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Jedediah

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Jedediah    0

In response to this thread http://www.dayzrp.com/t-attacks-on-settlements

I was inspired a bit by a post by Zhunk.

[align=justify]I'm sorry if it may sound offensive:

People always complain about how "better" it was in the past. As like they're stuck in this false "Nostalgia Bubble", that only shows them the good things.

Let me remind you a fact:

1. In the past, there were no player settelments.

2. There were always bandits.

3. "Trolling" and "Negative" attitude, why do you think the "Trading Post" as been removed?

4. In the past the was no age restriction.

5. In the past you could just donate to pass the whitelist.

6. Role Play names? There were no Role Play names.

And a lot more.

How easy it's to forget all the "bad" things of the past. I'm not saying that we shouldn't encourage for better Role Players, less amount of bandits and so on. But let's not say it wasn't like this, it always was and it always will, and we all ,as community, will fight against it.

This.

I haven't posted much recently, but I have been active on the server, and in my opinion, the roleplay on this server would be considered subpar on many levels in most rp communities. To say or think that any 1 change could fix this is being unreasonable. As well, to say that the changes that need to be made are dependent on the staff is equally unreasonable.

You want changes to be made to the server? Ask the staff.

You want changes to be made to the community? Ask the community.

The staff cannot control the number of players who wish to be bandits, nor can they honestly monitor the entire server population at all times. Banning can be an easy solution, but not when the bulk of reports that come through are riddled with so many PoV's, and so many grey areas to the rules that have been refined over and over again, and ultimately need to be decided on by -SEVERAL- staff members.

This thread went a ways off topic, I don't mean to derail it further, but here is my 2 cents.

(I'm actually going to post a new thread to avoid further derailing this one.)

I'd like for a lot of you to read some of these (I may add more when it isn't 5am) and think about the way you play on Dayzrp currently.

What the staff can do for us?

1.) Look deeper into the whitelist applications for quality roleplay over generalized paraphrasing of the rules. (Read the back story, not just the rule confirmation)

2.) Encourage, or even reward roleplay over killing. Adding a commend player feature on the forum? Giving forum goodies for players who have been given good roleplay reviews? Add reviews to player profiles for others to comment on a thought out character or good roleplay scene?

3.) Set character roles/class rollouts? I don't know if this is actually possible, but maybe giving players the ability to choose the type of survivor they want to play that might impact them ingame? You want to play a bandit? We shall skin you in such a way that others may be warned that you are out to harm them and you may be shot on sight. You want to play a doctor? We shall skin you in such a way that others may recognize that you intend on being non combatant and a beacon for safe treatment.

4.) Rules discussion open forum. A section on the forum where players may come up with ideas to add/change in the rules, that may be discussed by the community as a whole. You might have already noticed that in the reports forum, everybody is a lawyer. Loop holes will be discovered, discussed, amended, proven, or disproved in a forum where the players who they might apply to can discuss them.

5.) Consequences to bandits. Make life as a bandit more difficult. Currently, in this server, playing a bandit is living the easy life. Free cars, guns, supplies, all for killing people who are ill prepared.

What the community can do for themselves?

1.) Engage in roleplay! Strike up a conversation! Tell somebody something about your character! Create a roleplay thread/story! Make it a point to make encounters ingame something MORE than a paranoid fumble every time you see somebody you don't know!

2.) Encourage roleplay over ruleplay! "He's initiated on me. KoS him when you see him." "Yes, you have KoS rights on him and his clan if you see the tag." "He's the CR, he can kick you out without you getting KoS rights on him." "Make sure you tell him you are going to shoot him if he doesn't comply."

I understand TS banter and explanation won't exactly change much. But the mindset going into most situations that I've seen (In playing with MANY different players) is that the moment you begin interacting with another player, you're setting the table to what will likely result in a report thread posted later that evening. Maybe instead of just robbing a player and sending them on their way, you kidnap them for interaction? Maybe you drag them away and make them participate in the hunger games Elektrogorsk edition? Give them a hatchet and tell them to fight their way out of a barracks full of zombies? Make their survival a story worth telling rather than a KoS report worth filing?

3.) Communication. I've seen this in many games with prominent roleplay communities before. Grudges built OOC'ly over actions made IC'ly. One thing this server has never had (Past Metagaming and Godmoding) is a separation between IC and OOC interactions. Have you ever been in the same teamspeak channel as the person who you are robbing? Or being robbed by? Have you ever been civil with the players you were in a firefight with that lasted a half hour? Have you ever tried being friendly with a member of DogPigs, or SDS, or any other bandit group while on TS? One thing that is SO massively important when you're trying to maintain a roleplay community is to separate IC and OOC. What my character does, feels, believes, or says, in no way bind his actions to my personal feelings. An example. Jedediah dislikes Mike Diaz. Mike Diaz dislikes Jedediah. On TS, the two are good friends. They know that their characters arguing is part of a roleplay story they are adding to, and not an insult directed at them, the player. I feel as though if the players who do end up killing eachother just attempt to be civil and friendly afterwards OOC'ly, this place would get along so much smoother.

4.) Clan communication. This ties with 3. Having clans with their own grudges and alliances with other clans is fantastic. It can add SO MUCH to a busy rp community for both the clan members involved and the civilian players who know about it. But having clans that dislike each other on an out of character level is beyond poor play. Having played with members of Salvation, and logging onto Dayzrp's TS to be told 'Fuck you, you run with Salvation' OOC'ly by a player I had never met before? They don't know me. They refused to give me a chance. How does this contribute to a community? Clans can war against each other, or side with each other in whatever shifting ways they like. But maintaining communication, even at the minimum between leadership, would make a huge difference in sorting out interactions that happen between clans. Could you even imagine this forum without 50 new formal reports a day because of grudges against certain clans?

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See, this is what I want to see. Threads like this.

Be a part of the solution.

