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Kiiwi

The Truth About Radio Communications

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Kiiwi    0

First of all, i would like to point out that i am in no way pursuing a change to the rules, this is merely a suggestion for the community to take into account in their daily DayZRP shenanigans.

With that out of the way, we can get started.

The way that TS is currently used for IC radio communications is appalling. I can understand using it for OOC chatter whenever you like, how you like, but the IC comms raise this feeling of disgust in me. Is it really necessary to use TS as a telepathic way of communication in every situation? I'll clarify my point just a bit:

Mr. Metagame is getting robbed, which he does not like at all. He decides to use his RADIO to call on friends for help, all while being held at gunpoint, with his arms behind his head. Sure, he might still have his radio on his person, but how on earth does he manage to give a detailed description of what is happening to his buddies, while standing right next to the robber?

As far as i know, and i do know, you can bind multiple buttons to do the same thing. Is there a reason to NOT bind separate keys for:

-In game transmission only.

-TS only

(Here is the part where people go "NOO, U STOOPID")

-Both

When you are alone, or NOT in the near vicinity of other players, use the TS only key. Others hearing you talk into your radio from 50m away is ridiculous. Everyone can see that.

When you ARE near other players, use the one linked to both. People standing next to you NOT hearing you talk into your radio, is ridiculous also. Do i even need to explain why?

What i am suggesting with this thread is not a change to the rules. This is a suggestion for the entire community to take into account in their roleplay, voluntarily. The only reason i can think of for NOT doing this is wanting to get an undetectable, unfair and unrealistic advantage over other players. Which is silly, because really guys? REALLY? Is that what you're here for?

Discuss.

_____________________________

Oh yes, this also applies to situations that are not hostile. If that was not already clear.

[Edited the title to be more provocative. Teehee]

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Kiiwi    0

I kinda agree to this.

Kind of do it then. Although actually doing it is much better.

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Kiiwi    0

I know everyone does this, but really? No-one has anything to say? Is my idea so horrible in every way that it does not deserve to be talked about? Or is everyone just feeling guilty..?

Nevertheless, i'll keep on bumping this periodically to remind you all. And to get some answers.

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Chaznar    0

I use TS for my OOC chatter, if I use it for anything in character I'll press both keys down. Generally I don't call my buddies for help. I do have a code word I use if I've been told to turn off or drop my radio. So robbers will hear me say a random word, and won't know why I've randomly saying "CHOCOLATE!"

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Kiiwi    0

I use TS for my OOC chatter, if I use it for anything in character I'll press both keys down. Generally I don't call my buddies for help. I do have a code word I use if I've been told to turn off or drop my radio. So robbers will hear me say a random word, and won't know why I've randomly saying "CHOCOLATE!"

Nice to see someone is playing fair. :) I thank thee for the response.

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Chaznar    0

I use TS for my OOC chatter, if I use it for anything in character I'll press both keys down. Generally I don't call my buddies for help. I do have a code word I use if I've been told to turn off or drop my radio. So robbers will hear me say a random word, and won't know why I've randomly saying "CHOCOLATE!"

Nice to see someone is playing fair. :) I thank thee for the response.

So just remember, if an old man ever screams CHOCOLATE! At you... "They" are coming for you!

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Kiiwi    0

I'm not really even surprised at the lack of comments on this thread. The majority of the server population, especially big groups, do this all the time. In my eyes it is the one thing that kills most of the RP on the server, yet everyone thinks it's just fine. All i ask is for someone to come forth, and explain WHY it is fine.. Or is this absence of answers due to the fact that no-one can come up with a reason? Why is this topic not worth talking about? I know a lot of people have seen this already...

I might come across as "butthurt" or "mad", but i assure you this is not the case. I have never been wronged due to this metagaming way of Radio comms, it just strikes me as odd that a community based on roleplay shuts it's eyes to a matter such as this.

I have no clue what the policies on bumping threads are around here, but i won't give up until i get some answers. Get prepared for more rants on the subject...

Sincerely, Me.

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ktbur    9

Interesting subject to bring up considering the new implementation of the in-game radios. While I agree with your point that using TS as IC communication is far-fetched from reality (especially when the bandits (for example) are standing right next to them), I also feel that there are other technical issues that come into play.

1) Most people would find it difficult to remember pressing both buttons at the same time. So, the average Joe would probably panic and forget to speak in both TS and in-game. The amount of meta-gaming reports would increase if this rule was ever added.

