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Alyais

Enhancing your roleplay; The Turku Manifesto

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Alyais    0

Another thread discussing roleplaying racism and racist characters has some interesting posts. To keep that thread from being derailed I thought I'd bring my views over to this thread and inspire a new discussion.

As an introduction, I am fairly new to the community but love any group of roleplayers. I have been roleplaying since I was a child and I absolutely love the feeling I get from playing a character. It is my goal to always strive for absolute immersion so, unless I am forced to, I never break character and I never behave in a way that is "gamist".

A few years ago a group of friends and I found something called the Turku Manifesto and began applying it to our Live Action Roleplay experiences to great success. The Manifesto is basically a theory concerning roleplay that originated in Scandanavia. In fact, Scandanavia takes roleplaying very very seriously and the Turku Manifesto is only one of many "schools of thought". Also included are Dogma99.

These roleplay schools of thought discuss how we roleplay specifically, in the context of LARP but are obviously applicable to all mediums.

One important distinction is the difference between acting and roleplaying. Acting requires suspension of disbelief on the part of the audience while roleplaying requires your own suspension of disbelief.

You can view the full text of the Turku Manifesto here.

The Turku Manifesto also has what it calls the "Player's Vow of Chastity" which, while sounding a little scary, is a set of rules that will produce extremely immersive roleplay when followed. You can view the full text of it here.

Thoughts?

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Murdercool    29

Yeah it reminds me of different things I studied in Drama. Like when I had to study Stanislavski, and the System. I had a quick browse it looks quite similar, I take my role-play quite similar too and try to never break character. I do like the Stanislavski system of acting it's pretty interesting. It's hard to perform at times in physical acting, when it comes to voice acting and role-play it's not that hard. Just got to imagine you are the character, and imagine how your character would be feeling. Although Stanislavski said that to do it completely you need to have felt that emotion, well I guess no one has felt the real fear of being in a Zombie Apocalypse.

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Zcahman    0

Wow, I read the "set of rules that will produce extremely immersive role-play when followed" and do have that from what I've seen some players could learn a thing or two from that. I hope this forum post gains popularity!

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There's some interesting stuff in there for sure. Haven't read all of it yet but I did want to comment on this:

I shall use no non-diegetic (out-of-game world) methods (such as background music or unrelated off-game comments) while playing

Why not exactly? Background music helps me immerse myself.

It seems though that a lot of this stuff is related to roleplaying where there's a gamemaster. In DayZRP, there is no gamemaster. Yes, we literally have a staff position called "gamemaster", but all they do is enforce the rules after they've already been broken.

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Murdercool    29

There's some interesting stuff in there for sure. Haven't read all of it yet but I did want to comment on this:

I shall use no non-diegetic (out-of-game world) methods (such as background music or unrelated off-game comments) while playing

Why not exactly? Background music helps me immerse myself.

It seems though that a lot of this stuff is related to roleplaying where there's a gamemaster. In DayZRP, there is no gamemaster. Yes, we literally have a staff position called "gamemaster", but all they do is enforce the rules after they've already been broken.

I think it's trying to say that music may depending on the person, take the person out of the right state of mind for the situation. I guess it depends on what music your listening to and what sort of person. I know if I was role-playing music would distract me a little. I like to listen to music when writing but I wouldn't while role-play. It's all person preference if it helps you, it helps you.

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Alyais    0

There are some really interesting thoughts here that usually are forgotten in "how to roleplay" guides that I've seen on this forum and others.

For instance, the fourth note on the Player's Vow of Chastity is;

"When attempting to look and act like the character, I shall avoid stage acting. I am aware that I and my character might have different ways of speech, manners or other outward features, without them forcing me, the player, to over-act or otherwise call for undue attention."

This rule alone is something I feel most people could benefit from.

In another thread today I mentioned that I had an encounter on the server yesterday with some players who had their first time roleplaying. At the end of the thread I mentioned them breaking character or behaving oddly several times. The fifth note mentions how to act in these scenarios;

"I shall immerse myself in the game with the assumption that if a character or other game element seems out of place in the world or in the game - such as comical, over-acted or badly played - it is still a part of the world, not a stupid idea the player had."

