S2: Livonia [Metagame/NLR/KOS/Lying in Report/Ruleplay]

[Nyx]

Server and location: S1 Livonia | Sitnik/Soup Kitchen

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME): Approx. 2:50 Server time

Your in game name: Phoenyxx Caine 

Names of allies involved: N/A

Name of suspect/s: Unsure

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any): 

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): https://clips.twitch.tv/LazyCrepuscularEelCharlieBitM

Detailed description of the events: 

STAFF PLEASE ONLY FOCUS ON THE KILL ON ME, THE REST OF THE CLUSTER FIREFIGHT BEFORE IS PERFECTLY VALID YOU DO NOT NEED TO PULL LOGS FOR THIS.

We just finished an intense battle with 5.0.3. I was trying to make sure the civilians in camp were okay, and then cleaning up the bodies around camp because god there was a lot... 
I walked out of the cabin and was blasted down for what I believe is no reason. I spoke to @Masonn asking if it was one of his boys left over. He confirmed there was no one left fighting. 
So this means that I was invalidly killed or potentially metagamed from Corporation for the kill as they would have had 'technically' had rights but there was no way they would have been able to identify that it was Wolfpack that attacked, and I wasn't even technically present for the shooting cause I left the area and returned after. 
 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2020 by PhoenyxxRP

[Conor]

Kill Logs:

Spoiler

03:05:11 | Player "Phoenyxx Caine" (DEAD) (pos=<11372.4, 10063.7, 171.3>) killed by Player "Mark Relish" (pos=<11367.9, 10066.5, 171.3>) with AKM from 5.24861 meters
03:05:12 | Player "Mark Relish" (DEAD) (pos=<11369.8, 10065, 171.3>) killed by Player "Vale Partick Sinclaire" (pos=<11370.4, 10058.1, 171.4>) with UMP-45 from 6.96548 meters

 

Hit Logs:

