KOS/RDM Green Mountain - 11/15/20 11:15AM PST

[BeanMama]

Server and location: S1 Chernarus; Green Mountain

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME): 11/15/20 11:10am PST

Your in game name: Wynne Walker

Names of allies involved: @wastingdoor@edgy Dingle@Noble And some other rag tags

Name of suspect/s: Unknown assailant

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any): None by my knowledge 

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): Unfortunately was not recording today

Detailed description of the events: 

Green Mountain, led by @wastingdoor, was down in Zelenogorsk with some civilian visitors, speaking with Ocelari/OBN, when @Noble heard on radio that there was an unknown attacker at Green Mountain. We had recently been being harassed very regularly by a few random groups. So we assumed it may be them and we went up in a small force to check it out. As we approached the walls, I broke off to the left with my sniper rifle, as I knew I'd be useless in close combat. As I broke off I was looking to my right, toward the compound, I heard a shuffle in the trees to my left, and was gunned down immediately, as far as I knew, there was no initiation. I don't know who was attacking, and no one would have been able to identify me as any part of an official group, as I do not wear a uniform of any sort, and the only roster I am on is not yet approved anyway. No one had kill rights on me as I had not initiated either. 

Hope this can get sorted. I don't like reporting but getting KOS'd without any RP even to the point of knowing someone has me in their sights is kind of cruddy. Thanks!

[CutieHampze]

I ran in the compund with some guyse, initiated. Grabbed a SVD and some radios of the people we initated on and ran out again, dropped some radios in the woods then hide in a bush, to be the "outside guy". A min or 2 went by and there was footsteps next to me, so i get out from the bush and initiated, seeing a woman with a gun in her hands looking at me. Then starting to run thoards me so i gun you down and run NW a bit further away to see if someone comes to check it out. By this time the other guyse inside had been overran by alot of guyse and where gunned down. So i hide.

I ended up PKing after surrendering, cus i had nowhere to go and people running ledgit over me all the time looking for me. 

As you say, you know there is an active attack at GM so why run up there with a gun out if you didnt want a gunfight, that ends with you dying. 

Note: I was in a ghillie suit.

[Noble]

POV:
So as roleplay goes on in Zelenogorsk I turn on my radio to talk to one of my superiors only to hear one of them saying they are putting their hands up which of course is what you'd say when you get initiated on, I round up a bunch of our guys and AJ lines and make my way up there with GM, Ocelari and AJ lines, we know where they are so we drop the initiation, I don't know what happens to Wynne after as I commence in the battle.
 

[BeanMama]

Hi Hampze, I didnt know the entire situation, as I was not personally in comms with any of the victims of the attack. Which is one reason I split off from the group that was headed into combat. My character is not typically a front line combatant, and I only planned on lending support if my friends found themselves overwhelmed. Like you, I was planning on staying outside. 
Logs will show I was steering clear of the fight, not intending to initiate on anyone unless I felt I had to. I was out of VOIP range for any initiations as well. 

And yes, you being in a ghillie, I heard you but did not see you until the very last second when you sprayed me, as I was originally looking to my right, and you were somewhere from my left, at least thats how the footsteps sounded in my headset. I heard no initiation. I did not raise a gun at you as I did not even see where you were, in fact, even when I turned around, I was moving so fast that you just blended in with the trees, and I wasnt even absolutely certain I had heard footsteps.
At the end of the day, I understand being in a tense situation and being nervous about people coming at you in the woods, but as neither you nor I had kill rights on each other, one of us should have initiated and given time to comply if we were to engage. This is to encourage roleplay over PVP, of course. I felt as though I very much lost out on an opportunity to roleplay, as if I had the time to comply, being on my own with a long range weapon, I likely would have complied, but I was not given the chance to register that I was even being attacked, so, unfortunately, here we are. 

Lastly, holding a gun =/= initiating. Someone holding a gun doesnt automatically mean they are hostile, and a gunfight had not yet ensued. I believe the logs should show this, as I at the very least did not hear any gunfire until it was aimed at myself.

I will leave the rest up to the staff team to look at, from my perspective and with the knowledge I have, however, this is a rule break, and prior discussions have indicated to report rule breaks on the server, unpleasant as it may be.

