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SweetJoe

Civilians acting with groups

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SweetJoe    278

Hello everyone. I have a question as i am a little confused with it.

How far can a civilian, a non-clan member, act with a clan? ive seen alot of people who run around with groups on the regular, get in shoot out with the groups, and gather intelligence for groups. I'm not saying i have a problem with it, i dont, just came to mind that im not exactly sure if there are any rules regarding civs and this.

Now, you dont share KOS rights. the civ would only be able to fire on someone when? when the group gets initiated on? or if he witnesses a hostile action to take advantage of good Samaritan. Good Samaritan does not apply if the group was the aggressor does it?

Now can you use someone for an extended period of time as a spy, someone doesnt have an xml. i mean to say, they roll into an area, survey the scene, and relay information as a civ back to the clan hes working with?

also if this group has i dont know 4 civs working with it, and they raid a camp and those 4 civs are a part of it, what rights do they have if they didnt initiate? i dont think they can shoot anyone or commit hostile action on anyone based on the rules. am i wrong? do they not have to initiate?

I'm just curious sitting here early in the morning. i was thinking about some things and i hope this post is understandable. just wondering what people think.

I've seen alot of interclan, Civ/clan, play lately which i think it great. also seen alot of confusing situations where it appears theres 4 civs and 3 clan members that are all claiming to act as a clan. i dont have a problem either way, i like the roleplay of it when i saw it.

well. im going to click post now. if you can clarify the rule for me, give me an opinion, or tell me a story or any good clan/civ experiences and or bad ones. that would be great.

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Guest magw33d   
Guest magw33d

The civilian needs to be in hearing range of the initiation to receive full KOS rights instantly.

If he is fired upon by an individual, he receives KOS rights for that person.

If he is fired upon by someone from a group, he receives KOS rights for that group.

I agree with you on how confusing it may be, and often civ groups who are initiated on get confused on how the KOS rights get transferred to them when they are in a settlement. They end up shooting everyone left right and centre in a mass fury.

It's also difficult for initiators who engage with groups in the wilderness, and there is a set of teammates hanging out with a civ not too far away. The civ can often get KoS'd by the initiator and likewise unjustly shoot at the bandits.

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SweetJoe    278

im clear on those, what do you think about using them as informants and inside men?

having a guy or two inside in radio contact with your group, so you can have 2 guns inside if anyone decides not to comply? i personally prefer them not to use there guns in that situation and only relay info.

by the way David, i love that picture you have.

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MartinJ    1

im clear on those, what do you think about using them as informants and inside men?

I think it's incredibly clever and realistic. It would be exactly what I'd do if I had a survival group that is at odds with another. Look at Walking Dead, they are very cautious towards individuals who come out of nowhere to join them, during the war with the Governor's group they questioned everything. That's how it should be, if you're in an open conflict - basically, war - then your opportunities for normal human contact are limited, because potentially anyone is an enemy.

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Guest magw33d   
Guest magw33d

im clear on those, what do you think about using them as informants and inside men?

having a guy or two inside in radio contact with your group, so you can have 2 guns inside if anyone decides not to comply? i personally prefer them not to use there guns in that situation and only relay info.

by the way David, i love that picture you have.

This would definitely get you a banstrike or two. You can't initiate over radio in any way.

KoS rights cannot be handed over via comms.

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MartinJ    1

This would definitely get you a banstrike or two. You can't initiate over radio in any way.

KoS rights cannot be handed over via comms.

That's not how I understand his question.

Group A attacks Group B at their outpost.

Inside the outpost, Group A has 2 allies who don't have clantags (hired help, mercenaries, another group, whatever).

Group A initiates (within range of the allies).

A fight between Group A and Group B ensues, and from the inside, the 2 insiders also want to attack Group B. Question is, at that point, do they have to initiate as well?

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SweetJoe    278

yes i agree. i like the roleplay aspect of it too. but my question comes in regards to the rules of it. since the only rule i can think of is the "no sharing KOS rights unless directly involved", and ive heard griping about this tactic, i figured why not make an open discussion.

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TrilbyAsh    6

Generally, if a Civ is rolling with a bandit group, he can't shoot upon someone that the group initiated on, he'll have to initiate himself as well.

As for being initiated on, he has to hear the initiation himself to gain KoS rights. He could be sitting as a sniper in the forest, but he can only fire in a Good Samaritan situation, and of course, has to make sure that the group he's trying to "Save" won't die as a byproduct of his actions.

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SweetJoe    278

This would definitely get you a banstrike or two. You can't initiate over radio in any way.

KoS rights cannot be handed over via comms.

That's not how I understand his question.

Group A attacks Group B at their outpost.

Inside the outpost, Group A has 2 allies who don't have clantags (hired help, mercenaries, another group, whatever).

Group A initiates (within range of the allies).

A fight between Group A and Group B ensues, and from the inside, the 2 insiders also want to attack Group B. Question is, at that point, do they have to initiate as well?

well done. thank you.


Generally, if a Civ is rolling with a bandit group, he can't shoot upon someone that the group initiated on, he'll have to initiate himself as well.

As for being initiated on, he has to hear the initiation himself to gain KoS rights. He could be sitting as a sniper in the forest, but he can only fire in a Good Samaritan situation, and of course, has to make sure that the group he's trying to "Save" won't die as a byproduct of his actions.

