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Should Non-Staff Players be allowed to RP as PLIKT without staff under strict rules and specific conditions?


Should PLIKT Deployment rules be adjusted to allow Non-Staff Players to RP as PLIKT without staff being online? under strict rules and specific conditions?  

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i wanted to suggest we consider allowing Non-Staff PLIKT members to RP as PLIKT without staff being online. This means tweaking present PLIKT deployment rules.

 

The specific idea I propose is that Non-Staff can participate in "Off-Duty" PLIKT RP (Assuming the polling indicates a "YES" response from the community)

 

I will elaborate more on the strict rules & conditions proposed of "Off-Duty PLIKT RP" in a separate post, or in subsequent comments, but the basic idea is that non-staff PLIKT can use dayzrp.com/shop to spawn in non-combat uniforms and basic equipment such as radios and rations. From here, Non-Staff can wear these uniforms in specific areas and be allowed to RP as "Off-Duty" PLIKT members. There can be additional rules for this Off-Duty RP, which can be developed later on through community input & staff guidance.

Edited by Stellaboy
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  • Lore Master

No, they can and will ruin PLIKT.

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  • Administrator

PLIKT Is not an ordinary group, it is a special lore group which comes with different expectations and requirements. Under the circumstance that it was an ordinary lore faction, in the spirit of the factions we had last lore, this would not be an issue. But in order to be effective, PLIKT has been structured so that there will always be a decent amount of us online to do the patrols, rationing, etc. Individual PLIKT members getting online without the support of other members would be, with no disrespect to the members themselves, useless. 

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  • Game Master

No.
Simply put, there needs to be at least 2 people with tools on to play as PLIKT so those volunteering can store their characters clothes and items away until after the event.
Having PLIKT be on all the time is ideal, but realistically cannot happen due to Staff and Volunteers wanting to RP as their characters (Reasonably so).

Having members be on without staff, would also mean that there would be no chain of command.
Supports and Media = Corporal
Moderator = Sergeant
and so on.

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  • Moderator

No, but that's because the nature of PLIKT and how it conducts its operations.

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1 minute ago, Duplessis said:

PLIKT Is not an ordinary group, it is a special lore group which comes with different expectations and requirements. Under the circumstance that it was an ordinary lore faction, in the spirit of the factions we had last lore, this would not be an issue. But in order to be effective, PLIKT has been structured so that there will always be a decent amount of us online to do the patrols, rationing, etc. Individual PLIKT members getting online without the support of other members would be, with no disrespect to the members themselves, useless. 

I understand that individual non-staff would be useless, but the desire of individual Non-Staff to RP as PLIKT freely without staff is so great that Non-Staff are players are willing to be useless - they can only ever post in discord to radio for back up and support, since there would be restrictions on what a player can do during Off-Duty RP.

3 minutes ago, Cal said:

No.
Simply put, there needs to be at least 2 people with tools on to play as PLIKT so those volunteering can store their characters clothes and items away until after the event.
Having PLIKT be on all the time is ideal, but realistically cannot happen due to Staff and Volunteers wanting to RP as their characters (Reasonably so).

Having members be on without staff, would also mean that there would be no chain of command.
Supports and Media = Corporal
Moderator = Sergeant
and so on.

My proposal is to develop a system of Off-Duty non-staff PLIKT RP that is not dependent on staff tools. Players undertaking off duty PLIKT RP understand they do this at their own risk without the possibility of using lockers on their own. Additionally I suggest using Dayzrp.com/shop to spawn in the Off-Duty kit, which would really just a policy uniform and radio. I am not proposing that non-staff get to spawn military clothing, equipment, or weapons. The only weapon I'd suggest they be provided is a baton.

3 minutes ago, Woodzie said:

No, but that's because the nature of PLIKT and how it conducts its operations.

I don't think this is a valid perspective. It boils down to "That's not the status quo, so its not allowed"

 

The purpose of this post is to consider changing the status quo, not to support it by deferring to its current existence as the status quo.

