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Cedrea

XML rule

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In the past days, there were at least two major incidents regarding this. The first one was the Enclave using a civilian to lure an BHM truck in a trap and the second one happened at Sanctuary when the settlement got attacked by DogPigs and a civilian(this are the incidents that I am aware of, there might be more).

None of this civilians was wearing any sort of XML tag. This is a problem. If a clan can get a drop on another clan by using civilians without XML tags(meaning the other clan has not even the smallest idea of what's coming) then why is a XML even required? The way this rule is by-passed is by saying this: "Oh but the civilian was tagging along with us, he is not a part of our group".

There is a simple solution to this. Every clan can have a different XML tag for this kind of operations. This way if anyone is tagging along there is no unfair advantages.

What's your opinion about this?

Edit: If anyone else think he got a better solution for this, please post it here, we NEED it.

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Or, using civilians as exploits for clans would not be allowed at all and should probably already be against the rules. :P

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Alot of clans are starting to use "Initiate" Tags. So it would be something like BHM(i). That always would say your working with them but aren't officially part of them. And I agree with what Dave said, there should be some kind of rule about it.

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Guest darkphaty

Honestly, I believe that if you are going to rob or raid with or in a clan it should be considered a CLAN OPERATION. So if you take one of these situations, I will go with robbing the truck, the civilian(s) obviously had hostile intentions to the BHM or wanted the BHM members killed or robbed, and if they were helping out Enclave do this task (which is probably BHM's biggest enemy) it should be known as a clan operation and the civilians would need to be apart of Enclave (HAVE AN XML). This is probably one of the biggest problems of DayZRP, I just had a situation like this earlier and I literally just posted a report discussion. In my case, I got chloroformed by a non enclave member which before, led me to believe that he was no threat to me while I was playing on my BHM character, but in the end I was killed by him and his enclave friends.

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Sadly, right now, the rules only apply to clan members. If a clan member does not wear his XML he gets punished.

What I am aiming to do with this thread is that any civilian used by a clan without a XML(clan's XML or a special XML for this situation) will lead to the clan getting a punishment.

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Guest Vadim Dyatlov

I support this 100%. I'm sick of picking up a civilian only to be initiated on by as if he was a member of a full clan.

coughfatcampandclfcough

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Yeah. Basically, already an unwritten rule.

If it were to be specified, it'd have to be something along the lines of,

"ALL players who intend to operate alongside clans MUST have a working XML identifying them at least loosely with the group they are working with. i.e. 'BHM initiate', 'NAPA initiate'."

This'd clear up many KOS reports as well as make firefights much more realistic and fluid without having to stare at a guy who you can't tell if he's involved until he shoots you.

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To be honest I dont understand at all why there is a squad xml rule at all. It is a ooc way of receive huge amount of info from someone. Squad xml should be optional and not forced.

You say "well it gives unfair advantage". Well you receive that advantage by ooc means. Lets get some examples.

You kill someone and examine them and it says they are from CLF. Now you look at the player list and see that 10 other CLF members are in the server. Now you know you are possibly beign hunted by at least ten other players, and you are ready for them. In real life situation I would not be for sure carying something on me that could jeopardize my members operations by having physical thing that says who I belong to.

Example 2. You see a new guy who wants to tag along with your group, but is hesitated to type. You then finaly get him to type something and blam, you see the clf tag. You againg look at the layer list and see 10 other CLF members. You then tell the guy to bug of and enjoy that you were not surprised by "unfair advantage".

Example 3. You rob and kill CLF member and then run in to a firefight with them. Now you know approximately how many players they have. And you can act according to it. Run away, or fight? Your actions IC is greatly enchanced by ooc infortmation.

There is no "unfair advantage" by not wearing a clan tag. It is harsh reality. Bandits wont tell you "Hey I am from this big blood thirsty group, now can i tag along you guys?".

If something force a rule that forces players to use their character name in clan. Instead of learning that small 3 letter ooc tag, learn their name. ALot more imeersion is gained here.

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To be honest I dont understand at all why there is a squad xml rule at all. It is a ooc way of receive huge amount of info from someone. Squad xml should be optional and not forced.

You say "well it gives unfair advantage". Well you receive that advantage by ooc means. Lets get some examples.

You kill someone and examine them and it says they are from CLF. Now you look at the player list and see that 10 other CLF members are in the server. Now you know you are possibly beign hunted by at least ten other players, and you are ready for them. In real life situation I would not be for sure carying something on me that could jeopardize my members operations by having physical thing that says who I belong to.