Could you apply this to the last mans example and see if the civs have the right to fight? cause im seeing by this bandit informants have no right to fight unless they text initiate(because of the log) and voice initiate right after the attacking group rolls up.

btw...martin, i like your picture as well.

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Guest magw33d   
Guest magw33d

This would definitely get you a banstrike or two. You can't initiate over radio in any way.

KoS rights cannot be handed over via comms.

That's not how I understand his question.

Group A attacks Group B at their outpost.

Inside the outpost, Group A has 2 allies who don't have clantags (hired help, mercenaries, another group, whatever).

Group A initiates (within range of the allies).

A fight between Group A and Group B ensues, and from the inside, the 2 insiders also want to attack Group B. Question is, at that point, do they have to initiate as well?

Yes, they would.

They also wouldn't be able to use the Good Samaritan rule as they would be attacking the victims, not the offenders.

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TrilbyAsh    6

As I said. Civs with an attacking group, have to initiate as well.

Civs with a defending group, don't have to initiate, as long as they heard the initiation personally, or can apply the Good Samaritan.

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MartinJ    1

Makes a lot of sense then. To break it down:

In my example (Group A attacks Group B in an outpost, Group A has insiders in the outpost), the insiders have to initiate separately.

If the example is a bit twisted (Group A attacks Group B in an outpost, Group B has insiders within Group A), the insiders can betray and attack the attacking group.

Something similar basically happened when a group of civilians set out to attack the CRA, where the CRA had insiders within that group and once the fight broke out - civilians attacking CRA - the insiders betrayed and shot the attackers from behind. So that was valid.

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SweetJoe    278

thats basically why i posted this, to clarify things for myself and anyone else who had a problem with this.

I've seen this before. many many times done legit and not legit. never complained, because in game, it makes you paranoid. there is alot of this going on. everyone without a tag can be an operative currently.

it makes for good fun.

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Upshot    0

mmwwaaahaha..

I'd be doomed if half of what was wrote wasn't allowed. :P

Now, you dont share KOS rights. the civ would only be able to fire on someone when? when the group gets initiated on? or if he witnesses a hostile action to take advantage of good Samaritan. Good Samaritan does not apply if the group was the aggressor does it

If the group initiates, the civilians would have to initiate separately and make it well known that they are indeed with the initial aggressors. We had to do this every time we were working with the S.K.A, even if the people they initiated on decided to shoot back and not comply, we wouldn't be able to help the S.K.A unless we made it known we were with them. Good Samaritan doesn't work because you have no idea who the aggressor is and who the innocent people are, infact, we'd be able to shoot the S.K.A if we wanted to betray them in said scenarios. :D

Now can you use someone for an extended period of time as a spy, someone doesnt have an xml. i mean to say, they roll into an area, survey the scene, and relay information as a civ back to the clan hes working with?

We were Assassins/Informants and did this very often too, nothing wrong with Civilians working with clans as long as they are 100% aware that they do not share the same rights as the clan, KoS rights, etc, they are a completely separate entity and must act accordingly for any actions taken.

also if this group has i dont know 4 civs working with it, and they raid a camp and those 4 civs are a part of it, what rights do they have if they didnt initiate? i dont think they can shoot anyone or commit hostile action on anyone based on the rules. am i wrong? do they not have to initiate?

They have to initiate separately or the clan has to make it known that the individuals are part of the initiation when writing out their initiation. No person can just 'decide' they want to be a part of any initiation, you must make it clear you are involved before being able to pull that trigger on anybody who doesn't comply.

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Upshot    0

We used to work for the S.K.A, updated my previous post. We were involved in several things with them, and it can indeed get very confusing if you don't know what the fuck you are doing.

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SweetJoe    278

mmwwaaahaha..

I'd be doomed if half of what was wrote wasn't allowed. :P

Now, you dont share KOS rights. the civ would only be able to fire on someone when? when the group gets initiated on? or if he witnesses a hostile action to take advantage of good Samaritan. Good Samaritan does not apply if the group was the aggressor does it

If the group initiates, the civilians would have to initiate separately and make it well known that they are indeed with the initial aggressors. We had to do this every time we were working with the S.K.A, even if the people they initiated on decided to shoot back and not comply, we wouldn't be able to help the S.K.A unless we made it known we were with them. Good Samaritan doesn't work because you have no idea who the aggressor is and who the innocent people are, infact, we'd be able to shoot the S.K.A if we wanted to betray them in said scenarios. :D

Now can you use someone for an extended period of time as a spy, someone doesnt have an xml. i mean to say, they roll into an area, survey the scene, and relay information as a civ back to the clan hes working with?

We were Assassins/Informants and did this very often too, nothing wrong with Civilians working with clans as long as they are 100% aware that they do not share the same rights as the clan, KoS rights, etc, they are a completely separate entity and must act accordingly for any actions taken.

also if this group has i dont know 4 civs working with it, and they raid a camp and those 4 civs are a part of it, what rights do they have if they didnt initiate? i dont think they can shoot anyone or commit hostile action on anyone based on the rules. am i wrong? do they not have to initiate?

They have to initiate separately or the clan has to make it known that the individuals are part of the initiation when writing out their initiation. No person can just 'decide' they want to be a part of any initiation, you must make it clear you are involved before being able to pull that trigger on anybody who doesn't comply.

hahaha

Bobby Rice Is an official on this subject. Take notes those of you who do this sort of stuff and bobby rice will keep you from getting banned!

^true satement that....but if you dont listen to him you will get banned...

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