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BigLittleShōrts

Finding it hard to want to play anymore.

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This thread is not a leaving thread or any nonsense like that, it's simply an accumulation of frustrations that I feel right now when I look at the mod/community right now.

Firstly I'm not going to say the usual 'the community has gone down hill' etc because I genuinely don't believe that to be true but I think there have been many decisions made by staff about the direction of this mod that has made it lose it's uniqueness for me.

The main reason for this has been the introduction of the Council & CTC and the story arc that I feel personally has been forced onto the community. It's no disrespect to you personally Tomeran but I feel that having a whole narrative now becoming ever more unavoidable in-game has made this all feel like a badly written, cliched video game that I can't escape.

The one redeeming quality of this whole mod for me was that there was a freedom to role-play. It's something I had concerns about losing when the position of Loremaster was first created. I trust (more a less) the ability of staff to make an un-biased opinion when it comes to solving reports and implementing rules but I don't trust their ability to create a compelling story that the whole server then has to follow. With an extremely rigid and defined story arc taking over the mod I just don't find my experience of hearing 'The Council done this . . . ' or 'The CTC have done that . . .' to be even remotely compelling. Previously if you didn't find the story of an individual compelling, you could refute their story/information about happenings but because the Council and CTC are so engrained into people's minds now due to the enforcement of this story arc (both IC but mostly OOC), it's impossible to ignore the whole story that I find incredibly cliched.

The basic lore was great as it allowed a timeline to be formed and the distinct lack of detail was a great thing. It allowed for imagination and creativity to thrive because people would fill in the gaps of the story with their own piece of history. If that conflicted with other groups/people's stories, for example if a group from the UK stated in-game "London fell to the infection" yet a lone survivor thought the opposite then it would create interesting role-play discussions and conflicts. Now it seems that everyone knows precisely what's going on all the time. Everyone is in the know and everyone is completely and utterly sure of how things exactly took place. To me, talk of 'what happened' has become stale because it was made fact. In the same way that the Council and CTC presence can never be ignored because they have become fact, undeniable truths and unavoidable.

I'm not bashing you personally Tomeran, I'm simply against the idea of one man being in charge of the story. The events you created were obviously popular but I liked the fact that they were optional, it was roleplay that felt unique to those who chose to attend. That's the key word for me, choice. Right now, it feels that when I play I have lost that freedom of choice in a roleplay sense.

Lastly I think one of my biggest gripes right now from experience has been the clan interactions with most groups. While being in the Doragonzu I've noticed that almost every meeting with groups results in a 'who can create the biggest circle around each other' as members just slowly back away to try and get the upper hand. The roleplay is then nullified and then one remaining member from each clan just stands there as bait to a 'who will initiate first' competition before the massacre begins. For me, it's probably the most boring and inevitable part of roleplaying in a clan when faced with more aggressive groups. We as the Doragonzu have repeatedly tried to avoid these scenarios from happening but it happens all too often. The only clan we have had some really interesting yet aggressive encounters with of late were the VGC where we managed to take their men hostage once or twice and create some random scenarios.

However in general It turns out that interestingly written political ideals and agendas are not the most important aspect of being in a clan, it's just making sure you have 'Turbo' enabled to run faster than the other guy so you can never be 'out-circled'. It seems that a lot people joins clans simply do so to engage in hostilities and to me it's a shame. I for example joined the Doragonzu for one thing. Role-play. Not to be the 'biggest force' and increase the size of my e-ego like so many seem to do. I just hope that there will be a maturing attitude towards 'bandit' roleplay that will just create more interesting scenarios than are currently happening.

TL;DR - Meh

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Rolle    2456

TL;DR - Meh

I agree, but we will never be able to satisfy everyone. As long as we have unique 200+ players daily I think we're doing good job on varying and improving the community and the role playing experience, even if a few individuals disagree about some of the decisions.

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Guest JMS   
Guest JMS

I agree with the whole created story for us all to follow part and points you brought up. But as Rolle said you can't please everyone.

Also about the groups down to a 1V1 bait thing yes that happens on multiple occasions but what can you do to solve it really ?

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Guest   
Guest

I have to agree I am also finding it very hard to want to log in.

