Lack of RP rules

[Guest]

Hello,

Recently I have been involved, in my opinion, in a series of situations in which extremely poor RP was involved. But what worries me most is that the rules that would have supported my position have been removed. These are two examples of situations:

1) I got taken hostage. The people who took me check my inventory (without emoting) and immediately exclaim that I have human meat in my pants. None of these people were doctors. In fact, the one who found it was a child character

2) I get taken hostage during a firefight, given a rope, and forced to tie myself. Seriously, can anybody of you tie himself in real life?????? Have you tried??????? Probably you can handcuff yourself, but you CANNOT tie yourself with a rope... TRY! And the situation continues: my hostage taker checks my inventory, removes what he wants without emoting, and tells me to go away from the firefight.

 

There used to be a rule specifically about AoGM that involved recognizing human meat, placing items within containers where they would not naturally fit... what happened to that rule???? I cannot find it!!!!! Instead, we got a lot of huge amount of PvP rules about attacker rights, defender rights... (section 4 of the rules is the longest section) and, in fact, our role-play rules (section 3) are mostly related to PvP: not impersonating people, OOC communication, NLR...

Spoiler

https://www.dayzrp.com/rules/

So, is this still an RP server at all?

 

What I propose is to reintroduce some of the old rules (as I think that I remember them) and to add a new RP rule:

1) People cannot check my inventory without emoting it.

2) People cannot distinguish human from cow meat unless they are medics.

3) People cannot force me to tie myself.

 

For a full disclosure: I got one opinion of one staff member today, and, after this, I decided to make this a public discussion:

Spoiler

https://www.dayzrp.com/forums/topic/102329-is-being-forced-to-tie-yourself-aogm/?tab=comments#comment-1850627

 

Thank you in advance for your comments!

[Jim Smokes]

1. By the time players have access to your things and are going through your stuff, it doesnt matter if they emote it or not. If they have access to it its probably because you're at the wrong end of a gun, and they're going to poke around then regardless..

2 & 3 of your points are unnecessary in my opinion. Why dont we add a mod for every season and for every kind of weather, and remove all the names of every item because in real life items dont have names over them. While we're at it, lets have it so when you log out your character is still there because its really unrealistic to just vanish! 

See where I'm getting at?

It can be frustrating but at the end of the day we have to just follow the nature of some of the mechanics of the game, and that has an influence on roleplay for better or worse. 

If I told you to put yourself in handcuffs, would you be able to do that? (Misread OP)

Edited February 2, 2020 by Jim Smokes

[AndreyQ]

19 minutes ago, William89 said:

immediately exclaim that I have human meat in my pants.

This is known as metagaming. No need for other rules.

Edited February 2, 2020 by AndreyQ

[cmohr]

7 minutes ago, Jim Smokes said:

1. By the time players have access to your things and are going through your stuff, it doesnt matter if they emote it or not. If they have access to it its probably because you're at the wrong end of a gun, and they're going to poke around then regardless..

2 & 3 of your points are unnecessary in my opinion. Why dont we add a mod for every season and for every kind of weather, and remove all the names of every item because in real life items dont have names over them. While we're at it, lets have it so when you log out your character is still there because its really unrealistic to just vanish! 

See where I'm getting at?

It can be frustrating but at the end of the day we have to just follow the nature of some of the mechanics of the game, and that has an influence on roleplay for better or worse. 

If I told you to put yourself in handcuffs, would you be able to do that?

Obviously there's no point in making the server realistic to the point where it ruins the gameplay. But like with the human meat thing, there should be no way that someone in game could tell human meat apart from cow, unless they were a doctor or another cannibal. It definitely ruins roleplay when you have people calling you a cannibal just because they looked in their inventory and saw that it was human meat. Seasons and weather don't directly affect roleplay, but stuff like that does. It would be easy to just make a rule stating that people can't recognize human meat. I I believe it already should be against the rules, because it's pretty much straight up metagaming. 

