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Server time (UTC): 2023-02-09 10:08

CR's having bad RP


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I want to start off by saying this isn't a flaming thread.

Now, I went to Desal earlier tonight to RP with some friends who were there. About a half hour later another friend pops up on TS, and says he wants to roleplay our gay characters so I move away from the plant and switch to my alt.

When I come back I'm greeted by a CR (he's from SASR, his name was Henry) who asked for I.D. I'm fine with being asked, but this character doesn't carry I.D. and he refuses to. So I tell him my characters name, say I've been here before no problems, and he refuses to let me pass. That, again is fine, but the next thing he does is he asks to frisk me for a clan patch. I agree to that, and when he's finished he goes out of character to tell me now I need to type in chat to confirm I'm not with a group. At this point it's starting to get a bit ridiculous. The last straw was when he went OOC in voice and started telling me I need to type while I was trying to RP a way to get in. Finally I settle with saying I'll fill out formal paperwork, and instead he just tries to hand me a ripped scrap of paper.

I can handle bad RP. I understand not everyone is good at RP. I can handle people going OOC in chat, but the OOC voice crap wasn't needed. To be fair the chat OOC stuff wan't needed either. He easily could have RP'd it out, but instead tried to take a shortcut and ended up ruining the immersion for several people.

If you're a CR, stop asking people to write their names on scraps of paper so you can metagame their affiliations. If a character doesn't have I.D. and wants to be let in, at least have them sign a formal document or a check in/ out list. Be fucking creative, because it's terrible RP, and it's quite obvious you just want to metagame at that point.

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  • Emerald

If someone ever asks me to write my name on a scrap of paper, I will write my name as Bruce Wayne.

I agree, it is a terrible practice, it is obviously done for the purpose of metagaming. Going out of character in chat like that is very poor practice. Going out of character in voice is a HUGE no-no as far as I am concerned.

If someone does not have ID, either don't let them in, or accept that their name is what they say it is. It is not a CRs responsibility to let people into a camp, it is instead their responsibility to keep anyone they do not feel should be there from entering. If someone does not convince you that they are someone who should be allowed in, send them away.

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I'm hoping he sees this and rethinks how he acts.

I nearly filed a report, but instead of going to drastic levels I wanted him to know what he's doing wrong rather than just getting him in trouble. I can't tell what upsets me more either, the OOC stuff, or the fact he didn't even try to RP outside asking for I.D.

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Metagaming your name? He was merely metagaming your clan because it doesn't show on some skins, which might I add, is within the rules. You're arguing that he went OOC? So what? It was needed because of the skins not always showing badges. I do not know if you are aware of the strains of being a CR, but as of now there are only two settlements, which are highly populated. A CR cannot leave the gate to make someone fill out 'formal' documents, where do you think he'll get them from anyway? If he leaves the gate, then people can get in who are not allowed. So just write your name down and get on with it.

Personally at Altar, you're not allowed in if you don't have I'd, we don't let people writes their names down, they just can't come in, so you should think yourself lucky. We have the odd occasion where we make someone an ID, but its quite a long process, and can be interrupted by the noise at a settlement.

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Metagaming your name? He was merely metagaming your clan because it doesn't show on some skins, which might I add, is within the rules. You're arguing that he went OOC? So what? It was needed because of the skins not always showing badges. I do not know if you are aware of the strains of being a CR, but as of now there are only two settlements, which are highly populated. A CR cannot leave the gate to make someone fill out 'formal' documents, where do you think he'll get them from anyway? If he leaves the gate, then people can get in who are not allowed. So just write your name down and get on with it.

Personally at Altar, you're not allowed in if you don't have I'd, we don't let people writes their names down, they just can't come in, so you should think yourself lucky. We have the odd occasion where we make someone an ID, but its quite a long process, and can be interrupted by the noise at a settlement.

I told him my name, he can check the player list. Which is basically the same as a fake I.D.

He could have left the post as there were a couple other CR's on, and it was low population anyway.

Going OOC is very rarely okay. This wasn't a time to use it as I was clearly trying to RP the situation out. Going OOC in voice isn't okay either, and it wasn't needed. Are you telling me a clan can't RP having a clipboard at the entrance for sign in/ out?

