We are allowing Racism now?

[Ryan Shepherd]

For those that missed it, I posted the following feedback on Kamenici's group page:

Spoiler

The feedback I am about to leave is relating to Kamenici in an out of character sense.

The relationship between both Kamenici and S-GRU had been fairly positive up until a few days ago, as most will know, both groups had a bit of an outburst towards each other on the forums mostly banter that turned sour, but hey these things happen with opposing groups that for so long had positive relationships outside of in game, I believe we solved it afterwards, or so I thought.

It is so sad and disappointing to see this group actually resort to Racism, in the public discord of DayZRP.

So last night, I was told to go look at #offtopic in discord, what I saw was a video titled 'SGRU' posted by @groovy chernon, the video was a series of animated crying emojis, 10 or so of this group reacted with milk bottles and baby emotes, which is fine, you can call us babies for some reason if that is what humour is these days, I don't mind that, this just gives context to what followed.

Directly after, @APTerminator posted a video link, the video was titled 'Fuck Fenians', while the rest of this group reacted with British flags, knives and a christian cross. For those of you who do not know, the term 'Fenian' was a term used to describe someone that was a member of the Irish Republican Brotherhood, @APTerminator and I had a discussion a couple days prior, so I guess this is what became of it. I don't mind that either but again, leading to context.

What came next was despicable Racism that I am so disappointing to see coming from someone who had just returned from Final Warning 2 weeks ago and I am honestly shocked that what I thought was a pretty chill guy, could post such a childish racist thing towards a member of S-GRU, @TurkRP, who is Turkish for anyone that does not know.

@groovy cali posted the following video:

Spoiler

The video is a meme video regarding migrants entering a country with a mix up of a song replaying 'and they don't stop coming' and a serious of clips of Migrants entering countries in large groups. @TurkRP was @'d in the discord but it was removed, so it was to bring his attention to what was posted.

@APTerminator also decided to join in the posted a link to the following too:

Spoiler

Now, we're all for jokes, fishing and memes but the fact the group resorted to unprovoked Racism towards a member of S-GRU in the public DayZRP discord, even worse unprovoked and out of the blue, I think is disgusting, did you all think this was hilarious?

The fact the comments stayed up on discord for so long and even after being warned in discord to cut it out, all of the accused above remained in discord, not banned. I have been banned from Discord for less & I even received 25 warning points for posting a photo of an Irish politician that is famously rumoured to be a leader figure in the IRA some time ago, which I find down right disgraceful that staff didn't step in and defend a man against racism and remove the accused above immediately, really really disappointing. Credit to @Hofer who did put an end to it continuing in discord although.

Any respect I had for this group was lost when it resorted to such racism.

@Roland defended such a situation by snipping my post and responding with:

Apparently, none of that revolves around Kamenici as a group, yet here we are with all of the reactions to the disgraceful racism posted:

Spoiler

As you can see, it very well does relate to Kamenici as a group, the fact that this is brushed under the carpet is disgraceful.

I received 25 warning points for a photo of Gerry Adams, @Kordruga had immediately permanently banned from the community for telling his friend @Hofer to suck his cock, youknowwho got permanently banned from the community for calling someone a damn 'simp', yet this is okay and 'oh this doesnt relate to the group.' Then why hide the post immediately?

This is absolutely disgraceful and I can not believe the community is not coming down hard on racism and brushing it under the carpet as if nothing wrong has been done? Posting video's of actual turkish people being murdered in a helicopter, posting video of migrants to essentially stop coming over.

I am honestly shocked.

Is this what we are doing now??