There's some interesting stuff in there for sure. Haven't read all of it yet but I did want to comment on this:

I shall use no non-diegetic (out-of-game world) methods (such as background music or unrelated off-game comments) while playing

Why not exactly? Background music helps me immerse myself.

It seems though that a lot of this stuff is related to roleplaying where there's a gamemaster. In DayZRP, there is no gamemaster. Yes, we literally have a staff position called "gamemaster", but all they do is enforce the rules after they've already been broken.

Background Music is awesome, absolutely, and it may "prime" you to get into the proper mindset for roleplaying but there is no way that the music (if it is not being produced in game) is immersive. How can you explain the music to your senses? Immersion requires you to be one hundred percent in the character and since that goal is difficult to achieve in LARP I know factually that it is even harder to achieve outside of it. Regardless, if we all strive to reach 80% immersion we'd still be doing ourselves a service!

On our way to our monthly LARP event we usually listen to music from the period (depending on the LARP) and try to "prime" ourselves to be in character. Once we're at the event we've already readied our minds for the game.

The document was written with LARP in mind and implies that there are organizers or "gamemasters". However, while it wasn't written for our exact medium it is still quite applicable in my opinion.

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I can see where you are coming from and I can emphatically agree that there are a number of things people need to be more aware of when portraying their characters but this 'manifesto' is a bunch of pretentious ramblings for comparing apples and oranges.

Acting and role playing one can argue are two sides of the same coin, that merely require different vectors. Here both have a place depending on the scenario and place.

I can see the intentions of the document but it is nothing new to what has already been mentioned a myriad of times on these forums in a much more concise and easily digested form.

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The problem with the RP we have here is that it is a loose RP and i say loose because you can die and yet re-spawn back as the same char with loose rules over your death you are still in the clan still do the same things.

In a full RP your char dies then you have to start a new char completely, now i know that this is very hard with clans but the problem is the thought of you char dieing in the current RP is not a major problem in proper RP you manage your RP where you try your upmost to not die at all especially when you put so much time in to developing your character.

I understand why we cant do this here but i find the biggest thing is that "some" people don't take there char seriously so don't really care if they die or not , i also think that if strict rules on RP come in more than what we have now only the hardened RPers will play and i think a lot of the "thrill kiddies" wouldn't stay.

To be honest if each person of there own volition would read the OP and think about it , it would only improve the RP on the servers.

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I can see where you are coming from and I can emphatically agree that there are a number of things people need to be more aware of when portraying their characters but this 'manifesto' is a bunch of pretentious ramblings for comparing apples and oranges.

Acting and role playing one can argue are two sides of the same coin, that merely require different vectors. Here both have a place depending on the scenario and place.

I can see the intentions of the document but it is nothing new to what has already been mentioned a myriad of times on these forums in a much more concise and easily digested form.

Unfortunately I'm going to have to agree.

When attempting to look and act like the character, I shall avoid stage acting. I am aware that I and my character might have different ways of speech, manners or other outward features, without them forcing me, the player, to over-act or otherwise call for undue attention.

This could've been stated in a much more succinct way. I'm all for flowery writing but to me it seems like this 'manifesto' should take its own advice: avoid melodrama.

There. I said it in two words instead of 47.

As for playing music: you have a point. I can't explain that. But neither can I explain that I have to press a button to talk. Or one of another dozen things. Truth is that music helps me immerse myself because it puts me in a certain mood.

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Alyais    0

Here is a rule from the Manifesto that I particularly love. It makes sense when you think of a game-style of immersion first but I think a lot of roleplayers might not have this in mind.

Notation 9 on the Vow of Chastity;

"I shall not let any non-critical factors from outside the game (such as entertaining the other players, advancing the plot, guiding the newbies, off-gaming etc.) affect my playing in any way. During the game these things do not exist for me."

In DayZ a common exception would be to try and "meet up with friends" or "gearing up a friend".

