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Server time (UTC): 2021-10-18 10:30

Firefight rulechange


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Dear admins and rulemakers,

This is a suggestion coming from clans that encounter PvP in larger numbers on the server often called a 'firefight' or 'clanfight'.

We, the more PvPrp orientated clans would like this suggestion added in the Supplemental Rules under the section Ruleplay over Roleplay. The green sections is all ready in there and the blue section is the suggestion made by us.

Ruleplay over Roleplay

While we always expect players to follow the rules some actions that follow the main rules but are still otherwise unreasonable and degrade the experience of other players are disallowed by this general provision. Such acts include

O Excessive baiting to gain revenge rights.

o During a firefight, there are dead bodies. These bodies are property of the competing clans in this firefight.

Looting these dead bodies can get you killed. Firefights should be avoided if you gain knowledge of these firefights.

We do not feel that this is an excuse to shoot everyone in a firefight, but we do feel we are in need of some protection un till a solution is found. We all know clan skins is not going to happen any time soon and with clans/groups wearing all kinds of skins we feel some form of protection is needed in the rules.

If a person loots a dead body in a fight we feel he is free game as long as its clear that there is a fight going on. Nothing is more offending to hear the person saying: 'I heard gunshots and saw dead bodies, so I decided to loot'.

Note that the rule is posted below excessive baiting, to counter people from camping dead bodies and claiming a 'firefight' it is still up to the admins to judge if there was a firefight or not.

signed by

-SDS

-CRA(disbanded, but asked before disband therefor still written down)

-BHM

-B-17

-SVR

-Exiles

-BoS

-ISOA

-VOLKI

-JBG

-UKSF

-Outsiders

total members: 153

I asked the clans that are often involved in larger scale firefights. If you want to be added feel free to post. If you feel the rule should be changed and improved also feel free to post. Last, but not least: if you disagree you can post your argument as well.

Keep it clean

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Support! this will Lower KOS reports as people will HAVE to follow the guidlines of NOT going into a firefight to get loot, and the people fighting actually get the stuff they deserve instead of it being someone who's sneaked in

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  • Emerald

How will a player know there is a for sure firefight, what if they here gun shots and just think someone is shooting zombies or its one of the points in a firefight and not shooting is happening, how will a player know what they are getting into?

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  • Legend

I support that. Everything else is said in Olman´s post.

+1

I think you should add it here: http://www.dayzrp.com/t-wip-new-community-rules

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  • Sapphire

How will a player know there is a for sure firefight, what if they here gun shots and just think someone is shooting zombies or its one of the points in a firefight and not shooting is happening, how will a player know what they are getting into?

Its more than obvious 9/10 if im honest its not often you hear multiple bursts of heavy weapons in a short period of time for zombies.

If for example it is a somewhat "silent firefight" im not sure

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  • MVP

For fairness and clarity, I can agree with the blue addition. Sadly it really does need to be stated that looting is unfair during a firefight.

However, the point about 'having knowledge' of the fight must be stressed for IC knowledge. I don't mean by hearing one or two gunshots. I mean by actually seeing it take place and knowing that it is indeed a firefight.

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  • MVP

+ everything I can possibly give.

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Guest Alfie

All my yes. +1 Especially the blue section, but some points will need to be covered as issues could evolve from that. Just keep that in mind as there's a chance that people don't know if there's a gunfight.

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  • Sapphire

I support this.

#NewRule

Of course you do BHM are already on the list :P

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  • Community Manager

Moving to Suggestions.

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and how shall someone know who just came there and you maybe have a firing pause of that body belongs to you?And for how long?

sry, but making bodys after a firefight property of someone makes aswell no sense, as it will

arguing by saying "i heard shots, saw bodys so I looted them" doesn't need a new rule...

Its already in teh commen sense rule, to not risk your life in a firefight to check corpses.

just lead into confusion. therefor a big no from me

-1

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  • Legend

How will a player know there is a for sure firefight, what if they here gun shots and just think someone is shooting zombies or its one of the points in a firefight and not shooting is happening, how will a player know what they are getting into?

I think it is quiet simple. In the past we had alot of reports like this: "I heard gunshots so I did ran there"...you will actually never know what happend there unless you would run torwards it, but would you do that? Would you risk your life? I say No, no one would.

The actual rule, to ID your target, still stands. So if you would run in a firefight zone by accident (like you spawned in the area for example) and you would be killed, your killer failed to Id you.