(I will address all of your points later, Jedediah).

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Jedediah    0

See, this is what I want to see. Threads like this.

Be a part of the solution.

(I will address all of your points later, Jedediah).

Thanks, bro.

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Guest kelldog44   
Guest kelldog44

See, this is what I want to see. Threads like this.

Be a part of the solution.

(I will address all of your points later, Jedediah).

Im the one who knocks.

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Tomeran    3

Alright. *cracks knuckles* Time to dig into some suggestions! I like the way this is presented.

1.) Look deeper into the whitelist applications for quality roleplay over generalized paraphrasing of the rules. (Read the back story, not just the rule confirmation)

[/Quote]

This is a nice idea, and I used to be one of the people that were very much in favor of more stricter whitelisting. But the whitelisting is already quite strict, -and- there is(or was, recently), 1000+ of them pending. To ask the admins and Rolle to read through all the massive backgrounds in detail is a bit much. I'd advise them to at least skim through them, but I think they do that already.

The admins or Rolle himself can deliver the ultimate answer here.

2.) Encourage, or even reward roleplay over killing. Adding a commend player feature on the forum? Giving forum goodies for players who have been given good roleplay reviews? Add reviews to player profiles for others to comment on a thought out character or good roleplay scene?

[/Quote]

I like the idea of encouraging good roleplayers and people who have behaved maturely and been helpful. But I think it needs to be based on the right things. We'd need an unbiased pair of people to look around for such community members and do a bit of digging on "potential candidates for reward", I think.

If we based it on reviews, we'd have people that simply are friends of other people. Because that's how most reviews work: They're based on friendship, and not neccecerily awesome RP quality. This is why there's generally so few names that stand out, and why there's so many different ones. Have a look at the "Biggest clans"-thread for examples.

That being said, I like the core idea of this.

3.) Set character roles/class rollouts? I don't know if this is actually possible, but maybe giving players the ability to choose the type of survivor they want to play that might impact them ingame? You want to play a bandit? We shall skin you in such a way that others may be warned that you are out to harm them and you may be shot on sight. You want to play a doctor? We shall skin you in such a way that others may recognize that you intend on being non combatant and a beacon for safe treatment.

[/Quote]

This has been discussed heavily before, in some sense. We used to have bandit skins and that actually worked to a degree. But with the donation shop open with skins, you'd have to limit the kind of skins to people depending on what they'd want to play as.

Also, some people like playing different roles, and this would be quite limiting for them.

A class and skill system(not sure if you're suggesting that as well) would be very awesome, but unfortunetly that was deemed as unfeasible due to limitations in the arma2 engine.

4.) Rules discussion open forum. A section on the forum where players may come up with ideas to add/change in the rules, that may be discussed by the community as a whole. You might have already noticed that in the reports forum, everybody is a lawyer. Loop holes will be discovered, discussed, amended, proven, or disproved in a forum where the players who they might apply to can discuss them.

[/Quote]

A nice enough idea, although personally I think the suggestions forum is enough.

5.) Consequences to bandits. Make life as a bandit more difficult. Currently, in this server, playing a bandit is living the easy life. Free cars, guns, supplies, all for killing people who are ill prepared.

[/Quote]

I sort of agree to this. Playing a bandit is not neccecerily walking the easy lane, it can be a path filled with complications and bans(rule violations or not).

Still, I think some bandits should adjust their roleplay and start to value their lives more, and not throw themselves against settlements so frequently.

A stricter ruleset perhaps? It would need to be carefully balanced, because right now it is already quite easy for bandits to fall into a "ban-trap".

What the community can do for themselves?

1.) Engage in roleplay! Strike up a conversation! Tell somebody something about your character! Create a roleplay thread/story! Make it a point to make encounters ingame something MORE than a paranoid fumble every time you see somebody you don't know!

[/Quote]

*thumbs up*

People are too jittery and value their gear over roleplaying experiences. This of course needs to be balanced with a fear for their lives, so -some- matter of paranoia is warrented.

2.) Encourage roleplay over ruleplay! "He's initiated on me. KoS him when you see him." "Yes, you have KoS rights on him and his clan if you see the tag." "He's the CR, he can kick you out without you getting KoS rights on him." "Make sure you tell him you are going to shoot him if he doesn't comply."

I understand TS banter and explanation won't exactly change much. But the mindset going into most situations that I've seen (In playing with MANY different players) is that the moment you begin interacting with another player, you're setting the table to what will likely result in a report thread posted later that evening. Maybe instead of just robbing a player and sending them on their way, you kidnap them for interaction? Maybe you drag them away and make them participate in the hunger games Elektrogorsk edition? Give them a hatchet and tell them to fight their way out of a barracks full of zombies? Make their survival a story worth telling rather than a KoS report worth filing?

[/Quote]

Best suggestion I've read all day. You truly hit the nail on the head with this one, as this is exactly what more people need to do.

Way too much ruleplay over roleplay currently going on.

3.) Communication. I've seen this in many games with prominent roleplay communities before. Grudges built OOC'ly over actions made IC'ly. One thing this server has never had (Past Metagaming and Godmoding) is a separation between IC and OOC interactions. Have you ever been in the same teamspeak channel as the person who you are robbing? Or being robbed by? Have you ever been civil with the players you were in a firefight with that lasted a half hour? Have you ever tried being friendly with a member of DogPigs, or SDS, or any other bandit group while on TS? One thing that is SO massively important when you're trying to maintain a roleplay community is to separate IC and OOC. What my character does, feels, believes, or says, in no way bind his actions to my personal feelings. An example. Jedediah dislikes Mike Diaz. Mike Diaz dislikes Jedediah. On TS, the two are good friends. They know that their characters arguing is part of a roleplay story they are adding to, and not an insult directed at them, the player. I feel as though if the players who do end up killing eachother just attempt to be civil and friendly afterwards OOC'ly, this place would get along so much smoother.

