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HUBs - a returning perspective


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Hello, just now returning to DayzRP after a while away. I saw some posts griping about "hub" based RP, saw the map and noticed four major traders. I put two and two together - heres my thoughts:

1. For Context, when I played RP in the past the most popular unofficial areas were Stary Sobor, Kabanino, Vybor - they were popular because it was well known for hostile/slave RP. Still people kept coming here knowing there were high risks and low reward. This string of towns was formed by the community into an unofficial hub of hostile RP

2. For Context, when I played RP, the ZBOR was a major faction which established zelengorsk as a significant area under their control - an official town hub where there was intense martial law RP - random searches, regulating fire arms, suspicion of foreigners all defined the RP experience of this community-made hub.

3. Putting it together - my last take on DayZRP is from context 1 & 2. In Context #1 there wasn't really a single hub, but just a massive hostile blob in the middle of the map encompassing airfield and nearby towns. In Context #2 Zelengorsk ZBOR tried to have a sophisticated society with laws, commerce, and land ownership. Both had one thing in common - they were community made hubs.

4. Taking the past and looking forward - I am very new, and unaware of how hubs came about, or how they're created, but im certain they revolve around NPC traders - I have two simple proposals; (A) Allow groups with significant memberships (20+) to request a custom trader relevant to their group's lore - AND/OR - (B) Mobile traders - add 1 or 2 specialty traders who's location rotates and offers special deals not found elsewhere. Perhaps keep their location secret - dont publish on community maps - this will prompt a monthly hunt to find where the exotic trades have moved their operations. Perhaps consider removing safe zone rules on the mobile traders, allowing a subsequent struggle to control the emerging hub-area.

5. My goal of this post & this idea - I do not wish to disparage the present system, or HUB style RP. Rather, I wanted to draw on my DayZRP experience - from years ago when there were no official hubs and the only POIs were those the community created. Honestly my suggestion pretty much is to add more traders - allow big groups to add traders, and add Secretive moving traders, but Honestly those NPCs don't need to be merchants - they can be quest givers, or general suppliers - they may give valuable items to deliver to existing hubs, or sell goods at low bulk prices so players can re-sell at hubs.

 

Just my thoughts. Thank you for reading this wall of text. Sorry if these ideas have already been brought up - I am not meaning to beat a dead horse; this is my first day back on forums and I haven't read around much. I tried to leave out my opinions/assumptions - for example I assume that 50% of players want some sort of merchant/trader RP, and perhaps Secretive mobile supplier NPCs can help alot. Perhaps groups can control the current hubs, have a monopoly on trade, and try to crack down on player merchant competition? I dunno just thinking out loud here with ways to promote avenues of RP.

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  • Game Master
12 minutes ago, Stellaboy said:

5. My goal of this post & this idea - I do not wish to disparage the present system, or HUB style RP. Rather, I wanted to draw on my DayZRP experience - from years ago when there were no official hubs and the only POIs were those the community created. Honestly my suggestion pretty much is to add more traders - allow big groups to add traders, and add Secretive moving traders, but Honestly those NPCs don't need to be merchants - they can be quest givers, or general suppliers - they may give valuable items to deliver to existing hubs, or sell goods at low bulk prices so players can re-sell at hubs.

This part throws me off a little bit.
I dislike the idea of having NPC quest givers in a Role Play community that focuses on Player run stories.
To be completley honest, I dislike having NPCs at all in the game, as it takes away from the stories players could create if they ran a trading group or store - thankfully, one group is just that.
So for those reasons alone, I have to say no.
-1

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When I say quest, it's all going to be pure recurring courier work. Go to an NPC - "Here's the latest shipment of X, get it to merchant Y in 6 hours" - This concept is to facilitate travel & traffic which increases chance of RP. The goal isn't to add NPCs as a source of RP, but rather to promote actions that increase chances of RP encounters.

 

Perhaps when a shipment goes out a global notification is made? Other players know there is an active shipment being transported by a player. Perhaps an intercepted shipment can be sold to a different trader for higher value? The NPCs are only a source of an excuse/reward to travel. The idea is this increased travel leads to increased RP possibility. The value offered by NPCs is purely technical/instrumental, not the sort of intrinsic/lore/RP value that can only be achieved through player interactions.

