S2 No Initiation, KOSx2

[JohnGrace]

Server and location: S2 Sitnik

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME): 2020-02-12 3:04

Your in game name:  John Grace 

Names of allies involved:  Smedly Butler ( @chief_mello ) 

Name of suspect/s: @Hollows @Grizzz @Nihoolious

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any): HMMWV 

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): 

Detailed description of the events: I was logging in as our base in Sitnik was attacked. I arrive to reinforce but by the time I arrived the fight was over. I move in to the compound to provide perimeter security while the rest of an pobal clear the compound. As I enter I see one of our guys @chief_mello walking up to our HMMWV. I run up to greet him and see there is an unknown civilian in the HMMWV. Seeing as we were under attack less han 5 min prior we tell him to get out of the vehicle and inform all civilians in the compound that everyone who is not An Pobal needs to leave the compound and come back later so we can secure the compound. Everyone agrees and talks with us while we jog to the gate. I walk up to the gate and unlock it. Basically the second it opens the civilians open fire. I raise my rifle and kill @Nihoolious, @Grizzz runs out of the compound and then I, and @chief_mello are killed by @Hollows. There was absolutely no initiation by ourselves or them. We clearly stated we were An Pobal by informing them we would have to remove anyone who is not An Pobal. @Hollows then steals our HMMWV and leaves through the open gate. In a seperate report on of them claims he thought we were with the guys that attacked sitnik and initiated on them even though we ID'd as the ones being attacked and we were not wearing the blue armbands of the people that did attack them. Either they misidentified us (Even though we made it clear who we were and what we were doing, and I clearly had to codes to open our community front gate), or they purposefuly waited for me to open the gate and then gassed us so they could take the HMMWV. 

 

***PARTIALLY INCLUDED IN A SEPARATE REPORT BUT INVOLVES DIFFERENT PEOPLE AND DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES. WILL REMOVED IF DEEMED A PART OF SAID REPORT***

[Grizzz]

Windex's POV:

Me and hollows and nihoo see a broadcast about these people taking over the compound we then head over to sitnik where we rp'd for a couple minutes until zanaan arrives, they then throw down the initiation and I was shot basically as soon as they said it and my game crashed due to my potato of a computer I thought for sure I was dead so I logged back in to being alive and being attacked by zombies. After that little situation was over and I healed up Hollows was initiated on and we were escorted  out to where we take them down and I then kill myself with a gernade due to human error of not knowing the difference between holding G and just pressing it.

My question is why did you wait a WHOLE day to post the report?

[Hollows]

50 minutes ago, JohnGrace said:

Seeing as we were under attack less han 5 min prior we tell him to get out of the vehicle and inform all civilians in the compound that everyone who is not An Pobal needs to leave the compound and come back later so we can secure the compound.... There was absolutely no initiation by ourselves or them. 

So, your telling me you 100% did not tell me to," Get out of the Humvee or you will be shot?" Am I reading this statement correct? 

Will post my PoV in a minute, wrapping up homework.

[JohnGrace]

I 100% did not say I would shoot you. I dont believe @chief_mello did either 

41 minutes ago, Grizzz said:

Windex's POV:

Me and hollows and nihoo see a broadcast about these people taking over the compound we then head over to sitnik where we rp'd for a couple minutes until zanaan arrives, they then throw down the initiation and I was shot basically as soon as they said it and my game crashed due to my potato of a computer I thought for sure I was dead so I logged back in to being alive and being attacked by zombies. After that little situation was over and I healed up Hollows was initiated on and we were escorted  out to where we take them down and I then kill myself with a gernade due to human error of not knowing the difference between holding G and just pressing it.

My question is why did you wait a WHOLE day to post the report?

Why did I wait a day? This happened right before I went to sleep, I then woke up, worked for 10 hours, got home, read the other report and decided this incident should probably have it's own report

[Hollows]

This is you, @JohnGrace initiating on me.