[/Quote]

A great idea, and if only more people adhered to it. Unfortunetly, separated IC from OOC can be tricky, especielly to novice roleplayers. Hell I've met a lot of older roleplayers that still has problems with it.

That doesnt mean people should stop trying though, because carrying OOC grudges over IC actions is as silly as it gets.

4.) Clan communication. This ties with 3. Having clans with their own grudges and alliances with other clans is fantastic. It can add SO MUCH to a busy rp community for both the clan members involved and the civilian players who know about it. But having clans that dislike each other on an out of character level is beyond poor play. Having played with members of Salvation, and logging onto Dayzrp's TS to be told 'Fuck you, you run with Salvation' OOC'ly by a player I had never met before? They don't know me. They refused to give me a chance. How does this contribute to a community? Clans can war against each other, or side with each other in whatever shifting ways they like. But maintaining communication, even at the minimum between leadership, would make a huge difference in sorting out interactions that happen between clans. Could you even imagine this forum without 50 new formal reports a day because of grudges against certain clans?

An excellent idea, and currently one of the major problems I have with the community as a whole.

This goes hand to hand with clan egoes and "performance rivalries", where clans post "omg we pwned u here" "omg no u didnt we were just 2, not 6" "Omg lies" etc etc. You see that -VERY- frequently, clans behaving like toddlers.

I'd LOVE for a more mature attitude to take place there, but unfortunetly I am going to be a bit pessimistic there and say that it coincides with the nature of PvP and is unlikely to change.

All in all, a great list of suggestions. Thank you for taking the time writing this.

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PCJames    151

Nicely made.....nicely made

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Caesar    438

To your first point about white lists. They are already reviewed in the strictest possible light. In fact they are almost at a standstill.

As for reading through background stories, They are read and only the better ones are accepted. This especially comes down to the question have they considered it through and made a story that makes logical sense and shown a willingness to play a role in the community?

I believe the class and skill system has been reviewed and is unfortunately not feasible.

As for rule changes. I would support another forum for speaking about rule changes specifically. However, while it is true that we take community feedback in this regard we as staff will still have to make the final decision, remembering that we have to make rules that both help the servers, promote a good play environment and can be enforced with our current toolset.

Perhaps we could have the forum layed out as such

Rules Discussion

Then threads for each rule currently, for example.

1. The KoS rule.

2. NLR.

3. OOC etc.

And the ability to create new threads for potential new rules.

Another thing I have been thinking of is some people believe the current rule-set is still not explicit enough. I would suggest we have both the shortish version we have now but also a longer version for those that want precise rules for certainty. The shorter version should still be enough to prevent you getting in trouble if you have a modicum of good sense.

Perhaps a read more button that expands a particular rule section? It may not work at all.

The example I can think of is the NLR rule.

Many people confuse the intent of the rule and think if they just do not touch their body they are fine. We could have a read more section that explicitly states NLR nullifies KoS rights and passing KoS rights after death is metagaming. In addition you cannot return to within x metres for y amount of time of your death.

Lastly with OOC hate I would be inclined to agree 100%, we are already cracking down on the nastiness that happens in reports however I have also seen some quite appalling OOC hate, it is not necessary.

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Jedediah    0

To your first point about white lists. They are already reviewed in the strictest possible light. In fact they are almost at a standstill.

As for reading through background stories, They are read and only the better ones are accepted. This especially comes down to the question have they considered it through and made a story that makes logical sense and shown a willingness to play a role in the community?

That's all I need to hear on that.

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MartinJ    1

Examples of the most common misunderstandings = rule breaks usually work best when it comes to having to elaborate on rules. However keep in mind that a lot of people who will question the clarity of rules are merely trying to argue their way out.

I will elaborate further when I get home from work, but from what I've skimmed through the OP it seems like you made some excellent points, Jedediah.

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Jedediah    0

All in all, a great list of suggestions. Thank you for taking the time writing this.

Thanks, bro.

2.) Encourage, or even reward roleplay over killing. Adding a commend player feature on the forum? Giving forum goodies for players who have been given good roleplay reviews? Add reviews to player profiles for others to comment on a thought out character or good roleplay scene?

[/Quote]

I like the idea of encouraging good roleplayers and people who have behaved maturely and been helpful. But I think it needs to be based on the right things. We'd need an unbiased pair of people to look around for such community members and do a bit of digging on "potential candidates for reward", I think.

If we based it on reviews, we'd have people that simply are friends of other people. Because that's how most reviews work: They're based on friendship, and not neccecerily awesome RP quality. This is why there's generally so few names that stand out, and why there's so many different ones. Have a look at the "Biggest clans"-thread for examples.

That being said, I like the core idea of this.

Certainly it has a lot of room to become a bumpfest between friends, but baseless reviews that are obviously made from friend to friend in a never ending ego stroke won't be taken seriously. But imagine clicking on your profile and seeing a known bandit and enemy of your character posting 'Great roleplayer, the interaction we had during the robbery earlier today was a lot of fun.' or something to that effect wouldn't make the whole situation seem less dire? It would encourage people to be on better behavior because their actual standing in the community would effect the community's reception of them? There are hundreds of ways this could go wrong, but if it could go right, it would be great.

3.) Set character roles/class rollouts? I don't know if this is actually possible, but maybe giving players the ability to choose the type of survivor they want to play that might impact them ingame? You want to play a bandit? We shall skin you in such a way that others may be warned that you are out to harm them and you may be shot on sight. You want to play a doctor? We shall skin you in such a way that others may recognize that you intend on being non combatant and a beacon for safe treatment.

[/Quote]

This has been discussed heavily before, in some sense. We used to have bandit skins and that actually worked to a degree. But with the donation shop open with skins, you'd have to limit the kind of skins to people depending on what they'd want to play as.

Also, some people like playing different roles, and this would be quite limiting for them.