Obviously in real-life if you encountered a friend you wouldn't simply head straight for the local military base to steal weapons. What if there are hostile survivors there? Etc?

I can see where you are coming from and I can emphatically agree that there are a number of things people need to be more aware of when portraying their characters but this 'manifesto' is a bunch of pretentious ramblings for comparing apples and oranges.

Acting and role playing one can argue are two sides of the same coin, that merely require different vectors. Here both have a place depending on the scenario and place.

I can see the intentions of the document but it is nothing new to what has already been mentioned a myriad of times on these forums in a much more concise and easily digested form.

I agree that acting and roleplaying are two sides of the same coin and didn't mean to imply otherwise.

I'm not sure how this is pretentious. Scandanavia takes roleplay very seriously, even going so far as to have symposiums on the topics. Some individuals even have degrees in topics related to roleplaying such as sociology or drama. This document is no more pretentious than anyone else posting a guide on how to better roleplay.

Please forgive me if I've offended you by not reading the other guides. I've read some on this forum and enjoyed them and understand the need for their brevity but I still think the Manifesto here has something to offer for us.

I don't think we need things to be "easily digestible". What is so wrong with asking people to think a little bit? We're a community and can have discussions and debates concerning the finer points of things that are not easily digestible.

The problem with the RP we have here is that it is a loose RP and i say loose because you can die and yet re-spawn back as the same char with loose rules over your death you are still in the clan still do the same things.

In a full RP your char dies then you have to start a new char completely, now i know that this is very hard with clans but the problem is the thought of you char dieing in the current RP is not a major problem in proper RP you manage your RP where you try your upmost to not die at all especially when you put so much time in to developing your character.

I understand why we cant do this here but i find the biggest thing is that "some" people don't take there char seriously so don't really care if they die or not , i also think that if strict rules on RP come in more than what we have now only the hardened RPers will play and i think a lot of the "thrill kiddies" wouldn't stay.

To be honest if each person of there own volition would read the OP and think about it , it would only improve the RP on the servers.

Every time I have died I have played a new character and written a new backstory for them. I don't expect this of others but I can say that it has made my experience feel more rewarding and I recommend it. Sticking with the same "clan" or "group" over and over wouldn't be very interesting to me. When you insulate yourself and your roleplay only YOU lose out.

Part of what makes me care about my character so much isn't his gear- its the time I've spent developing him within the setting.

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I agree that acting and roleplaying are two sides of the same coin and didn't mean to imply otherwise.

I'm not sure how this is pretentious. Scandanavia takes roleplay very seriously, even going so far as to have symposiums on the topics. Some individuals even have degrees in topics related to roleplaying such as sociology or drama. This document is no more pretentious than anyone else posting a guide on how to better roleplay.

Please forgive me if I've offended you by not reading the other guides. I've read some on this forum and enjoyed them and understand the need for their brevity but I still think the Manifesto here has something to offer for us.

I don't think we need things to be "easily digestible". What is so wrong with asking people to think a little bit? We're a community and can have discussions and debates concerning the finer points of things that are not easily digestible.

Forgive me for speaking for SumoS but I think you're missing the point. Discussions are great. It's why I'm still here, and I bet it's why SumoS is still here too. But you can discuss things and be much more to the point. The goal of a guide is to explain something, but that this manifesto is way more complicated than it could've been is evident by the fact it's called a 'manifesto'.

Bottom line is that the same points made in the manifesto could be made in a much simpler and easier to read format. And that has happened in some of the existing guides here. That's what he meant, not that he's offended by you not reading them. :)

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I agree that acting and roleplaying are two sides of the same coin and didn't mean to imply otherwise.

I'm not sure how this is pretentious. Scandanavia takes roleplay very seriously, even going so far as to have symposiums on the topics. Some individuals even have degrees in topics related to roleplaying such as sociology or drama. This document is no more pretentious than anyone else posting a guide on how to better roleplay.

Please forgive me if I've offended you by not reading the other guides. I've read some on this forum and enjoyed them and understand the need for their brevity but I still think the Manifesto here has something to offer for us.

