Jump to content

Server time (UTC): 2021-08-04 22:58

S1 Chernarus; Polana; Invalid Kill


BeanSimp

Recommended Posts

  • Diamond

Server and location: S1 Chernarus

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME): 2/20/21 12:45-13:00

Your in game name: Wynne Walker

Names of allies involved: Alexei Novak

Name of suspect/s: Mr Tree @Tree

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any): N/A

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): @Panda Video Evidence (He will upload)

Detailed description of the events: Was getting some end of the "evening" vibe RP after a long day with @Panda and we're just chilling outside of Polana under a pretty dope tree, when we are approached by a much less friendly Tree and given a very confusing "Stand Up alkjsdflajsdlfkjasdf or youre dead" initiation. But after he repeated himself a few times and slowed down I was able to understand him, er, sort of.
I went to stand up, but of course, the DayZ animations are slower than molasses so, it took me a second to cancel sit AND stand, AND go hands up. 
That being said, I was able to comply in a timely manner. My ally behind me, which I cannot see as I am facing Tree, decided to take his chances to Non-Comply, and ducked behind the large tree. Tree (the man, not the tree panda ducked behind) then shot directly at me, I believe a two tap, (you can see this in the video) while Panda strafed leftward behind the trunk. I exited my discord channel upon death and hopped to an ooc channel and was only there a moment before Panda joined me and confirmed that I had been shot first, and that he had died shortly after after strafing around the left of the tree. 

Link to post
  • Sapphire

Panda POV:

Went with @BeanMama to go sit under this dank tree, before I have to go on a little bit of a IRL hiatus, when this man with am accent comes up to us and asks us to "Stand up, and say something, or youre dead." The first couple of times before finally saying "Stand up, dont say anything or youre dead." Wynne, who was in front of me the entire time, decided to comply and I decided not to. Since I went up to the tree to relax I sadly did a stupid and put my plate carrier off and got two tapped to unconsciousness, then finished off just a moment later.

I have video evidence however, same as before, I am unable to upload it. A GM can ask for it tho! Thanks!

 

https://gyazo.com/5c8d715c11dcabbb2eef405e78a04c98

 

will only reply if staff asks me to

Edited by Panda
Link to post
  • Game Master

Hit logs

Spoiler

12:34:02 | Player "Wynne Walker" hit by Player "Paul Jones" with FN SCAR-H STD from 2.85595 meters 
12:34:03 | Player "Wynne Walker" hit by Player "Paul Jones" with FN SCAR-H STD from 3.29684 meters 

12:34:02 | Player "Alexei Novak" hit by Player "Paul Jones" with FN SCAR-H STD from 6.75804 meters 
12:34:04 | Player "Alexei Novak" hit by Player "Paul Jones" with FN SCAR-H STD from 6.54688 meters 
12:34:04 | Player "Alexei Novak" hit by is unconscious
12:34:07 | Player "Alexei Novak" hit by Player "Paul Jones" with FN SCAR-H STD from 4.50012 meters 
12:34:07 | Player "Alexei Novak" hit by Player "Paul Jones" with FN SCAR-H STD from 4.28936 meters 

Kill logs

Spoiler

12:34:03 | Player "Wynne Walker" (DEAD) killed by Player "Paul Jones" with FN SCAR-H STD from 3.29684 meters 
12:38:16 | Player "Wynne Walker" (DEAD) died.

12:34:07 | Player "Alexei Novak" (DEAD) killed by Player "Paul Jones" with FN SCAR-H STD from 4.50012 meters 
12:38:16 | Player "Alexei Novak" (DEAD) died.

Connection logs

Spoiler

12:27:03 | Player "Wynne Walker" is connected
Dead
12:40:50 | Player "Wynne Walker" has been disconnected

12:22:35 | Player "Alexei Novak" is connected
Dead
13:42:48 | Player "Alexei Novak" has been disconnected

12:19:32 | Player "Paul Jones" is connected
13:45:10 | Player "Paul Jones" has been disconnected

Calling in the following people for their full and detailed POVs and any unedited video evidence they may have:

@BeanMama | Wynne Walker | OP
@Panda | Alexei Novak | POSTED

@Tree | Paul Jones | POSTED

Link to post
  • Titanium

POV:

I would firstly like to note at the time I was on Combo not Mr Tree.