And some of the points you have made are spot on in my opinion.

The clan thing you mentioned is one of the worst things in my opinion there is no clan to clan RP anymore (except in the TP) it is as you said "who is going to initiate first" or the clan you are trying to RP with just turns around and "Turbos" away as they believe they are going to be initiated on by everybody and that is really really boring...

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Dowsey    0

Have you considered starting your own clan / group? One that roleplays the way you want. That way you can still have the roleplay aspect that you want, with a group of people that you've picked based on their rp ability. Idk, it might take your focus off of the CTC and the Council, and turn it towards your group and the RP of the group.

Just a thought.

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Tamaster92    14

I actually agree somewhat have focused on adding plenty of things that will hopefully help further RP and provide new RP opportunities in the upcoming patch.

New guns are cool and all (really cool sometimes) but the new locations, new animations, better medical systems. Stuff like that will help increase the quality of roleplay and give new places to explore and wonder about, places with no defined lore yet.

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I actually had (and still have to a lesser extent) the same concern about the focus on an over arching story line not linked with the survivors themselves.

I was quite adamant to not encourage any interaction with CTC, Council and CDF forces. However, I see what Tomeran is striving towards and after discussions I myself have caught his enthusiasm.

For me now, it is not a matter of how the story line fits around my character or group but instead how I can fit in with the arching story line. It is something I learned to accept while playing a ghost as a TCP member. If anything it has made me even more open minded than before.

One thing that springs to mind is the insistence of the Dragons on going after the CTC and the whole drama that ensued afterwards. I can see that as the Dragons trying to add to their role play and become more involved in the current story. I can see the reasoning but the consequences and repercussions for the CTC's goals would have been too dire. I for one had aspirations to do similar and spread dissent but after realizing that the staff's goal was to provide this one bastion of solidarity I had to move away from those plans as well.

Honestly, Matt, I urge you to maybe give it another shot. Chat with Tomeran and try let his enthusiasm speak for itself in describing what he wants to achieve to foster our memories here. I don't agree with all of his choices, of course not and nor should you but that is hardly a major issue as long as we have people that aspire to make things better any way they can.

Another thing, perhaps it is time for the Dragons to change their story drastically to freshen things up? Many have made sacrifices to stay relevant and I think it might be time for you guys too.

I disagree with the clan to clan role play. I see it happening and we do what we can to push beyond the eventual initiations.

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Oldman    22

I like this thread, but I do like the CTC and Council. I just wish their powergaming would come to a halt. Soon?? maybe??

Also I like being in SDS for many reasons, but one is the fact that the rp lore about the place is not written and that we come up with it on the spot in game. It leaves room to an intersting improv rp. To be honest I don't know that much about lore and why would I. I play as a Somalian that was prisoner on Utes Island blocked from everything what happend in the world so I would not even know what happend everywhere and I would believe everybody if they would tell me that Russia is doing perfectly fine or has turned to ashes.

Maybe Somalia is doing perfectly fine afterall have you seen a dark skinned zombie? No! So maybe the pigment of your skin is related to the deseace. Maybe my character believes that. If then someone comes in and powergames me his information about Africa gone to hell.. well yeah nothing to say then. This is just a weird example my character is not pigment obsessed he is only obsessed about chewing qat.

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Guest magw33d   
Guest magw33d

Well, I was going to create a long drawn-out thread myself but it seems you have beaten me to it Matt.

The most obvious problem to me, along with what you have said, is that there is an awful lot of metagaming going on. The idea of the lore is that you give people a backing to base their character on, but the problem it then presents is that this gives players an all encompassing knowledge of events. It's up to people to choose how much information they know from the beginning of a character, and I think part of the problem is that players aren't giving themselves a realistic outlook. Not only this, but I like to think that what my character sees, hears and does in-game, is the only information that I can play with. It wasn't too long ago I kept long lists of information that Masao Baba knew, just to keep track of his memory- but I gave up on this a while ago.