Edited May 20, 2020 by Ryan Shepherd

[Shiro]

Posting videos of turkish people being murdered in a helicopter is a line you can't cross. I do hope for the love of all that is holy that staff will deal with this.. I am frowning upon the fact that somebody gets permanent banned for calling somebody a simp. Mabey he crossed many lines in the past  and this was the drop? I am sure there is much more to the story? 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Shiro

[Roland]

It hasn't been brushed under the carpet, an action was agreed on and done. The members who posted questionable content in Discord were warned and received warning points and punishments that the admin team voted on and agreed to. I understand you don't agree with punishment given and that in your eyes it's not severe enough, but that's not always going to be the case and I seriously doubt that this thread will accomplish anything or convince the admin team to alter punishments. Just because we don't issue a punishment as severe as you hoped for doesn't mean we're defending anything or anyone.

[Ryan Shepherd]

Just now, Roland said:

It hasn't been brushed under the carpet, an action was agreed on and done. The members who posted questionable content in Discord were warned and received warning points and punishments that the admin team voted on and agreed to. I understand you don't agree with punishment given and that in your eyes it's not severe enough, but that's not always going to be the case and I seriously doubt that this thread will accomplish anything or convince the admin team to alter punishments. Just because we don't issue a punishment as severe as you hoped for doesn't mean we're defending anything or anyone.

If so, what was the purpose of snipping the post?

[Roland]

Just now, Ryan Shepherd said:

If so, what was the purpose of snipping the post?

Just to keep the group thread clean, as your post would result in a waterfall of replies unrelated to the group as such. The rule break was committed by 3 or 4 individuals, outside of the game, unrelated to the group they represent in game. I prefer to keep group threads related to group activities and role play only and separate from any individual members rule breaks. For example I certainly don't want people posting bad group feedback because one of the groups member flamed someone or tendied.

[Truemonkh]

This is definitely a sensitive topic as such I think it's quite difficult to discuss it in a civil manner. However I will try to attempt it and add my two-sense to it.

I think this all boils down to a bit of an overreaction in my opinion that seems to stem from some personal issues about being banned for much less. I definitely agree that these things shouldn't have been posted and are at best painfully unfunny and cringey jokes and at worst blatant racism. This is not even about being provoked, racism isn't okay anyway. However finding the line here between blatant racism and a bad joke is quite difficult. To some it may seem harmless and to others, maybe @TurkRP it was quite hurtful. I'd like to know what he thinks of the subject because people getting offended over something that doesn't really concern them in the end is nothing new really. Maybe he took it in stride and can just see that things like that were posted by childish idiots that don't deserve any more attention then they are already receiving and that they should probably banned. Or maybe he got genuinely affected by this, in that case it is certainly on the people who posted that to give a proper apology to TurkRP and to receive warning points if not a ban.

Also worth mentioning is that: A few bad apples don't make the growth bad. I have personally never had the chance to RP with Kamenici. Maybe it's not all of them but I can't judge that from my perspective. All I ask of you is to not put all of them in the same pot, just those that posted those things and those that reacted poorly (that might be all/most of them I honestly can't be bothered to check).

In closing I'd just like to say that racism is a real thing in our current society and it shouldn't go unpunished because it is vial and despicable, but let's not forget that accusing someone of being racist is quite a heavy accusation and maybe it should be rethought before making a public post like this on the forums. It seems to me an outrage about something not that huge. I get that you feel unfairly treated, but I'd say that you should keep things like this in private DM's in the future. This is supposed to be a discussion forum and not a place for angry name calling.

Thanks for your attention. Keep it civil everyone.

[Ryan Shepherd]

1 minute ago, Roland said:

Just to keep the group thread clean, as your post would result in a waterfall of replies unrelated to the group as such. The rule break was committed by 3 or 4 individuals, outside of the game, unrelated to the group they represent in game. I prefer to keep group threads related to group activities and role play only and separate from any individual members rule breaks. For example I certainly don't want people posting bad group feedback because one of the groups member flamed someone or tendied.

It wasn't just one group member tho was it? It was a collective. Group pages not only represent your behaviour in game but on the forums. The fact that racism is a less than harsh warning opposed to immediate permanent bans for telling someone to 'suck their cock' or calling someone a 'simp'. Where is the common ground between Racism and name calling?

