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Cow

S1 - Kabanino RDM

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Server and location: S1/Kabaino

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME): 22.00

Your in game name: Matthew Cade

Names of allies involved: Larry, unknown forum name.

Name of suspect/s: N/A

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any): My car doing 70+ through Kabaino.

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): N/A

Detailed description of the events: Was driving a new pal of mine around as he'd not really done anything with vehicles before and I just happened to have one, we get to Kabanino and Larry mentioned people just off the road, I've already picked up speed doing 70+ when I hear "Stop the car, stop the car, stop the car." followed by a hail of gunfire from 2-3 individuals, I died  straight away, no idea about Larry.

Going to be honest, a little miffed.

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Connection Logs:

Spoiler
20:51:18 | Player "Matthew Cade" is connected
22:09:58 | Player "Matthew Cade" has been disconnected

21:53:47 | Player "Larry Thompson" is connected
22:01:53 | Player "Larry Thompson" has been disconnected
22:02:03 | Player "Larry Thompson" is connected
- Player is still in game -

21:40:42 | Player "Donovan Joyce" is connected
- Player is still in game -

21:49:57 | Player "Tommylee Joyce" is connected
- Player is still in game -

21:46:01 | Player "Eddie Ward" is connected
- Player is stil in game -

 

Hit Logs:

22:01:04 | Player "Matthew Cade" hit by Player "Donovan Joyce" with AKM from 19.4328 meters 
22:01:04 | Player "Matthew Cade" hit by Player "Donovan Joyce" with AKM from 21.7193 meters 
22:01:05 | Player "Larry Thompson" hit by Player "Donovan Joyce" with AKM from 31.6253 meters 
22:01:05 | Player "Matthew Cade" hit by Player "Donovan Joyce" with AKM from 33.6136 meters 
22:01:07 | Player "Matthew Cade" hit by Player "Donovan Joyce" with AKM from 53.8393 meters

22:01:45 | Player "Larry Thompson" hit by Player "Eddie Ward" with M417 from 85.2306 meters

Kill Logs:

22:01:04 | Player "Matthew Cade" (DEAD) killed by Player "Donovan Joyce" with AKM from 21.7193 meters 

22:01:45 | Player "Larry Thompson" (DEAD) killed by Player "Eddie Ward" with M417 from 85.2306 meters

Position Logs:

22:03:31 | Player "Donovan Joyce" (pos=<5414.0, 8504.8, 331.7>) 
22:03:31 | Player "Eddie Ward" (pos=<5423.5, 8469.0, 334.2>) 
22:03:31 | Player "Tommylee Joyce" (pos=<5407.9, 8507.0, 332.2>) 

Calling in:
@Cow | Matthew Cade | OP
@BrycePottre | Larry Thompson | POSTED
@Ryan Shepherd | Donovan Joyce | POSTED
@Cuchulainn | Tommylee Joyce | POSTED
@APositiveElmo | Eddie Ward | POSTED

For their full, detailed POV and any unedited video evidence they may have.

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Hello @Cow.

I was the fellow that killed you.

I was in Kabanino at the pump when I hear a car coming, I hid behind the wall until you passed the green double story, I then sprinted from the wall towards the car and screamed 'Stop the car!' 3 times while pointing my gun. I was well within your point of view and I made sure of it by timing my run correctly.

The car was not going 70mph, it was between 30-35mph. As soon as I initiated you tried to swerve off, so I opened fire.

I initiated and you failed to stop the car giving me the right to open fire upon any occupants in the vehicle. 

I am sorry it went down like that and felt poorly to you, however failing to stop given the demand was unfortunately your own fault.

I'm open to chat to you in discord if you wish.

Cheers lad.

 

 

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Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed on how this situation unfolded.

I've been around these parts for quite a long time and the rules have been changed quite frequently. In the past if initiating on a vehicle a clear block in the road or ample time to react needed to be given, neither of which deem to be present in the situation. 

While driving through Kab at a speed, which in irrelevant, greater than the time given to react, a man runs to the street with the given demands "Stop the car" about 3 times before waiting 2-3 seconds and shooting. After about 4-5 shots the driver is hit and killed and the car rivines to the right. Shots continue and I get out of the vehicle and move away from the vehicle behind the tower. Bandage, and a party of which that has not initiated on me, kills me from the hill. Just seems quite suspect that they initiate on a vehicle moving through a town for no seeming reason, and kill me without giving any type of RP other than "STOP THE CAR". While clearly hostile it's not quite hard to see that this probably stemmed from gear lust or something of the type. I'd additionally like to add that the fella on the kill that killed me, in a group or not made no intention on anything other than killing the passenger in the car.