Myself and Shakya have always made sure that we progress Teikoku Doragonzu using only in-game information. It wasn't until the implementation of the Trade Post that we were fully aware of the CTC and it's methods. The involvement of the CTC and Council ingame before the Trade Post was minimal. If we base everything of knowledge on in-game information then this all-encompassing super power has minimal influence over the game. Because it is player led it can't have a huge impact on our characters simply because there is not enough time in the day to exert this level of activity.

The reason I believe, that the current lore is detrimental to the development of roleplay, and it's integrity is that it goes against the sandbox nature that DayZRP has always had- that you are free to create a narrative for your character and the world shapes itself on your actions. The freedom to create your own story and leave an impact on the server is what is unique about DayZRP over any other way of playing the game. If we are chained to in-game events and a developing storyline then it goes against this.

I actually agree somewhat have focused on adding plenty of things that will hopefully help further RP and provide new RP opportunities in the upcoming patch.

New guns are cool and all (really cool sometimes) but the new locations, new animations, better medical systems. Stuff like that will help increase the quality of roleplay and give new places to explore and wonder about, places with no defined lore yet.

Wheres that Katana sonny? ;)

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KpopKilla    67

I don't really mind the story arc, but then again I lost interest in the CTC/Council war and took to hiding in the far north. What bothers me about the lore is I'm not whether I'm allowed to make my own about my character. Shang Wei is from Taiwan and I would love to tell a story about how mainland China took advantage of the infection and launched a invasion of Taiwan in the early days. With the existing lore though I'm not sure whether telling stories like this would be appropriate. On the subject of the clan placement it would be nice to see some better clan RP. Groups need to remember it's not about the gear. You can gear up pretty fast in this game and the fact this is arma means you are not a bullet sponge like Battleield. A enfield is just a deadly as a DMR in the right hands.

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Tamaster92    14

I actually agree somewhat have focused on adding plenty of things that will hopefully help further RP and provide new RP opportunities in the upcoming patch.

New guns are cool and all (really cool sometimes) but the new locations, new animations, better medical systems. Stuff like that will help increase the quality of roleplay and give new places to explore and wonder about, places with no defined lore yet.

Wheres that Katana sonny? ;)

Why do you think we need a modeller :D

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-snip to keep this post relatively short-

I understand and respect the position you have to take to maintain player activity etc. I guess I'm just personally disinterested by the current situation of the mod with the story arc. It's probably the one time now that I would be open to an idea I was staunchly against, going back to 'Day One' of the infection. At least then there would be a chance of no CTC and Council.

Also about the groups down to a 1V1 bait thing yes that happens on multiple occasions but what can you do to solve it really ?

It comes down to two things for me, value for life and humility. They're the two biggest re-occurring problems with most games of this type. When you can respawn moments after death and just start again, it gives players an easy way out of situations. Obviously no change can be made there. The only real change that can happen is the change in some people's attitude towards this mod. To be humble and give over control of a situation to someone is a quality severely lacking in this community. Having humility allows you to enjoy other people's role-play and be immersed by what they have to offer instead of always thinking 'how can I get the upper hand so he doesn't kill me and get my gun'. Unfortunately the latter is the most common occurrence which results in a general lack of value for life.

-snip to keep this post relatively short-

I did do that once, way back when with Krimbo. http://www.dayzrp.com/t-wilderness-television-wtv

We did precisely that, picked other members purely based upon their RP ability. It was great. However I can't really dedicate the time to doing such things now and with the minimal amount of time I have to play games in general now because of IRL things, I want to be able to have those interesting encounters that don't revolve around the mentioning of the Council and CTC. Unfortunately the only place to find people within an hour of play time is the trade post and that of course negates the Council and CTC argument here. I've been playing on some alts there but it just becomes stale for me.

-snip-

I hope that the new patch will bring about a better map spread and just some more interesting RP than is currently on offer. Saw the trailer, it looks like a heck of a lot of work has gone into it. Look forward to trying it out.

-snip-

I can agree with a lot of what you said but I think with regards to the Doragonzu I have to disagree somewhat. The CTC drama was a mess, both sides handled it badly and I think that's all past us now. However when Shakya first brought back the Doragonzu we had changed pretty drastically. We robbed one person in the first 4 months or so and were generally friendly to most people unless they were extremely insulting/racist. I think Shakya had a general progression to the clan that was ideologically sound and made for some really interesting role-play in the server. That was all put to a stop pretty abruptly and I understand why but at the time, we didn't have a plan B.

