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Should traders and roubles be removed/changed?


Earl

Should traders and roubles be removed/changed?  

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  • Moderator
Posted (edited)

In my opinion traders and the ingame currency known as roubles should be completely removed from the server, or at least changed. I have my reason and explanation behind this.

Does it make sense?

No, it does not really make sense to have such a currency in an apocalypse. If there would ever be such a thing in real life the economy would fall and it would have no value. Some paper currency would not keep people alive. The new currency would most likely be tools and needed proviants to keep people alive. 

 

My opinion on why traders should be removed or changed and what harm the traders cause.

First of all, we were fine before the traders were added. The main reasoning behind wanting traders removed, are not mainly because of the traders, but it is the currency being used in the trading. I have an example, you travel and you loot most military places and you only bring loot which is valuable to traders. You sell it for roubles, you put that money back into the bank. And some people loot for days to keep their account stacked. In the short run it seems cool, but in the long run people will have high amounts of money in their accounts which give them a reason to not go around the map looting anymore. It brings less chance to RP with a group that is not inside their base, because instead they would be out looking for needed supplies. The issue now is that people go grab their money and buy new shit. The value of their loot/gear is lower than it used to be, because they can just go and buy it all new. 

I feel like there is a cloud of people talking shit to people because they visit NWAF once too often to find some sick gear. But in the long run that will bring more RP to the table then just going back and forth from the trader and the ATM. It is not bad to loot, but there is a difference between looting because it will bring RP then looting just to stash it somewhere.

 

Please explain why voted on what you voted 😄 

Edited by Earl
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  • Lore Master

Remove the ATMs, they dont make any sense.

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  • Emerald

While I think the current currency has a right to exist I don't see how ATM's are still a thing. Remove them. Make people store their money on them or in bases.

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  • Emerald

I'd rather have an in game event for the removal of traders maybe, but honestly i have a hard disliking to traders and the currency that comes with it. people literally go around in a car to every military base, collect everything they can, mass sell all the items, store the money in their bank and then either log off or continue playing.. it genuinely adds nothing to the server apart from a cheap way to buy the gear you want.

IMO The server was better without the traders and the roubles, makes no sense for roubles to be 'valuable' in a zombie apocalypse. 

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  • MVP

I’m personally not a fan of the breadth of items sold at the trader. When we added them we didn’t want people to rely on them and now we have people doing regular trader runs, mostly due to suggestions to “add X Y Z to the trader”. I think in the future I could see perhaps removing the ATM and a lot of the items the trader sells.

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  • Sapphire
Posted (edited)

I voted to remove the atm, as i feel like if they removed rubles, the economy would tank.  But what I would like is for military weapons/plate carriers to be removed from the traders.  All I hear is *if I die, ill just go to the atm, remove some rubles and rebuy my full kitted m4, and plate carrier.*

I'm 100% for keeping survival items in it, as well as ammo.  Making it so that you can't sell military items, weapons or clothing.  You can easily make rubles by selling stuff to the civilian trader, trading with others in game or maybe adding another way to make rubles.  IE: fishing trader, vehicle trader(transporters) like an npc in their prefab that could buy cars that they don't want to sell to players, or are almost broken.   Hunting traders that will buy hides, meat, bones etc off you.

Edited by Ghosty
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In my opinion, traders could stick around and I don't really see much of a problem with the currency, albeit with some changes. The idea of traders seem to fit well in the post-apocalypse, but I do feel like these traders wouldn't be stockpiled with infinite amounts of military grade weapons, building equipment, and other such items. And the ATMs seem stupid to have around. We could probably get rid some of the things they sell (Rare weapons, NBC stuff, etc.) Also we should remove ATMs because they just don't make sense to have.

In order to combat people stockpiling stuff to sell to the trader for lots of money, we could remove the selling of certain items that sell for alot.

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  • Moderator

Looks at ATM balance and cries inside
 

I don’t think I’ve used the trader or the atm maybe a handful time. 
 

it doesn’t make sense to have one. 