Charles Hackett PoV: After the firefight ended, I believed An Pobal had all been killed off when in reality they were hiding and not talking. I believed that the only surviving people of the firefight were Nihoolious, Grizz and I and the Consortium remnants, which is why I thought it would be a good idea to take the Humvee seeing how it wasn't claimed at the moment. I hop in after asking around if I can, and only after I got no answers telling me not to. So, after either being ignored or unheard I hopped in, turned the engine over and told people to please move so I can move the vehicle when @JohnGrace runs up and initiates on me, clear as day in the video. He then goes on to tell us we need to leave and believing we were wronged for being shot up in the first place, elected to use our KoS rights and kill the two people, who were of the same initiating group, as they escorted us out.

With this being said, I'd like to push for false report as well as lying in a report, as per this sentiment here as well as in this other report here and here.

27 minutes ago, JohnGrace said:

I 100% did not say I would shoot you. I dont believe @chief_mello did either 

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Hollows

[JohnGrace]

That's funny, because that's not me. Nor was I within voice range when it was said. Guess he did say it. But I couldnt have heard it.

So you just decided to ruleplay then. Oh our friends threatened us. Better murder them and steal their shit because "rp"

Convenient leaving the part out of us saying anyone who isnt an pobal needs to leave

[Hollows]

6 minutes ago, JohnGrace said:

That's funny, because that's not me. Nor was I within voice range when it was said. Guess he did say it. But I couldnt have heard it.

So you just decided to ruleplay then. Oh our friends threatened us. Better murder them and steal their shit because "rp"

Convenient leaving the part out of us saying anyone who isnt an pobal needs to leave

My shadowplay records to 15 seconds to save space, I clip a lot of kills in both Tarkov, Classic WoW PvP and other FPS games.

[chief_mello]

That was not my voice idk who that was honestly. If it was me I apologize for the misunderstanding @Hollows

[Elmo]

Connection Logs:

Spoiler

02:57:15 | Player "John Grace" is connected
-died-
05:28:04 | Player "John Grace" has been disconnected

02:57:28 | Player "Smedley Butler" is connected
-died-
03:04:35 | Player "Smedley Butler" has been disconnected

00:21:37 | Player "Charles Hackett" is connected
05:29:30 | Player "Charles Hackett" has been disconnected

01:33:21 | Player "Nicholas Mann" is connected
-died-
05:29:31 | Player "Nicholas Mann" has been disconnected

02:25:05 | Player "Windex Akunda" is connected
-died-
04:47:27 | Player "Windex Akunda" has been disconnected

Hit Logs:

Spoiler

03:04:05 | Player "John Grace" (pos=<11644.2, 9581.5, 189.8>) hit by Player "Nicholas Mann" (pos=<11645.6, 9578.3, 190.0>) with AKM from 3.45261 meters 
03:04:05 | Player "John Grace" (pos=<11644.2, 9581.5, 189.8>) hit by Player "Nicholas Mann" (pos=<11645.6, 9578.3, 190.0>) with AKM from 3.45262 meters 
03:04:05 | Player "John Grace" (pos=<11644.1, 9581.5, 189.8>) hit by Player "Nicholas Mann" (pos=<11645.6, 9578.3, 190.0>) with AKM from 3.46581 meters 

03:04:06 | Player "Nicholas Mann" (pos=<11645.4, 9579.1, 189.9>) hit by Player "John Grace" (pos=<11643, 9580.7, 189.7>) with M4A1 from 2.8734 meters 
03:04:06 | Player "Nicholas Mann" (pos=<11645.8, 9579.6, 189.9>) hit by Player "John Grace" (pos=<11642.8, 9580.4, 189.7>) with M4A1 from 3.15068 meters 

