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Server time (UTC): 2023-01-26 21:34

Common Sense in Initiations. [Suggestion]


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Is it not logic that if someone is robbing you then they will kill you. Then does it make sense i have to tell them or i get punished.

So, after getting into several debates about RDM, and Poor initiation its getting old. Basically the rules are set to not allow logic and thinking in the server. If someone walks up behind you, puts a gun to you, then tells you to drop all of you "Gear" you aren't going to walk away and say " Sorry man you didn't tell me you would kill me so bye." No you would sit there scared to death about if you were going to die and not move giving the thief all of you gear. The "Must give them a consequence in initiation" is possibly the worst rule there is ( in my opinion ).

Why you may ask?

Well of you are like me the thrill of robbing someone and getting good stuff is awesome adrenaline is pumping and you throw yourself into the world of RP expecting it to be as close to life as possible. But when people are getting away with getting killed while not listening to someone robbing you, defeats the Whole RP aspect, and generally causes way to many problems with people crying about they died for not following instructions.

What i hope happens?

I hope that maybe we can actually rob someone without getting banned just because we didn't say we were going to kill them with our gun that is in there face.

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I totally agree with this, all of this has to do with roleplay over ruleplay, right now its basically like this

Robber: 'You in the castle tower, Drop your guns or you will be shot'

Victim: 'No no no, you didn't say the magic word *continues,gets shot and reports'

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Guest Generic Name

Completely agree. The consequence is irrelevant, because if they tell you to do something with a gun pointed at you, it's quite obvious there's gonna be consequences if you do not comply, just common sense.

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  • Emerald

Well, I must say I agree that the rules regarding initiation is getting kind of silly.

If common sense is applied to the life on DayZRP and you hear someone scream: "Drop your weapon!", you would know what is happening and how you must respond. You either drop the weapon or be prepared to engage. The very fact you have to state consequences is silly. What else would there be? "..Or else we will watch patiently as you leave the area."?

I was away during the period this rule was put in action, but it seems unnecessary, moot and unlogical to me. I understand clarity strengthens the initiation. I believe you are expected to be clear on the terms, such as:

  • Drop your weapons
  • do not turn around with a weapon in hand
  • drop your radio
  • slowly back away from the weapon and move towards me (+ Direction)

As the result of these actions will affect the outcome of the situation. But being forced to state your intentions? Nope.

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I agree, having a report against us right now JUST because of the "magic word"

I know and it's getting sad that people decide "okay everything he just said isn't true because the *Magic Word* wasn't used" So you can have a 5 min initiation ( Hypothetically ) but if you don't say "or you will die" Then the victim doesn't have to do ANYTHING you just spent 5 min telling him to do.


Well, I must say I agree that the rules regarding initiation is getting kind of silly.

you are right, just like if you are raiding a settlement. You may not think to Tell someone the logical reason as to why they need to drop there gear. because you are to busy trying to protect yourself and your comrades from anyone who will defend themselves.

And yes i agree the other rules need to Clearly be followed but this one just isn't relevant at all. Its just an excuse for someone to get outta being killed for not following an order.

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I agree with this. Being hostile towards another player should be enough to understand what is going on. On the other hand you should clearly say if it is not a hostile intention when doing certain things as it could lead to confusion.

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This brings to mind a saying:

"There are two kinds of people in this world, those who can extrapolate from incomplete data..."

I hate using the real life argument, but I've been robbed at my job before, and he didn't tell me he was gong to kill me if I didn't give him money. He pulled out his weapon and told me to give him the money. I didn't need to be told I was going to die if I didn't do what he said.

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This brings to mind a saying:

"There are two kinds of people in this world, those who can extrapolate from incomplete data..."

I hate using the real life argument, but I've been robbed at my job before, and he didn't tell me he was gong to kill me if I didn't give him money. He pulled out his weapon and told me to give him the money. I didn't need to be told I was going to die if I didn't do what he said.

+1

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Surely if one attempts to rob a victim without stating consequences and the victim decides to not comply due to that, they are breaking roleplay > ruleplay...

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  • MVP

Is it really so hard to add "or you will be shot/killed" to the end of a sentence? I've never had any issues.

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Is it really so hard to add "or you will be shot/killed" to the end of a sentence? I've never had any issues.

Agreed. To me its not that hard to remember. It takes 5 seconds for you to state a consequence. Is it bad rp for someone to walk away when someone has a gun to his head? I agree that it is. One could probably be reported for bad rp for doing so. But if the staff added it to rules it was probably for a good reason.

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personal i think a good idea....if your are going to shoot someone for running away...shoot them in the legs? this then gives them the chance to change their mind and think "oh f**k what have i done" haha but that might not always happen so you then shoot again? if you know what i mean? :)

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With Altis life in mind, back when Takistan life was in its early stages their was a rule that the robber had to say, "this is a robbery, if you resist you will be killed". However, this rule was removed; why? It doesn't make sense RP wise, no robber is going to pull a gun to your head and say, hey I'm robbing you, don't move, if you do you will die.