A class and skill system(not sure if you're suggesting that as well) would be very awesome, but unfortunetly that was deemed as unfeasible due to limitations in the arma2 engine.

I thought as much when I was typing it, there is only so much you can do with arma2.

4.) Rules discussion open forum. A section on the forum where players may come up with ideas to add/change in the rules, that may be discussed by the community as a whole. You might have already noticed that in the reports forum, everybody is a lawyer. Loop holes will be discovered, discussed, amended, proven, or disproved in a forum where the players who they might apply to can discuss them.

[/Quote]

A nice enough idea, although personally I think the suggestions forum is enough.

It would be, save for the sifting through threads. Maybe a sub forum inside of the suggestion forum? A place focused on it.

5.) Consequences to bandits. Make life as a bandit more difficult. Currently, in this server, playing a bandit is living the easy life. Free cars, guns, supplies, all for killing people who are ill prepared.

[/Quote]

I sort of agree to this. Playing a bandit is not neccecerily walking the easy lane, it can be a path filled with complications and bans(rule violations or not).

Still, I think some bandits should adjust their roleplay and start to value their lives more, and not throw themselves against settlements so frequently.

A stricter ruleset perhaps? It would need to be carefully balanced, because right now it is already quite easy for bandits to fall into a "ban-trap".

By what you're saying (And I agree.), being a bandit is hard because you can easily be banned. This should not be the case. Being a bandit should be hard because you are outnumbered. Because you are not allowed in safe zones. Because you are chased away on sight. Being a bandit should be a black mark on your reputation, not a mask you can wear to make all the other players fear you.

Could you imagine if when you become a bandit, your skin changes and you can't change out of it, and that skin means you aren't allowed in player camps and would be shot at for attempting to enter? Being cut off from regular means to resupply because it is more dangerous for you as a bandit to be in an area where survivors are? Make playing a bandit playing on hard mode.

What the community can do for themselves?

1.) Engage in roleplay! Strike up a conversation! Tell somebody something about your character! Create a roleplay thread/story! Make it a point to make encounters ingame something MORE than a paranoid fumble every time you see somebody you don't know!

[/Quote]

*thumbs up*

People are too jittery and value their gear over roleplaying experiences. This of course needs to be balanced with a fear for their lives, so -some- matter of paranoia is warrented.

2.) Encourage roleplay over ruleplay! "He's initiated on me. KoS him when you see him." "Yes, you have KoS rights on him and his clan if you see the tag." "He's the CR, he can kick you out without you getting KoS rights on him." "Make sure you tell him you are going to shoot him if he doesn't comply."

I understand TS banter and explanation won't exactly change much. But the mindset going into most situations that I've seen (In playing with MANY different players) is that the moment you begin interacting with another player, you're setting the table to what will likely result in a report thread posted later that evening. Maybe instead of just robbing a player and sending them on their way, you kidnap them for interaction? Maybe you drag them away and make them participate in the hunger games Elektrogorsk edition? Give them a hatchet and tell them to fight their way out of a barracks full of zombies? Make their survival a story worth telling rather than a KoS report worth filing?

[/Quote]

Best suggestion I've read all day. You truly hit the nail on the head with this one, as this is exactly what more people need to do.

Way too much ruleplay over roleplay currently going on.

3.) Communication. I've seen this in many games with prominent roleplay communities before. Grudges built OOC'ly over actions made IC'ly. One thing this server has never had (Past Metagaming and Godmoding) is a separation between IC and OOC interactions. Have you ever been in the same teamspeak channel as the person who you are robbing? Or being robbed by? Have you ever been civil with the players you were in a firefight with that lasted a half hour? Have you ever tried being friendly with a member of DogPigs, or SDS, or any other bandit group while on TS? One thing that is SO massively important when you're trying to maintain a roleplay community is to separate IC and OOC. What my character does, feels, believes, or says, in no way bind his actions to my personal feelings. An example. Jedediah dislikes Mike Diaz. Mike Diaz dislikes Jedediah. On TS, the two are good friends. They know that their characters arguing is part of a roleplay story they are adding to, and not an insult directed at them, the player. I feel as though if the players who do end up killing eachother just attempt to be civil and friendly afterwards OOC'ly, this place would get along so much smoother.

[/Quote]

A great idea, and if only more people adhered to it. Unfortunetly, separated IC from OOC can be tricky, especielly to novice roleplayers. Hell I've met a lot of older roleplayers that still has problems with it.

That doesnt mean people should stop trying though, because carrying OOC grudges over IC actions is as silly as it gets.

4.) Clan communication. This ties with 3. Having clans with their own grudges and alliances with other clans is fantastic. It can add SO MUCH to a busy rp community for both the clan members involved and the civilian players who know about it. But having clans that dislike each other on an out of character level is beyond poor play. Having played with members of Salvation, and logging onto Dayzrp's TS to be told 'Fuck you, you run with Salvation' OOC'ly by a player I had never met before? They don't know me. They refused to give me a chance. How does this contribute to a community? Clans can war against each other, or side with each other in whatever shifting ways they like. But maintaining communication, even at the minimum between leadership, would make a huge difference in sorting out interactions that happen between clans. Could you even imagine this forum without 50 new formal reports a day because of grudges against certain clans?

An excellent idea, and currently one of the major problems I have with the community as a whole.

This goes hand to hand with clan egoes and "performance rivalries", where clans post "omg we pwned u here" "omg no u didnt we were just 2, not 6" "Omg lies" etc etc. You see that -VERY- frequently, clans behaving like toddlers.

I'd LOVE for a more mature attitude to take place there, but unfortunetly I am going to be a bit pessimistic there and say that it coincides with the nature of PvP and is unlikely to change.

Sounds like we agree here.

All in all, a great list of suggestions. Thank you for taking the time writing this.

Thanks, bro.

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Avah    0

Thank you very much Jedediah for the effort you put in typing up this constructive list of suggestions and criticism.