Spoiler

03:05:09 | Player "Phoenyxx Caine" (pos=<11370.1, 10066.7, 171.3>) hit by Player "Mark Relish" (pos=<11365.3, 10068.1, 171.3>) with AKM from 5.02675 meters
03:05:10 | Player "Phoenyxx Caine" (pos=<11370.2, 10066.4, 171.3>) hit by Player "Mark Relish" (pos=<11365.4, 10068.1, 171.3>) with AKM from 5.12671 meters
03:05:10 | Player "Phoenyxx Caine" (pos=<11371.4, 10065.1, 171.5>) hit by Player "Mark Relish" (pos=<11366.3, 10067.7, 171.3>) with AKM from 5.72644 meters
03:05:11 | Player "Phoenyxx Caine" (pos=<11372, 10064.2, 171.3>) hit by Player "Mark Relish" (pos=<11367.3, 10067, 171.3>) with AKM from 5.45525 meters
03:05:11 | Player "Phoenyxx Caine" (pos=<11372, 10064.2, 171.3>) hit by Player "Mark Relish" (pos=<11367.3, 10067, 171.3>) with AKM from 5.45525 meters
03:05:11 | Player "Phoenyxx Caine" (pos=<11372.4, 10063.7, 171.3>) hit by Player "Mark Relish" (pos=<11367.9, 10066.5, 171.3>) with AKM from 5.24861 meters
03:05:11 | Player "Mark Relish" (pos=<11368.5, 10065.8, 171.3>) hit by Player "Vale Partick Sinclaire" (pos=<11370.3, 10058, 171.4>) with UMP-45 from 7.94833 meters
03:05:12 | Player "Mark Relish" (pos=<11369.8, 10065, 171.3>) hit by Player "Vale Partick Sinclaire" (pos=<11370.4, 10058.1, 171.4>) with UMP-45 from 6.96548 meters
03:05:12 | Player "Mark Relish" (pos=<11370.2, 10065.1, 171.3>) hit by Player "Cody Baton" (pos=<11371.9, 10057.9, 171.4>) with AK-74 from 7.35187 meters
03:05:13 | Player "Mark Relish" (pos=<11370.2, 10065.1, 171.3>) hit by Player "Cody Baton" (pos=<11372.1, 10057.7, 171.4>) with AK-74 from 7.60882 meters
03:05:13 | Player "Mark Relish" (pos=<11370.2, 10065.1, 171.3>) hit by Player "Cody Baton" (pos=<11372.1, 10057.7, 171.4>) with AK-74 from 7.60882 meters
03:05:13 | Player "Mark Relish" (pos=<11370.2, 10065.1, 171.3>) hit by Player "Vale Partick Sinclaire" (pos=<11370.8, 10058.1, 171.4>) with UMP-45 from 6.996 meters
03:05:13 | Player "Mark Relish" (pos=<11370.2, 10065.6, 171.3>) hit by Player "Cody Baton" (pos=<11372.3, 10057.4, 171.4>) with AK-74 from 8.43987 meters
03:05:13 | Player "Mark Relish" (pos=<11370.2, 10066.3, 171.3>) hit by Player "Cody Baton" (pos=<11372.3, 10057.9, 171.4>) with AK-74 from 8.6999 meters
03:05:13 | Player "Mark Relish" (pos=<11370.2, 10066.3, 171.3>) hit by Player "Cody Baton" (pos=<11372.3, 10057.9, 171.4>) with AK-74 from 8.6999 meters
03:05:14 | Player "Mark Relish" (pos=<11370.4, 10066.9, 171.3>) hit by Player "Vale Partick Sinclaire" (pos=<11371.2, 10058.2, 171.4>) with UMP-45 from 8.77835 meters
03:05:15 | Player "Mark Relish" (pos=<11370.5, 10067.1, 171.3>) hit by Player "Vale Partick Sinclaire" (pos=<11371.2, 10058.2, 171.4>) with UMP-45 from 8.9397 meters
03:05:15 | Player "Mark Relish" (pos=<11370.5, 10067.1, 171.3>) hit by Player "Vale Partick Sinclaire" (pos=<11371.2, 10058.2, 171.4>) with UMP-45 from 8.9397 meters

 

Connection Logs:

Spoiler

22:59:31 | Player "Phoenyxx Caine" is connected
23:54:44 | Player "Phoenyxx Caine" has been disconnected
23:58:27 | Player "Phoenyxx Caine" is connected
03:05:59 | Player "Phoenyxx Caine" has been disconnected -DEAD-

02:27:00 | Player "Mark Relish" is connected
03:01:33 | Player "Mark Relish" has been disconnected
03:01:44 | Player "Mark Relish" is connected
03:10:14 | Player "Mark Relish" has been disconnected -DEAD-

01:26:53 | Player "Vale Partick Sinclaire" is connected

04:06:20 | Player "Vale Partick Sinclaire" has been disconnected
05:15:11 | Player "Vale Partick Sinclaire" is connected 

02:02:51 | Player "Cody Baton" is connected

04:02:46 | Player "Cody Baton" has been disconnected
05:17:14 | Player "Cody Baton" is connected 

 

---

Calling in the following people for their point of view as well as any un-edited video evidence they may have.

@PhoenyxxRP - Phoenyxx Caine - OP

@YaBoiChuck - Mark Relish - POSTED

@Vyces - Vale Partick Sinclaire - POSTED

@Cody Baton - Cody Baton - POSTED

 

[Cody Baton]

So as Phoenyxx said there was huge cluster fuck with the 5.0.3. All of the 5.0.3 were presumably dead and had been for about 10-15 minutes. After us sorting through all of the dead bodies a man walks out of the crowd steps up towards Phoenyxx and shoots her. Immediately me and one of my boys @Vyces spray him down for killing Phoenyxx as we were involved with the 5.0.3 situation prior.