 

There would be no point in making suggestions to change things if any suggestion can be dismissed by saying "That's not how it is now, therefore it should not change later."

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Problem is Plikt has no teeth. Without a consistent presence they are no threat and are an afterthought. Currently since half of Plikt is in Scrap Rats, they’re the actual plikt. They are totalitaria, controlling, and causing stress to everyone that doesnt obey their ridiculous rules…plikt areas are just militsry loot opportunities at this point, nobody that lives within plikt walls is guaranteed the safety the lore implies because those same plikt players are on their mains blowing through their walls while theyre asleep. So as a whole Plikt is poorly executed. You should take well trusted and committed non mod team members as an option so the lore for plikt has any real meaning.

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  • Lore Master

No, absolutely not. There's entirely too much that can go wrong both from these characters and from outside sources. It'd be a tangled mess of PLIKT lore from characters that would likely have otherwise been told they couldn't do x if a staff member was present. While I appreciate the idea, and wish it were practical, it is a firm no from me.

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  • Support

No, as noted above in the comment above, roleplay provided by PLITK requires a chain of command that is led by STAFF, with strict rules and a concise roleplay that requires a minimum number of players to occur, with the supervision of the Staff maintaining the spirit of fairplay on the whole case, leaving PLIKT as a lore faction aligned with the objective of the Administrators and LoreMasters.
 

Leaving it unattended is, in my personal opinion, a fine line for the train to derail and ruin the great work done by Staff + Volunteers today on the server as it can cause future problems, as the equipment used today by PLIKT is spawned by staff members with in-game tools, which would become a problem via RP when captured, not being able to develop any future roleplay because there is no reason, for example, for him not to deliver where PLITK weapons are. In a perfect environment, this idea would be awesome, but unfortunately people have things outside the game to do, and without staff supervision, the line is fine for PLIKT roleplay to become a bad thing.

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  • Game Master
1 minute ago, Stellaboy said:

My proposal is to develop a system of Off-Duty non-staff PLIKT RP that is not dependent on staff tools. Players undertaking off duty PLIKT RP understand they do this at their own risk without the possibility of using lockers on their own. Additionally I suggest using Dayzrp.com/shop to spawn in the Off-Duty kit, which would really just a policy uniform and radio. I am not proposing that non-staff get to spawn military clothing, equipment, or weapons. The only weapon I'd suggest they be provided is a baton.

Again.. No.
If you're RPing as PLIKT, you're going to have your service rifle if you are playing, and not just a baton.
Its not that we don't trust our volunteers to provide good RP and maintain a good presence, we do - its simply the fact that this is how it was planned, and how it was laid out to be.

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  • MVP

Absolutely not, PLIKT is a staff faction for a reason. Letting people roleplay as the staff faction without staff online running it would go wrong very very quickly. 

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  • Game Master
10 minutes ago, Gallowglass said:

Without a consistent presence they are no threat and are an afterthought. Currently since half of Plikt is in Scrap Rats, they’re the actual plikt. 

I'd love to know where you pull these numbers from cause I just had a quick nose in to the Plikt volunteer discord and there's about 57 volunteers and 10 of those are scrap rats, not even close to dominating the Plikt roster. You really need to holster this OOC beef you seem to have with Scrap Rats, its not good for the mind.

15 minutes ago, Stellaboy said:

My proposal is to develop a system of Off-Duty non-staff PLIKT RP that is not dependent on staff tools. Players undertaking off duty PLIKT RP understand they do this at their own risk without the possibility of using lockers on their own. Additionally I suggest using Dayzrp.com/shop to spawn in the Off-Duty kit, which would really just a policy uniform and radio. I am not proposing that non-staff get to spawn military clothing, equipment, or weapons. The only weapon I'd suggest they be provided is a baton.

That's pretty much just asking for PLIKT to get dumped on more than they already do. I agree PLIKT need a more consistent presence but given that its a volunteer group and that folk are always gonna wanna take a pop at it, going alone or even in groups of 5 or fewer is asking to be stomped.