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  • Sapphire

I never find myself using the ATM or trader, whenever I die I usually just head to NW airfield and find what I need. I will say its handy knowing people who can buy me plate carriers whenever I get unlucky and can't find one but I guess now that I think about it that's kind of dumb since part of the game is trying to find those rare items. 

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  • Diamond

A change in currency would be nice. Maybe make bullets be the new currency like in the Metro universe. 

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I enjoy trading between all the traders in the map whilst the server population is low. Gets me something to do and sometimes I meet the odd person while I am about. I kinda want the risk of losing all that money I've gained because the more money you gain and store at the ATM, the less it feels like I need to loot and/or care about consequences in hostile situations as I could just always loot or rebuy everything I need.

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I think the traders and their inventory should be maintained, but the ATM can be removed. The ATM makes very little sense in lore as it would rely on a system of electronic banking behind it which is just a no. Plus it would give death and robbery a little more of a sting / value. But not disastrously so.  But roubles make some sense, currency has value as long as people are willing to believe it has value. Bullets and so forth make some sense but you would have to give them some sort of credit value, which may be difficult to implement and shake out to being the same thing as money in the end, no real difference mechanically. 

But I must voice strong opposition to the idea of eradicating the traders or significantly limiting their inventory. Their presence is a useful pressure release valve in the robbery / murder system. If you remove them one of the 3 major ways of attaining desirable items (scavenge, rob, trade) will be gone. People will turn more to robbery to attain the rare item and hoarding of those items will increase as people fear their scarcity.  As robbery increases so to does the fear of robbery and people will be much less willing to risk RP with strangers or chance encounters, resulting in an overall RP decline and an isolating of the various groups plus an increase in general lack of trust. Not only will RP decline due to increased fear / cost of getting robbed. But also, it will take much longer to get back up to a geared state, resulting in more time spent looting and robbing and less time spent on other RP. This will have a disproportionate impact on those not in groups as they don't have a team to re-gear them or a collective piggybank to draw on. Finally the idea that people can recover from getting robbed does put a little salve on the idea of getting robbed and, I would wager, happier players. People will be less likely to be upset if they can recover in two days (assuming low server pop and playing for a good chunk of the day) rather than a week or two, and we are here to have fun after all. 

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  • Sapphire

I think they should remove both, this would incentivize people to stop hoarding items and sell them for thousands, and having and ATM in the game makes no sense with the state the world is in. I personally wouldn't have any problem with them removing both 

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  • Emerald

ATMs can go, as others have said they don't make sense and hoarding money is just the same as hoarding loot with a different mask. I'm more neutral on the traders, don't mind if they stay or go. 

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Labor generates wealth and commodities are wealth.
Scrip currency would be valueless in a zombie apocalypse because the institutions that guarantee scrip value are gone or at the very least, severely limited in power and scope.
I'd probably be wiping my @$$ with fiat currency notes, or using them as material to start fires, and melting down coins, (not precious metal coins), to use in making items of real, tangible value.

The only value scrip has, even today, honestly, is its relative weightlessness compared to gold/silver and other goods.  You can carry a lot of bank notes in a briefcase, but no where near as much real wealth in the same space.  Now consider a world where banks as we know and loathe them, including central banks, are gone, and where there is no central authority to maintain the value of scrip currency by fiat.

Yeah, the money would be worthless and we would be fools to exchange labor or tangible goods for it.

Among the most valuable of possessions in a grid-down collapse would be fixed fortifications and the personnel and weaponry to defend them.

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  • Diamond

I didn’t want traders when they came in, I’ve grown to tolerate them.  It’s nice to know we can replace something as simple as glass bottles with relative ease because of the traders.  And being able to get ammo and such.  And I’ve also noticed a lack of 5-second robberies because people aren’t worried about their kits.  Whether it’s a military weapon or not.
 