[Nyx]

So this will definitely be a metagame accusation and potentially invalid kill and NVFL

There's a few things I'd like to now ask staff to gather. 
Can we get the logs of the corporation fight, @ViperTCA from my group did down one member from Corporation when we want to raid their base.

I'd like to request position logs of all present Corporation members.

The reasoning for this is that, after being inside the base I received this message from @YaBoiChuck

https://gyazo.com/acd0f89e8503def90bbc0c9548162067

This was in direct response to me saying in stream: "Oh they don't have a lot of stuff". He messaged me this and thus it means he was watching my stream directly. I am now being told apparently that there was someone still alive on the roof of the corporation base that heard this? But not sure why Chuck chose to message me if it was indeed heard in game. So I believe he was watching my stream. His log in also doesn't add up because it had been well over an hour that we had been at the corporation base so he was not ONLINE nor PRESENT for the raid on corporation. On top of that, Im not sure how they knew it was wolfpack as we didn't announce ourselves as such and there were others there.

To also add, i ran to the corporation base, and they began to start to break in, i ran away to get more hacksaws. During this time, someone aimed a weapon at the Joyces trying to break in so they killed him, thus another person present was then killed by one of my members @ViperTCA

So the question is, was @YaBoiChuck present for what happened at the corporation base? How did he know where to find me and follow me around like a lost puppy at soup kitchen? Why did he NVFL in front of tons of my allies as he just witnessed us kill 5.0.3. I had at least 3/4 allies present as well as others that would defend me as @Cody Baton did. He chose me out of everyone and other wolfpack members present to spray down without saying a word to me. 

I believe he was stream sniping due to his message to me right after i mentioned the little items in their base thing. Ontop of that, how does he gain rights if he logged in after a fight had occurred? Like im pretty sure we finished up at the corporation base almost 30 minutes prior to his connection. So how does he gain rights for an event he was not apart of? If so, its pretty poor roleplay to just walk up and blast someone in the face for something that happened 1.5 hrs before and ruleplay really. 
 

[Vyces]

My POV is similar to @Cody Baton. He and I came to Soup Kitchen after hearing ALOT of shots. We entered the camp quietly with hands raised and after @Cody Baton initiated contact with @PhoenyxxRP, informing her that we were here to assist her before proceeding to calm down the current residents of the local area that were present as well as policing and keeping guard. It was as we were policing and keeping guard while the situation and current bodies were checked and cleared that @YaBoiChuck walked towards her, drew a gun, and gunned her down point blank. As soon as he drew his gun and fired, @Cody Baton retaliated in defense of @PhoenyxxRP as well as the other current soup kitchen patrons.

 

No screenshots or recordings available

[YaBoiChuck]

Ok! here is my perspective of the actions leading to this.       

Also I would like to say i'm sorry for any wrong doing before hand

This started at the Corporation base when I was informed of a group potentially coming to raid, I was on a supply run and returned to the base and was on high alert until some people had shown up, I informed the group that people with green armbands and specifically Phoenyxx was there since I recognized the voice and iconic pink backpack. With this another operator came on known as Dr. Frederick Kepler to come help defend if worst came to worst. Once he was positioned on the roof I tried to gain access to the 2nd floor but was killed as I entered a room with open windows, I was silent and waiting to hear what would happen with the other operator as he relayed information to the group, once they broke a barrier through a window by methods of stacking upon one another they made entry and proceeded towards the supply room. For the meta-gaming it can be heard on the stream VOD that they said there is no items and this was worthless raid, this was heard in-game by our op on the roof relaying this information back to us. I had only recently learned just before I killed her that she was streaming and even a streamer since i'm new to the server and I dont browse twitch ever.