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That’s the issue, Plikt has this awesome well focused lore but has no structure to support it. Nobody wants to play them and when they do get played its like 8 dudes walking around in a circle for 3 hours then logging out. Im all in support of plikt having game breaking power but maybe lock some of it behind ranks..its not like we dont have a huge list of oppressive police forces to take inspiration from, we just need people to want to play them instead of their other characters. Why dont we have a team of loremasters coordinating groups of players to represent the very Plikt they created? Why is there no commitment? Be unfair, be OP, make us scared, make building in their walls with a permit something that means you’ll be more safe than the chaos outside. Then you can roleplay officers coming to do inspections to keep people from hoarding, carrying contraband etc..thats basically the fixing raiding itch right there… I was just disappointed to discover this ghost threat being replaced with giant bandit groups again.

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14 minutes ago, Gallowglass said:

Problem is Plikt has no teeth. Without a consistent presence they are no threat and are an afterthought. Currently since half of Plikt is in Scrap Rats, they’re the actual plikt. They are totalitaria, controlling, and causing stress to everyone that doesnt obey their ridiculous rules…plikt areas are just militsry loot opportunities at this point, nobody that lives within plikt walls is guaranteed the safety the lore implies because those same plikt players are on their mains blowing through their walls while theyre asleep. So as a whole Plikt is poorly executed. You should take well trusted and committed non mod team members as an option so the lore for plikt has any real meaning.

Thank you for the feedback & perspective. I was not aware of this nuance regarding PLIKT's membership. Maybe lore wise PLIKT & Scrappers can strike an accord where Scrappers become a "Deputized" militia? Assuming all parties involved agree. Just spitballing here - not relevant to the topic, but again thanks for the info.

 

 

12 minutes ago, Cal said:

Again.. No.
If you're RPing as PLIKT, you're going to have your service rifle if you are playing, and not just a baton.
Its not that we don't trust our volunteers to provide good RP and maintain a good presence, we do - its simply the fact that this is how it was planned, and how it was laid out to be.

I understand that the present intended function of PLIKT is this martial-law militaristic RP, however there are many PLIKT members who are interested in RPing in non-combatant roles, such as Social Workers and Administrators. Presently all PLIKT members carry a service rifle, however there are some PLIKT members who would be more than happy to simply carry a pen and paper.



 

 

4 minutes ago, Elmo said:

That's pretty much just asking for PLIKT to get dumped on more than they already do. I agree PLIKT need a more consistent presence but given that its a volunteer group and that folk are always gonna wanna take a pop at it, going alone or even in groups of 5 or fewer is asking to be stomped.

I think this is a very valid criticism. As @Gallowglasssaid, PLIKT has no teeth, and this Off-Duty proposal is not intended or designed to give PLIKT anymore teeth so-to-speak. I acknowledge that Off-Duty RP would probably just result in low ranking PLIKT members being constantly attacked and held hostage.


 

 

10 minutes ago, Whitename said:

Absolutely not, PLIKT is a staff faction for a reason. Letting people roleplay as the staff faction without staff online running it would go wrong very very quickly. 

I don't disagree, allowing PLIKT RP without staff could go wrong very very quickly. I am under the impression that the right rules & regulations can help prevent this from going wrong quickly. For example, perhaps as a rule, Off-Duty PLIKT are not allowed to initiate on players ever - they will always have to "Call in" for back up by posting on discord, and they will essentially be useless unless staff come online and approve a deployment. But I also understand how this is highly counter-intuitive to PLIKT's designed intention as a powerful martial law entity, as opposed to a bunch of unarmed clerical bureaucrats who are "Off Duty" 

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  • Diamond

Why not allow PLIKT to function with only support and mods available then?  But only as an extension to a session started by staff with tools. 
 

