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[Unofficial] Changing the lore back to modern day


RedSky

Should we wipe the lore and return to modern day?  

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  • Emerald

Alright, you all might wonder why @FaZe Mason's literally identical thread was closed and why we are restarting the poll from scratch. When the original Poll was created there was some heavy voting happening, the problem was that the vote wasn't being done with all information on hand.

While @FaZe Masonwas reaction to a post from @Hofer the story for a lorewipe and reset to modern day actually started in the shadows of some DM's and singular post from @Kerkkoh on the forums a few weeks back.

I would as I always do implore you to read through this thread quickly and make a well informed decision which you mull over for a little bit.

First of all. THIS IS NOT AN OFFICIAL STAFF THREAD, this suggestion comes from me and in extension @Kerkkoh

The topic of a lore wipe, especially this time around, is a bit of a sore point for the community; some of us, including myself, really enjoy the lore and the incredible freedom it gives to character stories and arcs as well as background stories.

However, on the flipside of the coin, many alike, including @Kerkkoh himself, cannot get immersed at all and find the future lore restricting rather than freeing.

Kerkkoh expressed this to me a few weeks back when he asked me in my DM's whether or not I thought the lore was stale. To his surprise, I answered that I thought the opposite and considered the current lore very important for the future of the roleplay of the community, I immediately handed him ten examples, and a civil discussion ensued over the reasoning of how and why.

 

We came to a few conclusions; the first was to agree to disagree, the second one was that we both believed it would be better to be wiped.
Regardless of my personal preference Kerkkoh made some points that were simply impossible to refute.

 

The first one:

His creative direction for the map struggles with the future lore.

While it might appear that the map was made for a futuristic apocalyptic lore, Kerkkoh didn't actually envision the map as a far-future reality; he agreed to do futuristic lore somewhere before the launch of the new map, certain elements and structures were quickly put in to support this. But the original agreement was to try it out, not necessarily commit to it.

This leaves Kerkkoh in an awkward spot, where his heart wants to develop the map as a more modern setting, but the lore prohibits him from doing so.

As a real-life Project Manager for many websites and applications for various events, I have a lot of experience with what creative direction means; the number of times I have removed front-end developers from projects cause they simply couldn't do it the way it is was needed is uncountable.

This does not mean they are bad at their job; it just means they can't make it work. Forcing them to do it anyway just brings poor results to the table and great uncomfort to the developer at hand.

You can't force an artist to make a particular art style if it is not his type of art.

 

Lack of assets for this type of lore

Kerkkoh ended up expressing that there is a lack of assets in the base game to facilitate this type of lore and, on top of that, a lack of performance in the engine to place enough ruble and vines/bushes/grass through concrete etc., to make it believable.

This means the further adding of extra POI's will feel like they are pristine; an excellent example of this is the recently added city nicknamed Sin-City.

It feels like the apocalypse never hit it, and that is an essential denominator of how hard the job is that Kerkkoh has been doing.

How do you make feel something broken if the model is pristine?
You cant do something apocalyptic if the engine doesn't support thousands of well place bushes and overgrown roots or includes it.

With no shade thrown at our 3D modellers, look how long it's taking us as a small (volunteer) development team to push out new models or assets to develop the map.

It slows the momentum of the map down significantly; it also slows down Kerkkoh's map development.

 

We need to accept that Kerkkoh is the only one that can develop Nyheim; we need to accept he struggles making it what the lore wants it to be.

The lore should follow Kerkkoh's creative direction for the map, not the other way around; that's just not going to work long-term.

 

Kerkkoh also expressed the following sentiment a little while back here:

Spoiler

https://www.dayzrp.com/forums/topic/108201-lore-is-good-but-immersion-lacks/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-1933790

"To be completely honest, I'm not a big fan of the dissonance between the lore and the actual gameplay elements. Sure, there are some elements of that terrain that seem somewhat futuristic, and far future apocalyptic, if you really stretch your imagination (like the huge concrete structures and stuff), but overall it doesn't really feel like we are so far into the future and it bothers me too. If we really were where we are at, we should have no modern weapons or very few, very little ammunition and very sparse clothing options, but that wouldn't be fun right? So here we are.

To address the "Make Nyheim look like a darker place", it's already a dark place. There are bodies hanging around, blood stains, execution walls, and there have been even tons of requests to remove these things. There can't be a fucked up dark map and a nice marshmallow happy world at the same time. But whatever. The streets are about as trashed as they can be without it being -20 fps everywhere, and with the new update some of the streets are now cleaner inside of the walls due to lore events where they were cleared for vehicle traffic.

I don't just don't think I can suspend my disbelief enough to make it feel like we are where we are at with the lore currently, and I'm not too happy about that. And no I don't want to play a chernarussian, but I'd like to play some modern day shit when we clearly are in a modern day setting despite how much the lore says we aren't."