As for the ATM, don’t really care either way.  It was put in after electricity went out so it’s existence has been handwaved for the most part because there’s not really anything you can do as a player—it exists, it functions.  Whatever.  It *is* nice that the money persists through server wipes, which is what it was put in for.  But I’d dial back the max balance.  I liked it when it was 10k max.  Bring that back, if we’re keeping it.

 

Id like it better if people would utilize the traders as a restocked for player traders more.  Your gun shop out of ammo?  Go restock.

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      I'm happily voting for the removal of both the ATM and the Traders. Neither one makes a whole lot of sense on a server that otherwise praises itself on immersion, realism, and story driven RP. This is certainly not true of everyone but I've found that the trader grind simply lowers the quality of the RP whether people realize it or not. The player carrying two backpacks full of gear to the Eastern trader in hopes of make a couple grand is a lot less likely to go introduce themselves to someone they spot on the street, potentially trading a fun RP experience for Schrute Bucks. 
      This is the only server that I've played on where I've such an abysmal representation from players RP'ing as traders. For starters, there is no incentive for anyone to preform this role because they'd essentially have to be providing gear for substantially less than the AI Traders but with ALL of the risk of thieves raiding their storerooms. Being able to become a trader in game is actually a really rewarding RP storyline to follow because it's scalable to whatever level matches your playstyle. From a single shop owner to full fledged multi-location trader conglomeration, there should be paths forward based on your preference. 
      Being able to trade with other players has been one of the highlights from my time on other RP servers as well. There are plenty of ways of implementing something like this too, but the easiest is just having an IC Trading channel added to the discord that players can use to get in contact with each other. If you wanted to go crazy you could even add a safe zone for people to use in order to facilitate trades, potentially moving AI traders to this area with dramatically reduced stores. I think this idea has been pitched before but for some reason beyond me the community seems to really dislike it. 
      None of the above even goes into the borderline abuse that I've seen at the traders. For example, how many large groups with ridiculous amounts of cash in the bank were able to rebuild to their pre-wipe status in a matter of hours because they could simply buy the required tools and materials? Doesn't that completely negate the intention behind lowering the spawn rate of things like nails in order to re-create realistic scarcity and to avoid Super FOB construction? I'd also love to hear a legitimate justification for why your money in the ATM should be the only thing in DayzRP to survive server wipes. 

Anyway, I'm thrilled this is be discussed and hope we can see some changes in the near future. 

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I'm more for a trade and barter system as opposed to the current economy & traders situation. If I recall correctly, there was lore backing the use of currency still, but it still seems unrealistic and silly; much like the ATMs. I voted for its removal, as I believe that it would open up opportunities for roleplay. Additionally, I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of adjustment to the loot tables. I've found that in my time playing, attempting to acquire a specific item such as a car radiator or container item is often easier done through the trader than it is through looting.

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  • Diamond

There is no official currency system IG. Rubles is not forced upon anyone and can simply be ignored. You are already free to setup another currency using bullets, same with the traders, they're not forced upon anyone and they don't take anything away from the server or the Roleplay. Having traders on the server is something I never wanted here and I remember a long time ago people saying that it would never be a thing, however here we are, and honestly its only added to the server IMO. Anyone who says that they take away from the RP are either blind to what they add or just want them gone cause they don't want them here.

The trader mod requires rubles and thats the only reason rubles exists on the server. You can use this to your advantage if you wish, use the roubles or rob those using the roubles. The idea that removing Traders and Rubles would increase roleplay in a realistic way because it would force people to chat with each other more which was mentioned above is silly, if this was a real situation you wouldn't go about causually talking to people you meet like we do IG.

Some will say I am biased because I am in the Transporters and our whole group is built around currency/trade, however we could use any item on the server as a currency, we are not forced into using rubles and if we wanted to change we could, and we don't always use rubles. People are free to buy our services using other items, the only reason we are using rubles is because its on our server, and it gives value to something already in the game instead of ignoring it and it becoming another useless item and since we mainly use it, it has brought value to it, a value that others claim that it wouldn't or doesn't have have. We could easily switch to bullets or guns if we wanted to, but since we are using rubles its created an opportunity to create Roleplay around that which we have done. A useless item like the ruble now has value and roleplay value thanks to us.