Obviously we need to come up with some more ideas to become active again and I don't think any drastic changes are needed. We've simply lacked the motivation to want to play of late, although that as a clan may change soon.

For me personally however, I'm still waiting for that one thing to spark my interest again because as it stands, I have no interest in playing due to the reasons in the OP. I appreciate your concern/want for me to grasp a better understanding of the situation and I will at least try to.

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Cedrea    1

I think that Tomerman's story is a nice addition to the game. I sometimes find it hard to play because the VOIP system is not that great afterall. It is pretty hard to have a conversation with someone in/near a settlement because firstly it takes you a while to realize who is talking to you, and secondly because you can hear someone talking to you from 50 meters like he is next to you.

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Guest Shākya   
Guest Shākya

TL;DR - Meh

I agree, but we will never be able to satisfy everyone. As long as we have unique 200+ players daily I think we're doing good job on varying and improving the community and the role playing experience, even if a few individuals disagree about some of the decisions.

I think saying "we will never be able to satisfy anyone" is a bit of a cop out in responding to this really. It's not just BigLittle who feels this way, I have spoken with numerous players - both new and old - who feel the same way and it it definitely not just "a few individuals disagree about some of the decisions".

What I think BigLittle is trying to say is that with the current story arch as it stands is pretty much power gamed onto players and is beginning to hinder players creative role playing ability. This in turn completely negates any chance players can get to involve themselves in roleplay encounters that are not involved or centered around the CTC/Council - creating very stale, repetitive and boring RP.

What I suggest is that perhaps with the implementation of settlements and the upcoming patch - perhaps have staff take a small step back. I'm not saying completely stop any roleplay you have developed with the Lore/CTC/Council but I think the staff need to take a small step back and allow the players a chance to engage in their own creative roleplay once more that made DayZRP great.

I know it may sound like a hard thing to do considering how much involvement the staff has had in determining roleplay recently but I think this is a decision and measure to be taken that would drastically improve roleplay for everyone on the servers. This is DayZRP and we are here to roleplay, what made DayZRP great was the ability for players to interact with each other and create creative roleplay situations - I know you, the staff and Tomeran are doing what you think is best for the community and I respect that a lot, but the time has come to take a step back and make the players center stage again. Because if something is not done soon - I genuinely fear for the future of creative and interesting roleplay here on DayZRP.

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Burgz    6

I think we can all agree that Standalone will create a fresh new start for us all, being as I believe its using a new lore? Which will not be as restricted as this one because it will be so new.

I don't really understand your points regarding the circling aspect though, when has that ever been different? Nobody wants to be circled and if you don't agree with the whole thing, then let yourself be circled to end it :P

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Hofer    20

I think we can all agree that Standalone will create a fresh new start for us all, being as I believe its using a new lore?

Well, Standalone isn't here yet and there's not promised date. It might be 1 year from now.

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Guest johnygt7   
Guest johnygt7

I think we can all agree that Standalone will create a fresh new start for us all, being as I believe its using a new lore?

Well, Standalone isn't here yet and there's not promised date. It might be 1 year from now.

Hopefully more than a year.I don't like standalone that much

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Burgz    6

quotes

True, but I made no reference to time, only to what it will bring, which hopefully will be a lot more enjoyable :D

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Roofcake    1

I've been playing Skyrim for the past 3 weeks. I really want to get on here and play, but I can't find the heart or devotion to actually do it.

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Rolle    2456

TL;DR - Meh

I agree, but we will never be able to satisfy everyone. As long as we have unique 200+ players daily I think we're doing good job on varying and improving the community and the role playing experience, even if a few individuals disagree about some of the decisions.

I think saying "we will never be able to satisfy anyone" is a bit of a cop out in responding to this really. It's not just BigLittle who feels this way, I have spoken with numerous players - both new and old - who feel the same way and it it definitely not just "a few individuals disagree about some of the decisions".

I have quite the opposite experiences, we've recently gotten positive feedback for events done at the TP and CTC/Council RP. Before this thread I haven't even heard of someone having concerns about CTC limiting their freedom to RP, I can't see how they would.