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  • Game Master
1 minute ago, Stellaboy said:

-snip-

Well my friend, you've successfully changed my mind with that explanation.
I like the sounds of that - as long as its not abused and is only used 1-2 times a day (if that).
changing my opinion to +1

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Frankly all of this can be accomplished by a unique secret merchant that sells unique items - "Crate of Gun Parts" - they might have a limited stock and weigh A LOT. Perhaps only 20-50 are for sale in a month, and they resell to regular merchants for 5x-10x value? How does this sound? It isn't an explicit quest, but an opportunity for commerce through travel.

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  • Sapphire
3 minutes ago, Stellaboy said:

When I say quest, it's all going to be pure recurring courier work. Go to an NPC - "Here's the latest shipment of X, get it to merchant Y in 6 hours" - This concept is to facilitate travel & traffic which increases chance of RP. The goal isn't to add NPCs as a source of RP, but rather to promote actions that increase chances of RP encounters.

 

Perhaps when a shipment goes out a global notification is made? Other players know there is an active shipment being transported by a player. Perhaps an intercepted shipment can be sold to a different trader for higher value? The NPCs are only a source of an excuse/reward to travel. The idea is this increased travel leads to increased RP possibility. The value offered by NPCs is purely technical/instrumental, not the sort of intrinsic/lore/RP value that can only be achieved through player interactions.

I've actually seen a Quest mod on the workshop and privately suggested it to Roland. As far as I know, it's still being used on certain servers with no issue. I like the application of quests being used for tasks like these, but I also think It could help push lore and make it rewarding for players to take part in. If they want to make it interactive, I'm sure they could setup some voice over work either by using tools or attempting to create voicelines for the NPC. 

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Posted (edited)

Yea, there should be a limit presented either by the objects weight, or a fixed stock of objects, creating a system where players can only feasibly transport 1 shipment on foot. The shipments are sold on a first come first serve basis. Perhaps there can be a cap. Perhaps inventories are very low but restock every 6 hours. Alternatively inventories can be high but restock once a month on when merchants move. I dunno just spitballing here, but the possibilities are endless by adding 2 hidden NPCs that change locations monthly - one NPC trader is the supplier who sells expensive unique  delivery goods items to re-sell at hubs, the other NPC trader can perhaps sell truly unique items, or purchase delivery items from regular traders.

 

We can easily accomplish what im suggesting WITHOUT adding a single NPC - perhaps each of the four current traders have 1 unique export item, which you are free to buy and resell to other merchants. This alone incentivizes travel between existing hubs, accomplishing my primary goal of **"Promoting Travel Through Trade"**

Edited by Stellaboy
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Posted (edited)

For me, there is an important difference from what I propose, and "questing." A quest may be something like "Go repair this broadcast tower". Im suggesting we modify the existing game economy in a way that promotes travel. We can add new merchants to create new POIs. We can add heavy trade items and adjust buy/sell tables so there's clear items to export/import around the map.

 

Here's a simple example without adding new or custom NPCs/items. Perhaps the Eastern Trader sells AKMs at a price below how much the Civilian Trader buys AKMs for. A player can take it upon themselves to cram as many AKMs as possible into their backpack and haul ass to sell these guns and perhaps double their money.

A simple series of economic tweaks to pricing can create economic opportunity that can be fulfilled by players who have two things; 1) the money to invest in their goods, and 2) the time/ability to transport goods across the map for resale.

 

Id like to make it clear how my "Travel & Trade" idea is not married to NPCs and questing. I don't suggest we add more NPCs or a quest system - I propose that DayZRP traders provide economic opportunities that incentivize travel.

Frankly it doesn't need to be obvious to players that these economic opportunities exist - keen eyed players should be quick to assess pricing and trade potential themselves, making them more like traveling investors and less like fetch-questers. I'd be less welcoming of a system with a journal and explicit instructions, and would prefer trader pricing that encourages goods-traffic between traders.