I'm not against signing paperwork either, but put some fucking effort into it besides just demanding I.D. and then not knowing what to do when a character doesn't carry it. This is a RP community, if you can't find ways to RP situations out then something is wrong and you're not playing right.


If you think it is worthy of a report record and report. And make a discussion. Going OOC for pointless things like that is pathetic.

I thought about doing it, but I had talked to Toorik right after it happened, and he advised me that unless I had proof it would just waste time. If I can I'll try to get ahold of some of the people I was there with and see if they recorded, but there's also chatlogs anyway.

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Metagaming your name? He was merely metagaming your clan because it doesn't show on some skins, which might I add, is within the rules. You're arguing that he went OOC? So what? It was needed because of the skins not always showing badges. I do not know if you are aware of the strains of being a CR, but as of now there are only two settlements, which are highly populated. A CR cannot leave the gate to make someone fill out 'formal' documents, where do you think he'll get them from anyway? If he leaves the gate, then people can get in who are not allowed. So just write your name down and get on with it.

Personally at Altar, you're not allowed in if you don't have I'd, we don't let people writes their names down, they just can't come in, so you should think yourself lucky. We have the odd occasion where we make someone an ID, but its quite a long process, and can be interrupted by the noise at a settlement.

I think most people realize being a CR is not easy BUT if there are multiple CR on at the settlement then you should ask for help to fill out the documents .

I also agree with a sign in sign out type thing if your on your own or even as a stop block to wait till later when more CR are on to do formal documents rather than " hands scrap paper " , try " hands clipboard " please fill out your name on here .

I don't think he is trying to tar everyone in the same brush , 501st guys have always been pretty good when i have been there so please don't get defensive its just suggestions to help improve.

:)

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Metagaming your name? He was merely metagaming your clan because it doesn't show on some skins, which might I add, is within the rules. You're arguing that he went OOC? So what? It was needed because of the skins not always showing badges. I do not know if you are aware of the strains of being a CR, but as of now there are only two settlements, which are highly populated. A CR cannot leave the gate to make someone fill out 'formal' documents, where do you think he'll get them from anyway? If he leaves the gate, then people can get in who are not allowed. So just write your name down and get on with it.

Personally at Altar, you're not allowed in if you don't have I'd, we don't let people writes their names down, they just can't come in, so you should think yourself lucky. We have the odd occasion where we make someone an ID, but its quite a long process, and can be interrupted by the noise at a settlement.

I think most people realize being a CR is not easy BUT if there are multiple CR on at the settlement then you should ask for help to fill out the documents .

I also agree with a sign in sign out type thing if your on your own or even as a stop block to wait till later when more CR are on to do formal documents rather than " hands scrap paper " , try " hands clipboard " please fill out your name on here .

I don't think he is trying to tar everyone in the same brush , 501st guys have always been pretty good when i have been there so please don't get defensive its just suggestions to help improve.

:)

I actually mentioned who it was. I know not all CR's are like this, but this isn't the first time I've experienced this kind of thing at a settlement.

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I know manditory ID showing has been brought up as a problem before, but forcing people to write a name down only so you can metagame is a little much. CR's already have a metric ton of extra privileges, why not let people in and if they do something, use them. If someone is being a bother to people, kick them out. Give people a chance to actually RP and if you absolutely need proof of a persons identity, role play it out. They don't have a liscense anymore, give them one. In a post apocalyptic scenario you can't expect everyone to still have their wallet.

Now on to the metagaming part, as this is becoming more common. People aren't going to have their affiliations stamped on a passport or drivers liscense. You need to ask if they are affliated and not just metagame it from when they type in chat or look at the player list. Everyone does it, so OOC you know, so what. Roleplay it out. People come to your settlement to take a break or roleplay, why turn everyone away because they either don't roleplay having a form of identification or show a fake ID. Constantly being hostile to people visiting is also very offputting and will drive people away. It is bad enough to all you do is sit at your camp, might as well make it friendly enough to make people want to come check it out.