Shortly after they had left I had logged onto another character since I knew that one was on a NLR timer... THIS is where I got confused, Chuck Zielinski was killed during the raid but I let them know after my 2nd character got killed and then only until way after they informed me that I broke NLR since on the rules it doesn't state that switching characters after death and being put back into a situation (as I was still in the corp on this character) is still against NLR rules and they would have advised me to hand the gun to someone else to carry on with this procedure. Back to the story, we had multiple informants in an around Sitnik area including one in soup kitchen that had witnessed Phoenyxx and the posse coming back to soup with the car tent they had received from our base, we all formulated to attack and had gathered 3 others into soup kitchen before I had arrived, upon arrival I scavenged for some weapons and ran around attempting to locate and confirm my target, once I did I pulled my weapon and opened fire. This is the end of that but;

I admit now that I have reviewed upon my actions that I did break the NLR rules due to a misinterpretation of the rules regarding NLR and I am very sorry for my actions that come from this as I still am a very new player. 

I am willing to accept the consequences for my actions and will strive to never make them again

I still stand by the fact that nothing was metagamed in this scenario.

 

In addition you can see where I was confused on the rules as to my knowledge it doesnt inform me of switching to a second character

"3.4 When your character dies you lose all memories from the situation that lead to your death. You may not return to the general location where you died for at least 1 hour after your death. You also cannot get involved in the same situation that lead to your death, even if it has moved to a different location or 1 hour has passed. Situation is considered the same as long as any side has active kill rights. Server restarts, crashes, game glitches or any other circumstances do not affect these restrictions or time limit. This is known as "New Life Rule" (NLR)."

Edited February 28, 2020 by YaBoiChuck

[Nyx]

Okay so gunna need to break this down a little more because… theres a lot to point out here so staff please bare with me as I analayze his POV thoroughly.
Also there's no need to pull position logs from the corporation fight as he admitted to it all here, so you can just pull his death if need be saves you some trouble @staff 

9 hours ago, YaBoiChuck said:

This started at the Corporation base when I was informed of a group potentially coming to raid

Can I ask where you got this information at? We kept it lowkey and only to us and the others joining us on the raid. So this again, leads me to believe your group is metagaming. I had several familiar names in my viewer list but I give you guys the benefit of the doubt and I don't screenshot my viewers at all, plus people can easily watch incognito etc so.
 

9 hours ago, YaBoiChuck said:

specifically Phoenyxx was there since I recognized the voice and iconic pink backpack

So you admit to calling in about us? However, you were inside the gym of the school where there was literally no windows. There is no way for you to see outside of those windows to see where I was and what I was wearing. On top of that, you are very new to the server, tuesday being the day you created your first character and thus joined the game for the first time likely that day. Tuesday was the day that I interacted with Corporation, you joined Corporation on Wednesday as seen by waiving your rights to KOS reports. My last verbal interaction with Corporation was Saturday evening. Meaning there is NO WAY you know who I am. You had not even joined the server as you can do so without making a character which was created on tuesday.

Screenshots for reference staff:
 https://gyazo.com/b0e08e421164934a504b36044d1663b5 character creations
https://gyazo.com/367311d26d3cffd3b094791fed3c39c7 Signing off his KOS waiver for officially joining corporation

VOD of the day we went and attacked Corporation: Saturday: 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/556334528

 Timestamp around: 4:54 so staff can see that I also am not wearing what he says is ICONIC in the next little bit. 

Thus you have NO idea who I am without metagaming who I am. When I approached the school, all I said was "Whats your operator name" and then we proceeded to say hey can you let us in, we are sick. You said you would have to check with other group members and then you went silent.

At 2:40 of the follow vod is when I approach and make contact with you in the gym. Where again, you cannot see out of the gym. You then go on to say you will contact some of them. I then have now run off away from the school to go get hacksaws. Never having a line of site with you.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/558868205

Which leads me to the next statement:

9 hours ago, YaBoiChuck said:

I informed the group that people with green armbands and specifically Phoenyxx was there since I recognized the voice and iconic pink backpack.

So how did you see our armbands? Ontop of that the 'iconic pink backpack' is absolutely crazy because I have never worn one of these ever, as seen in the vod provided by riz, i was wearing a white backpack on saturday my last verbal interaction with corporation. I also again, never made any line of sight with you and there was no way for you to have seen what I was wearing. 