Move support and mod and community member gear to an apartment building everyone has access to and block it off with multiple gates and doors throughout the apartment to allow for “secured” gear storage and then at the end of the night burn all the spawned in gear.  Or have a staff member with tools available to TP everyone when they’re done for the night.

 

I want the RP with PLIKT.  I want to feel the oppression and fear of this militaristic body of people described in the lore.  But I can’t because the staff members with tools get off PLIKT characters two hours before I’m off work every night.  It’s frustrating.  

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Gallowglass said:

That’s the issue, Plikt has this awesome well focused lore but has no structure to support it. Nobody wants to play them and when they do get played its like 8 dudes walking around in a circle for 3 hours then logging out. Im all in support of plikt having game breaking power but maybe lock some of it behind ranks..its not like we dont have a huge list of oppressive police forces to take inspiration from, we just need people to want to play them instead of their other characters. Why dont we have a team of loremasters coordinating groups of players to represent the very Plikt they created? Why is there no commitment? Be unfair, be OP, make us scared, make building in their walls with a permit something that means you’ll be more safe than the chaos outside. Then you can roleplay officers coming to do inspections to keep people from hoarding, carrying contraband etc..thats basically the fixing raiding itch right there… I was just disappointed to discover this ghost threat being replaced with giant bandit groups again.

I think this is a very valid point, and overall recurring criticism of PLIKT - they aren't strong enough. Conversely, you will find players of the opinion that PLIKT is too powerful. Overall I am in the camp that PLIKT's power projection and actions aren't consistent with community expectations. But you said one sentence which stands out to me tremendously - if I wasn't out of beanz then I would give you some. Your quote contains the entire sentiment of this poll in a single sentence:

"Be unfair, be OP [SIC] then you can roleplay officers coming to do inspections"


(IMO) This suggestion is receiving notable push back, I really I think it is because the timing is inappropriate. I am sure that if PLIKT's position was more established and less questionable, then this idea would be embraced. Presently it appears this suggestion is too early - PLIKT is in it's infancy, and we should focus on making the current state of PLIKT work instead of changing everything.

Also, one more thing, @Gallowglass- there was a non-staff PLIKT member who drew up a proposed flow chart for PLIKT's structure. I have attached a picture of this flow chart. This is not my original work, nor is it lore, canon, or endorsed by staff. 

PLIKTStructureProposal.png

Edited by Stellaboy
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  • Diamond

While I can see the train of thought here, I am going to echo the thoughts of many above and give a fat no to this. There are so many things we need to do to make sure it runs smoothly and it requires tools to store items, get people in the right places before we begin. Then as well as having the higher ups in staff, it helps make sure things run smoothly and we can be there to help fix anything that goes wrong ASAP. 

I would however like to address some of the concerns raised here by @Gallowglass, firstly it's not just "8 dudes walking around in a circle for 3 hours then logging out". We put a lot of effort and thought into the evenings plans when we are on, we have patrols yes because that is part of what PLIKT does however we also have medical stations set up for people to come get treatment from our medics, we have ration stations handing out food and water and then we have ID processing centres as well. So with respect I am inclined to disagree with your statement.

Secondly, "Why is there no commitment?", if you were on the other side of the PLIKT volunteer section you would see there is a crap ton of commitment and people put a lot of time into thinking up new ideas, making characters to come help out and add to the immersion but at the end of the day this is a roleplay community on a game and many people have IRL stuff to do rather than being able to spend hours being PLIKT every evening which is entirely understandable. From a staff side we organise as much as we can, when we can because there is a lot of prep that needs to be done beforehand. 

And thirdly, "Currently since half of Plikt is in Scrap Rats, they’re the actual plikt." The people behind the character of the scrap rats graciously volunteer their time to help out as PLIKT volunteers yes but that should be no different than anyone else volunteering from any other group. As when they are with PLIKT on their volunteer character, its completely seperate from their scrap rat character so I am unsure why this is or should ever be a problem.