Example 2. You see a new guy who wants to tag along with your group, but is hesitated to type. You then finaly get him to type something and blam, you see the clf tag. You againg look at the layer list and see 10 other CLF members. You then tell the guy to bug of and enjoy that you were not surprised by "unfair advantage".

Example 3. You rob and kill CLF member and then run in to a firefight with them. Now you know approximately how many players they have. And you can act according to it. Run away, or fight? Your actions IC is greatly enchanced by ooc infortmation.

There is no "unfair advantage" by not wearing a clan tag. It is harsh reality. Bandits wont tell you "Hey I am from this big blood thirsty group, now can i tag along you guys?".

If something force a rule that forces players to use their character name in clan. Instead of learning that small 3 letter ooc tag, learn their name. ALot more imeersion is gained here.

+1

Thank you Jukki. I absolutly agree. Nothing more to add

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Well, I've heard of people using XML tags as ways of Metagaming their groups on their ID's. Like, someone walks up to you, asks for your ID, and you show them it. Turns out they're with a clan that hates yours, and suddenly you're screwed.

I'd only agree to an XML rule like this, if it added on that your clan isn't shown on your IC ID without the Clan Member specifically saying it does.

My reason being, I don't want people knowing about my clan, who we are, what we do. Total anonymity. We're not glory seekers. We're not here to be a feared name. IF that happens naturally, that's fine, but I don't want it to be forced. I've noticed lately that people just run up to you and say, "Show me your ID if you don't want to get shot." Oh, I'm sorry, I thought this was a zombie apocalypse. I wasn't aware I was some teenager trying to buy beer at the liquor store at midnight on a friday.

It kills my immersion when people just randomly ask for ID.

Also +1 for Jukki's post

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Well, I've heard of people using XML tags as ways of Metagaming their groups on their ID's. Like, someone walks up to you, asks for your ID, and you show them it. Turns out they're with a clan that hates yours, and suddenly you're screwed.

I'd only agree to an XML rule like this, if it added on that your clan isn't shown on your IC ID without the Clan Member specifically saying it does.

My reason being, I don't want people knowing about my clan, who we are, what we do. Total anonymity. We're not glory seekers. We're not here to be a feared name. It that happens naturally, that's fine, but I don't want it to be forced. I've noticed lately that people just run up to you and say, "Show me your ID if you don't want to get shot." Oh, I'm sorry, I thought this was a zombie apocalypse. I wasn't aware I was some teenager trying to buy beer at the liquor store at midnight on a friday.

It kills my immersion when people just randomly ask for ID.

This. +1

And if you are hesitated to show it, they know something is not right or you have something to hide. So they either force it tell you to fuck off.

(if it was up to me i would have players to just chose completly random bunch of letters as name to avoid any kind of "Show ID" Situations.)

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I mean, it makes sense at places like the Raven's Nest. They want to know who's coming in and out of the bar... but some random guy I meet in a field?

I ain't showing you a damn thing, and I'll sure as hell shoot you first if you threaten me to show it.

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Guest CoolGuy

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE. I;m tired of Jedidiah and Allison running around the map with like 4-5 friends each that have no tags. Come on, seriously you cant roll with a bunch of friends for a week+ and not make a clan or some sort of xml. Its a ridiculous advantage to be stealthed behind no XML. message to Jedidiah and Allison, make a group please, you are bending and abusing loop holes.

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I think it should be amended some, for instance civs can roll with a clan but are not allowed to initiate for them or commit any hostile action until action has been taken against either them or the clan they are with.

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Guest ash

The "civilian" that had attacked Sanctuary, was actually a member of Veritas, one of the clans who holds and defends the settlement. This player had simply taken off his Veritas xml tag, and attacked the sanctuary with his character that is part of the clan Veritas. I have however, already contacted the leader of Veritas, and he will be handling the situation of his betrayal.

But anyways, clans should not be allowed to use civilians to conduct operations, I see no problem in them being part of the operation, but they should not be used as traps. I can see if you are attacking a settlement and you have a civilian that wishes to join your clan so they help you attack, but they should not be allowed to initiate such as in the examples of ENC trapping BHM or the attack on sanctuary.

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C'mon people. If you want to change it, give us your opinion.

Edit: Some people have said that civilians are ok to participate in clan operations without XML tags as long as they don't initiate. NO! Think about it. You are in the middle of a firefight against another clan. You have to identify your targets. You see no tag. You have to walk to the fucking target, ID it and it would just shoot you in your damn face after he sees your tag. That is a big no-no.

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You can't see XML tags anyways, unless the person types in local. And if the clan member is wearing a skin that doesn't show the squad patch, you're just as screwed.

The only way you could have a clan be ID'ed by sight alone is the use of a clan specific skin, and that's no fun, cause people want to dress the way they want.

