Change to rule 3.4 (not the part you think)

[GG Boys]

So rule 3.4 which is most comply known as New life rule, now I’m not here to change the part about returning to your previous location I think that side of it’s fine. What i do find curious about the rule is the first part about remembering the events leading up to your death and what caused your death.

 

do you think you should be allowed to remember what caused your death on rather “death”

 

I think it’s quite awkward sometimes when it comes to this when you run into someone in game who killed you a few days ago. Then they start talking shit about how they “dumpstered” and “shit” on you in that gunfight a few days ago but since you died you just kinda stand there like “oh I don’t remember that but that kinda lines up when I blacked out” 

 

maybe I’m not creative enough to respond to people that talk to me like this in game when situations like this occur but it just makes the situation awkward to have to act like you got no idea what they are talking about.

 

-snipped for wrong info-
 

also it’s nice to have people “forget” when you want to have something done but also escape the repercussions that you would have if they remember.

 

im either way in this but if this was changed so that people could remember the events that caused their deaths then we would probably have to change how execution rights work. 
 

what do you think should it be changed so that you can remember the events that lead to your “death” or no?

Edited March 2, 2020 by Masonn

[AndreyQ]

Just say you got shot and don't remember anything.

3 minutes ago, Masonn said:

I know that if you hold someone up and don’t kill them they then have execution rights on you.

Idk where you got this from but it ain't the case.

[Bear]

Since none of us actually "die" (unless the mods deem otherwise, or we choose to perma our characters ourselves) I've never understood not remembering your death. 

 

I actually think all "deaths" should be restructured as "major injuries". 

I think it would make so much more sense if our characters remembered why they were hurt, who hurt them and what caused it, this doesn't always mean the character you play would go on a revenge arc, in fact it might make them scared to act a certain way with certain people again, or it might make them play the long game and develop a plot to get some sort of pay back, 

All in all it should create a vehicle to provide more RP, although if it was abused as a way to just constsntly kill someone or attack a group because if because of them "injuring" you then it would become a problem. 

 

I don't think not remembering your "death/major injury" makes any sense and I think it restricts rp if anything,  it has the potential to create story arcs. 

 

Though I'm willing for someone to explain why it's a good thing too. 

[PublicVoodoo]

No I don't think you should be allowed to remember the event leading to your death. It will just end up in a loop where actions don't mean anything and people will rather not comply than to actually comply in order to gain information.

If you are a hostile party that wants a message delivered then currently as it stands you would need to let a hostage live in order to spread the word. If it was changed to what you are suggesting then executions would become a common thing or firefights or even just a bad mouthing RP session because the hostage knows he can get out of it get killed and remember it all.

[GG Boys]

2 minutes ago, AndreyQ said:

Just say you got shot and don't remember anything.

Idk where you got this from but it ain't the case.

Ahh! Mis information. I corrected it thank you.

[RiZ]

3 minutes ago, Voodoo said:

No I don't think you should be allowed to remember the event leading to your death. It will just end up in a loop where actions don't mean anything and people will rather not comply than to actually comply in order to gain information.

If you are a hostile party that wants a message delivered then currently as it stands you would need to let a hostage live in order to spread the word. If it was changed to what you are suggesting then executions would become a common thing or firefights or even just a bad mouthing RP session because the hostage knows he can get out of it get killed and remember it all.

I voted Yes for this very reason. If you die, you those actions literally mean nothing right now from an IC standpoint, and the reasoning behind it is that you can't remember it. There is no lesson learned in character, the roleplay ends. It makes executions pointless, and makes the roleplay preceding it null.

For example: I shit talk someone weeks on end. They kill me. I don't remember they killed me. I continue to shit talk.

[PublicVoodoo]

1 minute ago, RiZ said:

I voted Yes for this very reason. If you die, you those actions literally mean nothing right now from an IC standpoint, and the reasoning behind it is that you can't remember it. There is no lesson learned in character, the roleplay ends. It makes executions pointless, and makes the roleplay preceding it null.