Continuing on my tirade is the additions of "CR areas". Now, it would make sense to add some towers that the average Joe shouldn't be allowed in, for everyone's safety, but having the majority of your camp, DESAL, off limits is kinda dumb. CR's are spending more time policing the no no zones then RPing or watching for bad guys. Also, how are people suppose to help defend when they are bared from getting on the ramparts? Is it expected for all visitors, whether they are miliary or not, to just surrender and stand by the allotted campfire space?

Lastly the thing I want to bring up is camp representatives just poofing into the camp whenever, especially in heated times. I have seen on multiple occasions where a sole CR might be handling a situation or there might not be a CR on at all and then BOOM, magical CRs show up out of no where. In the past, I have witnessed where CRs will have been woken up from their sleep and come see what is the ruckus, but CRs logging on up in towers ready to defend is kinda pushing it. It makes no RP sense for you to just show up inside the camp and automatically know everything that is going on. I have even witnessed a CR show up inside the big tower at Altar and initate on people on the inside.

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I know manditory ID showing has been brought up as a problem before, but forcing people to write a name down only so you can metagame is a little much. CR's already have a metric ton of extra privileges, why not let people in and if they do something, use them. If someone is being a bother to people, kick them out. Give people a chance to actually RP and if you absolutely need proof of a persons identity, role play it out. They don't have a liscense anymore, give them one. In a post apocalyptic scenario you can't expect everyone to still have their wallet.

Now on to the metagaming part, as this is becoming more common. People aren't going to have their affiliations stamped on a passport or drivers liscense. You need to ask if they are affliated and not just metagame it from when they type in chat or look at the player list. Everyone does it, so OOC you know, so what. Roleplay it out. People come to your settlement to take a break or roleplay, why turn everyone away because they either don't roleplay having a form of identification or show a fake ID. Constantly being hostile to people visiting is also very offputting and will drive people away. It is bad enough to all you do is sit at your camp, might as well make it friendly enough to make people want to come check it out.

Continuing on my tirade is the additions of "CR areas". Now, it would make sense to add some towers that the average Joe shouldn't be allowed in, for everyone's safety, but having the majority of your camp, DESAL, off limits is kinda dumb. CR's are spending more time policing the no no zones then RPing or watching for bad guys. Also, how are people suppose to help defend when they are bared from getting on the ramparts? Is it expected for all visitors, whether they are miliary or not, to just surrender and stand by the allotted campfire space?

Lastly the thing I want to bring up is camp representatives just poofing into the camp whenever, especially in heated times. I have seen on multiple occasions where a sole CR might be handling a situation or there might not be a CR on at all and then BOOM, magical CRs show up out of no where. In the past, I have witnessed where CRs will have been woken up from their sleep and come see what is the ruckus, but CRs logging on up in towers ready to defend is kinda pushing it. It makes no RP sense for you to just show up inside the camp and automatically know everything that is going on. I have even witnessed a CR show up inside the big tower at Altar and initate on people on the inside.

This, all of this. +1

Thank you for this post, it was everything I have a problem with and more. I'd also like to thank you for attempting to help me when the incident was going on.

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Guest whitepointer

Record and report man, with information like this we are able to chat with anyone who doesn't fully understand whats what - in contrast with the SASR example.

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  • Legend

I think most people realize being a CR is not easy BUT if there are multiple CR on at the settlement then you should ask for help to fill out the documents .

When are there ever multiple CR's at a settlement most get killed of in a raid then the others get killed in another raid about an hour later, so none of us can go back for 2 hours meaning the settlement has very few CR's or none at all.

And this is a regular thing for Altar to the point CR's have had enough of it all

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Record and report man, with information like this we are able to chat with anyone who doesn't fully understand whats what - in contrast with the SASR example.

I had actually talked to toorik after it happened. Unless one of the people was with was recording and can get me that recording I don't think I'll pursue a report because I don't want to waste admin time.

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Speaking from a personal standpoint...

I'm honestly tired of the generic: "ID?" Followed with: "No? Alright. I'm going to frisk you to see if you have a dog tag or something."