What I took from your post is that the essence of it is that we need a community shift in how we think about our roleplay and how it affects others' experience. You had me when you said "... roleplay over ruleplay." and I agree, we absolutely should encourage people to advance their character's stories over advancing their weaponry. To create interesting roleplay situations that are enjoyable for all parties involved.

Rewarding good roleplay is a really nice idea, though we'd have to put some serious thought into how that'd be done and what rewards it may be.

I like the suggestion about reviews, but maybe it should be more about the character than the player. It could be an idea to see if it's possible to implement some sort of simple* character bio system, with background, journal/stories, picture, and whatever details you may want to enter. There could be a section where after meeting a character people can go leave a little story or notations about them or the encounter. This isn't necessarily going to fix anything, but it may make people more inclined to make an effort, to see their bio fill out and actually be able to follow your character development. Helping that mind shift along.

(*I don't know what I'm talking about, maybe that's very tricky to code, please don't yell at me Emperor Rolle!)

I agree that it shouldn't be an easy life being a bandit, but at least to me, and I'm sure most people, they are absolutely necessary to the DayZRP experience. There's nothing that gives me a bigger rush ingame than when I hear a vehicle go by, throwing myself to the ground, hoping they won't see me.

They bring an element of unpredictable fear and danger - and with this, I think it's their responsibility to make the experience of actually being captured interesting, even if it's terrifying, for the victim. Make an effort, and as a victim, make an effort to respond and do things the bandits can play off of. I know I'm probably guilty of being fear-struck and going unnaturally quiet unless asked questions.

Again, thanks for opening up this discussion with well presented points. I'm definitely going to continue to have a think on this. :)

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Jedediah    0

What I took from your post is that the essence of it is that we need a community shift in how we think about our roleplay and how it affects others' experience. You had me when you said "... roleplay over ruleplay." and I agree, we absolutely should encourage people to advance their character's stories over advancing their weaponry. To create interesting roleplay situations that are enjoyable for all parties involved.

Rewarding good roleplay is a really nice idea, though we'd have to put some serious thought into how that'd be done and what rewards it may be.

Could you imagine the server if for 1 week the only weapon available was a winchester and makarov? Only tools available were a map and compass? No vehicles? I think that would actually be interesting to see how everybody acts when you aren't concerned with getting what they have.

I agree that it shouldn't be an easy life being a bandit, but at least to me, and I'm sure most people, they are absolutely necessary to the DayZRP experience. There's nothing that gives me a bigger rush ingame than when I hear a vehicle go by, throwing myself to the ground, hoping they won't see me.

They bring an element of unpredictable fear and danger - and with this, I think it's their responsibility to make the experience of actually being captured interesting, even if it's terrifying, for the victim. Make an effort, and as a victim, make an effort to respond and do things the bandits can play off of. I know I'm probably guilty of being fear-struck and going unnaturally quiet unless asked questions.

Agreed, but what I suggest is make gameplay for a bandit harder. The threat of excommunication from the rest of the survivors? Having to look over your shoulder because you're at risk of being killed? It would give them the same sense of horror.

I'm about to rob this person in the grocery store, I need to be quick about this and get out, because if anyone sees this, they will KNOW who to shoot.

I want to go to Sanctuary to see about refiling my canteen. Man. I can't. I shot at their walls a week ago, they'll recognize me and it will be over.

Again, thanks for opening up this discussion with well presented points. I'm definitely going to continue to have a think on this. :)

Thanks, bro.

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ktbur    9

Perhaps we could have the forum layed out as such

Rules Discussion

Then threads for each rule currently, for example.

1. The KoS rule.

2. NLR.

3. OOC etc.

And the ability to create new threads for potential new rules.

Another thing I have been thinking of is some people believe the current rule-set is still not explicit enough. I would suggest we have both the shortish version we have now but also a longer version for those that want precise rules for certainty. The shorter version should still be enough to prevent you getting in trouble if you have a modicum of good sense.

Perhaps a read more button that expands a particular rule section? It may not work at all.

The example I can think of is the NLR rule.

Many people confuse the intent of the rule and think if they just do not touch their body they are fine. We could have a read more section that explicitly states NLR nullifies KoS rights and passing KoS rights after death is metagaming. In addition you cannot return to within x metres for y amount of time of your death.

I cannot agree with this more. When I first started playing and reading through the rules, I found that the shortened version was perhaps a bit too brief. It was only after asking players ooc-ly that I got a better grasp of the rules. It would be helpful if the rules can be updated with additional information, complete with examples with a drop down menu. Even with veteran players, many of the rules are still unclear, especially in regards to NLR as you have mentioned. Some seem to think that you are not breaking NLR if you were KOS'd, where is definitely not the case. By making the rules more accessible, it would encourage the new players to read through them carefully before being whitelisted.

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Jedediah    0

As for rule changes. I would support another forum for speaking about rule changes specifically. However, while it is true that we take community feedback in this regard we as staff will still have to make the final decision, remembering that we have to make rules that both help the servers, promote a good play environment and can be enforced with our current toolset.

I agree that the final say should be staff-side. But the section itself would be a huge open invitation for communication between staff and community.

Perhaps we could have the forum layed out as such

Rules Discussion

Then threads for each rule currently, for example.

1. The KoS rule.

2. NLR.

3. OOC etc.

And the ability to create new threads for potential new rules.

Another thing I have been thinking of is some people believe the current rule-set is still not explicit enough. I would suggest we have both the shortish version we have now but also a longer version for those that want precise rules for certainty. The shorter version should still be enough to prevent you getting in trouble if you have a modicum of good sense.

Perhaps a read more button that expands a particular rule section? It may not work at all.

The example I can think of is the NLR rule.

Many people confuse the intent of the rule and think if they just do not touch their body they are fine. We could have a read more section that explicitly states NLR nullifies KoS rights and passing KoS rights after death is metagaming. In addition you cannot return to within x metres for y amount of time of your death.