I was going on a nice morning walk through the clean streets of Polana when I noticed two young lovebirds sat arm in arm under a tree. I saw they were wearing white armbands so I decided to take a closer look. I was bemused, these two looked strikingly like Wynne and Alexi; the leaders of the group who cleaned out my compound last night and attacked me and my people in Pusta!
The stars had aligned and provided me with a once in a lifetime opportunity to capture these two people of the highest value. I deliberated as I did not wish to disturb their little talk under the tree however these were people responsible for the pain and suffering of my friends. "What am I to do?" I thought to myself, after a long reflection on the situation I decided to radio my friends and tell them about my dilemma. Following further deliberation we decided to capture these lovebirds and take them into the woods for a discussion, perhaps we could come to understand their motivations behind destroying our home? Or at least we could iron out the miscommunications between our groups? The answer lied in their capture.
I decided to sneak around behind the tree they were located at, roughly 50m away laying in the grass I awaited the arrival of my compadre's. I was sat here for a while before I got nervous thinking perhaps they would leave? or their bodyguards would return? At last I was told an ally of mine was within visual range of the lovers so I decided now was my time to strike.
I was up, running towards the tree, I was nervous, my palms were sweaty, my knees were weak and my arms were heavy.
I reached the tree from the eastern side and told them "If you stand up and talk then you're dead!" repeatedly. In the confusion they both decided to stand up and the lady decided to speak! What was I to do? shoot? would it be wrong for me to shoot? would I look weak if I didn't follow through on my actions?
I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt when the gentleman who was stood behind the lady decided to pull out his gun! "I should've just shot them when they first disobeyed me!" I thought to myself. In the rush I shot at the gentleman with his gun out however because of his presence behind his lady (In combination with lag shown in panda's video) I accidentally shot her in the crossfire. Unfortunately due to the nature of the powerful automatic rifle I was operating the lady was killed in two shots to the body. Unphased by this due to the adrenaline pumping through my body in this life or death situation, I proceeded to shoot the not so gentleman as well, as a means of valuing my existence.
Following these escapades I proceeded to continue and enjoy my morning walk.


Analysis:

While it is not argued that the complying hostage is killed, I would like to raise 5 points which led to that situation and I feel justify my actions
 

1. The non compliant used the OP as cover

In the video with Panda can clearly be seen crouching behind the OP, it became clear to me he wasn't going to comply and I was put in a situation where I would be forced to shoot through the gaps in her body in order to neutralize the combatant. I am unaware on the rules of using complying teammates as cover but as a counterargument I may propose the combatant used ruleplay in an attempt to gain an upperhand on me in combat. He knew my requirements to preserve the life of the complying party, so he used that against me to place him in a situation where either he killed me or I could be reported if he died. I feel it is reasonable that in a real life situation you wouldn't expect someone to use their partner as a human meat shield.
 

2. I value my life over a hostage

Bearing in mind what I established in the last point, I feel it is justified for me to value the life of my character over the life of a combatants ally who is being used as a shield. From the moment I saw him not complying, my priority went from disarming them to preserving my characters life, which due to Panda's position behind the OP, resulted in me shooting the OP.
 

3. My bullets were directed at the non compliant

In the video along with the logs it can be seen that my second bullet made contact with both parties.

12:34:02 | Player "Wynne Walker" hit by Player "Paul Jones" with FN SCAR-H STD from 2.85595 meters
12:34:02 | Player "Alexei Novak" hit by Player "Paul Jones" with FN SCAR-H STD from 6.75804 meters  

This is despite the fact that in the video the combatant appears to be behind the tree when my bullet makes first contact with him. I would like to use this to emphasize the fact that while on Panda's screen, he was behind the tree, on my screen he was stood behind the OP. I feel this must be accounted for when considering my intents or lack thereof to kill the complying party. It would be impossible for me to have hit both parties with the same bullet if on my screen he weren't stood directly behind the OP. This led me to make my decisions based on the presumption that Panda was using the OP as cover.
 

4. The lag spike

We all know how unstable this game is, combine that with the low TTK of combat in this game and the fact that Panda was behind the hostage. I was left in a position where it was very difficult for me to neutralize the non compliant hostage while preserving the life of the compliant one. In the video at precisely 0.14 in the video we can see Pandas game freezes, a freeze in which I felt the same affect of. If you freeze the footage at this moment you can also see that despite Panda being behind the tree on his screen, my bullet just connected with him, the same bullet that also connected with the OP. 
While I understand the responsibility of accounting for bugs and lag lays in my hand I hope this can help people understand the difficulty of the situation I'm in.