What I think BigLittle is trying to say is that with the current story arch as it stands is pretty much power gamed onto players and is beginning to hinder players creative role playing ability. This in turn completely negates any chance players can get to involve themselves in roleplay encounters that are not involved or centered around the CTC/Council - creating very stale, repetitive and boring RP.

If the players choose the stale, repetitive and boring role play at the TP or during events with CTC/Council, that is their choice. Nobody is forced or power gamed to participate in those, quite the opposite - people want to participate but often miss these events.

Players are still free to do whatever they want, the CTC and Council lore does not affect anyone outside the TP perimeter, we do not powergame the CTC power outside the TP zone, it should be really easy to avoid them on S2 altogether, not to mention two servers with no CTC/Council activity at all.

I believe if players were really as tired of CTC & Co. limiting their roleplay and tired of their RP they would switch the servers or stop coming to TP. However, as seen on the server stats, that has not happened.

What I suggest is that perhaps with the implementation of settlements and the upcoming patch - perhaps have staff take a small step back. I'm not saying completely stop any roleplay you have developed with the Lore/CTC/Council but I think the staff need to take a small step back and allow the players a chance to engage in their own creative roleplay once more that made DayZRP great.

The settlements are coming, of course. We're eagerly awaiting finished ones to be added with the next patch. We -really- want people to start playing on S1 again, not just to provide some balance and variation in RP, but so that we as CTC can get a break and have some downtime to come up with more event ideas. Flying drones is getting old now... :)

I know it may sound like a hard thing to do considering how much involvement the staff has had in determining roleplay recently but I think this is a decision and measure to be taken that would drastically improve roleplay for everyone on the servers. This is DayZRP and we are here to roleplay, what made DayZRP great was the ability for players to interact with each other and create creative roleplay situations - I know you, the staff and Tomeran are doing what you think is best for the community and I respect that a lot, but the time has come to take a step back and make the players center stage again. Because if something is not done soon - I genuinely fear for the future of creative and interesting roleplay here on DayZRP.

The decision is not hard at all, the decision lies in players hands and what they want to do. We just offer them a different experience with the TP and CTC, it was always meant to be optional, for people who want to trade and who prefer peaceful RP without having to worry about constant bandit attacks. Hence why the new TP was added only on one server, unlike the old TP.

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Guest Biiddy   
Guest Biiddy

I can definitely agree with the clan aspect, myself and some of the to be MVD guys were going round yesterday looking for some good roleplay, every group we found just ran away from us with little to no RP [ Why Terra :( ] the only remotely good RP session we had was when we waited at the airfield for people to come to us and even then a lone survivor initiates on 6 people by himself with no value for his life ( Siorre :/ )

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Guest ArcticStarling   
Guest ArcticStarling

I agree with Matt here, the CTC RP lore is currently the only one on the server, it is not the same as the huge player made dramas back in the days of altar with the 501st allying with the SKA, causing huge in game repercussions from civilians ans other groups. All of the RP was made by the people and their in game actions, not just written in the forums.

I prefer how it used to be as the RP was almost as a drama series, with betrayal and unexpectancies round every corner. While now it's just CTC fight the council, you have a completely 2 way choice of your character or groups reaction to this, it's either fight with CTC or stay neutral. There is no suprise, no drama and for me most of all, no fun becoming involved with the TP or the CTC's storyline as its already pretty much set in stone and I cannot influence it. The reasoning I liked the Dragons wanted to be different and dared to start confronting the CTC so much, as it added surprise and it was an unexpected turn in events. For me it was my favourite part of playing on the server at that point, as it felt like that I was actually making an impact on the storyline.

Just my thoughts though. On phone excuse typos .

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Sin    114

I honestly think that you Doragonzu are willfully misapprehending the purpose of CTC and the TP. I think Rolle states it very clearly:

We just offer them a different experience with the TP and CTC, it was always meant to be optional, for people who want to trade and who prefer peaceful RP without having to worry about constant bandit attacks. Hence why the new TP was added only on one server, unlike the old TP.