2) Although DayzRP is primarily a roleplay server, in the end, it is also based on a game that is heavily PvP centered. The usage of TS as in-game means of communication is vital to any operations, especially when you have at least 10 people involved in a fire-fight. When you add several clans into the mix, you can imagine the chaos.

3) TS is also used by many non-hostile groups that greatly benefits roleplay between players across the map. For example, you have the Freemedics who receives radio SOS transmissions. To me, I see this as a great opportunity to facilitate roleplay that probably could have never happened without TS.

You mentioned that your suggestion would be a voluntary choice on the player's part. Realistically speaking, players will always want an edge over one another, especially when their lives and gear is at stake. That is not to say that I don't think this is a good idea. On the contrary, if any players decide to do this voluntarily, I commend them for their efforts. However, like I said, this will most likely not happen.

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Apfelsator    2

Even if I'm not whitelisted yet, i totally agree to the points you stated.

On the rp-server i am comming from, we handeld radio communications like this while in the near of players.

I for myself did it even when i was just in TS with someone in-character but was running around alone in a city or somewhere, so the zombies got attracted if i spoke into the radio.

EDIT:

2) Although DayzRP is primarily a roleplay server, in the end, it is also based on a game that is heavily PvP centered. The usage of TS as in-game means of communication is vital to any operations, especially when you have at least 10 people involved in a fire-fight. When you add several clans into the mix, you can imagine the chaos.

I don't see this being a "problem" at all.

Chaos in a firefight? Well, this is normal, it is in the end a firefight in wich everyone could die so chaos is normal.

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Kiiwi    0

Interesting subject to bring up considering the new implementation of the in-game radios. While I agree with your point that using TS as IC communication is far-fetched from reality (especially when the bandits (for example) are standing right next to them), I also feel that there are other technical issues that come into play.

1) Most people would find it difficult to remember pressing both buttons at the same time. So, the average Joe would probably panic and forget to speak in both TS and in-game. The amount of meta-gaming reports would increase if this rule was ever added.

2) Although DayzRP is primarily a roleplay server, in the end, it is also based on a game that is heavily PvP centered. The usage of TS as in-game means of communication is vital to any operations, especially when you have at least 10 people involved in a fire-fight. When you add several clans into the mix, you can imagine the chaos.

3) TS is also used by many non-hostile groups that greatly benefits roleplay between players across the map. For example, you have the Freemedics who receives radio SOS transmissions. To me, I see this as a great opportunity to facilitate roleplay that probably could have never happened without TS.

You mentioned that your suggestion would be a voluntary choice on the player's part. Realistically speaking, players will always want an edge over one another, especially when their lives and gear is at stake. That is not to say that I don't think this is a good idea. On the contrary, if any players decide to do this voluntarily, I commend them for their efforts. However, like I said, this will most likely not happen.

Thanks for the input, i really appreciate it. As for the points you mentioned, you must have misunderstood my point.

1. You can bind both TS and IG VOIP to the same key. Hypothetically, lets say you use the key Caps Lock for IG VOIP as a default setting. You can bind the push-to-talk button on TS to Caps Lock also, so you only need one key. Players are able to use a vast number of different keys for different things, so what harm does adding one more to that list do?

2. You seem to think that i want TS-comms to be removed completely. That is not the case. Using TS is just fine, the part of it i have a problem with is the way it is used. You can read all about it in the opening post.

3. The Free Medics would still be able to receive SOS-messages, why wouldn't they? I do not see a reason to keep this radio-chatter TS-exclusive, as it just does not make sense. The other day i was helping out the Free Medics to fuel up a Huey. The only person there who said anything IG, was Tomeran, who i was travelling with at the time. From my POV, the situation consisted of the Free Medics using telepathy to communicate, while i just stood there without ever hearing a word. It just ruins the mood, IMO.

This part really caught my eye though: "Realistically speaking, players will always want an edge over one another, especially when their lives and gear is at stake."

I know this is true, but should we just shrug it off as something that happens, when it clearly should not. As i recall, a new addition to the rules states: "Roleplay over Ruleplay" When will people get over their want to be the best, and be able to have some fun. If someone reading this thinks that the foundation of DayZRP is being the best and having the best gear, they are clearly in the wrong place, for the wrong reasons.

I guess it all boils down to the fact that people are why we can't have nice things, eh?

