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"He turned... I shot"

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Press    1

I watch the Report sections (both Formal and Discussion) quite closely to see what's happening on the wrong side of the rules, and one thing that I notice far, far too often is reactionary killings.

A robbery is supposed to be an RP experience for both parties, not a guaranteed prelude to killing someone. You're supposed to identify your target and play out an interaction, but I see far too much "I shot him because he turned".

Alright, now, for the sake of fairness that can be a rough spot to be in. You have granted someone KOS rights by initiating on them, and if they turn around and point a gun at you, chances are you might be toast in a few seconds... but is that reason enough to skip ID and the 10/15/whatever seconds you're supposed to give them and just light them up?

I ask, because it is so often a grey area - one which can easily be exploited by both parties. If the victim shoots, the robber has little or no recourse, and I don't believe a victim of a robbery needs to wait in order to retaliate after being initiated on. However, if the robber shoots quickly as a reaction to movement... no matter minor... there is a good chance that they have skipped over a number of necessary steps in order for them to cleanly open fire.

In these instances, is the robber ever correct to open fire prior to identification/10 seconds... or is the robber at fault for skipping steps (an unfortunate side effect of being the aggressor)?

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I watch the Report sections (both Formal and Discussion) quite closely to see what's happening on the wrong side of the rules, and one thing that I notice far, far too often is reactionary killings.

A robbery is supposed to be an RP experience for both parties, not a guaranteed prelude to killing someone. You're supposed to identify your target and play out an interaction, but I see far too much "I shot him because he turned".

Alright, now, for the sake of fairness that can be a rough spot to be in. You have grated someone KOS right by initiating on them, and if they turn around and point a gun at you, chances are you might be toast in a few seconds... but is that reason enough to skip ID and the 10/15/whatever seconds you're supposed to give them and just light them up?

I ask, because it is so often a grey area - one which can easily be exploited by both parties. If the victim shoots, the robber has little or no recourse, and I don't believe a victim of a robbery needs to wait in order to retaliate after being initiated on. However, if the robber shoots quickly as a reaction to movement... no matter minor... there is a good chance that they have skipped over a number of necessary steps in order for them to cleanly open fire.

In these instances, is the robber ever correct to open fire prior to identification/10 seconds... or is the robber at fault for skipping steps (an unfortunate side effect of being the aggressor)?

It's not skipping steps. There is absolutely no reason for a victim to turn around with a gun aimed and ready unless he aims to shoot you first. You can't simply say, "oh I haven't waited long enough, guess I'm dead." because then robbing wouldn't be a thing.

Shooting based on twitch movements = no

Shooting based on full turning/going prone and turning = okay

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Tomeran    3

I agree and disagree at the same time.

The example you mentioned, as you said yourself, is a "rough spot" to be in as a bandit. In the end, it comes down to clear instructions. "Do not turn around or I'll shoot" followed by the usual drop your stuff-lines. Its fairly simple to turn such a "turn and shoot" situation legit, because it CAN very well be legit. So im not sure this is the best of examples.

But I agree that there's WAY too much triggerhappiness going on in general with bandits. This has a clear negative impact on the amount of roleplay you have in these situations. So you have a point there. I've seen and experienced first-hand where people get very jumpy and nervous around people for the most ridicilous of reasons, and sometimes I wonder if they've been "scarred" by situations where people intentionally exploit every gap and edge in the rules, movement and the game itself to gain an advantage over their opponent.

The assumption many do then, which is very wrong, is that every person they come across is potentially one of these people, and it can make them come across as very paranoid, jittery and well..generally difficult to get a solid interaction with.

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Flame    0

I know what you mean, but unfortunately nothing can really be done about things like this. The biggest excuse I've seen is about blaming the desync, meaning they want to get the first shot off if things go south, which shouldn't be the main thing they should really be worrying about when robbing someone in a role-play community.

IN saying that, the extent that a player is willing to role-play is up to them, you can't force them to have to role-play a robbery for at least, for talking sake, let's say 5 minutes before you are 'legitimately' allowed to shoot them if they "don't comply" or because they turned around or whatever, they make sure they do things by the book basically before they are able to strike if you don't comply.

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Upshot    0

People often deserve to be shot in that sense. I robbed a guy & a girl from their car, told them both to place their gear inside the car & face it, that's the blunt of it. The person ran to the boot of the car and I shot him as I told him not to move and to face the car. His lady friend told me seconds after that he couldn't access the gear and he went to the back so he could. He didn't tell me he was going to do that and I shot. If you communicate during a robbery, you can help yourself not get shot and definitely get back up on your opponent... Silence leads to death.

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While I have only initiated on a handful of people, I have never really had issues with this. I always wait till their weapon is lowered, and preferably till they are checking their backpack for something, or drop something for them to pickup. I then start with "If you raise your weapon you will be shot", while moving to stay behind them I follow up with "If you turn around you will be shot". I can use my own movements to prevent them from accidently turning to face me and provide that extra time to acertain that they did receive and understand the demands.

After this, if they do raise their weapon and try to turn towards me, they will get maybe one last warning as I am in position to prevent them from doing something stupid, and if they choose to continue, then I would shoot.

