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Server time (UTC): 2021-08-03 10:32

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TODAY | 2021-08-03 19:00:00 (server time) | Starts in 8 hours, 27 minutes | Nyheim City

S1: No Time To Comply / Metagaming


VolraSlava

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Server and location:  Server 1 - Road between Stary Sobor and Kabanino

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME): 2021-04-08- 17:00

Your in game name: Christian Kleehammer

Names of allies involved: N/A

Name of suspect/s: Chedakis (Logs will show)

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any): Red Sarka

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): The video is a full 20 minutes long with the initiation being in the last minutes. I was not able to record them //'ing me to turn my stream off, but I am certain that logs will show.

Detailed description of the events:

I had been driving through Chernarus for a while, streaming on Discord in the OOC Channel of the Belic Bar Discord to several people, completing some chores like selling Items to the Western Trader, going to the ATM to stash money and going through NWAF and decided to conclude my Drive by returning to the Berezino Bar.

After passing through Kabanino and heading towards Stary Sobor I had been approached by a group of people in the middle of the road that I initially did not see, and was initiated on by the same people.
I immediately attempted to stop the Car but due to the speed that I was driving at, it took a while for the car to come to a full stop, during which I was fired upon, even though I had made attempts to comply with the demand of stopping my Car.

After I was given roleplay by the Chedakis and put into the back of my own car as a Hostage, they had forgotten to take my Radio, which they rectified by taking it from me through Text Form, and afterwards one of the Hostage Takers sent me a // telling me to turn off my stream and deafen myself in Discord.

After that I was given some solid HostageRP in the middle of the woods and was later released again with my Car and an injury.

No Time to Comply - I was immediately shot upon when I was initiated on, given little to no time to comply that did not take into account the braking distance of my car, especially at the speeds I was going at.

Metagaming - I believe that I was metagamed because at the point of initiation I had been streaming in a publicly viewable channel for over 20 minutes, and due to the way that I was approached and the subsequent demand to turn off my stream, I believe that my position had been metagamed by the Hostage Takers.

 

 

Edited by VolraSlava
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  • Lore Master
Posted (edited)

Jackfish's POV

 

First off I want to say that i'm very dissapointed. We provided the OP with +-30 minutes of roleplay and gave him back his car. He also did not get critically injured by us shooting him. 

So we were just getting used to our new characters when I suddenly see light coming from Kabanino. Ofcourse we decide to initiate and we started screaming. On my screen the OP didn't stop untill we started firing on his car. When he stopped we stopped firing and started with the roleplay.

We took the OP to Prud Lake where we started to RP with him. After the OP decided he didn't want to work with us we tortured him. The RP was very good in my opinion.

43 minutes ago, VolraSlava said:

No Time to Comply - I was immediately shot upon when I was initiated on, given little to no time to comply that did not take into account the braking distance of my car, especially at the speeds I was going at.

Cars in DayZ are buggy as fuck. On my screen you didn't brake untill we started firing on you, so from my POV we gave you enough time.

43 minutes ago, VolraSlava said:

Metagaming - I believe that I was metagamed because at the point of initiation I had been streaming in a publicly viewable channel for over 20 minutes, and due to the way that I was approached and the subsequent demand to turn off my stream, I believe that my position had been metagamed by the Hostage Takers.

No offense friend, but i'm not in any discords with you and neither would I watch your stream if I could. In your video I see you were streaming and showing your friends where we were and you were talking OOCly while your radio was taken + while we tried to RP with you.

I have no idea why this report was made. The OP didn't die or get hurt, he kept most of his supplies and he got 30+ minutes of good hostile roleplay. We also tried to speak with the OP in helpdesk but he rather keeps the report up then talk things out.