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Goz    2

Your enforcement is a dead end - only way to achieve the state you are after is to implement ACRE. Only then (assuming people will play fair and not use other voip services but that can be with some help limited/spotted if needed be) there is a chance to have such working mechanism. Aaand still - that would be only a chance.

I personally don't speak via TS/ingame same stuff(unless it's roleplaying bits that don't harm me/clan) when encountering possible hostiles as :

- It will be used hard against me

- They won't play the ball on their side

- Without rule enforcement/ACRE it's futile, I've seen way too many people with nice ideas that simply can't be implemented without proper mod support. You can't ask people to play nice/adjust and expect it to work :)

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ktbur    9

I don't see this being a "problem" at all.

Chaos in a firefight? Well, this is normal, it is in the end a firefight in wich everyone could die so chaos is normal.

It isn't so much as a "problem" but more of a necessity in fire-fights. Communication is key to any combat situations, whether in real-life or in game. Yes, it is a firefight and yes, people can die. The consequences are very real, which is why it is important to minimize loses through communication. Regardless, this doesn't seem to be the issue that the OP is wanting to address.

I know this is true, but should we just shrug it off as something that happens, when it clearly should not. As i recall, a new addition to the rules states: "Roleplay over Ruleplay" When will people get over their want to be the best, and be able to have some fun. If someone reading this thinks that the foundation of DayZRP is being the best and having the best gear, they are clearly in the wrong place, for the wrong reasons.

While I agree with you, I would also like to point out how subjective the term "fun" is. Some may find roaming Chenarus as a lone-wolf enjoyable, others may find the thrill of firefights "fun". It is undeniable that many desire high-powered weapons not because they want to one shot zombies, but rather, they want to one shot players instead. There is hardly a need for DMRs or such when you are just dealing with zombies. However, does that mean that players aren't going to want the best gear in game? The allure of rare weapons isn't just dependent on how hard the bullets hit. Having highly valued gear also plays into the social aspect of DayzRP, but it seems that I am getting off topic here.

tldr; The real key is finding a balance between realistic roleplay and smooth gameplay that is not hindered by 10 pages of rules.

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Kiiwi    0

Your enforcement is a dead end - only way to achieve the state you are after is to implement ACRE. Only then (assuming people will play fair and not use other voip services but that can be with some help limited/spotted if needed be) there is a chance to have such working mechanism. Aaand still - that would be only a chance.

I personally don't speak via TS/ingame same stuff(unless it's roleplaying bits that don't harm me/clan) when encountering possible hostiles as :

- It will be used hard against me

- They won't play the ball on their side

- Without rule enforcement/ACRE it's futile, I've seen way too many people with nice ideas that simply can't be implemented without proper mod support. You can't ask people to play nice/adjust and expect it to work :)

No-one is asking you to reveal clan secrets to strangers. In a situation such as this, you would simply NOT talk about these things, because you don't want the people in question to hear about it.

It seems that the popular opinion here is that people will not roleplay unless they are forced to roleplay. Forgive me for my crude language but what is this shit..?

If the only way to ensure roleplay is to enforce a huge list of rules, it seems to me that the majority of players would prefer NOT to roleplay. Please explain to me why this mass of players is here?

I am merely bringing this subject up to discussion, why does everyone think that it is not worth discussing because "It wont happen"? Are you really that short-sighted?


"tldr; The real key is finding a balance between realistic roleplay and smooth gameplay that is not hindered by 10 pages of rules."

Aye, it is. But does this particular suggestion go "over the top" in terms of smooth gameplay?

P.S. I suck at editing posts... ^^

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Goz    2

First of all - relax.

Second of all - relax.

Third of all - your points are pretty much blanks.

1. Truth is that with proper radio setup (like ACRE can provide) I would be able to whisper messages, that way my clanmates can hear me via radio and only few folks within 10/20m could hear me via direct. Not like now - everyone within 80m can hear you perfectly.

2. It's not about that people won't roleplay unless they are forced. Simply when lives are at stake,many hours spent on gearing up/getting into a spot to roleplay with others a simple mistake of trusting others to be fair(when in 95% they won't be) can cost you that said hours of gameplay. I've tried it - and I'm not going to do that again.Especially if it involves threat to joy of others with me.

3. Nope, you missed the point with set of rules if you directed it at me. I'm personally big enemy of big set of rules - ideally everything can be covered by a bit of thinking but it sadly doesn't work that way. There are people... and there are other people - as much as it's shitty - some rules have to be made to have any order whatsover,rest is in hands of smart GMs. GMs should be able to set trends/interpretations on individual cases - even if rule in that scenario may seem to be broken.