03:04:06 | Player "Smedley Butler" (pos=<11651.2, 9584.2, 190.1>) hit by Player "Charles Hackett" (pos=<11650.5, 9582.2, 190.2>) with PPSKN42 from 2.08926 meters 
03:04:06 | Player "Smedley Butler" (pos=<11651.2, 9584.2, 190.1>) hit by Player "Charles Hackett" (pos=<11650.5, 9582.2, 190.2>) with PPSKN42 from 2.08926 meters 
03:04:06 | Player "Smedley Butler" (pos=<11651.2, 9584.2, 190.1>) hit by Player "Charles Hackett" (pos=<11650.4, 9582.3, 190.2>) with PPSKN42 from 1.98454 meters 
03:04:06 | Player "Smedley Butler" (pos=<11651.2, 9584.2, 190.1>) hit by Player "Charles Hackett" (pos=<11650.4, 9582.3, 190.2>) with PPSKN42 from 1.98454 meters 
03:04:06 | Player "Smedley Butler" (pos=<11651.2, 9584.2, 190.1>) hit by Player "Charles Hackett" (pos=<11650.4, 9582.3, 190.2>) with PPSKN42 from 1.98454 meters 
03:04:06 | Player "Smedley Butler" (pos=<11651.2, 9584.2, 190.1>) hit by Player "Charles Hackett" (pos=<11650.2, 9582.5, 190.1>) with PPSKN42 from 1.90682 meters 
03:04:07 | Player "Smedley Butler" (pos=<11651.3, 9584.5, 190.1>) hit by Player "Charles Hackett" (pos=<11650.2, 9583.1, 190.1>) with PPSKN42 from 1.77128 meters 
03:04:07 | Player "Smedley Butler" (pos=<11651.3, 9584.5, 190.1>) hit by Player "Charles Hackett" (pos=<11650.2, 9583.1, 190.1>) with PPSKN42 from 1.77128 meters 
03:04:07 | Player "Smedley Butler" (pos=<11651.3, 9584.5, 190.1>) hit by Player "Charles Hackett" (pos=<11650.4, 9583.3, 190.1>) with PPSKN42 from 1.54896 meters 

03:04:08 | Player "Charles Hackett" (pos=<11650.3, 9584.2, 190.1>) hit by Player "John Grace" (pos=<11642.3, 9580.2, 189.7>) with M4A1 from 9.00851 meters 

03:04:08 | Player "John Grace" (pos=<11642, 9580.6, 189.6>) hit by Player "Charles Hackett" (pos=<11650, 9583.8, 190.1>) with PPSKN42 from 8.54968 meters 
03:04:08 | Player "John Grace" (pos=<11641.9, 9580.8, 189.6>) hit by Player "Charles Hackett" (pos=<11649.9, 9583.5, 190.1>) with PPSKN42 from 8.37433 meters 
03:04:08 | Player "John Grace" (pos=<11641.8, 9581.1, 189.6>) hit by Player "Charles Hackett" (pos=<11649.8, 9583.2, 190.1>) with PPSKN42 from 8.24604 meters 
03:04:09 | Player "John Grace" (pos=<11641.7, 9581.2, 189.6>) hit by Player "Charles Hackett" (pos=<11649.7, 9583.1, 190.1>) with PPSKN42 from 8.24098 meters 
03:04:09 | Player "John Grace" (pos=<11641.4, 9581.1, 189.6>) hit by Player "Charles Hackett" (pos=<11649.5, 9582.7, 190.1>) with PPSKN42 from 8.30315 meters 
03:04:09 | Player "John Grace" (pos=<11641.4, 9581.1, 189.6>) hit by Player "Charles Hackett" (pos=<11649.5, 9582.7, 190.1>) with PPSKN42 from 8.30315 meters 

03:08:37 | Player "Windex Akunda" (pos=<11665.5, 9588.0, 190.5>) hit by Player "Windex Akunda" (pos=<11665.5, 9588.0, 190.5>) with M67Grenade_Ammo into (-1) for 3.83783 damage (M67Grenade_Ammo)

Kill Logs:

Spoiler

03:04:06 | Player "Nicholas Mann" (DEAD) (pos=<11645.8, 9579.6, 189.9>) killed by Player "John Grace" (pos=<11642.8, 9580.4, 189.7>) with M4A1 from 3.15068 meters 