 

- I have no video evidence - 

Edited by Jackfish
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  • Emerald
Posted (edited)

Hello, Although not apart of the initiation i was the person who told him to end his stream after @SynO told me he had been searched for a radio/ it had been dropped. I was fresh spawn and made my way towards stary after spawning in my clothes and i met up and got picked up in the car, i said // can you end your stream or deafen please mate or something along the lines of that after being told that he was streaming whilst being a hostage with us. we drive towards prud lake however my game crashes and i have an issue with my headset so i restart my pc, join back straight away and run to prud giving the OP some roleplay, he was returned all his items apart from the pistol for myself which i kept and he got to keep his car and was sent on his way.

In RE to the No time to comply allegations, 1. You weren't killed nor were you even hit with a bullet so technically so it isn't really no time to comply, 2. In the video at 16:16 On the frame you see us you can see your mouse jitter just milliseconds before an initiation is dropped on you so you obviously saw us and got a fright, your speed was 80 KM/H and you proceed to speed up to 91 before deciding to slow down after being shot at which i find a tad bit weird.

In RE to the metagaming allegations, we told you to end your stream to prevent metagaming on your end, we asked you OOCLY after you were stripped of your radio, There is no way we could've metagamed anything to do with you in the slightest because 1. Most of us aren't even in that discord, 2. The only information that could be possibly granted to us would be a thumbnail of a stream WHICH UPDATES EVERY 5-10 Mins, and you're driving in the middle of the night.. it would take more than a rocket scientist to pinpoint your exact location. To add on as soon as you were initiated on people from your discord joined your stream straight away, so I'd like for connection logs to be pulled for @Woody , @Bunnie and @kalyri to see if they were both in game as this was happening.

at 19:40 @Jackfish says "*Grabs the mans radio if he has one*" To which in the video the OP says he doesn't have one anymore, however he is still remaining un-deafen and streaming to his discord.

We attempted to speak to the OP in HD to try to come to and understanding and to emphasise and explain our POV to the OP, however he said he would rather keep the report open so it can be 'done professionally'.

As for video evidence, i do not have any however the video the OP has already has some which is more than enough proof for a viable defence.

thank you slava chedaki.

-edit- Another thing to add, you can clearly see you didn't apply breaks to after you were shot at in the video, as you can see your break lights light up after initiation and you had sped up. You had 4 Seconds from initiation to the time you applied your breaks as seen in the video, that is more than enough time to be coherent and think of a decision.

Edited by Banksyy
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  • Sapphire

Hello gamers, I was one of the people who initiated on @VolraSlava. As for the metagame allegations, In no shape or form did we know that he was gonna come down the road as mine and @Murdocinitial plan was for me to meet up with @Jackfish, @Banksyy and @Hanro In Stary Sobor then move up towards NWAF through the main road, we notice car-lights shining behind the hill he was driving on, we immediately decided to initiate and so we did. Once we did scream for you to stop the car you decided to speed up and we thought you were gonna drive off, hence why most of us including myself started to shoot at you.

Once you actually stopped the car we immidiately stopped shooting and went up to tell you to get out of the car,  we stripped him of his radio and weapons and told him to get into the car, as they were driving off I stopped to look at their IC PUBLIC Frequency in the Bar discord to see if any of them had said anything about it, it was only then i noticed him streaming the situation and having his discord undeafened. That's when I told @Banksyy to tell him to stop streaming and deafen since we were weary about metagaming happening to us as they discussed as seen in the video. I then head to the NWAF to help @Hanrowith his fat characters food problem as he was dying of hunger. 

 

I do not have any video evidence nor will I respond to anyone but staff.

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  • Emerald
Posted (edited)

Murdoc's POV

Hi. As me and the rest of the commie boys met up on the road we saw a light coming right towards us. We decided to initiate immediatly as the car was coming at us with a good speed. After he went past us my comrades decided to shoot after him. As soon as shots rang out he decides to step on the break, the break lights finally light up and we manage to take him hostage. The OP did not get harmed when shot at, except a scare and maybe some slight PTSD afterwards. I tied him up and shortly after went into the drivers seat where I drove the bois towards Prud Lake [edit] after we met up with @Banksyy in Stary Sobor [edit]. We gave him ~30 Minutes of hostile RP and later on let him go together with pretty much most of his stuff and also the car.