It's not staff's fault if a lot of people on the server find the CTC / Council story line compelling. A lot of people latch on to it because it's the best RP they're able to find. I agree that this is a problem, but you are part of the solution. Get out there and create some amazing role play. Crying on the forums is not going to win you any admirers. Witness the number of threads in which people leave decrying the current state of the server, and the most common response is "bye", "cya". No one cares. If you want to quit, be a quitter. Or you could try to reclaim the magic that made Doragonzu one of the most popular clans on the server.

Personally, I've found the RP and storylines of non-staff clans more compelling than the CTC / Council arc. Partly because they develop organically, but mostly because there's no villain - just people doing what they believe they need to do to survive or thrive.

If you're looking for that same kind of compelling RP, you would do well to seek out those types of groups. A significant faction of CLF is all about the politics, and there's plenty of reason for conflict between our groups. There's a ton of Russian militants trying to take over the country, why not confront them? The CTC isn't interested in governing Chernarus, they just want to establish a bubble of peace and order so that they can conduct trade, while CLF and the various Russian groups have openly stated that their goal is to take over and establish the rule of law. CTC is the least of your problems. And the Council? How are they even on your radar? There's the occasional sniper attack on the TP which you do not visit, and rare server events. The Council has virtually no effect in game other than giving people something to talk about.

Finally, I find your suggestion that staff is powergaming the story line to be the worst kind of propaganda. It's frankly insulting to the intelligence of everyone on the server. Your clan orchestrates a scene in which one of your own clan members logs in on a CTC character alt, somehow gets himself captured far outside the CTC's sphere of influence and executed by Dragons, and you have the nerve to call Tomeran's work powergaming? Absurd.

When CTC appears in game, they are neutral. They work to eliminate trolls from the TP so that people can actually meet in a non-hostile environment and work out their differences or conduct trade, or just decompress for a short while. A great deal of top notch RP happens at the TP, and it's not necessarily CTC personnel who are responsible for that. They're essentially the janitors of TP.

Now in regard to metagaming and using the forums for information, there was a time that things posted to the forums were considered public / common knowledge. We've drifted away from that consensus since a lot of people post private journals and commentary about firefights that no one who wasn't there could possibly know about (and other reasons). Still, not everyone has the free time to spend hours every day gathering information in game:

there is not enough time in the day to exert this level of activity.

Learning about events and groups from the forums can be a valuable tool for such players. Of course, it is up to them to 'limit' their character's knowledge. I don't get in game as often as I like, but I like to pretend that my character is in Chernarus even when I'm offline, hearing rumours and scuttlebutt. For me, the actual play time is more like an episodic drama. You know there's more going on behind the scenes, but only the interesting bits are presented to the viewer. That said, I wholeheartedly agree with your comments about humility and people's desire to 'win'. My character routinely feigns ignorance of things that I, as an avid forum participant know perfectly well.

The reason I believe, that the current lore is detrimental to the development of roleplay, and it's integrity is that it goes against the sandbox nature that DayZRP has always had- that you are free to create a narrative for your character and the world shapes itself on your actions. The freedom to create your own story and leave an impact on the server is what is unique about DayZRP over any other way of playing the game. If we are chained to in-game events and a developing storyline then it goes against this.

You're not chained to in-game events. It is a sandbox. A huge sandbox. In fact, it's three sandboxes. Why you're obsessing about what happens in one tiny corner of one sandbox baffles me. The TP was placed in an untravelled backwater location of the map for a reason. Feel free to ignore it. There's plenty of map left to play in, and plenty of players there. Who knows, if you dedicate yourselves to playing S1, you might draw a lot of players to you there. I know the Dragons have a lot of fans in the playerbase. A lot of people would go out of their way to RP with you, if they knew you were there.

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Meatlunk    0

I can definitely agree with the clan aspect, myself and some of the to be MVD guys were going round yesterday looking for some good roleplay, every group we found just ran away from us with little to no RP [ Why Terra :( ] the only remotely good RP session we had was when we waited at the airfield for people to come to us and even then a lone survivor initiates on 6 people by himself with no value for his life ( Siorre :/ )

Yup, I was playing again in ages, we met at least three different groups that didn't want to RP with us at all. We even offered to drop our guns.

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