4. About players - yup, as much as it's dayzRP and generally the situation is getting better overtime (I think) with roleplay bits - there are loads of people that simply enjoy NoKoS enviroment that works here flawlessy. I can bet that with mod being more harsh - aka demanding more time/dedication you will see more roleplayers around and less 'no Kosers'.

5. It's not about 'wont happen hurr durr drop the topic'. I've provided you with reasoning why it wont work - simple, you cant expect people to get on mountains of fair play without proper mod support & rules going alongside them.After months of being here, as player,as GM I can tell you - it won't work otherwise at all. It's cold,brutal but that's how it is.

If you think other way around - I suggest changing subtitle to hippy and going to happy land.

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Kiiwi    0

First of all - relax.

Second of all - relax.

Third of all - your points are pretty much blanks.

1. Truth is that with proper radio setup (like ACRE can provide) I would be able to whisper messages, that way my clanmates can hear me via radio and only few folks within 10/20m could hear me via direct. Not like now - everyone within 80m can hear you perfectly.

2. It's not about that people won't roleplay unless they are forced. Simply when lives are at stake,many hours spent on gearing up/getting into a spot to roleplay with others a simple mistake of trusting others to be fair(when in 95% they won't be) can cost you that said hours of gameplay. I've tried it - and I'm not going to do that again.Especially if it involves threat to joy of others with me.

3. Nope, you missed the point with set of rules if you directed it at me. I'm personally big enemy of big set of rules - ideally everything can be covered by a bit of thinking but it sadly doesn't work that way. There are people... and there are other people - as much as it's shitty - some rules have to be made to have any order whatsover,rest is in hands of smart GMs. GMs should be able to set trends/interpretations on individual cases - even if rule in that scenario may seem to be broken.

4. About players - yup, as much as it's dayzRP and generally the situation is getting better overtime (I think) with roleplay bits - there are loads of people that simply enjoy NoKoS enviroment that works here flawlessy. I can bet that with mod being more harsh - aka demanding more time/dedication you will see more roleplayers around and less 'no Kosers'.

5. It's not about 'wont happen hurr durr drop the topic'. I've provided you with reasoning why it wont work - simple, you cant expect people to get on mountains of fair play without proper mod support & rules going alongside them.After months of being here, as player,as GM I can tell you - it won't work otherwise at all. It's cold,brutal but that's how it is.

If you think other way around - I suggest changing subtitle to hippy and going to happy land.

I'm sorry if i have come across bitter or any of the sorts, but i am not looking for a perfect solution here. I am just questioning the fact that everyone does this and it's not even frowned upon.

Imagine yourself into the shoes of a robber. You are robbing a lone man, in the middle of the forest. He peacefully lays down his arms, and talks back to you. In the meantime, his friends are already closing in on the position, ready to take you out, because he called them in using his psychic powers. Do you see the flaw in this setup?

I am not saying that everyone should do this ALL of the time. Just when it makes sense. If you don't see anyone within earshot, use TS only. There is no need to expose yourself to excess harm due to the silly way arma2 works, it's up to you what kind of information you relay over the radio. When near possible hostiles, do not disclose valuable info over the radio, who would?

______________________

I am sorry if i offended you in some way, or if you feel i am just a "newbie" and have no chance of "getting it". I do "Get it", and i know that it is near impossible to achieve this on a serverwide level without some enforcement. I do not see a reason to disregard this completely though...

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   0

I don't think you need to give Goz hypothetical scenarios...he's the leader of this servers biggest clan, and yes, said clan engages in similar bandit activities alot.

he knows very well how this stuff works, and I for one agree with him on this issue.

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Kiiwi    0

I understand your point of view, and respect it as such. I still find it strange that the community is so quick to shrug this off, seeing as it really can be a major problem at times. All i ask is for some common sense to be used, is it really too much to ask?

I can see how transmitting your radio messages IG can be detrimental in certain situations, but it really breaks the game for the people in your near vicinity, which you really cannot deny. I am not saying the way TS is used is ALL bad, it just seems that it is used in this way in almost every situation, even when it really is not necessary. Is it too much to ask to set aside the need for winning, and give roleplay a chance?

Maybe i'm just a dreamer, but i'm not the only one.