Unfortunately, I couldn't take part in the helpdesk discussion that occured later on because I was needed IC. This all seems a bit unnecessary to be honest.

Also, no footage from my perspective. Goodbye.

Edited by Murdoc
forgot to add that detail
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  • Administrator

Connection Logs:

Spoiler

15:25:27 | Player "Christian Kleehammer" is connected
17:31:55 | Player "Christian Kleehammer" has been disconnected
17:37:28 | Player "Christian Kleehammer" is connected
17:38:21 | Player "Christian Kleehammer" has been disconnected
17:38:35 | Player "Christian Kleehammer" is connected
18:19:30 | Player "Christian Kleehammer" has been disconnected

16:39:09 | Player "Vasili Nikolaev" is connected
16:53:06 | Player "Vasili Nikolaev" has been disconnected
16:56:44 | Player "Vasili Nikolaev" is connected
17:31:56 | Player "Vasili Nikolaev" has been disconnected
17:35:02 | Player "Vasili Nikolaev" is connected
19:09:08 | Player "Vasili Nikolaev" has been disconnected

16:26:17 | Player "Vlad Kuznetsov" is connected
17:31:55 | Player "Vlad Kuznetsov" has been disconnected
17:35:29 | Player "Vlad Kuznetsov" is connected
18:53:40 | Player "Vlad Kuznetsov" has been disconnected

16:31:39 | Player "Vladimir Kruchakov" is connected
17:31:55 | Player "Vladimir Kruchakov" has been disconnected
17:34:28 | Player "Vladimir Kruchakov" is connected
19:12:15 | Player "Vladimir Kruchakov" has been disconnected

16:33:36 | Player "Sasa Saponjic" is connected
17:31:55 | Player "Sasa Saponjic" has been disconnected
17:33:53 | Player "Sasa Saponjic" is connected
19:08:43 | Player "Sasa Saponjic" has been disconnected

Hit Logs:

Spoiler

16:47:41 | Player "Christian Kleehammer" hit by AKM
17:09:18 | Player "Christian Kleehammer" hit by Player "Vasili Nikolaev"  into RightArm(17) for 7 damage (MeleeFist_Heavy)
17:18:46 | Player "Christian Kleehammer" hit by AKM
17:18:47 | Player "Christian Kleehammer" hit by is unconscious
17:19:31 | Player "Christian Kleehammer" hit by regained consciousness

Chat Logs:

Spoiler

16:48:30 | Chat("Vlad Kuznetsov"): *Points his gun at the man*
16:49:17 | Chat("Vlad Kuznetsov"): *pats the man on the back*&
16:50:11 | Chat("Vlad Kuznetsov"): *grabs the mans radio if he has one*
16:50:21 | Chat("Christian Kleehammer"): // There is a radio on me, it is gone now.
16:51:43 | Chat("Vasili Nikolaev"): // end your stream and mute on discord mate we can see u in the bar discord.
16:52:00 | Chat("Christian Kleehammer"): // none of them is ingame afaik
16:52:02 | Chat("Christian Kleehammer"): // its off
16:52:51 | Chat("Vlad Kuznetsov"): *looks into his shirt*
16:52:56 | Chat("Vlad Kuznetsov"): //trough*
16:53:00 | Chat("Christian Kleehammer"): :: There is a folded Red Star Beret in his shirt pocket ::
16:53:05 | Chat("Vlad Kuznetsov"): *grabs it*
16:54:44 | Chat("Vlad Kuznetsov"): *grabs his throat*
16:54:58 | Chat("Vlad Kuznetsov"): *Lets go*
17:02:57 | Chat("Christian Kleehammer"): :: Takes a seat in the chair. ::
17:03:00 | Chat("Vasili Nikolaev"): *inspecs the revolver
17:08:25 | Chat("Vlad Kuznetsov"): *crosses his arms*
17:09:14 | Chat("Vasili Nikolaev"): *grabs the man*
17:09:31 | Chat("Vlad Kuznetsov"): *Crosses his arms*
17:09:34 | Chat("Vasili Nikolaev"): *slams the door on the mans elbow // does it break?
17:09:44 | Chat("Christian Kleehammer"): :: It doesn't break, yet. ::
17:11:15 | Chat("Vasili Nikolaev"): *slams it again* // would it break this time?
17:11:27 | Chat("Christian Kleehammer"): // Yes, the arm breaks with a resounding crack
17:11:41 | Chat("Christian Kleehammer"): // WHICH ARM BROKE?
17:11:43 | Chat("Vladimir Kruchakov"): //perm to permanent scar? gonna carve a skull into you, a small one
17:11:46 | Chat("Vasili Nikolaev"): // left
17:11:53 | Chat("Christian Kleehammer"): // you just broke my arm, no scarring
17:11:56 | Chat("Vladimir Kruchakov"): //ok
17:15:24 | Chat("Vladimir Kruchakov"): *Turns on his radio*
17:15:34 | Chat("Vasili Nikolaev"): *speaks russian to his comrade*
17:16:07 | Chat("Vladimir Kruchakov"): *turns off raido*
17:18:14 | Chat("Vlad Kuznetsov"): *The man would notice tattoos on the mans skull*&
17:18:44 | Chat("Vlad Kuznetsov"): *hits him with the gun, knocking him out if you let it*
17:18:54 | Chat("Vasili Nikolaev"): // does my mic sound too loud?
17:18:57 | Chat("Vladimir Kruchakov"): //no
17:19:01 | Chat("Vladimir Kruchakov"): //perfect
17:31:48 | Chat("Christian Kleehammer"): :: The man's left arm is hanging limply ::

Calling in the following people to post their Point of Views & any video evidence they may have:
@VolraSlava | Fake Christian | OP

Accused
@Banksyy | Vasili Nikolaev | POSTED
@Jackfish | Vlad Kuznetsov | POSTED
@SynO | Vladimir Kruchakov | POSTED
@Murdoc | Sasa Saponjic | POSTED

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  • Game Master

@SynO, @Jackfish, @Murdoc - Just so we are clear, and from reviewing the POVs I wanted to be certain. Jackfish and Syn0, only you two opened fire and Murdoc held his fire during the initiation?

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  • Sapphire
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Rover said:

@SynO, @Jackfish, @Murdoc - Just so we are clear, and from reviewing the POVs I wanted to be certain. Jackfish and Syn0, only you two opened fire and Murdoc held his fire during the initiation?

Yes I was one of the people who was shooting at the car

Edited by SynO
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  • Emerald
3 minutes ago, Rover said:

@SynO, @Jackfish, @Murdoc - Just so we are clear, and from reviewing the POVs I wanted to be certain. Jackfish and Syn0, only you two opened fire and Murdoc held his fire during the initiation?

I was infact about to shoot. But thanks to the others that already opened fire, the OP was thankfully and fortunate enough to step on the breaks. So no, I did not fire.

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  • Lore Master
Posted (edited)

I indeed shot at the person that didn't stop even though I told him to. 

Edited by Jackfish
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  • Administrator

@Murdoc What side of the road were you standing when the group initiated on the car ?

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  • Emerald
1 hour ago, Realize said:

@Murdoc What side of the road were you standing when the group initiated on the car ?

Right side from the OP's perspective. I'm the guy with the bandana. 

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  • Game Master

Verdict

Attempted Invalid Kill - @Jackfish & @SynO - Guilty

Metagaming - The Accused - Inconclusive

Metagaming - @VolraSlava - Not Guilty

 

Summary

In this situation, @VolraSlavais driving down the road when @Jackfish, @SynO, and @Murdoc initiate on him. He is then shot at before he is able to comply and stop the vehicle, exit the vehicle, and be detained. He is then provided at least a half an hour of what is agreed on to be solid roleplay, before being released with his belongings and his car. During the entire incident that @VolraSlava was in, he was streaming into an OOC section of his groups discords, to community members that had no involvement in the situation.