That sounds good. Again, with the way reports fly on this forum, everybody and their mother is a lawyer. Any angle that you could imagine would be found in this section. While I think having a section for each existing rule would be a little bit extended, it does make the most sense. Maybe one large section (Like the Suggestion section) with several sub forums would be good. Also, possibly a final section (Which will probably be the most active) for rule proposals? (That might be best to remain in the suggestion forum.)

Lastly with OOC hate I would be inclined to agree 100%, we are already cracking down on the nastiness that happens in reports however I have also seen some quite appalling OOC hate, it is not necessary.

Agreed.

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Undead    229

I recently arrived here at DayzRp however I have noticed a lot of things in my short time here. Many of these points you raise are completely valid and as a player I thank you for raising them. I think it's great to see a member of the community raising their concerns to the public and trying to find the solution. Now my opinions on each of your points are as follows,

1) I can't really say anything about this one as I don't know the quality of other people's whitelist apps, however I know that I put good time into writing me characters backstory before posting as I really wanted to get accepted. I don't know if everyone else did or if they used the generic, my plane crashed after the zombie apocalypse, or I barely escaped the city after it started, etc.

2) I definitely agree with this. Possibly a senior roleplayer rank, or something along those lines. I love to roleplay and that is the whole point of me joining this server was role playing. Even if it is something like sitting around the campfire, explaining to the group why my gask mask has melted into my face after a fire. Although I do see many groups that have amazing roleplay that I appreciate immensely. (I.R.A, Imperial Dragons, Raven Shield Mercs, Enclave, etc.) When these types of clans and group are seriously roleplaying it's like a shining example for everyone to follow. But then there's the people who break the immersion, such as a "doctor" standing outside ravens nest in the middle of an assault running around saying he is going to help people while the cr's are screaming at him to get inside before he is shot. Then he come's out and says something like "I don't care about my life". I find things like this extremely distracting from the normal roleplaying environment and I really dislike that. Then there are groups that make an attempt to roleplay, but then don't bother as it makes things more difficult. Like in a assault on a base, where they say you have 10 seconds for everyone to drop their weapons, count quickly, then mow down an entire group of civs. I find this barely scraping the rules, and not good roleplay at all. I want to see a messenger or something walking up to the fort with no weapons, to inform the CR's of their terms and tell the CR's to inform any civilians in the area that if they want to leave, they have 4 min before the assault begins. Something like this seems a lot better. Or if someone is holding a man hostage inside a area, don't just charge in there ignoring the person's orders if you are a hero group. People should act like they value their lives and the lives of others. There should be some roleplay in which demands are met, or the person holding the hostage leaves with the hostage and lets him go in the woods minutes later. But when the people run right up to you and say 5 seconds to drop the gun before we execute you, I mean it's pretty obvious what the bandit is going to do to his hostage. I've rambled a lot on this point but it's one that is close to me, I really want there to be more roleplay on the server and I find that rewarding people who roleplay very seriously is a way to get even more people attempting to roleplay.

3) I don't agree with this as when it comes to bandits, the whole point of it is that they look like normal people. One of the major points in a post-apocalyptic scenario is teaching yourself who you have to trust in situations. Do you ask this man for a ride, knowing that he can kidnap you, rob you, or murder you? If all bandits had the same type of skin there wouldn't be that mystery. Determining who is friendly and who isn't is a decision made quickly by you and is a major part of roleplay. Adding specific skins to bandits would ruin that.

4) I definitely agree with you here. A section such as this would be great as great ideas for new rules could be brought up by players, and rules that just don't work in the metagame could be examined.

5) I disagree with this. I have played as a survivor, a bandit, and a hero in the past, and the way the system works now is the way it should remain. Yes, bandits get many guns, cars, and other items. But remember that they only have each other. The bandits are hunted constantly by the many lawful good clans on here and their lives are very dangerous. They are constantly fighting against humans and therefor have a greater chance of death. As a civilian, many of times you have options. If you goto ravens nest you have an entire clan dedicated on attempting to keep you safe. You don't have to fight, you can just drop your guns and leave. Bandits don't have that opportunity to just goto a place with a bunch of other survivors and hang out. So although, yes they do get many items, their life style isn't the best and has it's own set of positives and negatives (imo).

Next Section

1) This is easy, people should definitly start role playing their characters more. I mean more then just putting on a fake cheesy russian accent(although I appreciate people trying), I would love if people sitting at the ravens nest didn't just go there to afk or grab a drink, everyone should sit around the campfire explaining each's back story, what's going on in the world, etc. Also please more stories then the, my shipped wrecked, my plane crashed, I was in the city but escaped. Be creative guys!

2) I agree with the roleplay over ruleplay. I feel as though the teamspeak issue is an intresting one and I would love some feed back from other people. Everyone says that teamspeak is considred a radio but no one actually roleplays over teamspeak as if it's a radio from what i've seen. I feel as though if we treated in game channels in teamspeak like a radio, it would add on more to the roleplay elements. Also, when you take someone's radio in a kidnapping or something, they still report their location to their teamates, and if they actually showed up, they would just say, "Oh he called us in before you destroyed/took the radio" Come on. Do you expect me to belive that in the middle of getting robbed by a bandit point blank, that you would be able to talk into your radio without him noticing. I don't really see a fix for this. I remember an old rp server I was a part of had a channel specificly designed for if your radio was destroyed. You had to join the channel and mute your mic. You weren't allowed to contact anyone in teamspeak as it would be meta gaming. It worked, but we didn't have enough administrators/gms/mods to actually enforce the rule. Or mabye if you talk in teamspeak you have to talk in game as well. I mean if you are talking into your radio in front of somoene they are likely to hear exactly what you are saying. I think it's just common roleplay sense that if you are getting robbed at point blank, you won't be able to get to your radio and be able to inform your teamates what's going on. Meta gaming for me is one of my big pet peaves with people and roleplaying. As I feel as though people can't help but metagame in most situations.