 

So what is actually being suggested:

  • Wipe the lore, return it to the modern-day. No more or less than this.

 

 

FAQ (This will be expanded upon if questions are asked)

Q: When would the lore be wiped?

A: Not any time soon; if the lore were to be wiped, this would most likely be done with the next major map update, giving both ample time to Kerkkoh to prepare the shift in map narrative and the lore team to be more coordinated with the development team. So this suggestion is for the future but will give a better impression of what the launch of Nyheim should've been rather than what it was. TLDR: This won't be rushed.

 

Q: Is this really necessary?

A: A lot of us believe so; the destruction of creative narratives in storytelling is a massive shame; however, the momentum we can gain and the synergy between the atmosphere of the map and the lore can do us many more wonders

 

Q: If this vote doesn't go through, does that mean Kerkkoh stops developing Nyheim?

A: @Kerkkoh: "No, But I will be unhappy and disgruntled"

Q: Are we changing maps?

A: No this suggestion has nothing to do with that

Q: Is this suggestion because the lore is dumb/weird whatever?

A: No this has nothing to do with that, this suggestion is purely fueled by the standpoint that the map developer feels limited/blocked by developing the map with a standpoint from it being 50 years in the future, for reasons explained above.
 

Q: Is this suggestion to bring back players?

A: No.

 

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  • MVP

Stated it in the other thread that a 2021 lore would make me less likely to want to play DayZRP. But overall I don't care too much for it if the majority wants it. Nothing will change anyway, the RP will be exactly the same.

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  • Diamond
1 minute ago, AndreyQ said:

Stated it in the other thread that a 2021 lore would make me less likely to want to play DayZRP. But overall I don't care too much for it if the majority wants it. Nothing will change anyway, the RP will be exactly the same.

Yup. Same was about to write this word for word.

Edited by Nyx
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  • Legend

This is not to change the RP or the other several perceived problems on the server.

I do not play on the server. I do not play the game. I do not care about those things if they aren’t something that I can directly affect with dev efforts. I wish there was a magic wand to wave and fix those problems, but there aint, so i aint tryin to fix them with one.

This change is to make the dissonance between the lore and the map less of a problem. This is to make the map more believable. That’s all.

Well articulated points in this thread. Vote for future-lorexit, vote leave, vote yes.

goodnight america

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  • Diamond

I think going back to 2021 lore will cater to those who want it of course, will it bring back players? I dont know, everything brings back and pushes players and it feels those of us who have been around awhile go through stages of coming back fresh > burning out quickly.

Most people ingame I feel are having good RP right now and that's why they are playing, people wouldn't log on at all if something in game wasn't going on. I feel anyone playing now would still play if the lore went to 2021, though it may drive others away who are not playing. A chunk of the playerbase who is on right now doesn't really use the forums as much looking at newer roleplayers and just the casual roleplayers which is a shame because everyone's opinions matter, no one cares if you have 8000 hours roleplayers or 15. 

Personally as a member of the lore team, I will support whatever decision the community makes and continue to host and aid in events either way but on my own 2 cents I feel the lore now though maybe no "Ultra realistic 50 years on" still leaves room for alot of things. The creative outlooks people could take was really limitless, but with 2021 lore though more "Realistic" as we can relate everyday problems we faced in lockdown and such to the kind of issues a apocalypse would bring. Lore wipes are a funny thing, everyone takes it serious like scared of infected and all that serious for one month then it turns into the usual bullshit and since we are so new to the apocalypse people get bored then blame each other for it for lack of creativity and the staff team limiting things because its simply no pheasable you'd be a cannibal crip who is also a marine biologist.

If there was a lorewipe we'd have to bang down on cannibal groups and slowly phase out "Gang RP" and "Military RP" to lead us onto those later dates. I think a gradual change like all things is better than one big change and some people get left in the dark.

Again this is just me 2 cents and nothing official. 

Overall I'm neutral on what happens but ill still obliviously contribute to the pros and cons of both sides. I know it is cheesy to sit on the fence but im here for the community interests not my own when it comes to events and my role.

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  • Emerald

its a no from me. I like the current lore and the map. the lore is not well written (in my opinion) but it gets me immersed enough. I also like that the map is small because I dont have to hub rp or run around the map for hours to find somebody like in Chernarus

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  • Emerald

As much as it pains me to admit it, I think a change to a 'contemporary setting' would be better. 

Now, this isn't done because I don't like the current lore - I actually really like it. However, more information has come forward (thanks to @RedSky) that the map developer is struggling to modify the map to the lore, due to the complete lack of assets available, and the sheer complexity of doing so.