For example: I shit talk someone weeks on end. They kill me. I don't remember they killed me. I continue to shit talk.

The not remembering was included due to the amount of executions being performed on the server. It meant from an RP standpoint a hostile group would need to actually RP and spare people in order to pass on their message. Before that people were lined up on the sides of roadblocks all the time 

We tried getting rid of this part in the rules just a few years ago and it did nothing different. By not being able to remember it not only means a hostile group need to consider their RP actions but also the victims side aswell, mid firefight it means you have to chose:

1. Go into the fight and die losing all info on what actually happened and being able to pass that on for future RP
2. Get out of the firefight, get away and pass on the info for the next time the group meets this group.

[RiZ]

1 minute ago, Voodoo said:

The not remembering was included due to the amount of executions being performed on the server. It meant from an RP standpoint a hostile group would need to actually RP and spare people in order to pass on their message. Before that people were lined up on the sides of roadblocks all the time 

We tried getting rid of this part in the rules just a few years ago and it did nothing different. By not being able to remember it not only means a hostile group need to consider their RP actions but also the victims side aswell, mid firefight it means you have to chose:

1. Go into the fight and die losing all info on what actually happened and being able to pass that on for future RP
2. Get out of the firefight, get away and pass on the info for the next time the group meets this group.

Makes sense. Good explanation. Thanks for clarifying.

[Jackfish]

9 minutes ago, RiZ said:

I voted Yes for this very reason. If you die, you those actions literally mean nothing right now from an IC standpoint, and the reasoning behind it is that you can't remember it. There is no lesson learned in character, the roleplay ends. It makes executions pointless, and makes the roleplay preceding it null.

For example: I shit talk someone weeks on end. They kill me. I don't remember they killed me. I continue to shit talk.

Maybe perma your character then. Never get it when people shit talk others, then get killed by the people they shit talked and then just continue to shit talk?

If you are a big boy you win your fights or lose and kill your char. If you are not then dont shit talk in the first place. (on the radio atleast, always appreciate a bit of banter ingame)

[neom]

Mason is this a serious thread or you just having some banter coz this really is a bit of an odd one. 

“oh your the guys that killed me” 

PEW PEW 

and then 

“oh your the guys that killed me for killing you”

PEW PEW 

 

Would ruin all RP and we are on an RP server ain’t we 

[RiZ]

1 minute ago, Jackfish said:

Maybe perma your character then. Never get it when people shit talk others, then get killed by the people they shit talked and then just continue to shit talk?

If you are a big boy you win your fights or lose and kill your char. If you are not then dont shit talk in the first place. (on the radio atleast, always appreciate a bit of banter ingame)

This was directed at story building from a roleplay perspective, not PvP. The shit talking was an example. There are plenty of story arcs that can happen that don't have to end in a "permakill." Someone chosing to execute doesn't mean the person has to PK. We have rules out there for this for a reason.

[Pepsi]

I'm sorry but I will give my shortest answer without needing context as the posts above say exactly how I would mention.

 

No.

[Ron]

44 minutes ago, Masonn said:

I think it’s quite awkward sometimes when it comes to this when you run into someone in game who killed you a few days ago. Then they start talking shit about how they “dumpstered” and “shit” on you in that gunfight a few days ago but since you died you just kinda stand there like “oh I don’t remember that but that kinda lines up when I blacked out” 

If someone runs up do you saying that kind of stuff it can help you out. If your character for example has an injury caused by a bullet and someone runs up to you like "Yo, we ain't neutral, we  fucking shot so many of you yesterday" , that person is bringing up the fact you potentially got injured by them. You aren't allowed to 100% be sure but icly you'd have enough to investigate, imo. There is no need for a rule change in the scenario you mentioned.

-1.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Ron

[Roland]

I have no problem with it being either way and it's one of the few rules that are entirely up to the playerbase. Last time we did rule rewrite we had a poll and majority wanted to forget the events after death so that's why it's like that now.

