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Server time (UTC): 2021-09-24 06:02

Are I allowed to kill robbers that tries to rob me?


Guest renen2001

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Guest renen2001

I am sorry if this have been talked about before in a thread, but I just want to know.

If someone says drop your guns on the ground (as if they are trying to rob me), are I allowed to kill them as soon as they have said it, or do I have to do something first? I didn’t understand this in the rules and it could be good to know.

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  • VIP

Yeah, you're allowed to. As long as they are demanding you to do to it, and not just asking politely, then this is a hostile action and grants you KOS rights for 2 hours. However, you could also comply and get some good RP out of it. Up to you though.

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  • MVP

Only if they state a consequence. So 'drop your guns or you will be shot' is a direct threat and therefore you gain KoS rights. However they can shoot you if you do not comply and you may miss out on some great RP if you take the chance to kill them. If they just say 'drop your guns' and do not state a consequence then neither of you have KoS rights as it is not a direct threat, just a request.

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Only if they state a consequence. So 'drop your guns or you will be shot' is a direct threat and therefore you gain KoS rights. However they can shoot you if you do not comply and you may miss out on some great RP if you take the chance to kill them. If they just say 'drop your guns' and do not state a consequence then neither of you have KoS rights.

No, once someone says drop your weapons you can open fire straight away. He doesn't need to state a consequence.

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Guest renen2001

Ok, thanks :)

I have been robbed a couple of times, and sure have I got great RP from it, but sometimes people don’t do so good RP, and then it could be good with a plan B.

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  • MVP

Only if they state a consequence. So 'drop your guns or you will be shot' is a direct threat and therefore you gain KoS rights. However they can shoot you if you do not comply and you may miss out on some great RP if you take the chance to kill them. If they just say 'drop your guns' and do not state a consequence then neither of you have KoS rights.

No, once someone says drop your weapons you can open fire straight away. He doesn't need to state a consequence.

Apologies I always though a consequence needs to be stated...saying drop your guns isn't a threat. You therefore do not need to comply. If I'm wrong thanks for the education. However that was my interpretation of the rules.

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Only if they state a consequence. So 'drop your guns or you will be shot' is a direct threat and therefore you gain KoS rights. However they can shoot you if you do not comply and you may miss out on some great RP if you take the chance to kill them. If they just say 'drop your guns' and do not state a consequence then neither of you have KoS rights.

No, once someone says drop your weapons you can open fire straight away. He doesn't need to state a consequence.

Apologies I always though a consequence needs to be stated...saying drop your guns isn't a threat. You therefore do not need to comply. If I'm wrong thanks for the education.

What I am trying to say is that if he only says drop your weapons he doesn't get KOS but the victim does.

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  • Legend

Also remember that if you are clearly outnumbered and outgunned, it could be seen as "No value for life" if its pretty clear that you cannot survive from it.

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Sometimes the robber can forget to state 'or i shoot'

some examples

*hostile tone* Drop your fucking weapon .... (allowed to kill him)

*calm tone* how about you put your weapon down I don't like you pointing at me. (don't shoot him, but aim at him cause he might continue and state 'or i shoot').

obiously its all about how you rp it out. Complying is sometimes smarter.

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  • Legend

What I am trying to say is that if he only says drop your weapons he doesn't get KOS but the victim does.

KoS rights are generally a two-way street. If I can kill you, you can kill me.

It takes very special circumstances to change this condition - for example, someone robs you successfully in Electro, you now have KoS rights on them. They've told you to run toward Cherno and not to return to Electro. You break their line of sight, find a weapon in a barn and decide to return to their location for some sweet revenge. Obviously, the bandit has KoS rights on you if he sees you in the area, since you're not complying to his demands. After all, you can kill him, so he can kill you. However, in the meantime, the bandit has changed his skin, in order to fool you into thinking he's someone else. Now the bandit no longer has KoS rights on you (because it's so hard to ID people by facial recognition in Arma - skins are the primary identifier), but if you can absolutely determine that he's the guy who robbed you, you still have KoS rights on him. Obviously, you need to be sure he's your man at the risk of getting banned yourself for KoS if you get the wrong guy.

And yeah, the bandit has to make his hostile intentions clear before you can open fire on him. Sometimes, tone of voice is enough to establish intent, but it's best to have video evidence backing you up in such cases, otherwise it could end up a word vs. word type situation that might not end well for you.

Most often it's best to comply and seek revenge later, or simply beg for mercy. Some bandits actually leave you in better shape than they found you, depending on your reaction to them and their ability to provide at the time. It's often a lot more fun to talk your way out of a situation than it is to shoot your way out.

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Guest johnygt7

Also remember that if you are clearly outnumbered and outgunned, it could be seen as "No value for life" if its pretty clear that you cannot survive from it.

No? No value for life would be him initiating on ten people for eg.

He has the right to shoot at them even if they are 5 people fully geared with LMGS and i don't think that would be no value for life, as he has the right to protect himshelf.

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Also remember that if you are clearly outnumbered and outgunned, it could be seen as "No value for life" if its pretty clear that you cannot survive from it.

No? No value for life would be him initiating on ten people for eg.

He has the right to shoot at them even if they are 5 people fully geared with LMGS and i don't think that would be no value for life, as he has the right to protect himshelf.

Protect himself from what? Losing his weapon. Gina is perfectly right in this case. You're in a barn, alone and 7 people come running in all fully geared and blocking the entrances. You telling me that this wouldn't be no value for life?

If he has no chance of surviving, then clearly he's doing it just for his weapon. The only time I can see this not being a rule break is if the people robbing him are an enemy clan and probably going to execute him. Therefore he has two options, certain death or probably death.