The traders also add roleplay to the server, you can build an idea around them like we have and generate RP like we have. We have added an alternative to the server which is not a mod, people can come to us and buy things from us that you can find at the trader like guns if they wish, and even though we mainly use rubles, other alternatives can be used as well like ammo and other guns or items that we need. Setting up in and around the traders can also create RP, robbing those that use them would force people to change up how they act and how they approach things and would lead to a lot of discussions on what to do etc etc. In other words create RP (inb4 hostileRP isn't real RP)

Now we have stacks of money like some others have mentioned, or in some other words, we have hoards of money or hoarding money. And this seems to be a problem how? Its not as if us or anyone hoarding money is hurting anyone else on the server. Most of the money I have gathered is from selling vehicles, I think I have about 40 thousand rubles, all by selling vehicles and then have used that same money to buy other vehicles from others. We hardly use the trader to buy mass amount of anything, most of what we have on us is by doing what literally everyone else does on the server, looting around. There is only the occasional item we buy like a certain colour of plate carrier for example, we use the money to buy stuff from other people like vehicles or anything we as a group find valuable to our goals.

tl;dr I never wanted them here but they are. Use them to your advantage or don't, use them to generate RP or don't. Removing them wouldn't change much, and I've personally come to like them some how and I intend on using them whether I am in Transporters or not.

 

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  • Moderator

@Craig sums it up perfectly really, the traders and the ATM systems in place really don't effect anything. They don't add to RP unless you MAKE them and WANT them to nor do they take anything away from RP. I agree with the previous statements however, maybe their stocks could be whittled down a little but I also think they're in a pretty good place. You don't HAVE to use them but they're there if you need that one thing you can't find. After all I come here to RP not search for basic necessities all the time. Since the traders i've found myself able to RP more as I don't really have to worry about finding specific items I used to have to scour the map for. I do disagree to a certain extent with the use of an ATM system but does it really matter? People are just going to hide the money in the most obscure places anyway so with or without the ATM its irrelevent. 

Ultimately you don't have to use them you could completely ignore them and play without them its entirely up to you I don't think removing them or changing the system will change much at all.

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  • Game Master

I'd prefer to replace the ATM and trader system with something like a trader credit system, whereby value (in this case, credit in place of roubles) is stored with the trader. You can then trade in this credit after accruing it through deals with the trader, in return for your M4, your AK, plate carrier or whatever. Cap the credit at 10k so its at max 2 loadouts for 1 person because if you die 3 times and need to regear at the trader each time you're either losing firefights badly or the environment just hates you, so change your playstyle.

I've never liked the safety of the ATMs and I never will, at least with the idea of intangible credit with a trader, it makes sense not to be able to rob somebody for their trader credit which is essentially just goodwill. 

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  • Emerald

Honestly the traders help with RP as you can earn money from them and pay others for stuff they do not sell

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1 hour ago, Craig said:

There is no official currency system IG. Rubles is not forced upon anyone and can simply be ignored. You are already free to setup another currency using bullets, same with the traders, they're not forced upon anyone and they don't take anything away from the server or the Roleplay.

It is the official currency of the server in all but name. When the Transporters host a boxing event and it costs 500 hundred rubles to compete than you're creating a system in which that currency is necessary for participation. At the same time you're right that the currency could be anything, guns, ammo, or medical supplies. The difference is that I can go out and loot this items without being forced to use a Trader system that you say I can avoid if I want. Money is spawned in game but, as someone who plays Dayz too much already, I'm quite certain that no one is going around picking up substantial amounts of cash off of dead infected or shopping stands.  