I don't think we need things to be "easily digestible". What is so wrong with asking people to think a little bit? We're a community and can have discussions and debates concerning the finer points of things that are not easily digestible.

No offense taken at all, don't worry.

Certainly one can also argue that a symposium is very over the top, and as Gijs mentioned above "goes beyond what itself says".

Nonetheless it is an interesting read but I am not saying people don't need to think for themselves but much of the document is just hyperbole based on opinion and extrapolated to sound melodramatic itself.

Although there are points that bring up an interesting discussion which in itself, serves some purpose.

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Alyais    0

When attempting to look and act like the character, I shall avoid stage acting. I am aware that I and my character might have different ways of speech, manners or other outward features, without them forcing me, the player, to over-act or otherwise call for undue attention.

This could've been stated in a much more succinct way. I'm all for flowery writing but to me it seems like this 'manifesto' should take its own advice: avoid melodrama.

There. I said it in two words instead of 47.

As for playing music: you have a point. I can't explain that. But neither can I explain that I have to press a button to talk. Or one of another dozen things. Truth is that music helps me immerse myself because it puts me in a certain mood.

You are right. The original author could have employed more brevity and maybe there is some value to being brief. In my opinion however, the author's intentions were to be specific in the same way that someone writing a scientific paper on the origins of species would try to be specific. Honestly, the author's language and word count does not bother me.

With regards to your last point; I absolutely agree. However if your argument is that "X breaks my immersion, therefore Y breaking my immersion does not matter" we must disagree. Indeed, I would argue that you're employing a fallacy to your detriment. None-the-less I think that your music is a step in the absolute right direction.

If we are going to take roleplaying seriously we have to acknowledge that its goal is to become, and then remain, immersed. This can't be done in fifteen minutes in DayZ or even twenty. I don't feel truly immersed until I've been playing for an hour and have forgotten all of the outside distractions, grief, etc.

Even at LARP in which "the game" controls 100% of all of my senses and external stimuli I need hours and hours to feel truly immersed in another setting. There are advantages and disadvantages to computer games versus LARP as mediums for roleplay that we can certainly discuss if you'd like- however if we're going to attempt to become immersed and roleplay in DayZ we should strive to all maintain full immersion if we can.


No offense taken at all, don't worry.

Certainly one can also argue that a symposium is very over the top, and as Gijs mentioned above "goes beyond what itself says".

Nonetheless it is an interesting read but I am not saying people don't need to think for themselves but much of the document is just hyperbole based on opinion and extrapolated to sound melodramatic itself.

Although there are points that bring up an interesting discussion which in itself, serves some purpose.

Roleplaying is an aspect of sociology and in that regard I don't think that a symposium to discuss roleplaying is over the top. These are very educated people discussing these topics and they take it very seriously. In some Scandanavian countries LARP is recognized as an artform and sport and the state even subsidizes these groups. Obviously there are more than just a couple rational people taking this very seriously.

Yes, its not DayZ or computer game roleplaying but it still can contribute value to what we are doing.

The document is hyperbole in the same way that any document written as a "guide" on how to "better roleplay" is. The only differences are that:

1. The Turku Manifesto was written many years ago.

2. The people writing the Manifesto take roleplaying as an artform very seriously.

Is there any points of the document you disagree with? How about the DOGMA99 manifesto which the Turku Manifesto was written in response to?

The link is here.

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With regards to your last point; I absolutely agree. However if your argument is that "X breaks my immersion, therefore Y breaking my immersion does not matter" we must disagree. Indeed, I would argue that you're employing a fallacy to your detriment.

You're right, it was a stupid argument and I slapped myself for making it. However, my point that music puts me in a certain mood still stands. I use it in the exact same way as a series or movie uses a soundtrack.

Have you seen House of Cards or Carnivàle? Two amazing series. The composer, Jeff Beal, has managed to create a soundtrack for both that you won't notice. But it's there, and it affects your experience in a positive way.

That is my approach to roleplaying. I see it like watching a movie. Does that mean I can truly become my character? No, it certainly doesn't, and I recognize that as a flaw of my approach. But that is why I like to play in third person. It is why I like to write about my character in story-form instead of journal-form.

