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Mortico

Question about kill rights

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hey y'all, very situational question, but if i have kill rights on a person for whatever, and i want to kill them, am I allowed to hold them up and then execute them? Or do i have to KOS them for it to be valid?

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Kill rights usually imply that you have been attacked or robbed by the person you have kill rights on. It let's you skip the formalities and outright attack that person as long as the timer is still active. This does inherit the risk of you firing on the wrong target and ended up in the report section though.  As for the executing bit; if they had attacked or robbed you and you gained kill rights, as long as the execution is justified and within the logic of your character that does apply. Give the "victim" some roleplay though, as that's what it's all about in the end.

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If they committed a hostile action on you then you have kill rights on them. Going to the rules:

4.3: "You shouldn't use defender or attacker rights in situations where it doesn't make in-character sense as it can be seen as rule play. In other words, obtaining kill rights alone does not give you explicit permission to use them any time you want and in all situations. Think about if using them to kill another character is viable in the current situation considering role play and In Character information"

Basically, give the guy a good RP experience and make sure that it makes in character sense for you to kill him and you should be good. It needs to be justified. Dont just initiate on the guy for stealing your spoon and then shoot him in the face. 

Edited by Brady

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As an example of my very first kill on the server...

I was parking my bus beside the Trading Outpost, when a man runs up to the cargohold and yanks out an M4 and begins to run off. I jump out of the driver seat, screaming at him to stop; so that's when I raise my weapon and fire at him, along with the others nearby who then shot the man unconscious.

I technically gained kill rights automatically after his hostile action (theft) towards me, but I wanted to RP it out by screaming at him.

I handcuffed the man and resuscitated him. I brought him into the Trading Outpost for questioning along with the security team present at the time. I began to beat the man with my brace knuckles, as he stood on his knees. Unfortunately by accident I killed him on the first swing, thus plainly saying it; I executed him. I was within my right for the "past action" he committed towards me.

The rules were a bit different back then (circa 2017), but that scenario in my eyes still applies in very much the same way with the new rules.

Perhaps, that may give you a better understanding of "Kill Rights" and "Execution validity"...

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Common sense would tell us you could kill him, however kill rights does not equal execution rights and people got punished in the past for using them to kill hostages. It doesn't really make much sense but that's how it works.

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2 hours ago, AndreyQ said:

Common sense would tell us you could kill him, however kill rights does not equal execution rights and people got punished in the past for using them to kill hostages. It doesn't really make much sense but that's how it works.

We took out execution rights ages ago. If someone initiates on me and then within 2 hours I manage to capture him, I can kill him how I like whether that's a firing squad or beat him with a mushroom. As long as the RP is decent enough, it should be fine. 

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1 minute ago, Jamie said:

We took out execution rights ages ago. If someone initiates on me and then within 2 hours I manage to capture him, I can kill him how I like whether that's a firing squad or beat him with a mushroom. As long as the RP is decent enough, it should be fine. 

Personally I agree, but past verdicts suggested that you can't use kill rights to execute someone.

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2 minutes ago, AndreyQ said:

Personally I agree, but past verdicts suggested that you can't use kill rights to execute someone.

You got any links?

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3 minutes ago, Jamie said:

You got any links?

"kill rights cannot be used in hostage situations to execute people"

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7 hours ago, Mortico said:

hey y'all, very situational question, but if i have kill rights on a person for whatever, and i want to kill them, am I allowed to hold them up and then execute them? Or do i have to KOS them for it to be valid?

IMO a KoS is never a good option.

As stated above the kill could also be seen as ruleplay...

If you do want to kill them, just initiate again. That way you have attacker rights if the do not comply.

Edited by JobScholten

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10 hours ago, Mortico said:

hey y'all, very situational question, but if i have kill rights on a person for whatever, and i want to kill them, am I allowed to hold them up and then execute them? Or do i have to KOS them for it to be valid?

If you hold someone up they are now your hostage, which means only rule 4.6 applies when it comes to 'executing' them.

Defender Rights are not a valid reason under rule 4.6 to execute someone, unless you gained those rights through them killing or participating in the death of an ally of yours.

Quote

 

4.6 If you successfully capture a player through a hostile action and then take him into your custody, he is now considered your hostage. You must do everything in your power to keep your hostages alive and in a relatively good health. That includes protecting them from external threats like zombies and leaving them with a realistic chance of survival when they are released. A character that is taken hostage may be executed once for a hostile incident that happened in the past where the hostage was personally responsible for, or participated in a death of your ally. In any other circumstances, hostages may only be executed in the following scenarios:

  • Hostages do not comply with your demands after repeated requests or try to escape.
  • Hostages pose a direct threat to you or your group, for example by picking up a weapon when not allowed to.
  • Hostages do not value their life, for example they repeatedly talk back or insult you despite being told to stop.
  • Approved group of the hostage or their allies refuse to negotiate or open fire on hostage takers.
  • Demands from negotiations with approved group of the hostage have not been met after a reasonable time has elapsed.

 

 

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If you wish to kill him whilst having rights why bother going thought taking him hostage doing the hostage RP route then blasting him, if it's not a PK what's the point?

Rights do not give execution rights even thought if they have killed your friend harmed him or anything similar you can.

Edited by Eagle

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13 hours ago, Mortico said:

hey y'all, very situational question, but if i have kill rights on a person for whatever, and i want to kill them, am I allowed to hold them up and then execute them? Or do i have to KOS them for it to be valid?

Executions are defined in the rules section:

Quote

4.6 If you successfully capture a player through a hostile action and then take him into your custody, he is now considered your hostage. You must do everything in your power to keep your hostages alive and in a relatively good health. That includes protecting them from external threats like zombies and leaving them with a realistic chance of survival when they are released. A character that is taken hostage may be executed once for a hostile incident that happened in the past where the hostage was personally responsible for, or participated in a death of your ally. In any other circumstances, hostages may only be executed in the following scenarios:

Hostages do not comply with your demands after repeated requests or try to escape.

Hostages pose a direct threat to you or your group, for example by picking up a weapon when not allowed to.

Hostages do not value their life, for example they repeatedly talk back or insult you despite being told to stop.

Approved group of the hostage or their allies refuse to negotiate or open fire on hostage takers.

Demands from negotiations with approved group of the hostage have not been met after a reasonable time has elapsed.

 

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