In DayZRP, as soon as someone says drop all you (stuff etc), don't move etc, the victim knows exactly whats happening. However if the robber hasn't state the consequence, the victim can run off in time; essentially abusing game mechanics so that they would never receive the consequence. [but, removing that part of the initiation, can cause a stir.]

So, far its an inconvenience a very small one for the robbers to fully initiate, removing it would make it easier for robbers, but in my opinion their is no dire issue with stating the consequence.

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Is it really so hard to add "or you will be shot/killed" to the end of a sentence? I've never had any issues.

Precisely this. It is why this suggestion has been dismissed before.

I agree with the sentiment OP that people should be fearing for their lives and would comply under these circumstances IRL. If you remove the 'or you will be shot' then it means that there's no defining point of a hostile action and that has a huge knock on effect throughout the rules.

It would also result in a huge grey area where the rules would be too open for interpretation on what is and isn't a hostile action. Reports are difficult enough for the staff to resolve as it is and removing the need to state a consequence would result in people deeming any IC character hostility or argument, a hostile action. People have different tolerances to arguments and some are more easily offended than others.

My opinion is that if you're going to be robbing someone of everything they've got then you should be thinking very carefully about your actions and making sure that you're in a safe area where you have enough time to initiate and a good position on your victim to not put your own life in danger.

If they show disregard for their life in the situation then it is deemed to be bad RP, which is punishable. You are coming at this from one defined situation that judging by your original post, has affected you personally.

This rule is in place to cover every initiation scenario imaginable in-game. 'Or you will be shot' covers it. Stating a consequence is clear and universal, it gives you a 50/50 option, live or die.

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Well, now, hold on a second. Let me try and argue devil's advocate, because I didn't know the rules were interpreted this way.

As a lone, paranoid survivor, I've considered how my character would react a lot of the time to seeing an armed guy. Realistically he very well might say something like "Hey, HEY! Put that fucking gun on the ground!" or "Don't you take another god damned step towards this building!"

I've never done anything like that, because the rules were, when I used to play, that ordering anyone to do anything was a "hostile" action and opened you up to be killed. In the above situation, I'm not initiating on anyone, I'm just RPing a paranoid guy, it's not my intention to steal anyone's stuff or even shoot them if they don't obey.

I like this current state of affairs. It's a lot easier for a robber to add "Or I'll shoot you" than a RPer to add "But OOCly I'm not initiating"

Edit: Yeah, what Mr. Shorts said above :D

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  • Sapphire

Well with out the consequence I can see any situation where a person raises their gun quickly turning into a gun fight. Why because it would just take one miss click while yelling at someone and then you've got hostile intent even though you never planed on killing/robbing them. Plus it isn't that hard to remember to say "or you die" and if you practice saying it all the time you will make it second nature to say it when it's necessary time comes.

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  • Emerald

Sometimes it can also be hard to understand if it's a hostile action or not. If I am driving a car and someone simply screams "Stop the car" I won't know if it was an initiation or not, and might end up being shot. The few words "or you will be shot" easily change a request to a initiation.

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It's a very tough thing to discuss. Even in the real world, when a police officer says drop your weapons, it means if you don't they will shoot. In the U.S there was actually a big controversy with this a couple years ago, where an officer pulled over a psychotic Vietnam war vet who had a rifle with him. Essentially it went like this:

*Video starts with the vet dancing around not following orders, the officer telling him to stop*

Cop continues to yell at him because the vet keeps walking away, so the officer continuously yells "Get back now!" and still no compliance. Then after a bit the vet goes to his truck and pulls an M-I Carbine. Officer tells him to drop it, and after he says it two more times, the deputy fires the first shot. Deputy ends up getting quite literally executed by the vet. This video is shown as an example of why cops should shoot first, and ask questions later. (Part of where the American "police brutality" comes from.)

That being said, when you say "Drop your weapons now or I'll shoot", it gives the person more times to comprehend/process the situation in game so they can do anything. Adding those few extra words can make a huge difference IMO, and just generally is better roleplay.

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  • Legend

Good discussion. This thread hits the essential points raised as we discussed implementing this rule.

At the end of the day, announcing the consequences solves more problems than it creates, by quite a bit. I don't particularly like the rule either, but the alternatives are worse.

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  • Sapphire

This makes sense, completely, and would work in the servers.

In a real life situation, you wouldn't exactly say 'or you will be shot'. I hope to see this go on, although, as Sin said, the alternatives are worse. Although the system currently works, if someone doesn't give a consequence, then you can expect a report, which kind of defeats the roleplay over the ruleplay rule in my opinion.

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  • Sapphire

+1 from me... Im currently dealing with a report were the people decided to run before the consequences are stated and claim to be aware of the fact they knew it was a hostile initiation but are mad we shot them.

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