My character isn't me. He's his own entity. He lives his own life. And I learn new things about him every day. When writing, when playing. When someone asks me in-game if I'm afraid of heights, I might not've thought about that yet. At that point, it's my character that tells me if he's afraid of heights.

I don't know if this is the best approach but it is one that has worked great for me. I still need time to immerse myself but I feel I can do it in a much shorter amount of time, which works for me because I don't have the time to play hours in a row.

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You are right. The original author could have employed more brevity and maybe there is some value to being brief. In my opinion however, the author's intentions were to be specific in the same way that someone writing a scientific paper on the origins of species would try to be specific. Honestly, the author's language and word count does not bother me.

With regards to your last point; I absolutely agree. However if your argument is that "X breaks my immersion, therefore Y breaking my immersion does not matter" we must disagree. Indeed, I would argue that you're employing a fallacy to your detriment. None-the-less I think that your music is a step in the absolute right direction.

If we are going to take roleplaying seriously we have to acknowledge that its goal is to become, and then remain, immersed. This can't be done in fifteen minutes in DayZ or even twenty. I don't feel truly immersed until I've been playing for an hour and have forgotten all of the outside distractions, grief, etc.

Even at LARP in which "the game" controls 100% of all of my senses and external stimuli I need hours and hours to feel truly immersed in another setting. There are advantages and disadvantages to computer games versus LARP as mediums for roleplay that we can certainly discuss if you'd like- however if we're going to attempt to become immersed and roleplay in DayZ we should strive to all maintain full immersion if we can.

Well if we subtract the word-count and the long-winded nature as a factor then we are left with very little else to compare or add. Likewise the choice of the word 'Manifesto'.

You do make good points. I myself do not use music as I find it a distraction due to my use of TS as radio communications and external information which can be used in an RP context. Using the same suggestions would make that impossible and could detract from the experience due to there being no similar features in the game itself.

Like you said to Gijs, I feel that music if used well can serve a good purpose. Unlike someone listening to dub step while running around Chernarus :D

Full immersion is subjective also as external stimuli can be used in a fully in-character fashion, if used maturely. In fact we have probably had a number of discussions on this in a number of other threads.

My character isn't me. He's his own entity. He lives his own life. And I learn new things about him every day. When writing, when playing. When someone asks me in-game if I'm afraid of heights, I might not've thought about that yet. At that point, it's my character that tells me if he's afraid of heights.

I don't know if this is the best approach but it is one that has worked great for me. I still need time to immerse myself but I feel I can do it in a much shorter amount of time, which works for me because I don't have the time to play hours in a row.

That seems very fair.

I myself created a character that WAS me but became something else entirely. I slowly started to become that character over time in real life. So certainly I guess you could say that I followed a method approach.

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Alyais    0

You're right, it was a stupid argument and I slapped myself for making it. However, my point that music puts me in a certain mood still stands. I use it in the exact same way as a series or movie uses a soundtrack.

Have you seen House of Cards or Carnivàle? Two amazing series. The composer, Jeff Beal, has managed to create a soundtrack for both that you won't notice. But it's there, and it affects your experience in a positive way.

That is my approach to roleplaying. I see it like watching a movie. Does that mean I can truly become my character? No, it certainly doesn't, and I recognize that as a flaw of my approach. But that is why I like to play in third person. It is why I like to write about my character in story-form instead of journal-form.

My character isn't me. He's his own entity. He lives his own life. And I learn new things about him every day. When writing, when playing. When someone asks me in-game if I'm afraid of heights, I might not've thought about that yet. At that point, it's my character that tells me if he's afraid of heights.

I don't know if this is the best approach but it is one that has worked great for me. I still need time to immerse myself but I feel I can do it in a much shorter amount of time, which works for me because I don't have the time to play hours in a row.

Just to be clear, I absolutely agree that your music is priming you for better roleplay and immersion. I'm not an authority on immersion in DayZ and cannot say that your music isn't helping YOU become immersed.

