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Server time (UTC): 2021-10-26 12:56

NLR change


Jukki

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I am suggesting change to New life rule. As it is currently NLR character can not enter the fighting without making new communication, how ever to me this is bad, and ot should be tightened. The rule should be that as kew character you are not allowed to even return to the area, or run back to your body in firefight area, say for 30 minutes. Why I think so? First of all, techicaly the enemy party does not have kos rights on the new guy, i have heard my mates saying that "if they shoot you thats KoS and you can report it" So could it be that new guys could be used as loot carriers, since they are not allowed to be shot at?

We have had firefights where most of us have died, leaving only only one guy allive. So this guy buys time and creates distraction while the new guy run back, grabing any low tier weapon and initiate on the enemy from behind. All legit. But this should not be. It is not like we would get magical reinforcemets in coast line every tile one of our guys down. They had allready killed 5 of us, and suddenly there is five new guy, knowig exactly where everyone is. Not RP in my opinion.

Also we had had situations, where new guys are used as baits, or spotters for the alive charracters. They run around, looking for any enemies and report their position to others. Or are send to bait enemy snipers to shoot them, in order to pin point their location. While not directly killing or contacting, thy still provide alot of help for their team mates. Not RP imo.

Sendig guys multiple times. We had this one encounterement with Z.C , where the same guy came back 2 times sfter being killed, all around cherno outpost. This can be quite annoying for things like outpost, getting no rest because the same guy keeps coming ban and back.

What about after fight is over. Dead players return back, get instantly geared up by the bodies and get most if not all of their gear back.

In my opinion, new life rule should mean that you cant return to the area where you got killed by PvP, PvE would be more dificult to monitor and in my opinion is not that bad thing, like accidentaly getting killed by enviroment or mauled by zombies. This should not be rule breaking. But PvP is diferent. Running back can cause confusion, KoSes, rule breakings and exploiing of gray areas. Thats why i think NLR should mean thart you are not allowe to enter the are of combat you got killed in for say 30 minutes. In case someone is spoted to return to area, either by log confirmation or if he gets killed againg and bodies are examined or anything else like this, the rule breaker should recieve one day ban and caharcter reset, if this would continue then it would raise by day for each NLR rule violations.

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Thanks heinz. Also. Tell me your opinions, no or yes and why? Ideas? Somethignto improve, or remove some of the restriction, should this afrect only PvP or also PvE too? Hinkgs like that. DISCUSSIONS!

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  • MVP
2. NEW LIFE RULE (NLR)

2.1 If you die you spawn as a new character in the game. This means you lose all your previous KoS, revenge or vehicle owner rights.

2.2 You cannot rejoin a conflict/firefight/robbery your teammates are involved without make proper contact with the enemy/victim.

Doesn't this all ready mean that you cannot return to the area as you will probably fit into the "Wrong place. Wrong time" scenario?

I thought it was left unsaid that you could not return to where you were as it was obvious?

The problem arises when the firefight is in a busy place like Cherno/Elektro where people will be going back to gear up.

In my opinion, in a busy place such as these, the victors have no rights to the gear on their victims and if they see someone looting them they will have to approach them again as if they were not part of the original conflict. Otherwise if they were a random person then they would be guilty of RDM.

"Wrong place. Wrong time" kills should not be allowed so commonly. While I agree they don't warrant a ban, I believe that they should be kept track of to prevent people farming negative humanity. These could be easily abused so people can become 'Uber banditsz' in their eyes.

Also, I would think 30 minutes in busy areas would be extreme. If there was a firefight in these areas and everyone involved had kicked the bucket then it should be over but I concede that 10 minutes would be plenty of time i you told your team to investigate what happened. Anyone that died however should not be returning under full penalty of the rules as they stand.

Edit: From Meekia's ruling on another report

Walshy was hit by your friend first, so he had every right to then kill him. I will only be issuing verbal warnings. Please remember the NLR, and you are not supposed to go back to your dead body/the area of the firefight, even though it is not written.

Thought this was the case. There doesn't need to be an amendment. It is common sense. If people do it then they are guilty of the NLR.

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From the RP side of things i wouldn't see how Your character would know they are banned from a town or something.. just seems silly to ban someone from cherno or elektro for half an hour.. Also if someone gets sniped from about 500 meters i think they should have the right to fight for their gear back not just say tough your banned from cherno...

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This really has to change, having a firefight near the coast is just boring, 2 minutes after the fight and the area is flooded with newspawns trying to get their gear back and retaliate. Banning a player from the area for like 30 minutes would remove this problem, because right now its just chaos

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2. NEW LIFE RULE (NLR)

2.1 If you die you spawn as a new character in the game. This means you lose all your previous KoS, revenge or vehicle owner rights.

It pretty much says right here in the rules what I'm thinking. You spawn as a new character, people! Which means you have no idea there are people where you died, or that there is loot. Yes, I agree to the 'no returning to your body' rule, but we don't want more rules. If anything, we want less.