[CutieHampze]

Im sure i initiated. I have no idea why you didnt hear it, maybe somethin was happening with my mic or game. I was trying to save recording around 5 min after i gunned you down, but when i pressed the 2 keys to get in to Nvidia overlay for me my screen went black. I waited and then got a message saying Nvidia crashed, then my game stop responding and i had to restart my pc. I log back in and just chill in my bush with people running all around me.  Loggs will show i dissapeard and appeard again after a few min. 

Last im sorry for not making sure you heard the initiation, but i was stressed and knew when you initate on one of AJ line there is 10 more of them 2min away

Edited November 15, 2020 by Hampze

[Duplessis]

Thank you all for your patience.

HIT LOGS

Spoiler

19:12:11 | Player "Wynne Walker" (pos=<3707.5, 6137.5, 383.8>) hit by Player "John Persson" (pos=<3699.6, 6142.4, 383.1>) with AK-15 from 9.34143 meters 
19:12:12 | Player "Wynne Walker" (pos=<3701.8, 6139.7, 383.6>) hit by Player "John Persson" (pos=<3699.2, 6140.6, 383.5>) with AK-15 from 2.77732 meters 
19:12:12 | Player "Wynne Walker" (pos=<3701.8, 6139.7, 383.6>) hit by Player "John Persson" (pos=<3699.2, 6140.6, 383.5>) with AK-15 from 2.77732 meters 
19:12:12 | Player "Wynne Walker" (pos=<3701.4, 6139.3, 383.7>) hit by Player "John Persson" (pos=<3699.2, 6140.6, 383.5>) with AK-15 from 2.58209 meters 

KILL LOGS

Spoiler

19:12:12 | Player "Wynne Walker" (DEAD) (pos=<3701.8, 6139.7, 383.6>) killed by Player "John Persson" (pos=<3699.2, 6140.6, 383.5>) with AK-15 from 2.77732 meters 

POSITION LOGS

Spoiler

19:11:08 | Player "Wynne Walker" (pos=<3494.6, 6085.7, 361.0>) 

19:11:08 | Player "Vitoly Jerabek" (pos=<3517.5, 5989.3, 364.8>) 

19:11:08 | Player "John Persson" (pos=<3707.4, 6144.4, 382.5>)
19:16:07 | Player "John Persson" (pos=<3721.1, 6378.8, 346.7>)
19:21:07 | Player "John Persson" (pos=<3720.9, 6379.2, 346.7>)
19:26:06 | Player "John Persson" (pos=<3720.9, 6379.2, 346.7>)

19:11:08 | Player "Aslan Ravn Ehlers" (pos=<3516.7, 5989.1, 364.5>) 

19:11:08 | Player "Deacon William Johnson" (pos=<3522.6, 5998.8, 367.3>)

CONNECTION LOGS

Spoiler

18:32:10 | Player "Wynne Walker" is connected
19:12:36 | Player "Wynne Walker" has been disconnected

18:26:58 | Player "Vitoly Jerabek" is connected
19:14:30 | Player "Vitoly Jerabek" has been disconnected
19:14:44 | Player "Vitoly Jerabek" is connected
19:28:44 | Player "Vitoly Jerabek" has been disconnected
19:30:05 | Player "Vitoly Jerabek" is connected
20:05:17 | Player "Vitoly Jerabek" has been disconnected

18:26:35 | Player "John Persson" is connected
19:28:07 | Player "John Persson" has been disconnected
19:37:58 | Player "John Persson" is connected
20:05:17 | Player "John Persson" has been disconnected

18:08:11 | Player "Aslan Ravn Ehlers" is connected
18:23:49 | Player "Aslan Ravn Ehlers" has been disconnected
18:26:18 | Player "Aslan Ravn Ehlers" is connected
19:24:40 | Player "Aslan Ravn Ehlers" has been disconnected
19:27:00 | Player "Aslan Ravn Ehlers" is connected
20:00:58 | Player "Aslan Ravn Ehlers" has been disconnected

18:28:52 | Player "Deacon William Johnson" is connected
20:05:17 | Player "Deacon William Johnson" has been disconnected

---

Calling in the following people for their full and detailed POVs and any unedited video evidence they may have:

@edgy BeanMama | Wynne Walker - OP
@Noble | Vitoly Jerabek - Posted
@Hampze | John Persson - Posted
@edgy Dingle | Aslan Ravn Ehlers - Posted
@wastingdoor | Deacon William Johnson - Posted

[wastingdoor]

sorry for my late response i didn't see this until now, but i don't have much input to this report i ran up the hill with everyone because i heard there was something going on and GM and then shooting started, i didn't know what was even going on fully i'm sorry that's everything i know.