So I believe this was all METAGAMED information. Ontop of you now Lying in a Report.

9 hours ago, YaBoiChuck said:

With this another operator came on known as Dr. Frederick Kepler to come help defend if worst came to worst. Once he was positioned on the roof I tried to gain access to the 2nd floor but was killed as I entered a room with open windows, I was silent and waiting to hear what would happen with the other operator as he relayed information to the group, once they broke a barrier through a window by methods of stacking upon one another they made entry and proceeded towards the supply room. For the meta-gaming it can be heard on the stream VOD that they said there is no items and this was worthless raid, this was heard in-game by our op on the roof relaying this information back to us.

Okay so before people even breached into the school from what I understand as I was not present but in comms, both you and the one you claim to be on the roof were killed, therefore there is no way for you to have heard such a comment, on top of that why out of everyone present did you choose to message ME (staff refer to my post after LOGS were posted) instead who wasn't even there until after the fact. The worthless raid comment was also made AFTER both corporation members were killed and died. Therefore again, only being able to be heard through stream thus METAGAME

Unless you can provide the username of the person that was apparently still alive, as that what I've been told by your members messaging me is that someone was alive the entire time we were looting and raiding and on the roof, even though we cleared the roof and had people on the roof... which they didn't see anyone besides the dead body.
 

9 hours ago, YaBoiChuck said:

Shortly after they had left I had logged onto another character since I knew that one was on a NLR timer... THIS is where I got confused, Chuck Zielinski was killed during the raid but I let them know after my 2nd character got killed and then only until way after they informed me that I broke NLR since on the rules it doesn't state that switching characters after death and being put back into a situation (as I was still in the corp on this character) is still against NLR rules and they would have advised me to hand the gun to someone else to carry on with this procedure. Back to the story, we had multiple informants in an around Sitnik area including one in soup kitchen that had witnessed Phoenyxx and the posse coming back to soup with the car tent they had received from our base, we all formulated to attack and had gathered 3 others into soup kitchen before I had arrived, upon arrival I scavenged for some weapons and ran around attempting to locate and confirm my target, once I did I pulled my weapon and opened fire. This is the end of that but;

I admit now that I have reviewed upon my actions that I did break the NLR rules due to a misinterpretation of the rules regarding NLR and I am very sorry for my actions that come from this as I still am a very new player. 

I am willing to accept the consequences for my actions and will strive to never make them again

I still stand by the fact that nothing was metagamed in this scenario.

In addition you can see where I was confused on the rules as to my knowledge it doesnt inform me of switching to a second character

"3.4 When your character dies you lose all memories from the situation that lead to your death. You may not return to the general location where you died for at least 1 hour after your death. You also cannot get involved in the same situation that lead to your death, even if it has moved to a different location or 1 hour has passed. Situation is considered the same as long as any side has active kill rights. Server restarts, crashes, game glitches or any other circumstances do not affect these restrictions or time limit. This is known as "New Life Rule" (NLR)."

Who were your informants that seen us carrying stuff? Because we never said where we got the stuff and on top of that, the two operators (yourself and the guy on the roof) were killed and had not radio'd anyone out loud about the raid, plus you wouldn't have had nor would your informants have had ANY idea what we took from the base. I could have easily found that car tent on the side of the road. Thus, again brings up the question of METAGAME

So you also admit to NLR having died in the fight and returned, I'm not sure what the timer was like but to me your admission seems to be a mix of admitting to NLR and Metagame as you cannot carry information from one character to the other and as seen in my vod from last night, you followed me around a bit and knew exactly who I apparently was. Right off the bat. On top of that, I feel like this is also a clear Ruleplay incident. It had been approx. 1.5 hrs after the incident at the base and you chose to use your rights without any regards of roleplay, at a time where it was vunerable as you just witnessed us get attacked by 5.0.3 on top of that again, there were other Wolfpack members present who were at the raid but chose to single out me which leads me to believe that you were watching my stream and using that information on where I was and what I was doing. 