[hctiM]

For the tying yourself with rope i dont think its that bad. I was also forced to tie myself up at one point, but it was either attempt or die. I dont think its that big of a deal. Im sure you could tie yourself up in real life, not very well, but when you have a gun to your head im sure you wouldnt do anything anyways tied up or not. But i do agree with you on the meat thing. Ive always played that if i see meat and I myself can see what it is my character wont know. So i understand the frustration there.

[Jim Smokes]

1 minute ago, cmohr said:

Obviously there's no point in making the server realistic to the point where it ruins the gameplay. But like with the human meat thing, there should be no way that someone in game could tell human meat apart from cow, unless they were a doctor or another cannibal. It definitely ruins roleplay when you have people calling you a cannibal just because they looked in their inventory and saw that it was human meat. Seasons and weather don't directly affect roleplay, but stuff like that does. It would be easy to just make a rule stating that people can't recognize human meat. I I believe it already should be against the rules, because it's pretty much straight up metagaming. 

I'd be inclined to agree if I think that rule would have an impacting affect. But I disagree that adding a rule would suddenly make the player base IC blindly eat human meat while OOCly knowing its human mean. Perhaps there's a mod that could change the names to unknown or otherwise make it so a player isnt sure? I agree that it's metagaming, unrealistic, and unfair to those that want to play as cannibals. I just think that without any in game changes it wouldn't have its desired effect, and would therefor be redundant. While we expect the community to do its best to act within the bounds of the game, how would staff enforce that rule? There's virtually no way to tell if they were just about to eat it but because it said human meat they changed their mind.

If someone offered me some form of human meat, players would just probably say "Oh that food I asked for? I was just saving it for later when I'm on the road." And toss it as soon as they leave. Now I think outing someone as a cannibal because someone found meat on them is of course wrong and BadRP. But other than that I dont see where this rule could reasonably be enforced and applied. 

It's a bad answer on my part, I agree with you, it would just be tricky imho to enforce a rule like that unless under very clear circumstances (such as outing a cannibal).

[Fuhqnugget]

1 is a bad argument. It exists because people don't want to be gunned down while tying you up. If you want to be 100% honest, holding a gun to your head with one hand and tying your hands would be more understanding, but obviously you still have full control of your body while you are being tied up. What's stopping you from pulling an MP7? Your hands were halfway tied up! You had an MP7 in your pants? You can't argue realism in this case, just that it's a necessary evil to avoid being mowed down during a hostage situation.

 

2. This is understandable, however if this was a rule you need to remember that you can't purposefully feed other players human meat, as it actually affects them in game. My characters dealt with cannibals before. He knows their mannerisms, and he's seen human meat. As a hunter as well, I think it'd be understandable to *question* Human meat, and it is distinguishably different than a steak. However I do believe that immediately screaming 'this is human meat' kills RP. Either way though, cannibals on the server generally just eat fat, as it doesn't give you the laughs and you can have a valid excuse that it's not human.

3. Also bad. It takes too long to text RP, and I'm sorry if people are wanting to be fairly quick in a stickup. If you think people are sticking you up just for gear and weren't giving sufficient RP, make a report for gearrp. If you are unable to put yourself in the scenario of something sifting through your bag while you're tied up, than that's your immersion problem, not theirs.

Edited February 2, 2020 by Fuhqnugget

[Militus]

I can definitely understand the rope part, even as somebody who uses rope on a pretty regular basis I know it's tough to learn how to tie it properly at the start in a way that means they can't just get out-- let alone doing so to yourself. It's hard to enforce stuff like that, though. Sometimes it's just surrendering a few bits of realism for a better experience.

As to the text RP-- generally I like seeing SOME of it, but some people are very slow typers and it can effect the outcome of a situation or people could delay.

[Guest Generic Name]

Let's face it, no one would ever trust a hostage to tie themselves IRL, the only reason this is even a thing is because within the mechanics of the game, tying yourself up is the same as someone else doing it. I find it very lazy and if I was ever asked to do it in game, I would flat out tell them "You want me to tie myself up and expect it to be secure? Is this your first time robbing someone?"