 

No video evidence at this time.

My discord name is Larry Thompson#5581 if anyone would like to contact me.

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Am in game, will respond with my PoV when I'm done roleplaying.

I will say though @BrycePottre, there are currently no special rules for initiating on vehicles beyond standard initiation protocol i.e. demand + threat, which was given. I'm down to talk this out in Discord if you feel you were wronged in some way. Same applies to you @Cow.

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I am currently in game and will post PoV once done.

 

PoV: I was strolling through the lovely but lonely street of Kabino reminiscing about its previous glory and good fortune when a car comes driving past me and down the road. I then see that @Ryan Shepherd intiates and shoots at it. I, a fair distance away, decide to just go into the Kab barn complex and I take care of the zombies that were after me cos of @Ryan Shepherd's gunfire. Once I have finished slaughtering the zombies I proceed to float to where this conflict had occurred and chatted with my comrades.

Edited by Cuchulainn
Added PoV

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1 minute ago, APositiveElmo said:

there are currently no special rules for initiating on vehicles beyond standard initiation protocol i.e. demand + threat, which was given.

Was it though, I got the demand but where on earth is this verbal threat? I'm moving away from your group I cannot automatically see a rifle being pointed at me.

Bit of a push to expect me or my passenger to be looking at you while in a moving vehicle, flagging us down or blocking the road and I can respect the visual threat but I'm moving away from you. Pardon my French but It felt like a rushed and botched invalid initiation.

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Just now, Cow said:

Was it though, I got the demand but where on earth is this verbal threat? I'm moving away from your group I cannot automatically see a rifle being pointed at me.

Bit of a push to expect me or my passenger to be looking at you while in a moving vehicle, flagging us down or blocking the road and I can respect the visual threat but I'm moving away from you. Pardon my French but It felt like a rushed and botched invalid initiation.

I was point blank in front of you pointing a gun at you, while screaming 'Stop the Car!' It was fairly unambiguous what was happening.

You had ample time to press 'S' to slow the vehicle down, yet you tried to speed away.

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Fairly unambiguous? That’s a stretch. I’ve had people flag me down with that just for a lift, I cannot perceive a threat if I cannot see it, your VOIP was behind me and I never saw your weapon raised so I’m not sure what you want when you present a verbal demand and an apparent visual threat I cannot perceive let alone a total lack of time to comply had I seen it.
 

My POV is down staff can let me know if I’m needed to post. 

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1 minute ago, Cow said:

Fairly unambiguous? That’s a stretch. I’ve had people flag me down with that just for a lift, I cannot perceive a threat if I cannot see it, your VOIP was behind me and I never saw your weapon raised so I’m not sure what you want when you present a verbal demand and an apparent visual threat I cannot perceive let alone a total lack of time to comply had I seen it.

Your lack of situational awareness is your fault. I owned my faults with your friend in comms and tried to own it with you before you stormed off claiming to be insulted. Shepherd may as well have been taking your order at McDonald's with how close he was to the car, short of letting you run him over, which seems like an outcome that isn't optimal for most initiators, he did all he could for you. 

As for @BrycePottre, I understand you're upset and I tried to work this out reasonably with you, but at the end of the day you turned and aim your rifle at me after bailing from a car that was initiated on validly. I domed you rather than take the bullet, which I'm sure will make sense to you as you were constantly preaching character realism to me in our little chat.

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Allow me to break this down very simple for you Mr Cow.

Below we have the almighty video evidence and some snippets.

Spoiler

 

 

I make line of sight:

Spoiler

Inkedde9442470be9cc5d1dc1a41a2c89bd17_LI.jpg.c8954149af049caf5f298030540142e5.jpg

I begin to demand them to 'Stop the car!' for this first time whilst directly in his line of sight, even for first person:

Spoiler

Inked287249f8754e92c40632f3ef40757c39_LI.jpg.02975ffd86f67fe4c5b3d46b19f5593c.jpg

I repeat stop the car a further 3 times, I begin to aim my gun at 4 seconds in:

Spoiler

29146bd5421f032e7bc1e7ad7a6b6bc1.jpg.e310b1254ce86a42be60ec616aee299a.jpg

I fire my first shot at 8 seconds when you can be seen to increase speed showing no sign of compliance.