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Guest Whazmeister

Also remember that if you are clearly outnumbered and outgunned, it could be seen as "No value for life" if its pretty clear that you cannot survive from it.

No? No value for life would be him initiating on ten people for eg.

He has the right to shoot at them even if they are 5 people fully geared with LMGS and i don't think that would be no value for life, as he has the right to protect himshelf.

Protect himself from what? Losing his weapon. Gina is perfectly right in this case. You're in a barn, alone and 7 people come running in all fully geared and blocking the entrances. You telling me that this wouldn't be no value for life?

Well, it's situational. But it would be kind of unfair if there's a bandit group that always plays with at least 8 people and rob civilians that are forced to comply, because they would be breaking the rules if they didn't...

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No? No value for life would be him initiating on ten people for eg.

He has the right to shoot at them even if they are 5 people fully geared with LMGS and i don't think that would be no value for life, as he has the right to protect himshelf.

Protect himself from what? Losing his weapon. Gina is perfectly right in this case. You're in a barn, alone and 7 people come running in all fully geared and blocking the entrances. You telling me that this wouldn't be no value for life?

Well, it's situational. But it would be kind of unfair if there's a bandit group that always plays with at least 8 people and rob civilians that are forced to comply, because they would be breaking the rules if they didn't...

Like I said, circumstances. If they manage to trap every civvie they meet in a situation like above, then these civs must be doing something wrong :P

But I see what you're saying, I did edit post too :D

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Guest johnygt7

No? No value for life would be him initiating on ten people for eg.

He has the right to shoot at them even if they are 5 people fully geared with LMGS and i don't think that would be no value for life, as he has the right to protect himshelf.

Protect himself from what? Losing his weapon. Gina is perfectly right in this case. You're in a barn, alone and 7 people come running in all fully geared and blocking the entrances. You telling me that this wouldn't be no value for life?

Well, it's situational. But it would be kind of unfair if there's a bandit group that always plays with at least 8 people and rob civilians that are forced to comply, because they would be breaking the rules if they didn't...

I do agree with Morris.

Personally i would not comply even if i was in a barn pinned down.I'd try to kill one or two and then make a run for it.If i die so be it :P .Burgz you know that i personally, don't care about my weapon!

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Ive always wondered, if i get robbed by someone in Cherno and they take me a little out of town to interrogate me and they say: Now, im gonna let you go, but if i see you in Cherno again im going to kill you!

Is this actually legit, can you really force someone to stay out of a town and gain KOS on them if they do return? Because who knows where the border of ¨Cherno¨ is.. Etc

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  • Legend

Well, it's situational. But it would be kind of unfair if there's a bandit group that always plays with at least 8 people and rob civilians that are forced to comply, because they would be breaking the rules if they didn't...

I am aware that we do not have this kind of rule, but I am going to use it for example anyway :) There are servers with rules (not necessarily DayZ mod) which states that if you are outnumbered for example 1vs3 or more, you have to comply. Because it doesn't make any sense for the victim to even try to fight alone against those. Unless of course you can reasonably explain that your actions were because you are suicidal or that you genuinely cared more of your belongings than your life.

You call it unfair if a group of 8 are going around robbing lonely civilians? Of course it is unfair but it still doesn't justify that lonely civilian to just throw his life away because he feels like Rambo.

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  • MVP

'No value for life' can really be a tricky subject, in my mind it is a charge that is thrown around far too often. We have rarely punished for it, as it would have to be a really obvious mis-match to merit punishment. From a survivors standpoint, losing your weapon at gunpoint is entrusting your life fully to your captors, and I can't think of anyone that I would trust with my life, much less a stranger. Here we have rules that protect a compliant victim, but people should still be aware of how truely dangerous it is to demand someone disarm themselves in this apocalyptic setting.

Take out the Arma bugs, and picture it: Zombies that run as fast as you do (even inside buildings), animals that won't let you get nearly close enough to kill with a melee weapon, and armed bandits roaming the land. Asking someone to surrender their weapon? Might as well ask them to put a bullet in their own head. :D

Of course this is a game, with limitations, both rules-wise and engine-wise. But I like to play as if zombies and starvation are my foes, and not Hostile Bandit group #23478.

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  • Emerald

I would like to add to this discussion that if you are told by a Camp Representative, such as a CTC member at their camp (in the case of CTC it would be Trade Post) you do NOT gain rights to kill the man who is telling you to drop your weapons.

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  • Legend

Ive always wondered, if i get robbed by someone in Cherno and they take me a little out of town to interrogate me and they say: Now, im gonna let you go, but if i see you in Cherno again im going to kill you!

Is this actually legit, can you really force someone to stay out of a town and gain KOS on them if they do return? Because who knows where the border of ¨Cherno¨ is.. Etc

Yes, this is a thing. It's pretty standard procedure for a lot of groups.

If you're told to get out of Cherno, get out. Get well away. There's plenty of other places to go. If you're in such a condition that you might not survive the trip, by all means, let your robbers know. It's in their interest to keep you alive - after all, you do the hard work of filtering out the good gear from the bad, at least until the next time they show up to collect it from you. If you're low on health/food/water, the bandits are obligated (by the rules, even) to provide you with enough to give you a reasonable chance to survive the trip to the nearest loot spawn.

KoS rights have a two hour time limit, so after that time you're free to return to Cherno, but in the mean time, you should make haste for Balota, Electro, or Zub castle/Mogilevka.

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  • Legend

I think this should be marked as Solved ;)

But in the meanwhile lets here the rest of the opinions of the matter as the main question has been solved ;)

/solved but open for discussion

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