So i say a big yes to a change - only because it will help @Kerkkohand hopefully make things easier for him. Last thing we need is him struggling to adjust the map due to the lore. The map is an unique one for us, the least we can do as players is take the hit to established stories; (but new ones can be made) and give the developer a more realistic development of the map that won't be an absolute chore. 

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  • Diamond

I don’t really see it as a huge deal compared to other things but I’d prefer a modern time period instead of mad max in Norway.

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  • Emerald
6 minutes ago, Kontro said:

its a no from me. I like the current lore and the map. the lore is not well written (in my opinion) but it gets me immersed enough. I also like that the map is small because I dont have to hub rp or run around the map for hours to find somebody like in Chernarus

 

6 minutes ago, Kontro said:

its a no from me. I like the current lore and the map. the lore is not well written (in my opinion) but it gets me immersed enough. I also like that the map is small because I dont have to hub rp or run around the map for hours to find somebody like in Chernarus

We aren't switching maps ya goof - just adjusting the lore because the map developer is struggling, both creativity and with actual assets used to create a believable '70 years in the future' setting.

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  • MVP

I dont care much but im gonna say this,

The people who don't play will continue to not play and the people who do play might stop because you wipe their stories.

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  • Emerald

- 1
I do want to firstly say, that I want @Kerkkoh's job to be much easier.
At the same time though, this will change nothing other than brining back Nationalist groups who rob you for your accent. On top of that, that lore is over done. Every single server has it, and we did it for years. I genuinely feel like some people haven't given it their best shot at getting invested into their characters, or haven't had the best opportunities to get involved in the lore; If they were able to though I feel like their opinions would differ.

I also would just overall feel terrible for the lore/event team, knowing the amount of work & drive it takes to keep things going, and for it all to be stopped just like that would just suck. Now they're an amazing team and will do what they have to if we go back to the old lore. I just don't know if something like D Squad could even be remotely possible in modern day lore.

1 minute ago, Jackfish said:

I dont care much but im gonna say this,

The people who don't play will continue to not play and the people who do play might stop because you wipe their stories.

^^^^^^^^^ this a million times, I for one have never felt so invested in characters and stories until this lore. & That's because its unique, modern day is used by every single RP server. If I wanted that I would go elsewhere. 

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  • MVP

The ONLY reason I will support a lore wipe is if it makes things easier for Kerkkoh development wise seeing as he is the only one able to do anything with the map currently.

A wipe back to 2021 would allow us to diversify the loot table again as well, allowing for more of the modern weaponry to spawn (no .308 gaming though pls I beg you.)

 

Edit: Going to hold off on voting for now personally because at the end of the day I'm going to play no matter what.

Edited by Eagles
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  • Diamond
5 minutes ago, Jackfish said:

I dont care much but im gonna say this,

The people who don't play will continue to not play and the people who do play might stop because you wipe their stories.

If there’s a lore wipe I’ll at the very least hop on for a few days and try it.

Also please, for the love of god, add decent guns back. The loot table should never be more restricted than it is in the vanilla game and getting a FAL feels real good for my gamer brain. The new lore will get rid of any excuse to mess this up.

Edited by Squillium
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People who say going to a 2021 or any less time jumpy dates would bring back players are wrong, I would not mind going to a date like 2021 or not but if Kerkkoh is having a hard time then I think it would be for the best as it is not fair on him.

I won't lie this lore is very good and a nice change of pace for once.

Edited by Blakeh08
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  • Emerald
8 minutes ago, Novaa said:

-snip-

I feel this, my character Bismarck could've never been possible, this is my favourite lore by a mile.

However I in this case dont vote with my heart, I put this forward because a fellow developer told me, hey, I really struggle with this.

He gave me his arguments and I agreed, if I choose with my heart I say keep the current lore, if I vote with my brain and my understanding of things are when you make big projects, I will back @Kerkkoh and say it needs to change.

But you all have valid points, the lore is great, thats not being disputed, the problem is just, theres a dissonance between the Developer and the Lore and in my opinion thats atleast worth consideration.

Edit: This is also not a suggestion to bring back players.

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  • Diamond

Adding onto my previous statement if the Loremasters can create an interesting enough lore besides the same old that we've had. Id be on board for voting yes. Only reason I consider being ok with a lore wipe is because itll make it easier on the devs. 

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  • Event Master

Yes, but no. Hear me out.

We've done the start of the apocalypse several times before, and it feels just as out of place as 50 years in the future with all the bombed out buildings and rusting cars.

Further people react to the "new infection" as if it's commonplace already, with few ever acting as if killing infected is a moral quandary.

So what I would recommend is a sort of in between. Have the infection already have existed for a few years, but have it close enough to modern time to explain modern sensibilities. I'm thinking 2-3, years since the start.