3. You touch on another extremely important point here. OOC arguments to often become a problem in game and vise versa. Just because i'm robbing you right now dosn't mean that i'm a scumbag IRL, it just means that my character is being a bandit and needs some gear. However there are those people/groups that purposly roleplay badly so that they will be disliked by people out of game as well. I feel as though people could be more civil overall however. For example lets say I have a group of 5+me who want to raid ravens nest as we have recived intel that there is a stash of gear in there. This is the way I would try to play it out.

1. I would position my men in the woods and hills.

2. I would walk up to the front of ravens nest unarmed and state to the cr's that a raid is about to occur by a group and tell them to announce to any civilians that it is safe to leave for the next 2 min, however after that time the area will be considred a firefight zone.

3. Hopefully in good roleplay the CR's would allow me to back up out of the area as going near there was the only way I could intiate and inform them of the raid(Voice distance.Don't kill the messanger)

4. Once all the civs have left we would begin the assault.

However assaulting a place like this is neigh impossible if the defenders are doing their jobs. All they have to do is wait at one of the few entrances hidden and wait for the bandits to enter into a choke point and mow them down. However they are always insistant on peaking out on the bandits which cause them to lose the fights. But it should be hard-

Will finish in a bit.

That's all I have time to write for now and I will update this in a bit.

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Guest WinslowBarington   
Guest WinslowBarington

Jed nailing threads like a boss

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the roleplay on this server would be considered subpar on many levels in most rp communities.

Although I hate bad roleplay, I also hate extremely strict roleplay servers. I think that most of the roleplay (keyword most), is actually very good. It's not always 100% serious, but it's fun. I play an extreme Christian cultist, it's not stupid and it doesn't break roleplay, but it's fun. A lot of roleplay servers make stupid-amount of rules and limit everyone to the same generic character, which thankfully this server does not do.

But then there's this,

1.) Look deeper into the whitelist applications for quality roleplay over generalized paraphrasing of the rules. (Read the back story, not just the rule confirmation)

I also feel that the whitelist should be stricter, I spoke to someone on TS (wont name any names) that apparently didn't use any grammar at all. I even think my original whitelist app was pretty crap, I was ready to redo it.

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Daexarayan    0

the roleplay on this server would be considered subpar on many levels in most rp communities.

Although I hate bad roleplay, I also hate extremely strict roleplay servers. I think that most of the roleplay (keyword most), is actually very good. It's not always 100% serious, but it's fun. I play an extreme Christian cultist, it's not stupid and it doesn't break roleplay, but it's fun. A lot of roleplay servers make stupid-amount of rules and limit everyone to the same generic character, which thankfully this server does not do.

But then there's this,

1.) Look deeper into the whitelist applications for quality roleplay over generalized paraphrasing of the rules. (Read the back story, not just the rule confirmation)

I also feel that the whitelist should be stricter, I spoke to someone on TS (wont name any names) that apparently didn't use any grammar at all. I even think my original whitelist app was pretty crap, I was ready to redo it.

Strict roleplay ruled servers are 100% necessary especially when you have 180+ people on most of the time. If not people are just going to do what they do, take advantage of every single situation they can. DAYZRP use to be very lax, it has evolved into what it is today because of the way people are.

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the roleplay on this server would be considered subpar on many levels in most rp communities.

Although I hate bad roleplay, I also hate extremely strict roleplay servers. I think that most of the roleplay (keyword most), is actually very good. It's not always 100% serious, but it's fun. I play an extreme Christian cultist, it's not stupid and it doesn't break roleplay, but it's fun. A lot of roleplay servers make stupid-amount of rules and limit everyone to the same generic character, which thankfully this server does not do.

But then there's this,

1.) Look deeper into the whitelist applications for quality roleplay over generalized paraphrasing of the rules. (Read the back story, not just the rule confirmation)

I also feel that the whitelist should be stricter, I spoke to someone on TS (wont name any names) that apparently didn't use any grammar at all. I even think my original whitelist app was pretty crap, I was ready to redo it.

Strict roleplay ruled servers are 100% necessary especially when you have 180+ people on most of the time. If not people are just going to do what they do, take advantage of every single situation they can. DAYZRP use to be very lax, it has evolved into what it is today because of the way people are.

nonono, I did not at all mean that the server is overly strict. The server's strictness is perfect. I am comparing it to other roleplay servers where the rules are so strict that the roleplay seems extremely stale and boring. DayzRP's strictness is perfect.

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MartinJ    1

There's a major difference between a strict roleplay server and a roleplay server with a lot of (usually shitty) rules. A strict roleplay only differs in a single rule, and that's the enforcement of high quality roleplay. IC/OOC separation, etc. That's something this server is still lacking and I wish it was easier to policy that on ArmA.

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Mace    10

I think that one step toward a solution is to involve the Game Masters in the game, and not simply the filing of reports and getting that section done. That is part of the game, but generally when I think of the term I think of someone who is doing something in the actual game. That isn't to say you shouldn't try to help at times, of course, but really we should have more events like what Tomeran has done with the invasion series.

The presence of the staff should be felt in the game. It can be fun to see "Oh look, Caesar is online." I think there should be a point where when you see someone come online you would simultaneously be happy because you know you have the opportunity of some engaging RP or mini-event if you are lucky enough to be a part of it, or dread because you know that something may happen and it may not be pretty or happy.

From my own experience I don't think I've seen any of the spawned hordes from the failure of the Battle of Pobeda Dam and the Battle of Zelenogorsk. I think if the admins, gamemasters, whoever is really over such things could send out an area echo with something along the lines of "You hear something in the distance, the groaning and snarling of the hungry undead you've come to know by heart, but amplified. It beats like a battle hymn just over the hill." You have the chance to do something to stop them, try to fight back a large group of zombies by yourself or with a group, or allow them to take an area where you could fall back from and prepare an attempt at pushing them back.