 

1 hour ago, Craig said:

The trader mod requires rubles and thats the only reason rubles exists on the server. You can use this to your advantage if you wish, use the roubles or rob those using the roubles. The idea that removing Traders and Rubles would increase roleplay in a realistic way because it would force people to chat with each other more which was mentioned above is silly, if this was a real situation you wouldn't go about causually talking to people you meet like we do IG.

I actually think that if people wanted to keep Rubles as a currency without AI traders that could make a lot of sense. Like in real life currency is just a place holder for the value of something else that is actually substantial, no reason to carry around 500 hundred rounds of 556 to trade when I can carry 500 pieces of paper. Onto your second point, fortunately Dayz isn't real life so the way players act is not always going to be realistic. Maybe I would walk up to someone, maybe I wouldn't, but what you can't deny is that when someone is running back and forth between Traders the RP value of it for themselves and others is very shallow. 

 

1 hour ago, Craig said:

The traders also add roleplay to the server, you can build an idea around them like we have and generate RP like we have. We have added an alternative to the server which is not a mod, people can come to us and buy things from us that you can find at the trader like guns if they wish, and even though we mainly use rubles, other alternatives can be used as well like ammo and other guns or items that we need.

The whole concept of the Transporter selling cars is a perfect example of great RP on the server that I would love to see more of but I think you're missing a really large aspect of that. You can't buy cars from AI Traders. If I wanted to open a gear stand or gun store I'd be competing with the AI Traders who have infinite stocks, larger selections, and potentially cheaper prices. The goal of Trader RP shouldn't be to make money because there's no winning Dayz, it should be to create fun player interactions but my ability to do that is hindered when competing with the AI's in the current system. 

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  • Diamond
48 minutes ago, Ender Cain said:

 The goal of Trader RP shouldn't be to make money because there's no winning Dayz, it should be to create fun player interactions but my ability to do that is hindered when competing with the AI's in the current system. 

The only reason we made an entry fee is to give a nice cash prize to the winner and we thought it would add more drama to the fights. Make them more interesting and tense for the participaters, so yeah we created a system of entry to the fight, but at the same time like you said the system could be anything and nothing.

Thanks for the compliment.

You made some good points overall in your post however I don't think they're any good points made by anyone here to warrent the removal of the mod. Either we want it or we don't, I think thats how the majority of the community votes tbh, that and if the mod is stable. I do believe based off of the RP we have generated that having them on the server adds to it more than hinders it, my opinion was the opposite months ago right enough.

Trust me we have already won DayZ, if this game had victory conditions like it was some 4x game we would have achieved all conditions. However we use the ruble because its IG and it gives some sort of value to it rather than some useless object you see every now and again, that and its actually very easy to accumulate a large amount of rubles.

I know the comment quoted above is not directly aimed at as, however you're very correct in what you're saying, it is about fun and thats what I try do for most people that I meet with my wacky character George. Most people who stop by do end up having a good time, as we do more than trading, we offer them helicopter rides sometimes if they've never been in one. My character George tells them very stupid and funny stories and people can stop by and we will feed them and give them water if needed.

In what way is your fun hindered by the AI Trader system, I'm curious?

1 hour ago, Ender Cain said:

Maybe I would walk up to someone, maybe I wouldn't, but what you can't deny is that when someone is running back and forth between Traders the RP value of it for themselves and others is very shallow.

This has been happening before the traders even got added, you bump into someone on the airfield and they say 'Hi' and 'Bye' because they have probably found some good stuff or they don't want to stop and chat for to long because they want to find the loot first. So it will happen ragardless if traders are in or not. Its up to the player to put the Roleplay first in these scenarios.

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17 minutes ago, Craig said:

In what way is your fun hindered by the AI Trader system, I'm curious?

In what way? It's honestly hard to measure because it all about missed opportunities. Not to keep bringing up the Transporters but look at how great that ONE groups RP is for the entire server. Good, bad, and ugly, everyone's got some sort of RP interaction with the group all because they're selling something people want. My point is, maybe if we changed the current system we might have even more groups like the Transporters who are actively driving RP through commerce. 

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