About the meat, I don't think you'd need to be a medic to tell that a cut of meat is exotic, most people know what raw beef, pork, chicken and goat look like. However a medic would probably be able to easily single out a piece of human flesh from others.

Now the inventory thing is just because people are lazy and nothing in the rules forces them to emote this specifically, I find it annoying but in reality it's not that big of a deal. If someone was shuffling through your things while you're tied up, I don't think it would be that easy to tell what is being taken unless it was something obvious like a cooking pot or something big enough.

Edited February 2, 2020 by Generic Name

[BackInNam]

I dont find 1 and 3 too much of a problem but im curious how it would be if human meat was replaced with the other meat model for other meats as to where its not as identifiable so people do not exclaim "Ah human meat" on first glance. Would be more curious if all the meat was replaced with just the word "Meat" as to where people are more inclined to keep track of which meat is which if they are also a cannibal (Tbh this would only really impact the cannibals anyways because majority of the other meat work the same). Just a couple thoughts.
 

Edited February 2, 2020 by BackInNam

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, Jim Smokes said:

It can be frustrating but at the end of the day we have to just follow the nature of some of the mechanics of the game, and that has an influence on roleplay for better or worse. 

But there used to be a time when there were no cigarettes in game, and people still smoked? And still, there is not a child character in game, but there are people who play as children???

This is the MAGIC of an RP server, that you can go beyond the in game mechanics!!!!!

 

11 minutes ago, Fuhqnugget said:

What's stopping you from pulling an MP7? Your hands were halfway tied up! You had an MP7 in your pants?

My suggestion is not stupid. What a good hostage taker should do is to emote *pats for a weapon and radio //do I find any?

 

Honestly, I am very disappointed with the replies that I am receiving. I feel that there used to be a lot of great RPers in this server when I joined. But most of them got permabanned. Instead, there is a new generation of people with other values. The fact that 40% of the people voted that it is ok that a child character can recognize human meat and call me a cannibal is... disappointing.

[Fuhqnugget]

7 minutes ago, William89 said:

But there used to be a time when there were no cigarettes in game, and people still smoked? And still, there is not a child character in game, but there are people who play as children???

This is the MAGIC of an RP server, that you can go beyond the in game mechanics!!!!!

 

My suggestion is not stupid. What a good hostage taker should do is to emote *pats for a weapon and radio //do I find any?

 

Honestly, I am very disappointed with the replies that I am receiving. I feel that there used to be a lot of great RPers in this server when I joined. But most of them got permabanned. Instead, there is a new generation of people with other values. The fact that 40% of the people voted that it is ok that a child character can recognize human meat and call me a cannibal is... disappointing.

You asked specifically if it was okay for someone to name a piece of meat and use it in game. Not if the situation was okay. You're using red herrings, and it's absolutely obnoxious to be doing any form of argumentation when all you're throwing out are these. The situation, no, altogether, yes. People should be able to recognize human meat.

 

Yes, people should pay you down for radios or anything. If you're tied up though, it's easier to just search your supplies and figure out if you were hiding shit. In my opinion, I've always used *Pat's down* //do I found anything for scenarios where we aren't necessarily trusting. It's dumb to request people to spend extra time in a hostile situation standing still since it is extremely possible that people are on their way. Do you think people with rights against them will say 'oh it looks like he's text RPing. Let's wait a sec.'

 

No, they'll shoot, which is why it'd be a dumb situation to put you in. People should emote more, yeah; but not in situations that gives other people an edge.

 

Also edit: changed stupid to be more respectful. I just have a clear aim for being blunt with my opinions and wasn't aiming to upset you.

Edited February 2, 2020 by Fuhqnugget

[Eagle]

1. No rule needed who cares if people emote or not.
2. That's meta they cannot tell what meat is what unless you have actual human parts in there arms legs etc.
3. Yes they can.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Eagle said:

1. No rule needed who cares if people emote or not.

It is not about emoting. My point is that nobody should be allowed to force me to tie myself.

