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Staff Advice on Rule 4.9 Questions & Loopholes


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4.9 If you are searched for items by other players you must give away all items that are available on your character - you may not make items "imaginary", hidden in body cavities or have concealed weapons.

I noticed the rule list is much more succinct than I remember in 2015 - good job! I do have a questions about Rule 4.9 -

1) Is this rule even relevant anymore? Can't players just search each other just by restricting/binding/handcuffing? Is this still used for RP purposes, such as PLIKT searching you for drugs or weapons? Or do players just generally initiate/restrain each other to actually search each other's inventories?

2) If "Yes" to 1), does the searching player have to "prompt" after *search* and specify items to be found? In other RP servers the searching player has to type a *Searches You* emote, followed by an OOC text prompt asking if items are found. I feel like there's just so many loop holes, they are written separately below for anyone to address. There's two parts to this question, 2A) Do searches require OOC prompts, and 2B) Do search items need to be specified at all?




Loopholes

If the answer to 2A and 2B is "Yes", then the following "Loopholes" apply. (these aren't so much loopholes as they are mistakes the Searcher can make that invalidate the search)

A - If both the emote AND prompt doesn't specify what is being searched for, then it isn't clear whether anything is found. This means the person being searched does not have to admit to anything being found. If someone just uses *Searches* emote, as opposed to *Searches for Drugsthere is a huge difference. The former it is unclear what is being searched for, regardless of IC/RP context. If the emote utilized doesn't specify what is being searched for then the following prompt must - ex - Someone can use *Searches* and follow-up with the OOC prompt "Are Drugs Found"?

B - If there are multiple generally known valued/contraband items, but the *search* emote or OOC "prompt" fail to identify these as the items being searched for, they will not be found regardless of RP context. For example, if PLIKT *Searches* you, and you have Drugs, and you know they are looking for Drugs, but their *Search* emote & OCC prompt doesn't mention Drugs at all, then it is simply not found in that search, just like in A above. They are welcome to try and conduct a second, more specific and thorough search.

C - ANY *Search* EMOTE NOT FOLLOWED UP BY AN OOC TEXT PROMPT IS AN INVALID SEARCH - Just because someone searched you doesn't mean they found anything, this is especially true if they fail to prompt OOC "Do I find anything? Y/N" - In fact this specific loophole is why I am writing this post. I got reported for using this loophole to successfully conceal a weapon (See "Why I'm Writing This"). The bottom line - it isn't enough that a player type *Searches* or even *Searches for X* - if the search emote isn't followed by an OCC prompt, then the whole search is invalid/incomplete/find nothing.

D - Any item not specified in a search is successfully concealed. All of these loopholes build on each other, I hope you see where I am going with this. I hope that players keep this mind as they interact & search each other. The basic premise is "You can't find what you aren't looking for." This almost contradicts rule 4.9 which states: "you may not [SIC] have concealed weapons" - through these loopholes demonstrated you can conceal weapons if the searcher fails to identify "concealed weapons" as the items being searched for.

E - "Concealed weapons" applies to all weapon. I feel like thus far my post is "flirting" with rule breaking by creating the possibility to conceal weapons by pointing out when/how searches fail. I want to caution players to still apply the words of the rules as literally as possible - if someone uses *Searches for Weapons* or "Do I find Weapons?" - don't split hairs and conceal any weapons of any kind, melee, fire arm, or otherwise - you're just risking a ban to hide an item. If someone uses *Searches for Guns* or "Do I find Guns?" then feel free to conceal your melee weapons, and vice versa.

F - "Concealed weapons" might not include explosives such as land mines, tear gas or grenades. Okay, this isn't a loophole, this is really more speculation, reaching, playing-with-words. If someone searches you, seizes your guns/knives, you could probably get away with keeping explosive devices since they technically aren't weapons, not in the conventional sense at least. I realize that I am splitting hairs here, but I am not trying to be facetious - I genuinely consider "explosive" to be separate from "weapons." I invite the staff, and anyone else reading, to correct me if "weapons" also includes "explosives" in regards to searches and rule 4.9



Why I'm Writing This

I noticed that presently rule 4.9 is pretty succinct, and I am unsure if this is because the requirement for an OOC prompt has been removed, or if this rule has fallen by the wayside thanks to technical game mechanics that allow searching players' inventories directly....I am seeking clarification on rule 4.9 - see again here:

4.9 If you are searched for items by other players you must give away all items that are available on your character

The rule is very succinct now - and it excludes an important bottom line question - does "searched for items" apply to specifically identified items to be searched for? Or does this apply broadly to all items a player is carrying? Again, leading to the question asked in 2A & 2B above. If the answer is "No" to 2A & 2B, then anytime you are initiated and someone types "Searches" you are to drop everything on the ground, since A - No follow up prompt is required, and B - No item needs to be specified, therefore all items are searched for and "must be given away"

 Im writing this post because I got reported for concealing weapons a LOOOONG time ago on DayZRP's Arma Server... .

TL:DR - Someone initiated on me, made me drop the guns on my back, then wrote out *Searches for weapons*, but didn't follow up with "Did I find one Y/N" . . . I did have another weapon, but they didn't follow through with the OOC prompt and ask if their search actually uncovered a weapon - meaning they did a bad search. They turned their back and I pulled out another gun - which the search failed to find. Shot him in the head and ran off. He ended up reporting me, and it was decided that he in fact failed to conduct a proper thorough search, and I was allowed to conceal my weapon from this search.

Thank you everyone for reading, I write this post specifically for staff. I am not seeking to assert or establish exceptions, I just want to ensure I correctly understand the present function & application of 4.9

Edited by Stellaboy
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  • Administrator

If you have your hands up and someone emotes that they are patting you down, it doesn't take much to know they're searching you for weapons and items. These items can consist of...

  • Radios
  • Weapons
  • RP drugs (Ex Comfort)
  • Ect...

If they show clear signs of wanting to RP search you and do so, you must answer them. If you're ever unsure what a person means just do "//Can you specify?" If you lie to a person ICly and the item they're looking for is found they have the grounds to execute you. If you lie OOCly when asked and it's found later by handcuffing or you 180ing and killing them that could be grounds for powergaming.

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