03:04:06 | Player "Smedley Butler" (DEAD) (pos=<11651.2, 9584.2, 190.1>) killed by Player "Charles Hackett" (pos=<11650.4, 9582.3, 190.2>) with PPSKN42 from 1.98454 meters 

03:04:08 | Player "John Grace" (DEAD) (pos=<11641.8, 9581.1, 189.6>) killed by Player "Charles Hackett" (pos=<11649.8, 9583.2, 190.1>) with PPSKN42 from 8.24604 meters 

03:11:10 | Player "Windex Akunda" (DEAD) (pos=<11662, 9587.9, 190.4>) killed by Player "Windex Akunda" (pos=<11662, 9587.9, 190.4>) with 6-M7 Frag Grenade

Calling in the following people to post their PoVs, list allies and provide video evidence if they have it:

@JohnGrace - OP

@chief_mello - Posted

@Hollows - Posted

@Nihoolious - Posted

@Grizzz - Posted

Given that he has replied to this report already and not posted a written PoV, @chief_mello will be temp banned until he updates his post with his written PoV.

@JohnGrace @chief_mello per the request above, list any allies that could've been inside the compound and may have initiated on Hollows. 

[JohnGrace]

I have no idea who else was there. I came up after this and asked kindly that everyone who was not An Pobal leave the compound and come back at a later date. This was because the entire place was a shit show, we didnt know who anyone was so we needed everyone out to secure the place. We literally stated who we were but we were killed because they "technically had rights" because someone threatened them even though they knew (whether they admit it or not) who we were and were allies of ours. Until they decided to kill us and steal our vehicle. 

[chief_mello]

@APositiveElmo I apologize for the confusion I thought I had already put up my POV in the report but I didn't realize that this was a new report. I had woken up within the Sitnik compound to yelling and screaming so I immediately tried to grasp what was going on. It turned out that the base was attacked so I started getting a personnel count and tried escorting people off the compound who did not have access to the front gate. I asked one gentleman in handcuffs what he was doing there he just said he was captured and did not show any signs of struggling at the time so then I proceeded to check the center area where there were two others I did not recognize. Me and another individual asked the three individuals who did not have access to the front gate to leave in order to get control of the situation. I pointed my gun briefly at the individual in the vehicle before putting it away and asked him to get out of the vehicle. I then head back to the center of the compound place my weapon back into my hands and ask the others to leave. As we were escorting them out I tried opening the front gate but had some technical issues as the game was acting up. I then come back into the game from a frozen screen into my inventory and was shot dead. 

[Inferno]

Thank you @chief_mello, your temp ban has been removed. 

[Rover]

13 hours ago, chief_mello said:

-snip-

 

15 hours ago, JohnGrace said:

-snip-

 

If you are in the 15 second video clip, please identify exactly who you are.

[JohnGrace]

1 hour ago, Rover said:

 

 

If you are in the 15 second video clip, please identify exactly who you are.

I wasnt in the video at all. At the time I was wearing a tan tshirt, multicam pants and plate carrier and a black molle assault bag

[Rover]

@Nvllsekt Can you confirm if you are the one in the video that initiates on the humvee?

If you are, please provide a POV.

[chief_mello]

@Rover I was the one with the weapon in the edited 15 second video clip.

[Echosect]

@Rover Let me clear this up, The perspective of the video is confusing.

The voice was me, But you can not see me in the video. I am up on the second floor of the built wall behind the camo net. I did not raise my weapon.. However i did say " Get out of the humvee or you will get shot ".

I was not the one next to the humvee.

This was for RP purposes as he was stealing from infront of our faces and could have easily just been shot. Multiple members of An Pobal were down and these guys were hopping around like nothing happened. At that point of the situation we were clearing the compound as it was a firefight and things were getting hectic, civvies running around making it hard to determine who is a threat as it was only a few minutes after the main battle. Going into lockdown so to speak. Everyone was being told to leave the compound, those who refused to comply would be considered and perceived as a threat.