 

Tying yourself is a mechanic that exists in game, but this is impossible to do in real life (try: you can handcuff yourself, but you cannot tie yourself with a rope). Therefore, it should not be allowed in an RP server. Same as with identifying human meat: this is an in game mechanic that is not possible in real life, and, in this case we both agree that it is metagaming (note that 45% of the people who voted do not agree).

 

Something that concerns me is that there are those who appeal for realism in the case of PvP-related topics. Like when the 503 flew to Chernarus (with the permission of two hostages who agreed to it), and PvPers complained that "this is not possible because it takes 5 hours to make the trip, so it is not realistic", and discuss about "attacker rights" (which they did not have), and "dynamic groups", and "server hoping", and, again, "quality RP" and "realism":

Spoiler

 

But then, this same people say that it is ok to tell me to tie myself. Quoting that thread:

This is fucking ridiculous.

[Rover]

25 minutes ago, William89 said:

It is not about emoting. My point is that nobody should be allowed to force me to tie myself.

 

Tying yourself is a mechanic that exists in game, but this is impossible to do in real life (try: you can handcuff yourself, but you cannot tie yourself with a rope). Therefore, it should not be allowed in an RP server. Same as with identifying human meat: this is an in game mechanic that is not possible in real life, and, in this case we both agree that it is metagaming (note that 45% of the people who voted do not agree).

 

Something that concerns me is that there are those who appeal for realism in the case of PvP-related topics. Like when the 503 flew to Chernarus (with the permission of two hostages who agreed to it), and PvPers complained that "this is not possible because it takes 5 hours to make the trip, so it is not realistic", and discuss about "attacker rights" (which they did not have), and "dynamic groups", and "server hoping", and, again, "quality RP" and "realism":

  Hide contents

 

But then, this same people say that it is ok to tell me to tie myself. Quoting that thread:

This is fucking ridiculous.

 

You can tie your own hands up and together. Its not even that hard.  Do about 5 minutes of google and youtube and you'll see how. Handcuff knots are easy to do.

 

You are picking a really strange thing to get picky about. Adjust, adapt, learn to play within the existing framework everyone else has been playing within. Of all the things that could be changed or improved within our rules, specifically placing a caveat that its not okay to have someone tie themselves up with rope is frankly a waste of time and energy. The reason that this is used IG is because its a way to manage a hostage in a game where someone can whip around and gun you down if you try to tie them up.

 

Its a mechanic placed in DayZ that is clearly intended, or you wouldn't be able to do it. Contrary to your belief, it can be done (easily) in real life.

[Fuhqnugget]

47 minutes ago, William89 said:

It is not about emoting. My point is that nobody should be allowed to force me to tie myself.

 

Tying yourself is a mechanic that exists in game, but this is impossible to do in real life (try: you can handcuff yourself, but you cannot tie yourself with a rope). Therefore, it should not be allowed in an RP server. Same as with identifying human meat: this is an in game mechanic that is not possible in real life, and, in this case we both agree that it is metagaming (note that 45% of the people who voted do not agree).

 

Something that concerns me is that there are those who appeal for realism in the case of PvP-related topics. Like when the 503 flew to Chernarus (with the permission of two hostages who agreed to it), and PvPers complained that "this is not possible because it takes 5 hours to make the trip, so it is not realistic", and discuss about "attacker rights" (which they did not have), and "dynamic groups", and "server hoping", and, again, "quality RP" and "realism":

  Reveal hidden contents

 

But then, this same people say that it is ok to tell me to tie myself. Quoting that thread:

This is fucking ridiculous.

Your comparing a situation and are still looking at said situation wrong.

 

Two people had kill rights against those people who left. They weren't asked. I wasn't among those people who had kill rights (arguably, since I am now reading that RP up to 1 hour beforehand can give kill rights), but that doesnt change that people did have kill rights. 

 

Tying yourself up is allowed because you can literally store a fucking MP7 in a cooking pot. You can whip it out of said cooking pot in under a second and mow down the person trying to take you hostage. It's arguably, in both regards, an AOGM, however it's a stupid fucking argument to make that because YOU personally can't tie yourself up that there should be a rule put in place to prevent it. 