Edited by Stellaboy
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  • MVP

None of this really matter as we are moving onto a smaller map soon. I would have loved to see the triangle return at some point, I just don't think the playerbase that once made it work is around anymore.

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  • Emerald

This might be slightly off topic, but I'll say it anyways. I know of other servers that have group-specific traders. Basically traders that only sell group-specific items. 

Let's say group A has a trader with an item that group B needs. Instead of driving to the nearest NPC to buy it without any RP, group B now needs to go and interact with group A in order to get what they want.

What if A doesn't want to give B what they want? You just opened a great number of different storylines to develop, instead of the normal "Hey how you doing?" or just complete silence that normally happens at traders.

Now I understand that being forced to RP with another group isn't exactly what everyone might want or enjoy, but overall I think a system like this would do much more good than harm.

I personally use the traders quite a lot, but still think that we would be better off if they were removed. Even with this mind set, I did really enjoy the instances what the group-specific traders brought to the other server and think that it could be a good way to encourage RP between all groups. Now what I think these group specific items should be... no clue. Just throwing an idea out there

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  • Diamond

Hubs don’t work, simple concept. They take apocalyptic RP and turn it into second life. They shouldn’t, but that’s how it’s come off most of the time, and when someone dares attack a settlement everyone cries about it.

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  • Diamond
19 minutes ago, OwOgleSimp said:

I find it funny how people can sit here and say hubs don't work but then those same people will complain about not being able to find any RP when they've killed off a hub or forced them from their location.

Yeah I’m not complaining about that that, never did. Spreading people out is good for the server, otherwise you get a situation like soup kitchen which was a major factor in people switching from Livonia back to Chernarus. The worst and most boring RP I’ve had on the server was when there was a big hub a majority of people flocked to, whether it be soup kitchen or GM.

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  • MVP
5 minutes ago, Squillium said:

Yeah I’m not complaining about that that, never did. Spreading people out is good for the server, otherwise you get a situation like soup kitchen which was a major factor in people switching from Livonia back to Chernarus. The worst and most boring RP I’ve had on the server was when there was a big hub a majority of people flocked to, whether it be soup kitchen or GM.

I don't know what to tell you dog, if the RP you get from hubs is so horrible stop going to them. Seems like a simple solution for the problem you're having. My experience has been exactly the opposite hence why I enjoy seeing them around and will continue to go to them and help them build their spot up. If you enjoy fiddle fucking around looking for people outside of the hubs have at it.

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  • MVP

I think hubs are cool. Don't see the problem with people complaining about the RP at hubs. I guess the solution is to maybe help create better RP then?

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  • Emerald

@Stellaboyunfortunately, hubs became a thing long before traders. Sometimes you get decent rp at a hub but mostly it’s just the same old people logging in to the hub to rp with their own clique. Often you’ll find it to be borderline OOC or incredibly immersion breaking, it’s just how it’s been. 
 

It ain’t the same community as it was back then, some things changed for the better and some definitely for the worse. I hate to agree with this @Squilliumguy but most hubs are also often the first to cry on the forums if their rp, mentioned above, is interrupted. I’ve only ever seen one decent hub 

I do like your idea though although I’m not sure how possible it would be. Hopefully the new map will make this idea obsolete and rp can become more organic and spontaneous again 

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  • Sapphire

I think Hubs are fine, it's just some of the RP is very lackluster. I want to see Merchants selling goods off to people, people getting into petty fights, patrols, things that can make a camp lively. But all I ever see is people sit behind a campfire and ask for someone's life story (in which case, it's edgy or depressing af). I'm going to be quite honest, just because it's set in a zombie apocalypse doesn't mean you have to write a depressing or edgy character. I remember when Olsha was considered an RP Hub, and for the most part I got some decent roleplay. We gambled, laughed, cooked food, and some had petty squabbles. 

However, I think there needs to be a mentality change. I 100% agree with this statement below. But I also think there needs to be a mentality change for those who run hubs. RP Hubs tend to disappear because of constant raids/attacks. Just RP it out, hire some security or make a deal with the group responsible. At the end of the day, it's just gear you can easily get back within a couple hours of looting.