However, I can say that to me the music must stop once I begin playing if my goal is to be immersed because the music isn't heard in game and serves as a distraction that reminds me of the outside world.

I have seen both House of Cards and Carnivàle and agree with you that I am more enthralled by those stories because of their soundtracks. That medium of storytelling requires music to set our mood and "prime" us for the drama. In some ways, music might be able to do the same for DayZ.

My approach however is to limit my environment's impact on my immersion so as to increase it.

I agree with your desire to improvise certain aspects of the character's psyche that you couldn't have known, or didn't think of, prior to them coming up. I have done the same on a number of occasions though I try to limit this as much as possible. The Manifesto mentions this in its Vow of Chastity. (Note 6).

"If forced to improvise or add to my character during the game, my first and foremost goal shall be to do this by thinking about the big picture I have of the character and the game world, not trying to add surface dramatics or theatre methods. While playing, I will focus on immersing myself in my own character, not trying to improve the gaming experience of other players. I will try to be true to my character without trying to spot a story-line which I should act out. I accept the fact that as a player my part is to see only a small part of the whole."

That seems very fair.

I myself created a character that WAS me but became something else entirely. I slowly started to become that character over time in real life. So certainly I guess you could say that I followed a method approach.

Your starting as yourself and slowly becoming the character is a common method in roleplaying and, though it doesn't explicitly focus on this, the documentary

. Humorously, Darkon is not a very immersive LARP and yet these individuals still slowly became their characters.


Forgive the DARKON documentary, I know it will seem very campy to many of you. :P

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All I'm saying is that there's a school of thought that instead of becoming your character, you see it as a separate entity capable of making its own decisions.

I have no idea what the best approach is, but I do know what category I fall under. I've heard people say it is impossible to immerse yourself using third person [as an argument against it]. I think the exact opposite. Maybe it is because I like series so much.

I understand fully why you don't like playing music because I understand your different and possibly better approach.

By the way, good on you for watching House of Cards and Carnivàle! :)

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Roleplaying is an aspect of sociology and in that regard I don't think that a symposium to discuss roleplaying is over the top. These are very educated people discussing these topics and they take it very seriously. In some Scandanavian countries LARP is recognized as an artform and sport and the state even subsidizes these groups. Obviously there are more than just a couple rational people taking this very seriously.

Yes, its not DayZ or computer game roleplaying but it still can contribute value to what we are doing.

The document is hyperbole in the same way that any document written as a "guide" on how to "better roleplay" is. The only differences are that:

1. The Turku Manifesto was written many years ago.

2. The people writing the Manifesto take roleplaying as an artform very seriously.

Is there any points of the document you disagree with? How about the DOGMA99 manifesto which the Turku Manifesto was written in response to?

The link is here.

Considering sociology is the study of human behavior and its progress, I imagine there can be intelligent discussions on every aspect. Perhaps there are symposiums on a number of things that we may see as irrelevant (not saying that this case is not relevant). Of course they will take their topics equally seriously.

It is very diverse and an all encompassing study of everything in the gamut of humanity and social structures.

LARP and role playing as an art form or sport? I see no reason to agree or disagree? I would say both arguments have fair points.

In regards to the Dogma approach, I have only touched upon its information but looking at its 'Vow of Chastity' I can try add some notes with my opinion:

It is forbidden to create action by writing it into the past history of a character or the event.

Agreed, which we already see under god-modding.

There shall be no "main plot". (The story of the event must be made for each players character, not the whole).

Cannot be applied as we have an over-arching story line alongside our personal stories. I do agree with the sentiment and I was a proponent of removing the over arching storyline to be open ended so people do not lose their way.

No character shall only be a supporting part.

I agree with it only as much as each person can decide what that part should be.

All secrecy is forbidden. (Any participant who so desires shall in advance be shown all documents that pertain to the event).

This makes many story lines obsolete and can prevent any honest interaction. If this was the case a group, such as mine, would not be able to function.

After the event has begun, the playwrights are not allowed to influence it. (Any use of staging and ad hoc organiser roles is forbidden).