This whole thing seems like it was Revenge RDM/KOS (gained no rights to kill me as he died in the event therefore makes it KOS) for his death at the Corporation Base. One of his group members even watching my stream at the time of the kill and clipping my death labeling it as 'Phoenyxx JFK'. 

So now going forward I am officially reporting for:
- Metagame
- NLR
- Lying in a report
- Ruleplay
- KOS

Edited February 28, 2020 by PhoenyxxRP

[YaBoiChuck]

As it stands now I have left my perspective on the situation and will not further elaborate unless requested by staff as this is being dragged on with you going after me because I made an honest mistake trying to pile everything you can on me. I admitted my fault in the NLR as I did not realise but declined on all else.

[Elmo]

@YaBoiChuck you stated that you had informants telling you where @PhoenyxxRP was at, as a contradiction to her accusation of stream sniping. Post the forum names of the informants here or, conversely, if you feel there is a potential for this information to be metagamed, direct message it to myself or another Game Master.

[YaBoiChuck]

Ok sorry for the late reply, im in the middle of moving to a new house. 

 

There were 3 Operators in soup kitchen before me and I know for sure 1 was there I will tell you the other 2 that I dont know if they were there when she arrived but I will message you the one that was due to his situation possibly getting metagamed

Ashley Rumsfeld

Deimos

Ill messaged you the 3rd

[Kermit]

Verdict:

@YaBoiChuck - NLR / NVFL / Invalid Kill (On Sight) - Guilty
@YaBoiChuck - Metagaming - Inconclusive

Explanation:

NLR:

The New Life Rule states the following:

Quote

You also cannot get involved in the same situation that lead to your death, even if it has moved to a different location or 1 hour has passed. Situation is considered the same as long as any side has active kill rights.

This means that the New Life Rule is not limited to just the area you died. It involves the entire situation. (as long as the killing rights still apply) It is also not just bound to the one character you have, it is bound to all the characters. In this case you did not return to your body, but you did return to the people that initially killed your other character.

NVFL:

Reviewing the video, the different PoVs and seeing the logs we see that you have broken NVFL. You tried killing a target in the Soup Kitchen whilst you were surrounded by multiple people. Trying to kill someone without having an escape or backup is seen as not valueing your character’s life. The odds of surviving a 3 vs 1 without cover are very small.

Invalid Kill (On Sight):

You have invalidly killed @PhoenyxxRP on sight. You were infiltrating their camp, upon seeing @PhoenyxxRP you decided to get your gun and shoot her down without initiation. According to the PoVs and logs you just arrived at their camp, you wander around a bit and then get your guy shoot her down and seconds later you also die. You had no killing rights on her thus making the kill invalid. There was little to no roleplay in this incident thus making it Kill on sight.

Aggravation:

We decided that we are going to aggravate the punishment. Due to the amount of rules that have been broken, the staff team has settled on an aggravation of the standard punishment. Normal procedure would take the highest punishment (being 7 day ban and 10-15 warning points), but because you have broken multiple rules we decided on changing the ban to a 10 day ban and 15 warning points.

The 10 day ban is for you to think about what you did wrong and what you could improve on. We only gave you 15 warning points to give you a little buffer in case you break another rule in the future. We did this because you are still very new to this community and perhaps not fully understand the rules. These warning points will eventually go away. (after 1 month)

Metagaming:

We did not have enough evidence to judge any metagaming going on here. It could very well be the case that @YaBoiChuckdid receive the information ICly over the radio. We will not take any actions.

Outcome:

@YaBoiChuck - NLR / NVFL / Invalid Kill (On Sight) - 10 day ban + 15 warning points + character permanently killed (Aggravated)

 

Signed: @Job, @Scarlett & @Inferno