If someone wants to hide their affiliations, by not bringing an ID (Which wouldn't even have a little [FM]/[TOR]/[sVR]/[CA] tag or anything to start with...) They'd simply not bring anything that might tie them to someone.

Perhaps a low-key bandit wants to hop into a settlement, he'll be asked for an ID, and then he'll be frisked, and if he still doesn't show any forms of connection to a group...Well. What's the problem? Let the poor bugger in. To you, he's just a civilian you've not liked the look of. You shouldn't stop him, because OOCly, you might have seen a little [sVR] tag. If he's gone to the dang trouble to disguise himself and such so that he literally doesn't seem to be part of a bandit group, what's the problem? From a rules standpoint, this should prevent him from actually taking part in a raid; should SVR turn up after he's allowed in, he can't do squat to you. He could relay information from the inside, sure, but he's not allowed to shoot anyone. Why? Because he's declared himself to the server as a civilian, even if he isn't generally.

It reminds me of the time back when I first came on to the server. We never fussed about IDs, all that we cared about was if people were friendly or not. And if someone declared themselves as "Friendly" to someone else; they weren't allowed to commit any form of hostile action against the person they'd declared it to.

So a Bandit declaring themselves as a Civilian, is much like the person in the old days who said: "Friendly." Except he's declaring it to a whole camp, and as such, can't take hostile action against the camp should his clan mates appear. Nor can he initiate on anyone on -behalf- of their clan. He could initiate by his lonesome if he wanted to, or he can pass on information via a radio, should he not have had his taken off him at entry.

Right, sorry that it got a little off the desired mark, but that's pretty much why the whole "ID? FRISK!" Thing occurs. Because they're scared of bandits coming in, and harming them from the inside.

As for the chap going unnecessarily OOC, keep an eye out, and a recording device handy. If it ever happens again, record it and report it. Either for Attempted Metagaming, or Unnecessary OOC.

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I think most people realize being a CR is not easy BUT if there are multiple CR on at the settlement then you should ask for help to fill out the documents .

When are there ever multiple CR's at a settlement most get killed of in a raid then the others get killed in another raid about an hour later, so none of us can go back for 2 hours meaning the settlement has very few CR's or none at all.

And this is a regular thing for Altar to the point CR's have had enough of it all

Hey i don't disagree but saying that before you guys became hostile to us whenever i went there , there was always 2 or 3 there all the time and your RP was very good.

The attacks well that is a separate issue which there is a thread for.

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Speaking from a personal standpoint...

I'm honestly tired of the generic: "ID?" Followed with: "No? Alright. I'm going to frisk you to see if you have a dog tag or something."

If someone wants to hide their affiliations, by not bringing an ID (Which wouldn't even have a little [FM]/[TOR]/[sVR]/[CA] tag or anything to start with...) They'd simply not bring anything that might tie them to someone.

Perhaps a low-key bandit wants to hop into a settlement, he'll be asked for an ID, and then he'll be frisked, and if he still doesn't show any forms of connection to a group...Well. What's the problem? Let the poor bugger in. To you, he's just a civilian you've not liked the look of. You shouldn't stop him, because OOCly, you might have seen a little [sVR] tag. If he's gone to the dang trouble to disguise himself and such so that he literally doesn't seem to be part of a bandit group, what's the problem? From a rules standpoint, this should prevent him from actually taking part in a raid; should SVR turn up after he's allowed in, he can't do squat to you. He could relay information from the inside, sure, but he's not allowed to shoot anyone. Why? Because he's declared himself to the server as a civilian, even if he isn't generally.

It reminds me of the time back when I first came on to the server. We never fussed about IDs, all that we cared about was if people were friendly or not. And if someone declared themselves as "Friendly" to someone else; they weren't allowed to commit any form of hostile action against the person they'd declared it to.

So a Bandit declaring themselves as a Civilian, is much like the person in the old days who said: "Friendly." Except he's declaring it to a whole camp, and as such, can't take hostile action against the camp should his clan mates appear. Nor can he initiate on anyone on -behalf- of their clan. He could initiate by his lonesome if he wanted to, or he can pass on information via a radio, should he not have had his taken off him at entry.