This cannot work as the GM make live scenarios for players to interact with. Only applicable to LARP.

Superficial action is forbidden. (The playwrights may not in any way plan or encourage the use or threat of violence as part of the event)

Irrelevant in the scenario.

LARPs inspired by table-top role-playing games are not accepted.

Again, irrelevant.

No object shall be used to represent another object. (all things shall be what they appear to be)

Depends on game mechanics. People use what they can already to make do. It is on the onus of the witness to play off that.

Game mechanics are forbidden. (rules to simulate for instance the use of violence or supernatural abilities are not permitted)

Again, irrelevant if a feature.

The playwrights shall be held accountable for the whole of their work.

One of the few I can agree with if we apply this towards the GMs in charge of specifics scenarios. I have put feedback for those already and I do feel the organizers are responsible.

So I would say in terms of immersion in a LARP? I am not a LARPer but I can see where every one of these would have relevance and can agree.

Here? Not so much but their counterparts are already represented and commented on numerous times in a variety of discussions.


Your starting as yourself and slowly becoming the character is a common method in roleplaying and, though it doesn't explicitly focus on this, the documentary

. Humorously, Darkon is not a very immersive LARP and yet these individuals still slowly became their characters.


Forgive the DARKON documentary, I know it will seem very campy to many of you. :P

Ah but my character is still a separate entity whom I merely use as a form of interaction. Which I imagine is still very much a normal means to play a role. Method actors do the same. Nevertheless I'll have a look. I'll prepare some margaritas to match the campy mood :D

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Here is a rule from the Manifesto that I particularly love. It makes sense when you think of a game-style of immersion first but I think a lot of roleplayers might not have this in mind.

Notation 9 on the Vow of Chastity;

"I shall not let any non-critical factors from outside the game (such as entertaining the other players, advancing the plot, guiding the newbies, off-gaming etc.) affect my playing in any way. During the game these things do not exist for me."

In DayZ a common exception would be to try and "meet up with friends" or "gearing up a friend".

Obviously in real-life if you encountered a friend you wouldn't simply head straight for the local military base to steal weapons. What if there are hostile survivors there? Etc?

I can see where you are coming from and I can emphatically agree that there are a number of things people need to be more aware of when portraying their characters but this 'manifesto' is a bunch of pretentious ramblings for comparing apples and oranges.

Acting and role playing one can argue are two sides of the same coin, that merely require different vectors. Here both have a place depending on the scenario and place.

I can see the intentions of the document but it is nothing new to what has already been mentioned a myriad of times on these forums in a much more concise and easily digested form.

I agree that acting and roleplaying are two sides of the same coin and didn't mean to imply otherwise.

I'm not sure how this is pretentious. Scandanavia takes roleplay very seriously, even going so far as to have symposiums on the topics. Some individuals even have degrees in topics related to roleplaying such as sociology or drama. This document is no more pretentious than anyone else posting a guide on how to better roleplay.

Please forgive me if I've offended you by not reading the other guides. I've read some on this forum and enjoyed them and understand the need for their brevity but I still think the Manifesto here has something to offer for us.

I don't think we need things to be "easily digestible". What is so wrong with asking people to think a little bit? We're a community and can have discussions and debates concerning the finer points of things that are not easily digestible.

The problem with the RP we have here is that it is a loose RP and i say loose because you can die and yet re-spawn back as the same char with loose rules over your death you are still in the clan still do the same things.

In a full RP your char dies then you have to start a new char completely, now i know that this is very hard with clans but the problem is the thought of you char dieing in the current RP is not a major problem in proper RP you manage your RP where you try your upmost to not die at all especially when you put so much time in to developing your character.

I understand why we cant do this here but i find the biggest thing is that "some" people don't take there char seriously so don't really care if they die or not , i also think that if strict rules on RP come in more than what we have now only the hardened RPers will play and i think a lot of the "thrill kiddies" wouldn't stay.

To be honest if each person of there own volition would read the OP and think about it , it would only improve the RP on the servers.