 

Tying yourself up versus server hopping in an active hostile situation where two others have kill rights against you. These events are NOT comparable.

 

One is combat logging and avoiding RP, the other is just making sure that you don't fucking die due to an MP7 being stuffed up someone's ass.

 

If you made a rule against this you would the end of solo hostage situations, which hurts RP and takes away a common scenario.

 

I'm not getting into the argument about the previous thread, if you want to continue arguing with me about whether or not people had kill rights, PM me so I can further explain the rules that you aren't understanding.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Fuhqnugget

[Terra]

There is no "Lack of RP rules". The rules are clear. Trying to have a rule for every scenario possible is not needed.  This thread tastes salty much...

Quoting @Rover here: "You are picking a really strange thing to get picky about" - sums it up nicely.

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by Terra

[Ron]

5 hours ago, William89 said:

fucking ridiculous.

You know what we need a rule for? Frustrated people abusing different sections of the forums to whine instead of creating a report.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Ron

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Fuhqnugget said:

Tying yourself up is allowed because you can literally store a fucking MP7 in a cooking pot. You can whip it out of said cooking pot in under a second and mow down the person trying to take you hostage. It's arguably, in both regards, an AOGM

Yes. But that's my point.

There used to be a rule that said that it was not ok to "place items within containers where they would not naturally fit", but that it was ok to "collect rain water with a bottle".

And, in fact, if you get killed after emoting *pats for weapons /do I find any? the rules used to say that this was Bad RP.

 

18 minutes ago, Terra said:

There is no "Lack of RP rules". The rules are clear. Trying to have a rule for every scenario possible is not needed.  This thread tastes salty much...

No, there aren't. There were, but not any longer.

You are an old member. Do you not remember the rule about "collecting rain water with a bottle?". This is the rule that I mean, and it has been deleted. Instead, now we have a TON of PvP rules.

And yes, I am salty. I have never made a report. And now, after a series of situations that, in my opinion, are extremely poor RP (always with the same people), I was considering to make one (I would not have made it, I only thought of it). Only to find that the rules that supported my position no longer exist. Moreover: the community, which one year ago would have supported my opinion, has changed. I mean: 43% voted that any child character can distinguish human from cow meat! WHERE ARE THE REAL RPers????? (probably most were permabanned, now there is a new generation).

 

Anyway, after 47 people voted, it is clear that everybody is against this opinion. I appreciate everybody's replies, and I would like to request @staff to close this thread. Thank you!

[Terra]

6 minutes ago, William89 said:

Yes. But that's my point.

There used to be a rule that said that it was not ok to "place items within containers where they would not naturally fit", but that it was ok to "collect rain water with a bottle".

And, in fact, if you get killed after emoting *pats for weapons /do I find any? the rules used to say that this was Bad RP.

 

No, there aren't. There were, but not any longer.

You are an old member. Do you not remember the rule about "collecting rain water with a bottle?". This is the rule that I mean, and it has been deleted. Instead, now we have a TON of PvP rules.

And yes, I am salty. I have never made a report. And now, after a series of situations that, in my opinion, are extremely poor RP (always with the same people), I was considering to make one (I would not have made it, I only thought of it). Only to find that the rules that supported my position no longer exist. Moreover: the community, which one year ago would have supported my opinion, has changed. I mean: 43% voted that any child character can distinguish human from cow meat! WHERE ARE THE REAL RPers????? (probably most were permabanned, now there is a new generation).

 

Anyway, after 47 people voted, it is clear that everybody is against this opinion. I appreciate everybody's replies, and I would like to request @staff to close this thread. Thank you!

Yes, people have different opinions. No need to get salty when someone does not share your opinion. Get over it. Grow up.

And like it was suggested before:

Stop creating multiple threads about the same topic if you can't accept different opinions and still think YOUR opinion is the only one correct -  and it does not matter if I am an old member or not. The rules we have now are fine, much better then the rules we had before.

Make a report but stop this.

Thank you & a beautiful day to you.

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by Terra

[Aiko]

Closing upon request of the OP

/closed