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Being Objective About the Rules


Squillium

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  • Diamond
Posted (edited)

Right, please read what I have to say objectively as I've put a lot of thought into this and want an honest discussion.

I've spent a lot of time recently playing DayZ on non-RP servers for the first time in about 4 years. While I love just pub-stomping it's given me some good perspective on what your average DayZ player wants, and what changes DayZRP could make to its ruleset that would keep current members happy but legitimately draw in new people that have never played here or any RP community for that matter. A new friend group I've talked to has been really dismissive of coming to an RP server, and I think their reasoning is the same reason a lot of people prefer not to. They come to a site (or discord in some lazier communities cases), see a dissertation of rules and just think "nah can't be bothered". To be completely fair this is MUCH worse on other popular roleplay communities that I won't name here, but they have a dedicated player base for various reasons that aren't really important in the context of what I'm trying to say. What is important though is trying to exist with our current ruleset, or god forbid adding more niche rules, is more detrimental than helpful in the current climate of roleplay communities in DayZ.

From my understanding when DayZRP was made it was more of a "No-KOS" server than a full fledged RP server that everyone took very seriously, and when I joined in 2016 it seemed to be much less "serious roleplay" and more groups attacking each other on a regular basis with initiations and hostilities not requiring you to jump through hoops to keep everyone happy. I think genuinely going through the rules and whittling them down to what's absolutely necessary will be the best thing for this community, especially with the new map coming out. I won't go through the entire rule set here but I will give an example with some hostiles rules. You could legitimately replace rules 4.1 through 4.4 with the following text:

Any and all hostilities must begin with an initiation. You may kill someone only in the following situations:

  • They have initiated on you or someone you are currently allied with in game
  • You or an ally has initiated on someone and they have not complied to demands
  • These kill rights last for 2 hours

Just condensed 531 words into 54. There's no way I'm going to not get shit for basically taking some of the RP-centric specifics in the rules and suggesting to get rid of them, but other communities' do a hyper-RP focused approach objectively better than us based on their current populations.

Also, for the love of god, do NOT think I want DayZRP to be some dumpster fire where everyone's allowed to meme around in game. In fact the one thing I wouldn't really change is BadRP, trolling, or even the new Twitch TOS rules because honestly they're fine as is. Just don't hinder PVP nearly as much as it currently is. Let people fight and don't be so protective over one group losing because that's the game, and there's already too many DayZ roleplay server where people are babied to the point where there's too much competition for that kind of experience. There is no middle ground between non-whitelisted servers that just have "RP" in the name with no rules and the super serious servers where everyone seems to take acting classes before they even join and every single hostile action is nitpicked to death. DayZRP could be that middle ground if we just revert our rules to what they were in the past.

TLDR; Make DayZRP a less restrictive server than what it currently is because other more popular servers have much more stringent rules and trying to copy them won't bring people here.

Edited by Squillium
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  • Owner

I completely agree, the rules should be simple and only cover the most important aspects. This was the reason we rewrote the rules and created new more friendly whitelist system back in 2018 (announcement), before that the rule page was about 3x as long as it is now. It's not possible to measure if the short rules and new whitelist system have helped to attract new players, but I do think it helped a little.

Anyways, we always add rules to mitigate an issue on the server and some of those rules exist for a very good reason and combining them into 54 words like you suggested would open it back to abuse. Examples:

Rule 4.1 requires that initiations are clear and understandable, prevents ambiguous situation where someone says "I'm gonna rob you, haha" jokingly and then kills people for non-compliance when they don't treat it as an initiation. Without it people will initiate on you from behind walls or inside buildings without you being able to defend yourself, a tactic that was previously used extensively to gain an advantage over others.

Rule 4.2 is there to prevent monkey PvP squads from running around unregistered in a group and initiating on everything that moves. While this is no doubt a lot of fun for them to initiate on a bunch of easy targets like role players who aren't as organized or good at PvP, a lot of community members quit the game and never came back because of this PvP focus. I'd rather keep existing members than hope to attract others who might be interested in joining the server without this rule.