 

Reasoning

Attempted Invalid Kill - This was a terrible initiation. From the moment @VolraSlava is able to hear the first sound of the initiation, to the first sound of gunfire, is around 1.25 seconds. From the "V-" of "Vehicle put your hands up" to the first gunshot. One and a quarter seconds was all the time that he was given to hear, comprehend, and act on an initiation of 'Vehicle put your hands up' while he is driving at high speed. Frankly the fact none of you admitted this was a bad initiation in the report is baffling. First off, not nearly enough time was given to comply. We understand that the OP was driving a vehicle at a high rate of speed, which obviously means initiating is going to be difficult, but that is 100% not his fault, and entirely the choice of the accused to elect to initiate at a 'high risk' target. There is simply no way any of us can believe you were able to determine his actions were non-compliance in the less then a second since a valid initiation was dropped. It took just under a half second to say the initiation, and then the OP was given three quarters of a second to hear it, understand it, and act on it? No chance.

Additionally, shouting "Vehicle put your hands up" at someone driving a vehicle is.... technically not even a valid initiation, as he is game-mechanics limited from doing that. But we are going to ignore that, as immediately following this he was initiated on with proper demands. I didn't even hear a demand to stop until after the OP had been shot at, and was already stopping.

Metagaming - The Accused - There is no evidence that the accused used the knowledge that @VolraSlava was streaming to find him or otherwise coordinate their efforts around this. In the future, we would recommend not to take OOC information in game and use // to call out people for perceived rulebreaks. Leave that to the staff members, and if you have a concern address it in the helpdesk with one present.

Metagaming - @VolraSlava - Being in a stream is not instantly metagaming. What @VolraSlava was doing is no different then someone with a twitch stream engaging with their viewers, or having a stream running, while in game. None of the people from the discord stream participated in the event or acted on anything they knew, meaning that the information wasn't metagamed. Had any of them been in game and started to move towards @VolraSlava (Based on OOC information, and not a broadcast that may have been made while he had a radio or after he got one later) then it'd be punished with metagaming.

 

Suggestions

@Jackfish@SynO - When you initiate on a vehicle, you must give them time to comply. You can't just spit out the words then start shooting once the vehicle moves past you. "Vehicle put your hands up" should be replaced with "Vehicle, stop!" or "Vehicle, stop or die"! or something to that effect. The quicker you can finish and convey your message, the quicker your initiation can be considered valid. When you choose an initiation that is long (and invalid) it doesn't really give your case any weight. We think in the middle of the first part of the initiation where someone is saying to put their hands up, a different voice can be picked out saying 'stop', but its so drowned out by the noise of three people yelling at once its incomprehensible.  Even if it was heard clearly, it would still be invalid due to not giving enough time to comply. When in doubt, err on the side of caution not on the side of shooting invalidly. Initiating on a vehicle at speed is all around a bad idea, and its far better to cut your losses and 'lose' your target then it is to gun them down invalidly.

@VolraSlava- Despite everything we have said above, we are disappointed you chose to go through a report for this. Aside from the attempt to murder you invalidly, which did not result in you taking any damage, you were given quality roleplay and complimented the accused for the experience. To then open a report on it is.... strange. You are within your right to do so, and the rulebreaks you chose to report for were 1/2 valid, but still. This should have begun and ended in the helpdesk. This would be a perfect example of a situation where the parties have a cordial coming together of heads, learn from it, and move on without tainting OOC relationships and causing OOC animosity over a report for something that amounted to 5 seconds of a 30+ minute situation.

Overall, the combination of the guilty parties not admitting fault and the report even being opened in the first place has left the staff team feeling...

disappointed kevin sorbo GIF

Outcome

@Jackfish - Attempted Invalid Kill - Guilty, 2 day ban and 5 warning points.

@SynO - Attempted Invalid Kill - Guilty, 2 day ban and 5 warning points.

 

Signed.: @Rover, @Lettuce

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