You and I both know this wasn't an act of one or two, they all reacted to it, thats a group collective thinking Racism is some sort of joke. 

[Roland]

3 minutes ago, Ryan Shepherd said:

It wasn't just one group member tho was it? It was a collective. Group pages not only represent your behaviour in game but on the forums. The fact that racism is a less than harsh warning opposed to immediate permanent bans for telling someone to 'suck their cock' or calling someone a 'simp'. Where is the common ground between Racism and name calling?

You and I both know this wasn't an act of one or two, they all reacted to it, thats a group collective thinking Racism is some sort of joke. 

I will have to disagree with that. Group pages are strictly for in game purpose, we don't create group threads or pages for friend cliques or streamer followers for example.

Whether warning is harsh enough or not is up to discussion, many people will have different opinions about it. Our decision is just like yours based on an opinion. I can't really argue or convince you to change it.

Whether people reacted to it is irrelevant in my opinion, we don't ban people for reactions, just as we don't ban people for giving BeanZ to posts that break rules and result in ban or warning points.

[rp]

1 minute ago, Roland said:

I will have to disagree with that. Group pages are strictly for in game purpose, we don't create group threads or pages for friend cliques or streamer followers for example.

Whether warning is harsh enough or not is up to discussion, many people will have different opinions about it. Our decision is just like yours based on an opinion. I can't really argue or convince you to change it.

Whether people reacted to it is irrelevant in my opinion, we don't ban people for reactions, just as we don't ban people for giving BeanZ to posts that break rules and result in ban or warning points.

So being racist gets you what ? 10 20 points ?

 

[Ryan Shepherd]

Just now, Roland said:

I will have to disagree with that. Group pages are strictly for in game purpose, we don't create group threads or pages for friend cliques or streamer followers for example.

Whether warning is harsh enough or not is up to discussion, many people will have different opinions about it. Our decision is just like yours based on an opinion. I can't really argue or convince you to change it.

Whether people reacted to it is irrelevant in my opinion, we don't ban people for reactions, just as we don't ban people for giving BeanZ to posts that break rules and result in ban or warning points.

I am not telling you to enact bans on reactions, that's absurd, I am challenging you saying 'This is just the act of one or two not the group.' Which is false. 

You are representing your group out of character as much as in character, what you do and say reflects on the group, thats my opinion, which is actually pretty irrelevant to what's going on here.

Its great to see this rule is pretty much irrelevant and it worth the same amount of points as calling someone a non racist name.

 

[Roland]

Just now, TurkRP said:

So being racist gets you what ? 10 20 points ?

From my experience anywhere between 10 and 30 points depending on severity and who is making the call.

[Ryan Shepherd]

Just now, Roland said:

From my experience anywhere between 10 and 30 points depending on severity and who is making the call.

Define severity?

[Kordruga]

Racism = bad

Posting a liveleak video of people literally being blown up with a rocket launcher = bad

Me = good

Why can't we all be good? Peace & love  

[S.Bradley]

Just my personal as I'm not staff but since it was directed at another member of the community the punishment should be very severe. Now on the same note if the member who it was directed at didn't care or took it in good faith the punishment should not be as bad, still, punishment should be handed but not as severe. This just needs to be case by case like it normally is with everything else with basic guidelines for staff.

10-20 points if the person wasn't offended and didn't take offense (as racism is banned points still need to be given)

30 points if they took offense and it was considered harmful 

Spoiler

 

[Truemonkh]

10 minutes ago, S.Bradley said:

Just my personal as I'm not staff but since it was directed at another member of the community the punishment should be very severe. Now on the same note if the member who it was directed at didn't care or took it in good faith the punishment should not be as bad, still, punishment should be handed but not as severe. This just needs to be case by case like it normally is with everything else with basic guidelines for staff.

10-20 points if the person wasn't offended and didn't take offense (as racism is banned points still need to be given)

30 points if they took offense and it was considered harmful 

  Hide contents

 

I totally agree with this sentiment!