The thread with the poll and all the opinions can be found here, can be read to gain a context why it was set to forget:

 

[cjackson821]

Whatever happens, you should always put an emphasis on roleplay. Allowing people to remember events that lead to their "death" would lead to more people wanting to just shoot people to end the situation. If you want people to remember things, then leave them alive. Shoot them in the leg and make them limp back to their friends. Also, it would lead to a never ending cycle of revenge RP, which in my opinion isn't story line creative when people are just killing each other back and forth all day. Create a dialog and create stories, not death wheels. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by cjackson821

[GG Boys]

28 minutes ago, Ron said:

If someone runs up do you saying that kind of stuff it can help you out. If your character for example has an injury caused by a bullet and someone runs up to you like "Yo, we ain't neutral, we  fucking shot so many of you yesterday" , that person is bringing up the fact you potentially got injured by them. You aren't allowed to 100% be sure but icly you'd have enough to investigate, imo. There is no need for a rule change in the scenario you mentioned.

-1.

This actually is very good. Thank you and I personally will make sure to take this into account. I’ve always been one to rather find out definitely IC wise from a trusted source for character sake (such as a close ally or friend) Cause it doesn’t make much sense to just out right believe something a random person tells you. (using random lightly here)

I just find myself In situations where I have been “shot” aka died and have had awkward situations since I can’t remember it, just makes for awkward situations. And it’s weird for someone to tell you all about something and you simply can’t respond since you don’t remember.

[Beanblanket]

I dont think you should forget everything leading up to your death. Maybe a time limit. Forget the last 30 minutes of your life. Something like that. It just doesnt make sense, if a group of players plan out a raid or a hostage scenario, and then they just have no idea that that was going on if something happens to them. The 30 minute idea would basically represent a small memory blank due to extreme trauma. which would leave you the opportunity to fill in those blanks on your own, as previous posts have described. 

[Ron]

16 minutes ago, Masonn said:

I just find myself In situations where I have been “shot” aka died and have had awkward situations since I can’t remember it, just makes for awkward situations. And it’s weird for someone to tell you all about something and you simply can’t respond since you don’t remember.

If I kill your character (not a gun fight in particular) and I ic assume you are dead but then I meet you again and chill on the fact that you cannot remember what happened - would also be pretty poor rp from my position, maybe even rule play depending on the situation, imo. 

I know what you mean, it can get awkward.Seeing the amount of gun fights we have compared with how many people actually kill their character off - gives Chernarus / now Livonia an unrealistic rate of survival. It always depends on what both parties create out of a situation. It starts with group members being relieved that friends did not die in a fight or friends being assumed dead but survive their injury, to enemies acting surprised that they might not be such a good shot and their victim survived a bullet. There is plenty of options. Also for you to say that medics gave you the good stuff after you caught a bullet or if you meet someone who big dicks you for winning a gun fight - icly act like they are lying/ trying to act like someone you icly assume they are not.

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Ron

[GreenySmiley]

1.  If you got killed and your murderers had execution rights, with your death the situation has ended and they can't kill you for it again. I would even recommend to forget the whole reason why they had execution rights in the first place on both sides. Considering you can't be executed for the same thing twice and rp would just keep going in a senseless circle if you keep getting hated for something after you got killed for it. 

2.  If you get killed in a firefight it seems remembering might just keep causing more never ending fights... cause then revenge firefights would just keep going back and forth.

3.  If you get killed by accident and you wish to continue the RP (accidentally killed during torture, or ran in the way of an infected and your ally shoot you but you don't wish to perma) and everyone that saw you die, wishes to also continue the RP, you should totally be allowed to remember. 

 

Points 1 and 2  definitely forget the memory, Preferably everyone forget it if it was to end a situation.

Point 3 remember but you can probably talk that out with the people anyways no need to change the rule for that.