 

5. In accordance with rule 4.6 I had the rights to kill

Rule 4.6 states "Hostages may only be executed in the following scenarios.... Hostages do not comply with demands after repeated requests.... Approved group of the hostage refuse to negotiate or open fire on hostage takers".
To address the first point listed, the video shows me state multiple times "Stand up or talk and you're dead" despite this both parties decided to stand up and talk to me, however I appreciate my communication was not at its best so I took no issue with this behavior at the time.

What provides a more convincing argument however is the latter of the points listed. Panda pulled out his gun while stood behind Wynne using her as a shield. This both shows clear intent of non compliance along with intent on firing on the hostage takers, even if it came at the cost of the compliant hostage. So given that along with both parties being members of the same approved group, I feel rule 4.6 gave me kill rights on both the compliant and non compliant hostages.

13a3c21eed233b7a91567688fe37ac78.png.059a2cd6cbb43d70e384a749c2dff322.png
 

Conclusion:
To sum up my side of the story, I will concede that in an ideal world, the OP would not have died. As specially given I had no intent on killing either parties in the first place. I however feel that due to the reasons listed in this response, the combatant's actions through non compliance were what lead to the OP's death. Because of these actions I felt my response which resulted in me shooting the OP in the crossfire are not only understandable, but justified by rule 4.6.
So with this in mind I offer my apologies to the OP and their partner for the frustration they must've faced in that situation, however due to it being a product of the combatants actions, I refute the claim that my kill on the OP was in fact "Invalid".

***FOOTAGE OF THE SITUATION FROM THE POV OF THE COMBATANT***

 

Edited by Tree
Typo
Link to post
  • Game Master

Verdict

Invalid Kill (On sight) - @Tree - Guilty

 

Summary

In this situation, @BeanMama & @Panda are sitting at the base of the tree  talking. @Tree approaches and gives an initiation, at which point @BeanMama complies, @Panda does not comply, and @Tree shoots @BeanMama dead, then @Panda.

 

Reasoning

Invalid Kill (On Sight) - This boils down to the simple fact that @Tree did not gain rights on @BeanMama whom was complying. Regardless of the actions of @Panda, @BeanMama was complying and did not need to be shot and killed. This is fairly cut and dry. Attacker rights do not allow you to kill a complying hostage, and execution rights were not applicable at this point in the situation and would be a stretch to try and claim they can be used.

We simply do not feel that @Panda attempted to use @BeanMama as cover in this situation. At the point he went non-compliant, he ran behind the tree. Up until that point, the positioning of himself being behind @BeanMama was entirely due to @Tree's own choice of where and how he initiated from, and we can't fault @Panda for @Tree choosing to line them both up. There is no instance of ruleplay here, as @Tree chose the angle to approach and initiate from, and the very first actual choice of motion @Panda makes other then standing up is to move away from @BeanMama and behind the tree.

Extenuating Circumstances - In this situation, @BeanMamas own approved group member did non-comply. This does not in anyway justify the kill as the kill was done without valid rights. However, were it not for @Panda's choice to non-comply, @BeanMama would not have died. Additionally, we are factoring in the lag spike into our decision. At the same time, we are counting against @Tree the quality of his initiation, which was poor from the onset.

 

Suggestions

@Tree You botched this initiation from the very beginning. In the future when you deliver an initiation, we would advise you to lead with a strong command. If we take what your intended initiation was, which was not how it was received, it was intended to be "Stand up or say a word and you are dead." By the time people are hearing "you are dead" they will have already interpreted what you want as them standing up, especially when you add another demand in the middle to draw it out. Additionally, we had to rewatch the video a number of times to make sure we were understanding what you were saying correctly, and any initiation that leaves room for ambiguity is borderline invalid.

It also does not help that the tone you used was growing more insistent each time you repeated yourself, making it seem like you felt they were not doing what you wanted them to do.

In the future, for the message you were trying to get across, we would suggest an initiation consisting of "Don't stand up or speak or you are dead."

We do appreciate that you recognized your initiation was not clear, and did not immediately start shooting. This is being factored into your punishment.

 

If you don't want your hostages to use each other as human shields don't line them up that way. You were the only person in this situation that had any control over your own line of fire; You were the one that elected to place them in a straight line providing @Panda any 'cover' he gained from a complying hostage.

 

Outcome

@Tree - Invalid Kill (On Sight) - Guilty - EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES - 3 day ban, 10 warning points, character reset.

 

Signed.: @Rover & @Duplessis

 

Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...