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Victor Cruz-Mexsion Baiting Ban Appeal

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Link to the source of punishment (report/post):

http://www.dayzrp.com/t-formal-s1-baiting-14-15-25-04-14?pid=645013#pid645013

Why the verdict is not fair:

I understand why the verdict was fair in the eyes of the staff. I personally still feel that it was unfair however. I'd like to explain my points below.

Additional statements/comments explaining your point of view:

I'd first off, like to describe the point of view. Staggs had just been robbed and radioed me, I went to assist. We found the robbers and Staggs got out as I hid my car from the firefight about to erupt and got out and took cover behind the Hay bales not once opening fire. I did this not to gain KoS rights but to aid Staggs if he needed assistance such as medical aid and gather gear if he was to be successful in his attempt to kill his robbers. As I watched Staggs get killed, I decided I'd wait for about ten seconds, these ten seconds were followed by silence which led me to believe that they indeed knew Staggs was killed. I begin to drive off seeing away from the incident and begin to receive fire, I drive back and take cover wand fire back with a scoped Mosin. I radio Juggs and he comes to assist. We end up killing everyone. Now, I will begin to state my statements as to why this verdict was unfair. I would like to state before hand I mean no offense to Staff as I do indeed know they are doing there job.

1.They identified Staggs to not be apart of a clan at the time. I mention this since I know even though the OP of the Formal Report has only joined since April, he is quite familiar with the rules an should have know that I did not have KoS and nobody else did as well.

2.Weapons and Identifying- I will now show that they had ability to check Staggs was indeed dead, not to mention that I wasn't firing. I'd like to also mention I will be posting the hit logs that indeed show weapons that had hit Staggs, doing so will perhaps show maybe that they had the ability to identify there targets.

HIT LOGS

14:13:50 "PHIT: B 1-2-M:1 (Alex 'Staggs' Conview) REMOTE (100724806) was hit by B 1-3-C:1 (Hector Tyrell) REMOTE (129175430) with M4A1 from 162.908m"

If EXL had the ability to shoot at Staggs at that distance and kill him as well. Then he could have made it out that the fire fight was over. Not to mention in the link to the original report, one of the OP's friends had comment and I quote

The only person who had a scopped weapon was ed who was positioning himself on the hill once we were taking fire.

The statement about the weapon he had was true. He indeed had a scoped weapon. Which could have been used to identify that Staggs was killed and that I myself was exiting the field.

3. These men were in a communications via Skype, they had confirmed it after the battle when they came into to discuss what had happened with Staff. Which they could have used to talk to each other and communicate each other. Possibly, feed each other information that Staggs was killed.

4. EXL's Ban- In the report, EXL gets permanently banned for not posting his P.O.V. He had three days to post a point of view which in a case could have helped or even made my case worse. But before the verdict was announce he was unbanned without making a ban appeal and still hadn't had posted his P.O.V. which could have possibly aided me in the report.

5. Muntz, I mean no disrespect but I want to say a couple things regarding the verdict.

A car arrives and two players get out. One of them opens fire on a group. It is unreasonable to expect the group under fire to be able to identify one of these players as not hostile.

I argue this case on the verdict because they knew before hand that Staggs at the time was not affiliated with any groups. It would have been common sense for them to assume that only Staggs had KoS than instead to assume that I was shooting them for no reason.

What isn't reasonable is using this reaction to pass kill rights to a group whom were previously uninvolved with the situation.

Again, I mean no offence and don't want any hate and hope I do not receive any from Staff when I quote something from the rules.

KoS rights can only be transferred between group members or those who are directly involved in the situation.

The reason why I post this is because they had shot at me while I was driving off. That had immediately granted me and wulfhorn, KoS rights on there group. I was under a tight situation and seeing as I did not fire, I honestly believe I did nothing wrong, but can understand how the situation can be interpreted as baiting.

6. Finally, I'd like to conclude one final thing and that was there action to shoot at me while I was driving off. They did not have to shoot me while i was driving off.

From Sin in Report

A vehicle that's running away from you doesn't seem all that hostile to me.

I personally agree with him. But they thought otherwise. This is mainly what had caused me to force my hand to call in assistance. I was in a fire fight, I was out numbered and out gunned since I knew they had just looted a helicopter crash site. Even though I am quite confident in my PvP abilities, I know going up against four better armed men was just suicide. I just would like it if Staff would understand where I was coming from in regards to the situation and again I mean no offence. Thank you so much for taking the time to read this.

What would you like to achieve with this appeal: Removing or possibly reducing the 3 Day Ban, removal or reduction of the Banstrike, undoing the Character Reset.

