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Server time (UTC): 2021-10-21 02:53

Regarding "firefights"


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This is me again, wanting to get clear on some interpretations of rules, looking for admin consensus :D.

The situation I'm wondering about this time is this: Group A is at whatever location. They engage (for whatever reason) another group, or individual. That individual fires back, maybe there's 2 of them, or more. Either way, a 'firefight' ensues.

Now, what I'm wondering is whether at that point it is okay for either group to shoot anyone they have not ID'd on sight without contact. There are a lot of situations I've seen lately where someone kills some player, then sees someone they don't know and opens up without IDing them, perceiving them as a threat.

I had thought that the interpretation of the rules stated basically that that is okay, however if the person you kill happens to be innocent, you will face standard KoS punishment, thus making it very important for people to ID their targets. Is this not the case? In the event of any kind of hostile engagement, is it then open KoS rights for everyone involved, and just bad luck for everyone who wanders near?

Again this is to get an official clarification on the rules, not to invite a flame war or angry points of view from either side. I'm genuinely curious to find out every situation in which one can expect (or engage in) a KoS, so that I can avoid them.

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Its a topic that you cant really make a rule on, you cant just say "you're not aloud in a firefight if you are not involved". That would hinder RP and some firefights drag out over long periods of time and shots are only fired every 10 minutes or so. Innocent people get KoS'd because when you're armed and in the area of a firefight you are seen as a danger to both partys having the firefight.

If the firefight is in a high populated area then yes you must be carely on who you are shooting, but if you do get killed because you are in a firefight zone chances are you either heard gun shots and tried moving closer to get a better look which is totally normal and results in most deaths. Or you log right in on top of it and get shot soon later.

In most cases jGMS/GMS and admins are normally forgiving towards the partys in the firefight if they accidently killed someone not involved, but if no shots are fired for a while you must start IDing targets more carefully. A lot of these reports result in the innocent player getting his gear back by the party that killed him.

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Yes, and I, for one, always run the other direction when I hear shots (unless it's someone clearly picking off zombies, and even then it's a worrisome thing).

However, as Jerry and others have said, sometimes in firefights there is a long gap with no one firing a shot. In those situations, or if someone is driving a car, or has their sound down or anything, innocents can unknowingly wander in.

I'm mostly wondering where the rules stand on this, and whether indiscriminately killing any unidentified survivors is legitimate because of the tense situation, or not.

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  • Emerald

I see what you mean, its a question of how to enforce it though, because confirming targets can be impossible when your life is in danger.

Then again there should be a punishment. Probably a 1 day ban or along those lines for recklesness but not KOS with intent.

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  • Emerald

Perhaps they should disable the KOS rule when a firefight that has for example three or more people involved.

and when the firefight is well under way newcomers who decide to enter the area won't have any rights to place a KOS Report.

maybe something like this, but then again it would be near impossible to establish such rules... :P

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Actually, Rolle answered my question in another thread:

Clarification: No such thing as a "firefight" exists in the rules that allows you to kill other players. It does not matter if they heard the shots in the area or not - it's not the player's job to figure out that someone is having a "firefight" in the area. You still have to confirm your targets and/or make contact at all times.

That was basically all I was wondering, that was the gist I'd gotten before but never seen explicitly stated.

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Nice to know, as lately this "You-can-KOS-in-a-Firefight" rumor has been spreading around, and got me a tad worried.

As I've almost fallen victim, and my friends have fallen victim to theese KOS firefights recently.

Now lets not be completely over the top.

Sure, you can not KoS people in a firefight, simply you being in a firefight does not make it okay for you to shoot everyone. However, if you're aware of a firefight, don't just charge into it because "It's against the rules to kill you"

With every rule, we expect you to use a little common sense.

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  • MVP

Nice to know, as lately this "You-can-KOS-in-a-Firefight" rumor has been spreading around, and got me a tad worried.

As I've almost fallen victim, and my friends have fallen victim to theese KOS firefights recently.

Now lets not be completely over the top.

Sure, you can not KoS people in a firefight, simply you being in a firefight does not make it okay for you to shoot everyone. However, if you're aware of a firefight, don't just charge into it because "It's against the rules to kill you"

With every rule, we expect you to use a little common sense.

Also This, GMs and Admins know the difference between someone who was just killing everyone in an area because of a "firefight" and someone who was returning fire and some carebear came runing through the line of fire thinking the rules would protect him.

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  • MVP

This is a major flaw within the rules.

The KOS rules is the most important thing we have on DayzRP.

But yet, as the Stary Sobor event there was over 20 people involved in this firefight.

and ONE guy gets killed who wasn't apart of it.

This resulted in one of our guys got perm-banned.