I was once in a firefight at the Ravensnest. Civilians stayed there, even we told them (RSM and CLF) to leave, because it was a firefight. We said it in Text and voice. Some of them were unarmed. They refused to go. That´s no value for your own life and BadRp in my opinion. I saw people running straight to the bodies.

Someone shot an Civilian by accident because he was running inside the nest. He got reported, even we told him and the rest to leave. That´s unfair and a dick move in my opinion.

But it happen that people just run torwards the shots, ran to dead bodies, starts looting them, get killed in the process and then the Report comes up "I got killed, they failed to Id me".

If you hear shots, dont go there. Turn around, go the other way and stay alive.

Edit:

If you dont know that you are in a firefight and you don´t know that the bodie belongs in a firefight, then the "Always Id your target"-rule will cover you.

It should be the obligation of the Clans who are in the firefight to proof that there was actually a firefight. For example: A video. I remember a case, a guy got shot at Desal. He said he didnt know that there was a firefight. Yet in the video you could here massive gunfire.

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sounds like a good idea, some work needed to flush out any issues and confusion but I love it,

Timeframe of ownership ?

radius of fire fight area claimed ?

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  • Emerald

How will a player know there is a for sure firefight, what if they here gun shots and just think someone is shooting zombies or its one of the points in a firefight and not shooting is happening, how will a player know what they are getting into?

I think it is quiet simple. In the past we had alot of reports like this: "I heard gunshots so I did ran there"...you will actually never know what happend there unless you would run torwards it, but would you do that? Would you risk your life? I say No, no one would.

The actual rule, to ID your target, still stands. So if you would run in a firefight zone by accident (like you spawned in the area for example) and you would be killed, your killer failed to Id you.

I was once in a firefight at the Ravensnest. Civilians stayed there, even we told them (RSM and CLF) to leave, because it was a firefight. We said it in Text and voice. Some of them were unarmed. They refused to go. That´s no value for your own life and BadRp in my opinion. I saw people running straight to the bodies.

Someone shot an Civilian by accident because he was running inside the nest. He got reported, even we told him and the rest to leave. That´s unfair and a dick move in my opinion.

But it happen that people just run torwards the shots, ran to dead bodies, starts looting them, get killed in the process and then the Report comes up "I got killed, they failed to Id me".

If you hear shots, dont go there. Turn around, go the other way and stay alive.

I agree, a lot of the reports I have read, the person has said "I heard gunshots so i went to check it out..." thats their first mistake, then they say something along the lines of "I saw a dead body so I checked the gear..." Ok...gunshots+dead body=Get the hell out of their!

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Guest Katherine

But seriously

Roleplay over Gearplay

Its absolutely disgusting that a person can wiggle their way around the rules bend them, By taking the gear of the firefight that they weren't part of and just take it and go. There should be serious repercussions for this.

As been stated by people above, Its not valuing your life, Would you really run into a hostile zone to grab a mk 17 IRL? Granted this isn't real life, But i have attributed this to my point and shed light on the fact that it makes no logical sense to do so.

If you log in and a firefight happens leave. Don't go "YOLO" save the gear get killed and make a rage report about it because that is such a ass move to do and really only makes you look bad, And it isn't your killers fault.

Please try to leave the area, If you hear shots loop around go somewhere and come back another time

Thank you

Love Brandon

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Not that I disagree with anything above here but I am looking for possible loop holes or ways around it. So bear with me please...

What if somebody begins to loot a body "after" the firefight has finished, surely the "winning" clan will still believe the bodies are theirs so may shoot said looter/survivor, hopefully the clan would warn off the looter but it still may not work as you may be to far away for comms and then this will just cause an issue and cause reports for KOS (if you decided to kill them due to a new rule).

Scenario:

I spawn in at Devils, I hear no shots and I am running around enjoying myself for X amount of time and I see a dead body or two, I decide to go check them out and then *bang* I am dead?

Would this not be reported? You would have the clan in the firefight saying well you was looting a person we had killed 5-10 mins ago and the counter argument would be I did not hear any gun shots for X amount of time so how was I to know?

You cannot put all the responsibility on the curious survivor.

From personal experience of a fire fight I will happily wait a good amount of time before going to check a body because they could of had back up or maybe still guys hiding, you never really know when a firefight is over. Well until you risk it!!

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  • Emerald

I tend to agree with this. I can not count the amount of people I have killed looting bodies in my fire fight. In my eyes, no matter who, what, when, where, or how you came to be there, you are a direct threat to me and my allies. And I tend to believe that anyone I killed is my property. I must survive and any food, water, or ammo on that corpse is mine.