Right, sorry that it got a little off the desired mark, but that's pretty much why the whole "ID? FRISK!" Thing occurs. Because they're scared of bandits coming in, and harming them from the inside.

As for the chap going unnecessarily OOC, keep an eye out, and a recording device handy. If it ever happens again, record it and report it. Either for Attempted Metagaming, or Unnecessary OOC.

Ash just put out all I planned on saying.

The ID thing needs to go down a bit,since it's ridicolous and also annyoing.If I don't have an ID,then your settlement should either issue IDs for everyone to have(and have stamp that approve their entrance in that settlement) or just try to find other means.

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  • Sapphire

I believe hooneytang was recording this incident.

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  • Sapphire

It may be better to, later on, check if the guy is on TS and send him a poke and tell him "hey man, wasn't to impressed with your RP at Desal half an hour ago - here are some pointers I can give you [give the gent some pointers]" rather than publicly embarrassing him on the forums.

If the man isn't on TS send myself or another high ranking SASR member a pm and tell us that someone along the same lines as above and we'll pass the message on. We always push to make sure all our clan members are providing the very best roleplay. Unfortunately being such a big clan it's not really possible to watch every single person.

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  • Emerald

Personally at Altar, you're not allowed in if you don't have I'd, we don't let people writes their names down, they just can't come in, so you should think yourself lucky.

Cause everyone carries their driving license in their back pocket in a zombie apocalypse.

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  • MVP

Personally at Altar, you're not allowed in if you don't have I'd, we don't let people writes their names down, they just can't come in, so you should think yourself lucky.

Cause everyone carries their driving license in their back pocket in a zombie apocalypse.

Cause everyone visiting are nice folks.

To be perfectly honest, anyone complaining about not being able to enter becouse of ID check should just turn around and leave from camp - simple.

CRs are regular humans, aiming to have some fun for both themselves and others, some people are to be allowed,some aren't of entry, means of identification in game are poor and they have every right to limit entries inside. Every visitor is highly potential threat, threat that may turn a camp into yet another firefight. If CRs would let everyone as they go camps would be a constant shithole and nobody would enjoy it, and if CRs don't enjoy it - then they will shutdown the camp, GG & GJ to assholes that contributed.

Instead of focusing about RP aspect, look at highly more important one - fun/strength of a human playing on the other side of a cable there. You are one out of thousand when there is only a group of 20/30 CRs to handle the mess.

If you don't like rules at a camp - don't visit it, pure and simple.

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  • Emerald

Personally at Altar, you're not allowed in if you don't have I'd, we don't let people writes their names down, they just can't come in, so you should think yourself lucky.

Cause everyone carries their driving license in their back pocket in a zombie apocalypse.

Cause everyone visiting are nice folks.

To be perfectly honest, anyone complaining about not being able to enter becouse of ID check should just turn around and leave from camp - simple.

CRs are regular humans, aiming to have some fun for both themselves and others, some people are to be allowed,some aren't of entry, means of identification in game are poor and they have every right to limit entries inside. Every visitor is highly potential threat, threat that may turn a camp into yet another firefight. If CRs would let everyone as they go camps would be a constant shithole and nobody would enjoy it, and if CRs don't enjoy it - then they will shutdown the camp, GG & GJ to assholes that contributed.

Instead of focusing about RP aspect, look at highly more important one - fun/strength of a human playing on the other side of a cable there. You are one out of thousand when there is only a group of 20/30 CRs to handle the mess.

If you don't like rules at a camp - don't visit it, pure and simple.

+1

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Personally at Altar, you're not allowed in if you don't have I'd, we don't let people writes their names down, they just can't come in, so you should think yourself lucky.

Cause everyone carries their driving license in their back pocket in a zombie apocalypse.

Cause everyone visiting are nice folks.

To be perfectly honest, anyone complaining about not being able to enter becouse of ID check should just turn around and leave from camp - simple.

CRs are regular humans, aiming to have some fun for both themselves and others, some people are to be allowed,some aren't of entry, means of identification in game are poor and they have every right to limit entries inside. Every visitor is highly potential threat, threat that may turn a camp into yet another firefight. If CRs would let everyone as they go camps would be a constant shithole and nobody would enjoy it, and if CRs don't enjoy it - then they will shutdown the camp, GG & GJ to assholes that contributed.