Spoiler

f191d8d0a1cb7f581c10e22981a5850c.jpg.a64370b9ae6f6e10554ac03aa4b7bca9.jpg

  • I showed a clear unambiguous initiation towards the vehicle, my intent and what was going to happen if you didn't do so.
  • You do not need to be spoon fed what is going to happen when a masked man sprints towards you with a gun out shouting 'Stop the car!'. I assure you any man doing so isn't looking for a chat and a cup of tea.
  • As seen in the video, you increased your speed and attempted to get away after been given 4 seconds to simply press the 'S' key to slow down. 
  • There are no special requirements for initiating on vehicles.
  • You died from non compliance.
  • Seeing as the video shows you clearly not going 70 when pulling through Kabino, my initiation starting in full view of the front, side then back of your vehicle, as well as the fact that you tried to speed up after you heard my voice, it seems to me that you're being dishonest with your representation of what happened. There are too many holes in your story which are bad attempts at making you seem like the victim when the reality is you tried to get lucky and speed off but failed and died.

This is a clear cut case of 2.4:

2df8c457720ed6f93244b7cd79cac6ad.png.4e9ad554bf393165a73e4c596ca0eb5b.png

Non compliance usually results in death, considering you joined in 2015, I assumed you would know this.

With this in mind, I would like if staff could evaluate the validity of these accusations against me, as this seems to me like textbook misrepresentation of facts in order to get someone banned.

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@APositiveElmo In our conversation, you admitted to killing me unjustly because you were afraid to get killed which is quite unfortunate and unacceptable from anyone who's been in the community as long as you have. You're a Moderator in this community and should be someone that players can count on to try and push for following the rules, and explanations to the public should NOT be anything related to "I killed you because I didn't want to die", which quite frankly is a piss poor excuse for anyone in this community. I "Preached" that it would've been a whole lot more enjoyable for you and your friends if you had found a better way to approach the situation as whole. I didn't start this report, and I frankly understand why @Cow has decided to keep it open. I support his decision. Unless anything significant comes to light, I'll refrain from adding any more to this topic, unless otherwise requested from an administrator.

 

EDIT: 

Additionally after seeing the video from @Ryan Shepherd, I'd like to see a longer clip of the situation to include before and past my death.

Edited by BrycePottre
requesting addition evidence.

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3 minutes ago, BrycePottre said:

-snip-

I have said as much about the validity of my kill in this report, because I am an honest man and have no desire to warp the facts to my benefit. However, bringing up my staff rank, which is irrelevant to the discussion at hand, in yet another attempt at grand-standing with me, is a clear and obvious dishonest attempt to divert attention from the blatant falsehoods @Cow has been pushing in this report; as highlighted by Shepherd in his most recent post. Your opinion of me and your hollow grandstanding have no place in this report.

8 minutes ago, BrycePottre said:

Additionally after seeing the video from @Ryan Shepherd, I'd like to see a longer clip of the situation to include before and past my death.

You'll have to produce it yourself then lad. We've no more to offer 🙂 

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Initiating on cars has always been a messy affair and as the one who initiaties it is up to you to make sure it is clear incase of such a case of misinterperatation for which you could of done better, much better.

Initiailly I wasn't satisfied that the initiation was valid so I made this report so I could get answers, I appreciate the video but what I do not appreciate is the sheer volume of smug you're eminating with your post even going as far to accuse me of making this report solely to spite you when that could not be any further from the truth. I am on final warning so I'm not sure the possible gain of making a petty report outweighs the risk of me making a report solely to spite you but I can appreciate the attempt.

I am however satisfied and sticking to my original intention of this report as to get myself an answer which albeit poorly and with much negativity, has been provided.

Staff may proceed as necessary, I accept the result whichever it may be.

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Given that @APositiveElmo has acknowledged this report, engaged with it two separate times, and appears to have discussed it OOC with the OP, he will be temp banned until he provides his full and detailed POV.

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@Peril 

My PoV is seen here

Spoiler

image.png.27dae38984aba379fb142ae0983ef31a.png

I had no prior interaction with the OP or his friend at that point. I saw the OP bail from his car after Shep initiated, shot him dead once he made me trying to sneak up to reinitiate on him after he pointed his weapon at me. There's nothing else to add here.