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2 minutes ago, Stellaboy said:

I was not aware of this nuance regarding PLIKT's membership. Maybe lore wise PLIKT & Scrappers can strike an accord where Scrappers become a "Deputized" militia?

Just to clear up some confusion, Scrap Rats are not allies with the PLIKT. Our members will play as PLIKT on a different character to make sure they have enough members, plus staff members.

Moving on, I agree that PLIKT should have a bigger presence - but a lack of control from staff would make this group crumble. Volunteers are a big part of this group, however, the effectiveness of the group dwindles quickly without at least two people in command. So far I've seen PLIKT work from an outside perspective - and it's fine as it is.

 

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  • MVP

I hate lore factions, they never work.

With that being said having staff run the group with the help of volunteers is the best way to go about it. This is more complicated then hitting the play button, we are talking about spawned in gear that needs to be handled by the staff with tools at all times. If people would get on without staff they wouldn't even be able to have the kits spawn in so even from a technical standpoint it won't work.

PLIKT is quite active and hop on few times a week. In a perfect world the would always be on but for that you would need a massive staff team and people in said staff team that would actually want to lead the sessions.

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  • MVP

Nope.
It is a staff faction and it should stay this way. It needs strict ruling and responsibility taken on board for other peoples entertainment without drama.
I would hate to see a good concept taking a wrong way because someone "off duty" causes shit or cant handle stuff. Too high of a risk to ruin it for multiple people involved.

But hey if you want a government-like group I am sure you are able to come up with something lore-fitting. 👍

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  • Emerald

Read question wrong and accidentally voted yes. No, because PLIKT has special rules that need staff supervision.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Azu said:

Just to clear up some confusion, Scrap Rats are not allies with the PLIKT. Our members will play as PLIKT on a different character to make sure they have enough members, plus staff members.

Moving on, I agree that PLIKT should have a bigger presence - but a lack of control from staff would make this group crumble. Volunteers are a big part of this group, however, the effectiveness of the group dwindles quickly without at least two people in command. So far I've seen PLIKT work from an outside perspective - and it's fine as it is.

 

Thanks for the clarification and perspective. I can't speak to the efficacy of PLIKT since I have yet to RP with them once.

Another reason against commonly seen here is that PLIKT is a staff faction. This is a very critical factor to consider since ultimately the determine the terms of PLIKT RP.

 

Still, I think arguments for status quo because status quo are invalid, as they don't entertain the possibility of change.

Edited by Stellaboy
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ron said:

Nope.
It is a staff faction and it should stay this way. It needs strict ruling and responsibility taken on board for other peoples entertainment without drama.
I would hate to see a good concept taking a wrong way because someone "off duty" causes shit or cant handle stuff. Too high of a risk to ruin it for multiple people involved.

But hey if you want a government-like group I am sure you are able to come up with something lore-fitting. 👍

Thank you for the suggestion. After making this thread and receiving feedback, I feel like the only possibility for non-staff to have PLIKT RP when staff is offline would be through the creation of a player group that is a PLIKT-allied citizens militia. I think I will consider pursuing this route, as it could parallel and be PLIKT-like without the special rules & privileges of being a staff faction. And even if PLIKT lore-wise rejects this people’s militia, it does not invalidate its existence, if anything it becomes more of a vigilante group than anything else.

Edited by Stellaboy
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  • Emerald

No.

PLIKT needs to be alive for more then 3 weeks, and having it the way it is right now gives the volunteers and staff the tools, resources and encouragement to do these events for the players.

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  • Emerald
Posted (edited)

As much as I'd love to run around as a lone plikt soldier asking people for their identification.
No. This would become terrible for the server and I could imagine everybody would immediately complain due to the reasons everybody else has already stated.
I think the idea is fun but far too risky for the only lore group on the map and practically what the lore is revolved around. I don't really want to play without any lore factions again. I think that demotivates a lot of people. Overall, nice idea but too much bs would be caused making people tired of doing plikt and it'd fall apart.

😘

Edited by UniiLR
mmmmm
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