I mean the whole XML rule sort of kills any RP possibilities for say, espionage, scouting, or a player's basic right to remain anon to a potential enemy.

XML tags just enable metagaming, potential KoSing, and in some cases, ooc ranting in local.

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first of all, your solution would not fix your issue. People are still going to use civilians as bait. Its a genuine tactic. From an RP stance, its perfectly viable and reasonable.

Secondly, i do agree that a clan XML should be optional and not required. I mean seriously, it limits RP so much and provokes way too much metagaming. If you want your clan name to be known so you can make a rep for yourself and recruit more people or even be feared *cough cough brotherhood cough cough* then by all means wear it. When I was in sniper school we were forced to wear stripped down versions of a uniform. in my division (MOS:11B ASI:B4) they harped on keeping our identity and position a secret.


To be honest I dont understand at all why there is a squad xml rule at all. It is a ooc way of receive huge amount of info from someone. Squad xml should be optional and not forced.

You say "well it gives unfair advantage". Well you receive that advantage by ooc means. Lets get some examples.

You kill someone and examine them and it says they are from CLF. Now you look at the player list and see that 10 other CLF members are in the server. Now you know you are possibly beign hunted by at least ten other players, and you are ready for them. In real life situation I would not be for sure carying something on me that could jeopardize my members operations by having physical thing that says who I belong to.

Example 2. You see a new guy who wants to tag along with your group, but is hesitated to type. You then finaly get him to type something and blam, you see the clf tag. You againg look at the layer list and see 10 other CLF members. You then tell the guy to bug of and enjoy that you were not surprised by "unfair advantage".

Example 3. You rob and kill CLF member and then run in to a firefight with them. Now you know approximately how many players they have. And you can act according to it. Run away, or fight? Your actions IC is greatly enchanced by ooc infortmation.

There is no "unfair advantage" by not wearing a clan tag. It is harsh reality. Bandits wont tell you "Hey I am from this big blood thirsty group, now can i tag along you guys?".

If something force a rule that forces players to use their character name in clan. Instead of learning that small 3 letter ooc tag, learn their name. ALot more imeersion is gained here.

and this, +1

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The problem I see with no civs at all is what if a clan is helping someone out and then they get pulled into a firefight?

The civilian has to help get back or he will just get killed anyway

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Guest Diviar

IRA just recently killed dog pig members for robbing one person. The person was not apart of IRA and they had no radio. All of a sudden across the entire map a van of IRA starts shooting at us. We had no idea they had KOS on us. This is ridiculous

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To be honest I dont understand at all why there is a squad xml rule at all. It is a ooc way of receive huge amount of info from someone. Squad xml should be optional and not forced.

You say "well it gives unfair advantage". Well you receive that advantage by ooc means. Lets get some examples.

You kill someone and examine them and it says they are from CLF. Now you look at the player list and see that 10 other CLF members are in the server. Now you know you are possibly beign hunted by at least ten other players, and you are ready for them. In real life situation I would not be for sure carying something on me that could jeopardize my members operations by having physical thing that says who I belong to.

Example 2. You see a new guy who wants to tag along with your group, but is hesitated to type. You then finaly get him to type something and blam, you see the clf tag. You againg look at the layer list and see 10 other CLF members. You then tell the guy to bug of and enjoy that you were not surprised by "unfair advantage".

Example 3. You rob and kill CLF member and then run in to a firefight with them. Now you know approximately how many players they have. And you can act according to it. Run away, or fight? Your actions IC is greatly enchanced by ooc infortmation.

There is no "unfair advantage" by not wearing a clan tag. It is harsh reality. Bandits wont tell you "Hey I am from this big blood thirsty group, now can i tag along you guys?".

If something force a rule that forces players to use their character name in clan. Instead of learning that small 3 letter ooc tag, learn their name. ALot more imeersion is gained here.

You have my beans sir.

Lets think about it in a rp situation:

If you came across a group member who wanted to disclose his identity he could easily do that. Why should clan members be forced to do the same? it simply adds more risks (realistic ones) involved in the interaction between you and a random civ.

IMO there should be clan skins but not clan XML's.

Clan skins are useful in fights for both sides and reduce the amount of civ's being fire upon who are not involved. Also they are purely IC information that your character is receiving.

XML's on the other are purely OOC information.

We have to stop disallowing things and instead make RP a more positive initiative. That's just my views anyway.

/Rant

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If an organization member doesn't want to, in-character, disclose his/her affiliation then they shouldn't have to do so OOCly. End of discussion, it really is that simple.

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Guest Diviar

without XML I cant see your badge or the logo on your car. So you can have KOS on me but not the other way around?

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