Peace out, i'm done for now. I'll resurface my ideas when the time is right.

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Frayzies    6

Having come from a pretty extensive background in roleplaying, but with DayZRP being my first venture into vocalized roleplay, I was extremely surprised by the nature of something like TS and how it effects interactions between people ingame. I understand that radios are a valid and valuable tool ingame and their legitimacy can't necessarily be questioned. This of course doesn't mean we can't question how exactly they are used or the action of using them is achieved.

Personally, I have my teamspeak muted 100% of the time when roleplaying. I don't use a radio unless it is absolutely necessary to relay what would be critical in-character information, IE, where I might be or something of that sort. Even this is done in-character, because as far as roleplay goes my character is simply holding down the "talk" button.

My observations of many other people (but not all) using teamspeak are extremely negative and do nothing to add to the quality of roleplay I've been in. Oftentimes I may be trying to converse with someone only to have said person blank out for a full 20 seconds as he OOC'ly chats with his buddies about where he is and what he's doing. Why do people see nothing wrong with this? I find it difficult to stay immersed if I'm constantly talking with my pals about things not pertinent to the situation at hand.

Not to mention robbers that can all telepathically communicate with eachother, and only scream "SHUUUUUUUUUUUT UUUUUUUUUP" when you try to roleplay with them. I've inferred that their screaming "shut up" is a response to my talking making it difficult for him to hear what his telepathic friends are saying to him.

I dunno. I think I've gone progressively more and more sour as I've typed this post and it was by no means my intention. On the good side of things you do sometimes catch someone here and there that also projects their radio communications into their roleplay, IE, letting anyone in the immediate area also hear what they're saying. The most recent credit I can give to this would be Dmitri of the CLF - good show! If more people were to do what he does I think we'd see a significant improvement in the quality of RP.

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Kiiwi    0

Having come from a pretty extensive background in roleplaying, but with DayZRP being my first venture into vocalized roleplay, I was extremely surprised by the nature of something like TS and how it effects interactions between people ingame. I understand that radios are a valid and valuable tool ingame and their legitimacy can't necessarily be questioned. This of course doesn't mean we can't question how exactly they are used or the action of using them is achieved.

Personally, I have my teamspeak muted 100% of the time when roleplaying. I don't use a radio unless it is absolutely necessary to relay what would be critical in-character information, IE, where I might be or something of that sort. Even this is done in-character, because as far as roleplay goes my character is simply holding down the "talk" button.

My observations of many other people (but not all) using teamspeak are extremely negative and do nothing to add to the quality of roleplay I've been in. Oftentimes I may be trying to converse with someone only to have said person blank out for a full 20 seconds as he OOC'ly chats with his buddies about where he is and what he's doing. Why do people see nothing wrong with this? I find it difficult to stay immersed if I'm constantly talking with my pals about things not pertinent to the situation at hand.

Not to mention robbers that can all telepathically communicate with eachother, and only scream "SHUUUUUUUUUUUT UUUUUUUUUP" when you try to roleplay with them. I've inferred that their screaming "shut up" is a response to my talking making it difficult for him to hear what his telepathic friends are saying to him.

I dunno. I think I've gone progressively more and more sour as I've typed this post and it was by no means my intention. On the good side of things you do sometimes catch someone here and there that also projects their radio communications into their roleplay, IE, letting anyone in the immediate area also hear what they're saying. The most recent credit I can give to this would be Dmitri of the CLF - good show! If more people were to do what he does I think we'd see a significant improvement in the quality of RP.

I love you man. <3

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Lockmar    0

As Goz said the only way to get everyone to do this is to force people to have ACRE on and connected. It currently can happen with a small group of people doing it on their own. There is no way to truly enforce it without ACRE being implemented.

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Owen    13

As Goz said the only way to get everyone to do this is to force people to have ACRE on and connected. It currently can happen with a small group of people doing it on their own. There is no way to truly enforce it without ACRE being implemented.

Agreed but it would need to be thoroughly tested though before being put in.

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Lockmar    0

As Goz said the only way to get everyone to do this is to force people to have ACRE on and connected. It currently can happen with a small group of people doing it on their own. There is no way to truly enforce it without ACRE being implemented.

Agreed but it would need to be thoroughly tested though before being put in.

I remember an old thread by Rolle, last I heard they were going to test it on S3 on Panthera provided it happens.

Link:http://www.dayzrp.com/t-acre--16888?page=25&highlight=ACRE

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