[Duplessis]

@edgy BeanMama Just so I am clear; you were going up to Green Mountain to assist in the hostilities/fight?

[Jamie]

10 hours ago, wastingdoor said:

sorry for my late response i didn't see this until now, but i don't have much input to this report i ran up the hill with everyone because i heard there was something going on and GM and then shooting started, i didn't know what was even going on fully i'm sorry that's everything i know.

I understand that you do not have much to contribute, but you can put a bit more effort into that POV.  Please try again, and explain things to me like I'm a white belt learning karate. Thanks. 

[Dingle]

Aslan's POV:

We were getting a tour around Zelenogorsk by the Ocelari, when suddenly an Ocelari soldier tells us that there's a hostage situation going on at Green Mountain where we had just been. We quickly turn for GM and start running up into the forest. Me and the others quickly advance up towards the compound, when Wynne yells she is going to break off, and runs off to the left from us, away from the compound. Shortly after I hear a call that someone is coming up behind me, only to realize that it's an ally from AJ lines. When we link up with our allies, myself and the others around the compound initiate on everyone inside the compound, and the firefighting ensues. I wrap around the backside from where we approached and jump over the fence. Shortly after the firefight inside the compound has ended, I hear that Wynne is down somewhere. Knowing she didn't run up to the compound with us, but instead broke off into the woods, me and a few others run out to try to find her and her potential killer. We find her body in the woods at GM away from the compound almost on the opposite end of where we initially approached GM from. Later on I get told that the last guy has been found and taken hostage.

[CutieHampze]

53 minutes ago, edgy Dingle said:

Aslan's POV:

We were getting a tour around Zelenogorsk by the Ocelari, when suddenly an Ocelari soldier tells us that there's a hostage situation going on at Green Mountain where we had just been. We quickly turn for GM and start running up into the forest. Me and the others quickly advance up towards the compound, when Wynne yells she is going to break off, and runs off to the left from us, away from the compound. Shortly after I hear a call that someone is coming up behind me, only to realize that it's an ally from AJ lines. When we link up with our allies, myself and the others around the compound initiate on everyone inside the compound, and the firefighting ensues. I wrap around the backside from where we approached and jump over the fence. Shortly after the firefight inside the compound has ended, I hear that Wynne is down somewhere. Knowing she didn't run up to the compound with us, but instead broke off into the woods, me and a few others run out to try to find her and her potential killer. We find her body in the woods at GM away from the compound almost on the opposite end of where we initially approached GM from. Later on I get told that the last guy has been found and taken hostage.

How did you know she is down? As you can se below she clearly states she was not in comms with any of ya´ll.

And you states that she yelled when she took off from you guyse, and didnt tell you over radio.

19 hours ago, edgy BeanMama said:

I didnt know the entire situation, as I was not personally in comms with any of the victims of the attack.

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Hampze

[Dingle]

6 minutes ago, Hampze said:

How did you know she is down? As you can se below she clearly states she was not in comms with any of ya´ll.

I don't think any of us knew for sure, but someone probably tried to reach her over radio, only for her not to respond and then assuming that she might either have been taken hostage or had been killed. Either way, none of us knew where she ran to or what happened to her during the firefight, but knowing she ran off away from the compound into the woods, we decided to go look for her. It was only after the firefight had ended inside the compound that someone must have noticed that they couldn't come into contact with her.

10 minutes ago, Hampze said:

And you states that she yelled when she took off from you guyse, and didnt tell you over radio.

Exactly, and I saw her run away from us too as we ran towards to compound. As far as I remember she yelled that she was going to break off, and that's the last time I personally saw or heard from her.

[CutieHampze]

1 hour ago, edgy Dingle said:

Wynne is down somewhere

At first you say she was downed "killed" somewhere and now youre changing the story. I know i was in a call talking to some people from AJ Line OOCly about all this, and then someone knows out of nowhere she is down somewhere. 

Staff can you please get position logs of the people that found her body. If that is possible.
Im not blaming anyone, i just want to make sure

Edited November 16, 2020 by Hampze

[Noble]

I alongside Deacon scouted throughout the woods and we did in fact locate her body.

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, Hampze said:

At first you say she was downed "killed" somewhere and now youre changing the story. I know i was in a call talking to some people from AJ Line OOCly about all this, and then someone knows out of nowhere she is down somewhere.