[Guest Generic Name]

Kind of disgusted at how poorly this is being handled honestly.

[SynO]

10 minutes ago, OldSchool said:

Kind of disgusted at how poorly this is being handled honestly.

I agree if i'm being honest

[Finn]

Gosh this place is really turning into a cesspool of toxicity.

 

Sadface

[Golaneth]

1 hour ago, Ryan Shepherd said:

Define severity?

Things like, are they harassing somebody calling them a, n*****, g***, c****, s****, w******, h*****, c*****, when in compared to, "heheh. White people love incest", I'd imagine. 

Interesting post and comments.. I can see the OP posting it about Keminichi, and not just a few individuals as people involved with a group, more often than not, know the kind of humor and may indulge in such comedy or commentary themselves. But, then again I think that'd make a, "guilty by association", kind of thing and that'll get dicey real quick. 

4 minutes ago, Finn said:

Gosh this place is really turning into a cesspool of toxicity.

 

Sadface

That's just online community man. I was honestly surprised there would even be a forum as I think that'll just ramp it up 10 fold. 

[Finn]

6 minutes ago, Golaneth said:

That's just online community man. I was honestly surprised there would even be a forum as I think that'll just ramp it up 10 fold. 

It hasn't always been like this here, I've been a part of this community since 2014.

[Golaneth]

Just now, Finn said:

It hasn't always been like this here, I've been a part of this community since 2014.

Eh. I've seen some youtube videos about the server, I think toxicity has always been there but maybe not as overtly. Every community has a shelf life, in my experience things start bubbling to the surface eventually. I don't think people are poisoning the water here, I think you're just coming across things you haven't before. I find it hard to believe a community like this hasn't had its fair share of controversy in the past with people, though it might've stayed a lot quieter. The only people that'd know for sure would be those involved. 

I'm still new, but I'd say this isn't a bad community. I've seen things a lot worse than this. 

[Descendants]

43 minutes ago, Golaneth said:

Eh. I've seen some youtube videos about the server, I think toxicity has always been there but maybe not as overtly. Every community has a shelf life, in my experience things start bubbling to the surface eventually. I don't think people are poisoning the water here, I think you're just coming across things you haven't before. I find it hard to believe a community like this hasn't had its fair share of controversy in the past with people, though it might've stayed a lot quieter. The only people that'd know for sure would be those involved. 

I'm still new, but I'd say this isn't a bad community. I've seen things a lot worse than this. 

You obviously weren't here in 2017... It sucks that certain people get smacked with a ban hammer for seemingly nothing, while others get a slap on the wrist for posting extremely offensive stuff towards another member.

As stated here though, everything is up for staff interpretation. So its really just up to how others perceive what is said/done\

[Golaneth]

1 minute ago, Descendants said:

You obviously weren't here in 2017... It sucks that certain people get smacked with a ban hammer for seemingly nothing, while others get a slap on the wrist for posting extremely offensive stuff towards another member.

I said I was new and well, that proves my point about past controversy. Though, that was three years ago, does that still occur? I agree it's a shame, and I've seen that kind of thing happen in the past as well. The only real difference I see between communities is difference in theme, and competency, and willingness for change. You were there so you know things I don't, can you explain your point?

[Apollo]

Am not surpised to see dayzrp filled with closeted racists

isnt this the case every other year? the same group of people gimme zbor vibes and we know how they truly felt about the white race 

also i got permd for calling someone coco the ape not dropping a hard r but these dudes post clips that are clearly racist and get nothing done to them goodjob @rolle

Edited May 20, 2020 by Apollo

[Descendants]

1 minute ago, Golaneth said:

I said I was new and well, that proves my point about past controversy. Though, that was three years ago, does that still occur? I agree it's a shame, and I've seen that kind of thing happen in the past as well. The only real difference I see between communities is difference in theme, and competency, and willingness for change. You were there so you know things I don't, can you explain your point?

Can't really go into too much detail without getting banned myself. but tl;dr, over 100 people got banned for acting like children