Implementing too many rules will result in people breaking other rules, simply because there are too many to remember. Having common sense isn't hard, you read a rule and follow it. You use your brain and know what's right and wrong in that situation and not use the excuse, "Oh, but it wasn't written in the rules, so I'm allowed to do it." No, mother of god, use your head.

tl;dr

Too many rules = bad.

Stop exploiting the grey areas deliberately.

Have a little common sense.

This isn't directed towards any one inparticular, but everyone. :D

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But the thing is that in current form the new guy is just coming back. Only thing holding him is to get 40 meters away from one of the guys in enemy team and press his macro key. It would not be rule, but change to a rule. No new rules included. Expect that you are not allowed to enter the area of fighting.

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Guest TheBorg

The rise and fall of a nation can cover many cakes. I'm hungry, what was this topic about again?

O wait.. So essentially you are admitting to breaking NLR whilst suggesting to keep NLR as it is right now.

Glorious! Proof is here!

Quickly to the report section.

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  • MVP

Thanks Borg, you made me read through Jukki's post again.

We have had firefights where most of us have died, leaving only only one guy allive. So this guy buys time and creates distraction while the new guy run back, grabing any low tier weapon and initiate on the enemy from behind. All legit.

This is where you are confused mate.

That is not legitimate. You should have been a new-spawn with no prior knowledge of that firefight.

Only your buddy who is still in the fight is able to take part. Or his 'back-up' that has not already been part of this firefight.

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Thats why i want it changed. (and they all made proper contacts. Lets add that they hsd guys running back too in that firefight. Quite a few time too.)

I am saying all of thease from what i know has happend. Everyone of the cases has happend and in current rules are allowed.

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If it is all ready implied, why do all clans break it. Yes all clans including ours. It the line that you start as a new character does not hold people back to go back in there and scout or loot for the team. When there is a fight on the coast it will become mayham, because that new character line in the rules is not trict enough. And it is hard to prove it either. With a line added that says you can't return to the area of the fight you can hold up a new spawn, ask his name/send him away. If he refuses you can shoot him and get his name by study body wich will result in a ban. People will only respect the rules if bans are handed out. And the only way people are caught with the nlr is when the appear in the logs.

From now on I will try to stay away from the area and will ask the same from my clan and other clans or groups of people. That way the amount of high tier weapons will reduce as well since it will despawn more often.

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  • MVP

No it isn't.

In the current rules, it is not explicitly stated, but it is against the rules. It is implied to include this and as such does include.

Therefore as the rules currently stands it is illegitimate. It doesn't need to be changed.

2.1 If you die you spawn as a new character in the game. This means you lose all your previous KoS, revenge or vehicle owner rights.

If you die:

You are a new spawn. You cannot re-enter a firefight. You cannot kill anyone without initiating anything.

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  • MVP

If it is all ready implied, why do all clans break it. Yes all clans including ours. It the line that you start as a new character does not hold people back to go back in there and scout or loot for the team. When there is a fight on the coast it will become mayham, because that new character line in the rules is not trict enough. And it is hard to prove it either. With a line added that says you can't return to the area of the fight you can hold up a new spawn, ask his name/send him away. If he refuses you can shoot him and get his name by study body wich will result in a ban. People will only respect the rules if bans are handed out. And the only way people are caught with the nlr is when the appear in the logs.

All clans do not break this. Plenty of clans, if they die, go off to start again and do not re-enter the firefight. Stop using your actions and implanting them on everyone.

I fail to see where the rules state it is normal for you to run back to your corpse with the intent to continue a firefight you died in or loot bodies (which you should not be aware of due to the NLR rule).

Why does a provision need to be made in the current rule that is pretty clear in its current form.

If you die. You start again and lose all rights to your previous life. If you did not die, you have your revenge timer.

Also it is simple enough to prove if someone died and returned to a firefight. Like the recent report that members of Sons were a part of. If it is reported, it can then be found in logs.

" http://www.dayzrp.com/t-nlr-cherno--4855 "

The rule isn't specific enough. It doesn't say anything about losing gear and body rights. Non-RPers don't know what is or isn't RPing, probably because they just don't care. Specify it and then it means they can't exploit it.

You dont have rights to your corpse which has been stated plenty of times before. Your buddies can reclaim items from it but you cannot.

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It isn't in the rules though. If something needs to be stopped from happening it should be in there. Any new players will not know that they're not allowed to go back to their body.

In my opinion players shouldn't be allowed to return to their body after a firefight and try to re-initiate contact so they can continue to partake in their clan battle. This rule can stop that from happening.

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If comms were in game rather than on teamspeak it would be great to be able to kick a player from their squad comm channel for 10-15 minutes after death. Couldn't scout then. But technically according to the new life rule all your past associations are gone on death so you would cease to even belong to that clan. I'm not suggesting this but that is the logic taken to its conclusion.

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  • MVP
2. NEW LIFE RULE (NLR)

2.1 If you die you spawn as a new character in the game. This means you lose all your previous KoS, revenge or vehicle owner rights.