Using the word "downed" from what I can only assume would come from the assumption, based off of the fact that she wasn't responding. At that time, she could equally have been taken hostage or just not on radio and be safe for all we knew, but either way decided to go look for her. I was one of the ones looking, but I'm not sure about who else went out with me. Equally given she wasn't actively on radio it could just have been worry that pushed someone to call for her to be down. At the time, none of us knew for sure, but it was unusual for her not to come up to the compound or tune into the radio after the gunfire had stopped.

[CutieHampze]

Did you locate her body or someone else?

[BeanMama]

Sorry, staff, just woke up. 
Yes, I went up to green mountain to provide assistance. Not every kind of assistance is combat oriented. I am actively a field medic (you can see this on my roster history with Alistair as well as my current roster listing with Obrana Naroda) and, aside from my sniper rifle, I carry things that keep people alive. My character is generally a civilian non-combatant. Will I shoot if I am directly threatened? Sure, but if I can provide support in another way I prefer to, this playstyle is reflected by my record on this server. I typically am not a serial PVPer on this server and even though I rock a sniper, I am not just out for blood. Just stating this to clear up any insinuation that I might have just been looking to take pot shots, as my original phrasing was a little too vague. I also value my characters life. This was my first death on this character. This is why I was backing off.  
I do not know who found me in the woods. I had my comms muted. But considering the gunshots that killed me were, to my knowledge, the first shots of the altercation, I would assume thats how someone figured out I was down. Everyone knows I do not use automatic weapons, and Im the one who didnt come back. I expect that wouldnt be difficult. 

I would like to state as well that I do not know Hampze and I am not a person who reports often, my last report was in 2019. My understanding, especially after reading staff feedback in the thread "Why dont you report?" a couple months back,  was that if I felt as a player that a rule was broken against me, I should report it. But I am receiving a lot of personal messages from people who know Hampze requesting me to close the report, and while my goal isnt to see anyone banned, as I want this server population to continue to improve, I am a bit dismayed that he has seemingly expressed that I am not willing to talk this out when he has not messaged me personally at all, despite my discord being available on my profile. I also find this barrage of messages a bit inappropriate. Perhaps this is normal in reports? As Im rarely involved in them, I do not know. If staff could weigh in on that, I would appreciate it. 

*edit to add, Hampze reached out to me as I typed this up. My above point still stands though, he did send several people my way to convince me to take the report down, and I have to say, to put it colorfully,  it felt a bit like a mob shakedown. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by edgy BeanMama

[BeanMama]

Alright, sorry for the spam. 

I have talked with hampze a bit, and considering his perspective I dont particularly feel any malice toward him. He was caught out and I was caught out, and he was a little too itchy on the trigger, but hopefully we will both do a better job being the odd man out in the woods next time.

If the staff see anything that they wish to further investigate, let me know.
But I personally would not mind closing this report. Thanks everyone for your time and sorry I slept in. 

[Duplessis]

After discussion, staff team has decided to go against the wishes of the OP and will be keeping this report open.

[Duplessis]

VERDICT

@edgy BeanMama | Ruleplay - GUILTY
@Hampze | Invalid Kill - Inconclusive

SUMMARY

While in Zelenogorsk with a few friends, @edgy BeanMama hears that there is an attacker at Green Mountain. She and her allies head up to the mountain. The OP then breaks off with her rifle as she feels she is not good at close quarters combat. Around this time, @Hampze, one of the attackers, comes across her in the forest and kills her. Her body is then found by her allies a short while later.

REASON

Invalid Kill | This has been found inconclusive due to the conflicting points of view. While the OP insists that she was not initiated on, @Hampze insists that he did initiate. Due to the lack of video evidence, we cannot conclusively prove the guilt or innocence of the accused.

Ruleplay | As for the ruleplay, @edgy BeanMama, you were knowingly going into an active firefight area with the intention of assisting one side of the firefight. You were then killed by one of the participants of the firefight. In this scenario you were actively attempting to use the rules to your advantage, because the people you were going to fight technically did not have rights on you. Abusing the rules in this way in order to provide an advantage to yourself is prohibited, and is considered textbook ruleplay. In future, you should go up to the compound and initiate before breaking off to provide sniper assistance. 

OUTCOME

@edgy BeanMama | Ruleplay - 5 day ban, 10 warning points.
@Hampze | Invalid Kill - no action taken.

Signed by @Duplessis, @Zanaan & @Bryan