Ha had some strikes on him, thats why he got banned. But it´s almost this what happens whenever a clan member is KOSing.

I bet noone in a big clan is KOS with meaning.

It´s always a misunderstanding and shouldn´t end up with anyone being banned.

I will say this again.

We don´t want more rules.

We want LESS rules so the Admins/GMs can actually make a judgement of every unique situation. Not just LOOK for the specific event within the rules.

Vote for LESS, more simply rules here: http://www.dayzrp.com/t-server-rules-overhaul

In this very Stary event, one of our guys got shot from the area we saw these other guys(who were not involved) We had our cars parked there so yes, we got panic and shot them.

But as soon we saw the report we realized they wasn´t apart of the firefight and we stopped shoot at them.

Also this is a misunderstanding and we could have solved this without having one of our members perma banned.

/Tp

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  • Emerald

People should be more forgiving, less getting the guy who killed banned please. Chek the shoutbox and ask who did it. Then ask him why in the pm's. Maybe you can solve it like adults.

Definitely in firefights but outside of that i don't see the need for any less strictness with KOS rules

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  • MVP

People should be more forgiving, less getting the guy who killed banned please. Chek the shoutbox and ask who did it. Then ask him why in the pm's. Maybe you can solve it like adults.

Definitely in firefights but outside of that i don't see the need for any less strictness with KOS rules

Agreed. Firefights are confusing and that is why they are trying to take everything into account in reports and their decisions.

A lot of people being butthurt making false reports is not helping.

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  • MVP

Isn´t that maybe a good idea?

To implement in the report forum like: Have you tried to contact the guy who shot you?

Atleast shout out in the SB asking who it was?

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  • MVP

Isn´t that maybe a good idea?

To implement in the report forum like: Have you tried to contact the guy who shot you?

Atleast shout out in the SB asking who it was?

This could be a good idea.

Don't add a rule. Just add in a clause into the report form saying "Have you attempted to contact your killer? Please try to make contact to see if a misunderstanding has taken place".

I don't think the burden of making contact should be on the victim of a kos. I think that's what we've been getting at. But then again this probably isn't aimed at me and is for false reporters.

Valid point Jefim but this could cut down on a lot of report clutter.

I personally would want to know everything that happened before I put up a report just so I could confirm my suspicions if it could have been a KoS.

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  • MVP

Isn´t that maybe a good idea?

To implement in the report forum like: Have you tried to contact the guy who shot you?

Atleast shout out in the SB asking who it was?

I fully support this. Often people don't want to fill in report or are not sure if they got killed by a allowed person to do so. They may ask in shout but it's not the most effective way to do it, and when they do it via report then it turns out that raport needs to be closed later as it got explained.

Opening a subforum where people who got killed may ask openly who killed them is good idea. GMs could then post the log and close the thread afterwards to avoid any possible flames. Victim after receiving the log could via PM talk with killer to sort it out among themselves or just verify if report is a good next step to solve the issue.

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  • MVP

Isn´t that maybe a good idea?

To implement in the report forum like: Have you tried to contact the guy who shot you?

Atleast shout out in the SB asking who it was?

I fully support this. Often people don't want to fill in report or are not sure if they got killed by a allowed person to do so. They may ask in shout but it's not the most effective way to do it, and when they do it via report then it turns out that raport needs to be closed later as it got explained.

Opening a subforum where people who got killed may ask openly who killed them is good idea. GMs could then post the log and close the thread afterwards to avoid any possible flames. Victim after receiving the log could via PM talk with killer to sort it out among themselves or just verify if report is a good next step to solve the issue.

Wouldn't that just turn into a 'who-killed'who' forum?

I can see that devolving into people just wanting to see logs.

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  • MVP

Isn´t that maybe a good idea?

To implement in the report forum like: Have you tried to contact the guy who shot you?

Atleast shout out in the SB asking who it was?

I fully support this. Often people don't want to fill in report or are not sure if they got killed by a allowed person to do so. They may ask in shout but it's not the most effective way to do it, and when they do it via report then it turns out that raport needs to be closed later as it got explained.

Opening a subforum where people who got killed may ask openly who killed them is good idea. GMs could then post the log and close the thread afterwards to avoid any possible flames. Victim after receiving the log could via PM talk with killer to sort it out among themselves or just verify if report is a good next step to solve the issue.

Wouldn't that just turn into a 'who-killed'who' forum?

I can see that devolving into people just wanting to see logs.

You would need some sort of explanation to get the log..

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  • MVP

I see the risk, but the only reason to ask for logs would be if you have died. GMs would only post the log of death. Asking for kill logs wont be allowed and simply not handed out.

But you got the point, maybe Im too galiuble with my faith that people would only ask when neccesry :)

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