Quote

"I find it funny how people can sit here and say hubs don't work but then those same people will complain about not being able to find any RP when they've killed off a hub or forced them from their location." @OwOgleSimp

 

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  • Game Master

I don't mind nipping by hubs for business, its the people who treat them like a social outlet or attack them cause they're bored that are the problems, use hubs for their intended purpose: ala treat a pub like a pub, a medical camp like a medical camp and a quarantine zone like a quarantine zone.

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21 minutes ago, Elmo Cringe said:

I don't mind nipping by hubs for business, its the people who treat them like a social outlet or attack them cause they're bored that are the problems, use hubs for their intended purpose: ala treat a pub like a pub, a medical camp like a medical camp and a quarantine zone like a quarantine zone.

This. This right here. 

I personally don't mind hubs, as long as the RP there is of a decent quality that actually relates to the area/dynamic of the hub. 

However, some players will take the piss, either with troll RP on alts that take the piss or just going around antagonising others just for a meme. Or deliberately attacking a hub because its a soft target and they run less risk of getting their cheeks clapped. Most of the time I find the 'Cries of hub RPers' justified if the reason for the attack is incredibly flimsy or just pulled out their arse. 

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  • Community Manager
On 6/7/2021 at 7:13 PM, Stellaboy said:

Yea im curious about what this new map will be like. Hopefully free to play and not laggy. Do you know if the new map will have merchants.

It is going to be free as it is DayZRP's own map developed in-house by @Kerkkoh. Traders will be present on the new map.

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  • Legend
33 minutes ago, Elmo Cringe said:

I don't mind nipping by hubs for business, its the people who treat them like a social outlet or attack them cause they're bored that are the problems, use hubs for their intended purpose: ala treat a pub like a pub, a medical camp like a medical camp and a quarantine zone like a quarantine zone.

@Elmo Cringeis like an oracle i swear.

Hubs become boring because people don't leave them / don't use them for their intended purpose. People not leaving the hubs means those roaming / looking for dynamic encounters cannot find any which turns into people attacking settlements out of boredom more frequently. Both are issues and I'm not blaming either more than the other. 

If hubs became somewhere people visited rather than resided we'd likely see fewer compaints from all sides of the spectrum.

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  • Emerald
4 hours ago, Squillium said:

Hubs don’t work, simple concept. They take apocalyptic RP and turn it into second life. They shouldn’t, but that’s how it’s come off most of the time, and when someone dares attack a settlement everyone cries about it.

- USER WAS WARNED FOR A PART OF THIS POST -

f hubs don't work than its basically people roaming the map endlessly and then maybe encountering a random whitename outta nowhere. Hubs draw people together and help new players learn to roleplay which is why sometimes the RP can be kinda boohoo. Hubs help people learn to interact with others rather than seeing a group of like 3 people and then getting scared and running away. As for people crying about hubs being attacked, most of the time, I see it when a new group is made is the first thing they do is attack a hub with the bare minimum RP done simply because they do not like hubs.\

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19 minutes ago, Para Cringe said:

@Elmo Cringeis like an oracle i swear.

Hubs become boring because people don't leave them / don't use them for their intended purpose. People not leaving the hubs means those roaming / looking for dynamic encounters cannot find any which turns into people attacking settlements out of boredom more frequently. Both are issues and I'm not blaming either more than the other. 

If hubs became somewhere people visited rather than resided we'd likely see fewer compaints from all sides of the spectrum.

i dont see a problem with people no leaving, and im sure people do leave the hubs, your just not around to see it. The server doesn't have a consistent player base online at all times, and there are times where there are 4 people on, other times 50 plus people, of course the map that it is on now is big, but there are certain places you can go and always find people, you need to know how to look. This server was ment for enjoyment and roleplaying, if people want to roleplay being a survivor at a camp (because thats normal for a apocalyptic world) then they can, if people wanna roam they can, we are all here to have fun and play the way we want. If we were fored to all play a certain way this server wouldnt have been around this long

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