2.2 You cannot rejoin a conflict/firefight/robbery your teammates are involved without make proper contact with the enemy/victim.

I believe there is a justified fuss about there rules. Why ?

Let's think how the rules are written.

2.1 States that with death you loose any revenge rights, any vehicle rights (and if vehicle then it applies as well to your gear on your previous body). This logic is backed up with "new character" statement, you just wake up on a beach not knowing that rotting body somewhere belong to your previous 'incarnation' and you should treat it as no existent. And if your body is no existent then your knowledge of conflict (in which you died) also is no existent. -> You can't run back straight to place you died, and even if you did , you don't have any KoS/gear rights.

Side Note: Edition of 2.1 by adding 'gear,' would be nice to clear some 'confussion'.

If you die you spawn as a new character in the game. This means you lose all your gear,previous KoS, revenge or vehicle owner rights.

2.2 Merely states that you can't rejoin an ongoing conflict without making a proper contact. Again it's all about restricting you from joining aka 'shooting first' the enemy without contact. -> You can rejoin conflict as long you make contact.

And here is the clash, one one hand you are 'new character' on other you can rejoin conflict as new character as long as you make contact. I believe all the confussion is originating from 2.2, why the hell you could rejoin a conflict that 'you' (ingame character) has no idea of ?

Now, propably people have problem with 2.2 as this rule and use of TS gives them an idea that :"Hey, I'm still in radio comms with my buddies, they tell me where is some body with gear, I'll go there, maybe grab a weapon on the way, make contact and help them out".

IMO that is WRONG. When you die - you die. You have no clue about any firefight ,body,vehicles etc. For gameplay purposes I would say that the ONLY wayt to make 'ingame character' aware of team members presence (and thus knowledge of dead bodies/firefight etc) would be AFTER they successfully end the firefight(either by winning or successfully running away (dunno 10mins after fleeing like in chase rule ? still this escape proposal is thin as ice) ). Why ? It's AFTER the conflict, rules no longer restrict you from going back to spot and claiming gear or whatever.

What should be mentioned is that your reincarnation also doesnt get any KoS rights while your teammates die in that firefight.

Still, this kind of explenation is terrible as 'how come a new character has any friends that magically give info at random moment ?' :P But I can't think of better gameplay solution that would compromise with rules as well.

In situation when firefight take place near spawn point rule could 2.2 apply. You can join conflict but you NEED to make contact. I can't imagine a person running away from spawn because the firefight is there. But that also presents a problem - why a spawn point fight allows more than any other ?

I think that 2.2 should either be changed (cutting out the allowance of rejoining if contact was made) and therefore cutting out any confusion with rejoining conflicts or some other solution should be presented but really can't think of a good one and I don't think timer is good or feasible :/

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Its easy to run back to a firefight and pick up your gear and get shot at then shoot back, using this as an excuse to kill people without making contact.

Yesterday I was in a firefight at the Outpost and there was a lot of dead bodys with gear around the hills and I was in cover watching a fresh spawn scout around my position for about 1 minute, then I got shot at and the fresh spawn ran to get one of the guns from a body.

I think you shouldn't be aloud near the area and say if its a firefight up north if you see any fresh spawns running around you can just drop them without question.

You should be aloud to start heading back but you must stay a good bit away from the area until the firefight is over.

EDIT: If nothing gets done about this, going back to your body is cheap so stop doing it please

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  • Legend

One way to keep players from returning would be ban on death (20 -> 30 mins) i have seen that on some servers, but imo it would not work here.

No. This ^. I want this.

The whole reason I started playing DayZ to begin with was the permadeath aspect. Well, that and the zombies. And the realistic military sim aspect. In that order. I thought that the combination of realism and permadeath would discourage CoD fags and BF3 kiddies from ruining a great idea, but it wasn't enough.

I play this game for the immersion and atmosphere - the RP and player interactions are what makes this server great; but some of the people who play here play for other reasons. They're not ashamed to break immersion by acting like lunatics, nor are they afraid to take stupid, unrealistic risks just to ruin someone's day. I'd like to see everyone playing here feel like they've got something invested in their character and that they have something very real (like 30 minutes of game time) to lose by dying. Having a death timer would add realism to the experience of the player killed as well as the players who did the killing. It would (hopefully) change the behavior of at least some of the players on this server. It would utterly change the dynamic of fights along the coast, preventing newly spawned players from re-entering the fray.

There's no question that I'd rage at it when it happened to me, but I'm more than willing to put up with it, because I'm sure it would have an overall beneficial effect. Can we at least give this a try for a couple of weeks?

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Not to mention if you have a wait timer when you die you're going to play a lot more cautious in firefights therefore making it a better experience for everyone involved

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  • Legend

Furthermore, a 20-30 minute ban on death would obviate the need for most of the language in the NLR, since bodies will have likely despawned by time a player is able to log back in. Less rules, not more.

Jerryski - Bandit -18,009 humanity; Sin - Hero 15,361 humanity. I'd call that bi-partisan support.

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