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I had this happen to me the other day. I was running into Berenzino to resupply and a voice says "Stop". I turn to see whats going on because it did not sound aggressive and as I turn towards him he says don't turn towards me. So I turn back around and he shoots me and says "I told you not to turn around." Robberies like this are crap and the thing is I cannot constantly record my play as it reduces my frames pretty low. And without a recording its my word against his. I posted it in the report discussion but got no replies as I'm sure people are tired of seeing posts like it. My main argument was I had a crowbar in my hands, not a gun and he could see that but he shot anyway. So what do we do? Constantly record game play and dump the file after each session or just deal with the in my opinion crap players that just want to be bandits without fear of being kos'd? I really had a half of mind just to not log back in for some time after it happened but I do have a lot of good times here. I logged back in a day later and had a great time with some members of the FMDS Xavier and Sweet Joe. So I dunno

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Hehe, glad to hear you enjoyed yourself with us! Got to admit, we spent a bit of time wondering what to do about this man with a bat standing over a dead body in front of us... lol

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R Steele    0

Here is 1 where the person we were disarming was shot for turning and was the right case to do it too

[video=youtube]

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Jerry    22

Its because people that cry about bad RP will still take every opportunity to kill you.

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Hehe, glad to hear you enjoyed yourself with us! Got to admit, we spent a bit of time wondering what to do about this man with a bat standing over a dead body in front of us... lol

I kept waiting to hear drop your weapons since yall kept putting the headlights on me. lol Yeah I saw him dead there and was seeing if he had anything I could use on him. Yeah I had a blast.

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Hehe, glad to hear you enjoyed yourself with us! Got to admit, we spent a bit of time wondering what to do about this man with a bat standing over a dead body in front of us... lol

I kept waiting to hear drop your weapons since yall kept putting the headlights on me. lol Yeah I saw him dead there and was seeing if he had anything I could use on him. Yeah I had a blast.

I think we all had a good time. Xavier isn't really the chattiest character, but Joe's always good for keeping a conversation going. Like I said, you're welcome to hang with us anytime we're around, just give us a shout on the radio!

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Popeye509    1

I died because I hesitated in a guy was turning around... I don't to risk getting banned or something for killing some guy because he knocked His mouse slightly. :( just a problem people got to deal with until some people lose the I got killed unfairly ban them noaw! Mentality. Sometimes people need to see it from other perspectives but I think we are going towards role play over ruleplay slowly anyways.

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I'd say that when you choose to initiate, it is not something you should rush. You should be certain you are in control of the situation. You should be in a position where if he turns to aim at you, you have cover, or the means to stay away from the barrel of his gun.

People get flustered really easily, and it can take a little bit for the mind to comprehend what is actually happening. Try to be crisp and clear in your demands, be certain of your position, repeat the demands and consequences several times. You are the one initiating, it is your responsibility to be as in control of the situation as possible. It is your responsibility to make certain your demands are clear. It is your responsibility to make certain they know the consequences of disobedience.

Also, do not give contradictory commands. I hate it when people make demands like "Sit down and do not move! Drop your radio! DONT MOVE AND DROP YOUR RADIO!" Sorry mate. I'm sitting because you told me to. I cannot drop my radio without getting back up. Crap robbers will likely shoot me if I stand back up to drop my radio. As a hostage I generally deal with this with a nice snarky comment like "You just told me to sit down and now I'm sitting on my fucking radio. Do you want me to get up and drop it myself, or do you wanna grab it outa my ass?" (Add in like 10 more cusswords to that comment for the full effect :P)

Basically, be in control. Be prepared to manuever to gain the extra time for them to comprehend what you are saying. Keep your demands and consequences crisp, clear, and logical. Keep in mind the limitations of DayZ and do not put your hostage in a situation where he has to break one demand to comply with another.

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Guest Thuesen207   
Guest Thuesen207

if you tell them not to turn aand that you will kill them if they do, and then they turn, i light em up!

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I'd say that when you choose to initiate, it is not something you should rush. You should be certain you are in control of the situation. You should be in a position where if he turns to aim at you, you have cover, or the means to stay away from the barrel of his gun.

People get flustered really easily, and it can take a little bit for the mind to comprehend what is actually happening. Try to be crisp and clear in your demands, be certain of your position, repeat the demands and consequences several times. You are the one initiating, it is your responsibility to be as in control of the situation as possible. It is your responsibility to make certain your demands are clear. It is your responsibility to make certain they know the consequences of disobedience.

Also, do not give contradictory commands. I hate it when people make demands like "Sit down and do not move! Drop your radio! DONT MOVE AND DROP YOUR RADIO!" Sorry mate. I'm sitting because you told me to. I cannot drop my radio without getting back up. Crap robbers will likely shoot me if I stand back up to drop my radio. As a hostage I generally deal with this with a nice snarky comment like "You just told me to sit down and now I'm sitting on my fucking radio. Do you want me to get up and drop it myself, or do you wanna grab it outa my ass?" (Add in like 10 more cusswords to that comment for the full effect :P)

Basically, be in control. Be prepared to manuever to gain the extra time for them to comprehend what you are saying. Keep your demands and consequences crisp, clear, and logical. Keep in mind the limitations of DayZ and do not put your hostage in a situation where he has to break one demand to comply with another.

hey_heisenberg_was_this_gif_overused_in_the_bryan_cranston_ama-58107.gif

Well said mate. Could not agree more. Besides by keeping in control and communicating you can either stall for time (if done well without them noticing of course) or even gain the upper hand somehow.

Also creates immersion and forms a great RP experience :)

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Upshot    0

There is no excuse for shooting people that mean no harm and as many people point out, make sure you are in the right position to initiate, do not be stood in front of somebody and tell them to immediately turn around. Make sure you are always behind the person if it's a close quarters robbery. I've only robbed people a few times and I can safely say that I've never felt I was in the wrong by shooting. If a person runs, makes a 180 turn, they are clearly asking to be shot providing your orders involved that.

People twitch, people take time to drop their weapons, nothing more irritating than being shot because you can't drop a melee weapon, pistol, backpack & radio within the 1.5 seconds of patience the robber has.

Keep up the good times!

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