush in this game and i dont know why.... lol


should there be atleast 1 admin on at all times? we are over 4000 active members :x

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  • Emerald

Hey... what about changing the respawn timer to a 30/45/60 minutes ?

I think it's possible to do so in upcoming mod, it would cut down issues with magical fast loot respawn, would make gear more valuable and there would be no need to report anyone.

I mean seriously, would you report someone who needs to wait 30mins for any gear to respawn again ? I would just rob the hell out of poor bastard :)

Well it looks like either the rule OR the technical implemention is the option. Not both. that would be absurd. I'm personally favoring just the reprogramming of loot timers and server restarts.

I disagree with that, though. I think the server restarts should be set around a the time of a single sitting that's still somewhat healthy (3-5 hours).

Problem with the restarts is that it needs to be done manually iirc. More restarts is more work and plus the fact that on that schedule there will always need to be one admin on.

An extended timer is a much simpler option as this only needs to be changed in the code and not looked at again, unless they want to tweak it further. However, the problem is if it is a global timer for all spawns or you have to change specific spawn point's timers. If it is the latter I would look at only changing high-end timers to prevent loot farming in those places.

I heard after all the updates after the wipe Rolle will be able to do auto restarts. (i could be wrong)


ive always fought for this idea and my friends never really liked it only due to how easy it is to set up shop at one spawn location with a tent, and have everything you need with in an hour. a lot more difficult to roam and travel for stuff like this.

so many people want to play this game AS FAST AS POSSIBLE everything is a fucking rush in this game and i dont know why.... lol


should there be atleast 1 admin on at all times? we are over 4000 active members :x

Right? That's not the point! Your person should survive more than 4 days and you shouldn't just go around looking for action. there's so much more to the game than that. looting is just one example.

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  • MVP

To be fair restarts can go wrong but isn't it a little bit excessive to have a restart every 3 hours? You only need to do it to speed up the server. More restarts just cause more issues.

Not to mention the fact that there could potentially be times with no admin on. Its unlikely but its possible. If it can be automated, then wicked but automation also introduces more errors. I've seen it before on my own server with automatic restarts.

Whereas bumping up timers is a sensible and feasible option to be added in quickly.

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Hey... what about changing the respawn timer to a 30/45/60 minutes ?

I think it's possible to do so in upcoming mod, it would cut down issues with magical fast loot respawn, would make gear more valuable and there would be no need to report anyone.

I mean seriously, would you report someone who needs to wait 30mins for any gear to respawn again ? I would just rob the hell out of poor bastard :)

Well it looks like either the rule OR the technical implemention is the option. Not both. that would be absurd. I'm personally favoring just the reprogramming of loot timers and server restarts.

I disagree with that, though. I think the server restarts should be set around a the time of a single sitting that's still somewhat healthy (3-5 hours).

I think just making the respawn timer longer. At at least 1 hour, I think the practice of loot farming will basically be given up. What makes it so tempting right now is you get a full barracks worth of goodies every 5 - 10 minutes. Sitting there for an hour is basically along the same lines as waiting for a restart to happen.

At the very least, that would massively cut down on the amount of high-end gear out there. And, as others had said, just make it against the rules (it IS really a sort of exploit), but nothing too heavy. Just little things to help discourage it, I think, and it'll fade in favor of driving around looking for crashes/geared people to rob.

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  • Emerald

Hey... what about changing the respawn timer to a 30/45/60 minutes ?

I think it's possible to do so in upcoming mod, it would cut down issues with magical fast loot respawn, would make gear more valuable and there would be no need to report anyone.

I mean seriously, would you report someone who needs to wait 30mins for any gear to respawn again ? I would just rob the hell out of poor bastard :)

Well it looks like either the rule OR the technical implemention is the option. Not both. that would be absurd. I'm personally favoring just the reprogramming of loot timers and server restarts.

I disagree with that, though. I think the server restarts should be set around a the time of a single sitting that's still somewhat healthy (3-5 hours).

I think just making the respawn timer longer. At at least 1 hour, I think the practice of loot farming will basically be given up. What makes it so tempting right now is you get a full barracks worth of goodies every 5 - 10 minutes. Sitting there for an hour is basically along the same lines as waiting for a restart to happen.

At the very least, that would massively cut down on the amount of high-end gear out there. And, as others had said, just make it against the rules (it IS really a sort of exploit), but nothing too heavy. Just little things to help discourage it, I think, and it'll fade in favor of driving around looking for crashes/geared people to rob.

Looks like it's a favor for changing the loot timer. I'll talk to Jamie or someone about implementing it on test server or something.

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Guest Master Microwave

Loot spawning on a server restart basically means that the clans with vehicles get to it first. Loot it and leave nothing of much value. This would further increase the divide between larger clans and smaller groups/individuals in terms of items and load-out.

This at least gives people a chance to get something. Not to mention the fact that some people will never see a restart, depending on their hours of play.

I would not see this as a problem if some loot was set to spawn but in reality we do tend to get lots of cans and junk which I feel is close to what would be left anyway.

The other problem is what do you regard as loot cycling? Staying in an area for too long? How would this be proven? Its a daunting task trying to prevent that from happening. Looking at logs for it would be an absolute mess.

The thing is, the most popular loot cycle areas also have the highest amount of danger associated with them. Thus, acting as a deterrent of sorts.

Edit: Also change the poll to 'No' instead of 'Shut up Spotter'. Don't want to insult a business partner :P

I'd have to agree. Loot spawning when the server restarts would be completely unfair to lone wolves or vehicle-less players.

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Western weapons will not be able to be loot cycled (heli crashes) So all you will get from barracks are the Russian weps, i believe we could make the timer longer and could experiment over the next couple days on Test Server. Will keep you posted ;)

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