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  • MVP
1 minute ago, Zanaan said:

Yes, but no. Hear me out.

We've done the start of the apocalypse several times before, and it feels just as out of place as 50 years in the future with all the bombed out buildings and rusting cars.

Further people react to the "new infection" as if it's commonplace already, with few ever acting as if killing infected is a moral quandary.

So what I would recommend is a sort of in between. Have the infection already have existed for a few years, but have it close enough to modern time to explain modern sensibilities. I'm thinking 2-3, years since the start.

Not a bad middle ground honestly. The outbreak is far enough along that there is the ability for more raider esque groups, maybe not to the extent of the current raiders but still feasible. Characters with existing mental problems from before the outbreak if still alive could have spiraled into the stereotypical bandit or hostile RPers and it would allow for the weapons we had removed from the server to be readded in some way shape or form. Same goes for heli crashes. 

 

I’d be down for this idea 100%

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  • Emerald
44 minutes ago, CutieTaff said:

We aren't switching maps ya goof - just adjusting the lore because the map developer is struggling, both creativity and with actual assets used to create a believable '70 years in the future' setting.

I know. I wanted to say another opinion of mine there

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14 minutes ago, Zanaan said:

Yes, but no. Hear me out.

We've done the start of the apocalypse several times before, and it feels just as out of place as 50 years in the future with all the bombed out buildings and rusting cars.

Further people react to the "new infection" as if it's commonplace already, with few ever acting as if killing infected is a moral quandary.

So what I would recommend is a sort of in between. Have the infection already have existed for a few years, but have it close enough to modern time to explain modern sensibilities. I'm thinking 2-3, years since the start.

I think a 2-3 year start would be better, never really thought about a smaller time skip.

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28 minutes ago, Zanaan said:

Yes, but no. Hear me out.

We've done the start of the apocalypse several times before, and it feels just as out of place as 50 years in the future with all the bombed out buildings and rusting cars.

Further people react to the "new infection" as if it's commonplace already, with few ever acting as if killing infected is a moral quandary.

So what I would recommend is a sort of in between. Have the infection already have existed for a few years, but have it close enough to modern time to explain modern sensibilities. I'm thinking 2-3, years since the start.

I would also 100% support this

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  • Diamond

I guess I’ll simply post my reply again? 
 

Personally I'm not entirely sure. I voted yes, however I would be fine if it goes either way.

 

I'm willing to give the current lore another shot, especially since I'm writing a character to work with it at the moment. I also respect those who are enjoying a change of pace with a lore that isn't stuck in (CURRENT YEAR). Also, with respect to current lore masters, I sure as shit wouldn't want to have to do ANOTHER massive lore rewrite so soon after the previous. Writers block does exist and it wouldn't be fair to the people who have to write it.

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind at all to return to 2021. I'm not sure how it would work with Nyheim, but I'd be interested to see it. The most fun I've had outside of hostile RP is when we were all adjusting to the fall of the world as characters, the early summer of last year was fun, I wouldn't mind to see it again. I also would like to be able to play a character I already have from time to time.

 

All that being said, if the lead dev for the map wants to lore wipe back to 2021, then I think it’s a good idea.

 

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  • Sapphire

If Kerkkoh finds himself lacking inspiration for the development of the map then sure but part of the problem to that decision is the fact the map is a community exclusive, artists should not be tied down so to speak when it comes to their vision. If the community wants it to go back to modern day then do it, but half the server is already RPing as if its modern day so its not like the RP is going to drastically change, all that is going to change is what is on the paper. That being said I did enjoy writing my old characters backstories more then I did the current ones.

Edited by Zero
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  • Titanium

I'm really on a 50/50 about this... I love the current lore and the current storylines going on! My last 2 characters were a blast to play because of all the shit with the cults and D Squad, which probably wouldn't have happen in a more modern day lore. 

But, just like @Kerkkohmaking a map that is 50 years in the future with the assets we currently have is very very hard... I've tried a lot in the past months to make it feel post apocalyptic and it's not really doable... And I'm nowhere near as good and experienced as Kerkkoh! 

So, on that note, I am all for the idea from @Zanaan. Make a lore wipe that starts slightly in the future like, 5-10 years later. This gives enough time for people to get used to the everyday struggles, gives time for the "younger" survivors to be raised in this post apocalyptic shitshow and people cans till do cults and shit like that. Without the whole problems of having to make a map that is supposed to me super worn and destroyed. 

I hate lore wipes because of the lost of characters and storylines. But, here, if the "New lore" can be slightly in the future, it would make a lot of things have a lot more sense.

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  • Sapphire

Small steps. 100% on board for this and I really, really really hope it is implemented. 

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