When they started hopping into our compounds security vehicle that's when they went to far. We rolled up in that humvee before all the bullets started flying so everyone there should have known this was An Pobals vehicle. If a civilian was in a compound during/after a firefight and then tried to hop into the compounds security vehicle how do you expect the security of that compound to react?

If this was a real life situation a security would have done the same thing, warn them with force or would have just opened fire as it was an active combat situation, they would not comply with our orders. Entering our vehicle and starting it up in Alex's eyes are the hostile actions by those who refuse to comply with our orders and are therefore and initiation in itself. I know this is a game and some people let playfulness slide during Roleplay but in a real world scenario who the hell decides to stroll over jump into and starts up the compounds vehicle and decide to claim it. I wish see the rest of the video where @Hollows argues with me for like 5 minutes where he tell me they are taking the humvee regardless of what I say.

In my honest opinion, To sit there and argue with an armed security guard in a tower during a combat situation that your going to TAKE the compounds humvee as payment for a service that was never requested even when you are told 5 times to leave it alone shows the lack of fear of consequence...making it appear that they must have ill intent. In alex's eyes he was being told to surrender the humvee based on unverified claims to a civilian he does not know during a combat situation where multiple members of his team were down. These people persisted to demand the humvee and refused to comply with the orders we gave within our compound.

[NOTE] @Hollows I watched you crashed as you exited the humvee as well, I know you were unable to record after that. But do you have any video of the actions leading up to you driving off in the humvee? Please know i'm not looking to add salt. Just sharing my POV and explaining to justifying Alex in character actions.

[EDIT] Tagging, Grammar Correction. Added note.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Nvllsekt

[Hollows]

1 hour ago, Nvllsekt said:

[NOTE] @Hollows I watched you crashed as you exited the humvee as well, I know you were unable to record after that. But do you have any video of the actions leading up to you driving off in the humvee? Please know i'm not looking to add salt. Just sharing my POV and explaining to justifying Alex in character actions.

I never drove out of the compound with the Humvee. You watched @Squillium argue with y'all about the Humvee then steal it before getting killed, in the vehicle, and crashing it because of the SVD guy. I ran around and hopped in the seat and drove off with it after it left the compound and after he died. Position logs can validate this because I was outside the base in Sitnik trying to get a line of sight on whoever was hiding in double green.

I don't have video unless there is another video in the other report about the Humvee to my knowledge because I didn't think to clip it. 

[Echosect]

@Hollows Whoops, Sorry >_<. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Elmo]

Verdict:

@Hollows -  Invalid Kill [On Sight]: Not Guilty

@JohnGrace - Lying In A Report: Not Guilty

Explanation:

In this situation, @Hollows and co. are just out of a firefight in which they assisted the residents of Sitnik. An Pobal ran security and came to a disagreement about payment, so Hollows decided to steal their Humvee. This was not suitable for members of An Pobal so they initiated on Hollows to prevent the theft of their property. A small fight broke out in which several members of An Pobal were killed alongside members of Hollows’ dynamic group.

@Hollows, it's pretty straightforward here, you and your dynamic group gained defender rights on all An Pobal members the moment @Nvllsekt initiated on you, per our shared group rights rules. To this end, you cannot be found guilty of an invalid kill. 

@JohnGrace, we will not be finding you guilty of lying in a report due to your friends claiming the initiations as their own, it is entirely possible that you did not hear the call and were blindsided by Hollows and company. However, we would like to remind all members of An Pobal called in to this report that, if someone is clearly stealing your property in front of you, no initiation is required provided you have personally informed them that this is your property and they willfully continue to engage in theft. Stealing, in cases such as this, is a willful hostile action and, as such, the thieves could be shot without fear of out-of-character repercussions.

With that being said, this concludes the explanation of this report.

Outcome:

@Hollows - Invalid Kill [On Sight]: No Action Taken

@JohnGrace - Lying In A Report: No Action Taken

Signed by: @APositiveElmo, @Inferno & @Scarlett