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  • Sapphire

I agree with this.

I can't believe people run into open firefights for loot only to get killed and then reports it afterwards... /facepalm

How will a player know there is a for sure firefight, what if they here gun shots and just think someone is shooting zombies or its one of the points in a firefight and not shooting is happening, how will a player know what they are getting into?

To be honest Jack it's fairly easy to distinguish between zombie shooting and a firefight, firefights usually have a lot of spraying in them whilst zombie killing is more like tap shooting headshots and stuff like that, if someone hear wild gunfire from a lot of different guns stay away.. It makes no sense for a person to run towards something that might put him in danger at all, even zombie killing makes no sense, why run to a loud spot where zombies are hoarding up?

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  • Legend

Not that I disagree with anything above here but I am looking for possible loop holes or ways around it. So bear with me please...

What if somebody begins to loot a body "after" the firefight has finished, surely the "winning" clan will still believe the bodies are theirs so may shoot said looter/survivor, hopefully the clan would warn off the looter but it still may not work as you may be to far away for comms and then this will just cause an issue and cause reports for KOS (if you decided to kill them due to a new rule).

Scenario:

I spawn in at Devils, I hear no shots and I am running around enjoying myself for X amount of time and I see a dead body or two, I decide to go check them out and then *bang* I am dead?

Would this not be reported? You would have the clan in the firefight saying well you was looting a person we had killed 5-10 mins ago and the counter argument would be I did not hear any gun shots for X amount of time so how was I to know?

You cannot put all the responsibility on the curious survivor.

From personal experience of a fire fight I will happily wait a good amount of time before going to check a body because they could of had back up or maybe still guys hiding, you never really know when a firefight is over. Well until you risk it!!

As I stated before: If you dont know that you are in a firefight and you don´t know that the bodie belongs in a firefight, then the "Always Id your target"-rule will cover you.

It should be the obligation of the Clans who are in the firefight to proof that there was actually a firefight.

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Guest MARTiN

Not that I disagree with anything above here but I am looking for possible loop holes or ways around it. So bear with me please...

What if somebody begins to loot a body "after" the firefight has finished, surely the "winning" clan will still believe the bodies are theirs so may shoot said looter/survivor, hopefully the clan would warn off the looter but it still may not work as you may be to far away for comms and then this will just cause an issue and cause reports for KOS (if you decided to kill them due to a new rule).

Scenario:

I spawn in at Devils, I hear no shots and I am running around enjoying myself for X amount of time and I see a dead body or two, I decide to go check them out and then *bang* I am dead?

Would this not be reported? You would have the clan in the firefight saying well you was looting a person we had killed 5-10 mins ago and the counter argument would be I did not hear any gun shots for X amount of time so how was I to know?

You cannot put all the responsibility on the curious survivor.

From personal experience of a fire fight I will happily wait a good amount of time before going to check a body because they could of had back up or maybe still guys hiding, you never really know when a firefight is over. Well until you risk it!!

If you see a deadbody with gear, i would say, try to look around, if you see more dead bodies, run.

Now another possibility is that you study the body and if you OOC reconise the name and hes in a clan, dont touch it. I guess you could check the playerlist and check, but thats meta gaming i guess(?)

And as you said, its hard to know when a firefight is over, a firefight can last for a very very long time, but imo a rule like this is needed. But in another mod ive played, when you study the bodies you could see what they died from, e.g gunshot to the head.

A good example of a case where this rule is good to have is a firefight we in SDS had a couple of days ago, there were bodies all over the place and somebody at prud said "there is a firefight at LOCATION" a few guys from a clan went there and looted bodies, now, at that moment most of SDS were dead and we were 3 guys left that tried to flank. And when we saw people running around at the trees where the firefight took place, ofcourse we open fire, killed one of them and they made a report. Luckily we solved it through TS and they were understanding.

I dont want to point fingers on who sis what with this example. If the clan that were involved with this example dont want me to use it, PM me.

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Guest Nykke

Maybe if there is no on going firefight and its just a few snipers waiting each other out. It should be allowed to give a warning shot in case of this happening instead of just killing the person stright away. if the person then still decides too loot the body after the warning shot he may be shot.

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  • Emerald

Maybe if there is no on going firefight and its just a few snipers waiting each other out. It should be allowed to give a warning shot in case of this happening instead of just killing the person stright away. if the person then still decides too loot the body after the warning shot he may be shot.

Yes, but the warning shot will give them legit KOS rights on you. I'd personally rather kill them then have one more person able to kill me.

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