Rule 4.3 is needed because otherwise people will drop each other at the second they get kill rights. This promotes role play rather than rule play and is absolutely necessary from my perspective.

Rule 4.4 is just a clarification rule because people complained about giving good hostile RP and salty hostages who got robbed of their gear not giving any RP back. While not strictly needed, I think it serves it's purpose showing that RP is a two way street.

Those rules are not hyper-RP at all and don't require some inhuman RP performances, acting or dedication from players, mostly to just focus on RP and play fair. They're not even superficial rules that we have there for "just in case" or that it "might" be abused otherwise, those are rules to prevent abuse that we have actually seen happen extensively on the server in the past and they serve a real tangible purpose. So no, I don't think your idea of reducing those rules to just "you have kill rights, kill" will help the server at all 🙂 

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  • Diamond
22 minutes ago, Roland said:

So no, I don't think your idea of reducing those rules to just "you have kill rights, kill" will help the server at all 🙂 

Hey man, just trying to help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I do believe the rules are inflated to a point where you might need to do something similar as the trimming down in 2018. It’s not that ridiculous yet but it just feels like another cycle of “add rules when people bitch about stuff until there’s too many”.

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  • Head Admin
9 minutes ago, Squillium said:

it just feels like another cycle of “add rules when people bitch about stuff until there’s too many”.

That's just how it works over time. With less and simpler rules people find gray areas, abuse them until a new rule is added/old rule is reworded to cover it.

Over time it has to expand, because people can't use common sense and not abuse gray areas that arise if the rules are shorter and more vague.

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Posted (edited)

I respect your opinion but this is a huge -1 from me a lot of other servers actually have heavy rules on initiation and robbing people even to the point where if you rob someone you HAVE to leave them with food, water and a weapon so i'd say the rules are pretty simple and vague enough that cases can be handled situation by situation if they ruleplay over roleplay. That's just me. 

Edited by AleksObrien
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  • Emerald
Posted (edited)

I couldn't agree more.

Even having played here for years without getting banned in game, whenever I come back I keep the rule page accessible to find the 400 words that define what potential rule break may occur.

 

Even if it isn't considered possible to shorten it, they could be arranged easier and rules could be combined for sure.

Edited by Dan
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  • Diamond

This could work. What i'm concerned about are the parties who cause rules to be added due to them being toed along and essentially, constantly abusing grey-zones and the like.

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  • Sapphire

It could work in theory, but in time I think we would see a ton of people using loopholes to get one up on other players.  I used to play in a community that had a VERY strict loophole system, where you get permabanned for using a loophole in the rules.  Honestly, its a little extreme but we didn't have anyone who used loopholes.  It would 100% be nice to reduce the amount of rules into a shorter section, but the amount there is to stop people from using the loopholes that others have used before.

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  • Titanium

I agree that while the amount of rules has substantially increased since the early days of the server, I can certainly see why they were implemented.

you make a set of rules to begin with and all is well and good until someone finds a way to step over the intended line without technically breaking a rule, so then you have to address that. Rinse and repeat.

 

but trust me, I’m all there when I say the rules page can be overwhelming to new and prospective players and I truly wish it could be condensed down. It just seems like it could be a very daunting task at a glance. 
 

if only we could say “RP > Ruleplay” and members would 100% successfully integrate that mindset. Sadly, that’s as much of a fantasy as a world where I can take down an infected with a sharp stick. 

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  • Sapphire

Whilst I understand the point here and would have said yes to this a few years ago, I would say no now. 

 

Being here since 2013, the rules have gone from pretty much small and minimul to very long and really unneeded and now to pretty short and understandable, having rules that just say "Dont KOS" wouldn't provide much detail there are many people within this community that would gladly read the rules and bend them and make themselves immune to some of the rules and twist them. 

 

That being said, the rules right now are good and decent as they are.. They don't really need much change other then the Twitch Guidelines 

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