Every time I have died I have played a new character and written a new backstory for them. I don't expect this of others but I can say that it has made my experience feel more rewarding and I recommend it. Sticking with the same "clan" or "group" over and over wouldn't be very interesting to me. When you insulate yourself and your roleplay only YOU lose out.

Part of what makes me care about my character so much isn't his gear- its the time I've spent developing him within the setting.

I agree with what you say and it is very good way to play RP , but there are a lot who want the clan due to their friends , but they could use your concept and apply it easily in a clan environment by simply starting a new char still being in the clan on the forums and then joining ingame , he can then hear the story of how his previous char died and the story to it , this would also make others RP a lot more involved coz they then have history to how former members died .

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Alyais    0

I agree with what you say and it is very good way to play RP , but there are a lot who want the clan due to their friends , but they could use your concept and apply it easily in a clan environment by simply starting a new char still being in the clan on the forums and then joining ingame , he can then hear the story of how his previous char died and the story to it , this would also make others RP a lot more involved coz they then have history to how former members died .

I understand that completely, Nigel. Indeed, I enjoy roleplaying with my girlfriend and given the opportunity we will make an attempt to play together. However, when we join a group we almost immediately go in separate directions with our roleplay and efforts. The logic behind this is simple: while roleplaying with one another is comfortable and easy for us roleplaying with others feels much more immersive. For instance, we cannot make assumptions based on OOC things about strangers.

If you die and want to play with the same group I encourage you to make a new character with new motivations and new ideas. Indeed, a character that is entirely original. If you desire to be particularly interesting you can play a character that would have some "conflict" with your former group. While he can still belong there, perhaps this time around your character protests when women are held up or robbed? Perhaps this time instead of being a "good person" and using group resources to help strangers you INSIST that this not be done. Or vice versa.

What this does is make the roleplay in the group less stale, more fluid, and provides a meaningful experience to you and them since you get to explore other facets of yourself during these roleplaying encounters.

Another advantage exists to permanent character death in this particular genre and game that I think may have been missed.

Permanent death makes your feel of the game feel more immersive and it makes your worry for your character more real. In the United States most Live Action Roleplay Groups have a "resurrection" system where you respawn with little memory of your past lives in the same way many here roleplay "waking up" on the coast. This concept of ressurection is not often found in Nordic LARP. I would argue that this first approach is inferior to permanent death for the following reasons:

1. There is value to be gained in a more realistic story. The more realistic a story is, especially a non-linear story like DayZ RP, the easier it to become immersed and stay immersed. It also becomes easier to forgive and overlook things that would break immersion such as bugs.

2. Permanent death makes the story more mutable. Indeed, if the leader of a major "survivor settlement" is murdered in a roleplaying altercation those who survive him now have to pick up the pieces. Even if the "clan" or "community" falls apart this is all the sum of those individual character's decisions at that time. This story, one that is mutable and ever-changing, is more true not just to real life (see point #1) but it is also more valuable as an experience since it prevents anyone from feeling like a "secondary character".

3. Permanent death goes a very long way to prevent nepotism. I have not been involved in this community for very long and cannot speak to how much nepotism is present but I imagine the rest of you can. Nepotism tends to spoil most communities by making them feel less democratic, less fair, and in the context of a roleplaying environment it makes your experiences feel less rewarding.

4. Permanent death opens up opportunities for roleplay that you might not have previously had access to. If you are playing a violent and angry character that leads his group of survivors through fear and die- you are now able to play a character concept with other players that you've not experienced before. Immersive Experiences are the goal of roleplaying and the most varied experiences you can have- the more rewarding your experiences become.

5. Permanent death prevents a "campy" feel to the ongoing story (linear or not). You can

and of course how silly would The Walking Dead be if character's returned from the dead? It would break your immersion in the story they've crafted and, if done enough, the plotline would feel cheap and campy. Don't get me wrong, I love the drama of not knowing if a character lived or died but constant character ressurection will make the story campy. This happened in Stargate SG-1 and of course the presence of it would have ruined the "feel" of Battlestar Galactica (RDM).

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