Remember that with a zombie apocalypse it's never about winning, after all, it's about buying time to try to survive. The more pragmatic characters know that there is more than likely not going to be a cure, or a day in the future when they'll be able to think back to the "dark times" and laugh while sitting on their porch watching the sunset with their grandchildren. A lot of people were pushing for the ridiculously overpowered zombies to be reinstated, but I think instead of that, actually using the loss that we, as the players, suffered, to allow for larger hordes to filter in and attack people is much more true to the idea of a zombie apocalypse.

Now on to some other things so I don't spend all of my time harping on a single idea: Role-play rewards. This is something else that would tie in with the responsibility of the staff who I agree with Caesar, are really the only ones you can trust to give unbiased reviews of the role-play of people. Now this isn't just "Oh look they stayed in character for a while, great RP!" but if you see something that really touches you, takes you aback, or makes you feel like you were there in that moment with them, give them some kind of invisible tally point. Keep a nice little staff-only forum up where you talk about burgeoning players, and when they gain enough of these little tally points...Maybe let them have one of the cheap donation skins.

Now I know from a business standpoint that this is probably never going to happen, but if you think about it, giving people something that has an appreciable value would actually make them work toward it. And if you set your standards high enough (And they should be very very high for this), you get people who are going to be bettering themselves, and bettered by others, and it shifts the focus of the game a little bit away from DayZShoot-U-N-Face to DayZRP the way it should be, I think.

If this were impossible, of course, there are alternatives. You could have a "Role-player of the Month/Year" award where the staff look through logs or could even make it an open chance at people being nominated for them to look at and vote for. Perhaps a special title or a fancy color on their name for a little bit, or just something to put in their signature out of pride. If you incentivize good role-playing, you give people a reason to role-play well.

Now here is the part where I'm sure I'll lose a lot of people, and that's fine. It's simply what I believe needs to happen in order to make the server better: Setting clear-cut precedents for rules and the rulings of cases. I have seen, and heard, about people who have presented evidence of a case that has been much like their own, only for it to have no effect on a report made about them or by them. Now I know that this is run by Rolle and he and the staff are more than free to do whatever they want whenever they want, but they don't. They don't randomly make people dance for 30 minutes a week because they think it's funny, it is still a very serious thing and I think allowing people to present the precedent of older reports would make a lot of situations clearer and clear up misconceptions about staff bias or laziness.

If the same thing happened to me that happened to someone else and there are no real appreciable differences in the cases, they should obviously have the same outcome, regardless of who the victim and bandit are in the situation. Again, this point will probably be considered controversial but it needs to be said and I like to think that I'm known well enough by enough people on the staff that you can tell I'm saying it from a place of wanting to better the server and not trying to simply whine or act indignant because something hasn't gone my way in the past.

My final suggestion is this: Ban trolls. Period. People who troll detract from RP, and when they, or anyone else, who are punished simply come back to do it again it allows other players to know that there is no real reason to worry about your actions. You go and troll somewhere else for three or five days, and there are always appeals where friends and those who have no business chiming in can try to tout your good graces and how much RP you bring to the server even if you don't.

Punish lack of IC action. I remember when RP was made mandatory (Back in my day...) and a lot of people literally said they didn't know how to role-play or weren't very experienced in it despite the name of the server being DayZRP. There are still people here who have bad habits of almost never being in character, or doing stupid things for attention when there's a big group of people together.

From an IC standpoint, and I want the people who read this to think deeply about it, a group of people who sit together around a fire in a post-apocalyptic setting share something with each other that, even if no one says a word, should speak volumes about their character. They come from different parts of the earth. They led different lives. Everything about them was unique, but the world or fate or whatever you want to blame has conspired to throw them together into this one situation where one night they stare at each other around a crackling fire, clinging to the idea that together they will be safe, that they can stave off the darkness, the death, the decay that waits just outside or just over the hill.

It should be something that, to many characters who do not have a large group or family, is calming and uplifting, even if you must always be on your guard for thieves or those who may wish to take advantage of you. It's not something many people ever get to experience, and it should be an emotion situation. You shouldn't be crab walking around in a funny position just because it makes you giggle.

In the same vein I think that a lack of RP or poor RP that is recorded and sent in should be able to award people with warning points if it isn't already. Give them the chance to improve, offer them help (I know there are plenty of threads that are devoted to clearing up misconceptions and helping with basics of role-play), but if they refuse, it is no longer ignorance, it is stupidity, and it shouldn't be condoned.

Wow, things got a little dark there at the end didn't they? Those were, of course, mostly things that were pointed out to try to make the server a better place, and as was pointed out by our more eloquent friends, that needs to be directed at the staff, while what comes after is geared more toward the community and more than likely the majority of people who will read this (If you get this far).

Don't be afraid. Please. If you need help role-playing, ask someone. If you aren't sure, if you're scared or unsure about your character's premise, about your skills, even about things like motivation and "Would my character be doing this?" you can talk to people. Hell I'll say this right now: My PM box is always open if anyone ever needs help with a character concept. I'm far from the best, but I have been around a long time and I like to think that I can at least give people someone to bounce ideas off of.

You aren't alone. It's not just about shooting, robberies, firefights, invasions. No. That's what DayZ is. DayZRP is about you, the player, looking through the lens of a character who has seen horrible things. Things that would drive many to madness or suicide, and yet who still live on because of something special. I'm not the one to say what that something special is, but everyone who plays a character here has it within themselves ICly. Your character, whether you realize it or not, has survived for days, weeks, months, because there is something meant for them, because you have put that kind of effort into them, and there will always be a community here to talk to you and help you.

I think that's enough for now. I may throw up more ideas later but that should be enough rambling for now.

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