Instead of focusing about RP aspect, look at highly more important one - fun/strength of a human playing on the other side of a cable there. You are one out of thousand when there is only a group of 20/30 CRs to handle the mess.

If you don't like rules at a camp - don't visit it, pure and simple.

Or hows about if they don't have id then they get refused entry ....

there is NO excuse to go ooc none what so ever in such a situation the CRs get enough protection as it is let alone giving them permission to go ooc when they please :)

personally ANY ooc parts in my presence ruin my own immersion and cause me to leave the area .... its unacceptable in my view .... naming and shaming is also an effective way of getting told members to quit it so keep it up

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  • MVP

Or hows about if they don't have id then they get refused entry ....

there is NO excuse to go ooc none what so ever in such a situation the CRs get enough protection as it is let alone giving them permission to go ooc when they please :)

personally ANY ooc parts in my presence ruin my own immersion and cause me to leave the area .... its unacceptable in my view .... naming and shaming is also an effective way of getting told members to quit it so keep it up

It's solely up to CRs who they accept in, if they don't want to let someone in - then they should nicely roleplay the denial. It all comes down not to 'if' they can do that, but 'how'. 'IF' is non discusabble and is not part of 'OOC mechanics' to harm you. You say OOC, I say giving fair chance to CRs to do their thing and have camp somewhat working without bigger issues. They can't go OOC as they please but if it has to do with their duties/actions within CR stuff - you can't be serious about telling it's wrong. If they go OOC about nonCR related things - they are just as regular folk as you and regular server rules apply.

CRs are always boned, they don't have enough protection - your perspective is flawed, come back when you will have a CR experience throughout more than a week/two of regular playing. You will understand then it's a pain to maintain a camp and rules while giving some protection - don't work fully making more pleasant atmosphere within the camp. If it would be otherwise - we wouldn't hear about constant robberies/firefights and other shizzle would we? Of course, it's highly dependant on CRs, there are better and worse clans out there for the job,many factors are to be counted. But at the end of a day - they are regular folks with hell of a stressing and not rewarding in end challange. There is a group of them against a potential thousand of problems.

Let me reitarate it again for you,

1. Nobody forces you to go to any camp

2. Nobody forces you to accept rules of said camp, you can always ask for different treatement but it's CRs good will to allow different treatement.

3. Identification mechanics are literally non existant, people can change names,clothes,come all the time to troll/rob, CRs good of limiting entries is their most sacred power. I bet my beard, if dayzrp finally would have delivered some features that were presented months ago (like for instance set of 2 tops whitelisted characters (different player names)),clan skins and few more - CRs would not that often resort to 'ID' checks. But at current state - 'ID' checks is all they've got. Rest they have is good will and gamble.

By Haven experience, we have had very restricted policies (atleast CLF did as RSM tended to work other way...) on who gets in. Depending on amount of folks online,CRs present the number of people being let in varied but general tendency was such : We made all efforts to cut down on amounts of visitors. Including 'ID' checks.

You call it ruining...

YR4y.jpg

But I'll call it - compromise for better good. Good of somewhat working camp, camp CRs want to run and a camp you (obviously as you are participating in this discussion in such fashion ) want to visit. Ask yourself how hard is it for you to deal with 'harm on immersion' when confronted with total lack or small presence of camps/CRs overall?

Becouse I assure you, if CRs would not be able to deny entry based on lack of 'identification' they wouldn't bother with active presence/running camp at all.

4. Only what is questionable is 'how' they deny entry, but that's a tiny problem. Not worth of bigger discussion.

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ok to put this to bed, i was the person (harry) that asked for id. when i asked you if i could frisk search you for a clan patch i needed to see your patch if you had one, seeing if you didnt have one. i needed to see you type so that the frisk could be completed. (Note- didnt search you for id.) and another thing, if someone frisks you for something you have to present it exception being id, so if when i frisked you for you patch i needed to see if you had one hence why you needed to type.

the reason why i spoke ooc was because i typed it like four times and you didnt respond.

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