What could you have done better?:

Possibly Driven off right when I had dropped Staggs off.

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Never worry about causing offense to staff in your appeal. The appeal system is here for a reason. Staff are human and we make mistakes. I never have and never will have an issue with someone appealing a verdict of mine and arguing their point. No offense taken.

In regards to the transferal of KoS rights. Yes, you are shot at and therefore kill rights transfer to your clan. That isn't what we are punishing. The punishment was for the method in which you gained these rights for your clan.

In the opinion of myself and the others that signed the verdict, it is unreasonable to expect a group to be able to distinguish the difference between two men who arrive together, exit the vehicle together and who are both in the same area when shots are fired. You simply leaving does not dispel this. If you had left immediately after dropping Staggs off, then I could maybe see it from your perspective. However, there are many reasons for a hostile party to leave the fight once his friend has been shot. They may realise they are outnumbered, wanting to change positions, fetching reinforcements etc.

The way I see it, is that if we expect them to identify you and Staggs as separate in this case, despite arriving in the same vehicle and both taking positions before Staggs opens fire, then they should be given a ban for attempted KoS on you. Does this sound reasonable? For me personally it doesn't.

Since I was involved in the report verdict, I will not be contributing to the appeal verdict. I am simply trying to clarify the thinking of the GMs involved in the initial decision.

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The thing was I wouldn't have posted a report for attempted KoS. I felt as if these men made a mistake and I was not about to punish them for that. I do however feel that I did not bait and even if I did, it wasn't something I did on purpose, so I feel as if this is something I shouldn't exactly be receiving a three day ban or any ban at all. That the whole situation itself was a mistake made on both parties. I do not like this to be on my record as well and have everyone who looks at my record to be under the impression that I break the rules since it is my third ban. I simply ask that staff view it from my perspective. I understand that you are trying to clarify to the rest of the GMs to say that I did bait. But what I am trying to say is I feel as if I didn't. My points explained above should be able to explain why. I attempted to aid a friend who was rob and seek justice while staying out of a firefight. I get fired upon while leaving after the fight is done. I am out numbered, out gunned, and getting flanked. I had to do what I could. What should I have done in my position differently? Just sit down and let them flank me? Run away and let them think they have KoS on me even though they didn't initiate? Or fight? Even though I did fight and it caused them great discomfort and a lot of OOC hate towards us. I'd still have no choice but to do it again. It was the logical choice because there was nothing stopping them from finding a tire and hunting me down when I was leaving. It's all I could have done and I am sorry it caused discomfort for them but I had no choice.

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I understand that you are trying to clarify to the rest of the GMs to say that I did bait.

I'm not trying to clarify anything to the rest of the GM's. We have other means of communication. The team handling the appeal will make a decision without my input. I am trying to clarify to you.

I do however feel that I did not bait and even if I did, it wasn't something I did on purpose, so I feel as if this is something I shouldn't exactly be receiving a three day ban or any ban at all.

I don't believe for a second that it was intentional. I am sure it wasn't. This was made clear to the team who made the verdict from the start. I completely understand that it may have been a mistake. However it is still a rulebreak.

What should I have done in my position differently? Just sit down and let them flank me? Run away and let them think they have KoS on me even though they didn't initiate? Or fight? I am sorry it caused discomfort for them but I had no choice.

In my opinion, you should not have dropped Staggs off in such a blatantly hostile position and if you did drop him off, you should have left immediately. The mistake you made was getting out of the car with Staggs and remaining as he shot at them.

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-Snip-

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Muntz, if you looked at my record, you would know I wouldn't make a ban appeal if I it was intentional or a mistake.

I did not do this on purpose or put myself into a position to gain KoS.

I know. I said that I don't believe it was intentional. :)

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Muntz, if you looked at my record, you would know I wouldn't make a ban appeal if I it was intentional or a mistake.

I did not do this on purpose or put myself into a position to gain KoS.

I know. I said that I don't believe it was intentional. :)

I apologize, I read that wrong. I feel silly now. Allow me to snip that.

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Verdict

Appeal Denied.

Explanation

First of all I would like to apologise for the delayed action of this appeal. This appeal was not forgotten but it was not handled as promptly as I am sure anyone would have liked.

Saying that however, the team who reviewed this case feel that the original was in fact correct. While it is true that the originally robbed person was not involved with a clan you did everything in your power to act as if you were in fact actively assisting him. As in fact you were. It is hardly a leap to assume you were hostile. Taking advantage of such dubiously gained KoS rights is specifically why we have the baiting rule in place. You made the situation very difficult for the people shooting at you to determine your role in the situation. There is no way we can blame the other party for the way they acted in this case.

Outcome

No Action Taken.

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