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Just now, APositiveElmo said:

I saw the OP bail from his car after Shep initiated, shot him dead once he made me trying to sneak up to reinitiate on him after he pointed his weapon at me. There's nothing else to add here.

Thank you for posting this POV, your temp ban will be lifted.

You state you you were trying to sneak up to reinitiate on Bryce; did you or did you not initiate on him prior to shooting and killing him?

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Just now, Peril said:

You state you you were trying to sneak up to reinitiate on Bryce; did you or did you not initiate on him prior to shooting and killing him?

As previously acknowledged by myself after the OP's friend posted this:

Spoiler

image.png.5d6b4455ac14a9cd70d5b3d3c9ffb904.png

I did not initiate and accept that there was wrongdoing on my behalf. Before I had a chance to reinitiate for myself, Bryce turned and pointed his rifle at me from a position of cover taken up after Shepherd's onslaught. Being in an open field with no cover in front of a man who drew his weapon after an initiation by one of my friends, then aimed it at me, I decided to value my life and shot him as there was nowhere reasonable to run to before I'd be gunned down.

Shepherd has also raised many excellent points regarding the discrepancies in the story of the OP, regarding the speed of the car, the clarity of the initiation and the OP's reaction to the initiation. I hope the GM team will also be pointing questions in this direction.

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1 minute ago, APositiveElmo said:

- snip -

Thank you for completely detailing your POV, as these details, including the answer to the question I asked you, have yet to be clearly stated in the scope of this report, only in the out-of-character discussion you have shared with the accusing party.

Please keep an eye on this report for any further questions.

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14 hours ago, Cow said:

I've already picked up speed doing 70+

@Cow

Can you clarify after watching Ryan Shepherds video the speed at which your car was travelling? You claim to be travelling 70, did you estimate that or were you confident and looking at the speed when the initiation was dropped?

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I was confident at first but my speed must of been lower especially after watching the video, as Ryan pointed out it was around 30-40 I remember being in 4th gear, I must of eased on the gas as it looks like I slowed down too and had a little swerve.

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With the correction of the speed of your car taken into account and having seen video evidence of what happened, how would you like to proceed with this report @Cow?

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I’ve realised my original misinterpretation regarding my speed as I genuinely believed I was going faster than I was.

I would like to see the report to it’s full conclusion though, thank you.

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Given that no Game Master has deigned to pry into the story of the OP, I shall have to do it myself, as Shepherd has.

As seen in his original PoV, the OP claimed to be doing 70 through Kab, which he later retracted after being confronted by a staff member and with the addition of video evidence proving that this claim was a lie. There is a massive difference between 30/40 and 70 in-game, mistaking this is difficult, especially if you are paying attention to your vehicle which, in DayZ, every driver does as they are death traps.

In his follow up post here:

Spoiler

image.png.fec848d36f91de43d3dd40c48df5bdcb.png

He claims two false things: that he never saw Ryan Shepherd's threat and that he had no time to comply. In Shepherd's CSI Athlone post, you can clearly see him step nearly in front of the vehicle, call out before it has passed him, initiate before it has passed him and then reinitiated as it passes him. The OP is doing perhaps 30 at this point, but his speed increases after Shep's second initiation. Our OP clearly had enough time to press S if he had enough time to press Shift+W. This is undeniable, yet he claims that there was no time to comply and that there was no visual threat. A man waving a gun in the road telling you to stop your car is a threat, your acceleration is non-compliance, this is indisputable.

The accusation of a false report is not for the accusation against myself, but the accusation against Ryan Shepherd. If you have looked at the video, read our PoVs and seen the contrary elements in the OP's story, you will see that this report, though I am guilty, against Shepherd and the accusation of an invalid initiation and subsequent RDM is clearly false. My guilt is not in question, I am guilty no doubt, but if you would refer to the post the OP made at the beginning of this thread:

Spoiler

image.png.ced5ab0e3e5c7e46e932361b33c37993.png

When he made this report, the OP was not reporting me, he was reporting the man who initiated on him, which he heard by his own admission, then killed him for his non-compliance. As said before, Shepherd was visible, his rifle was visible, the car accelerated after his initiation and the OP got shot. Putting aside the terrible attitude from the OP and his friend, which only further supports my notion that this is indeed an anger fuelled report, the notion that Shepherd was not seen is ridiculous, the notion that Shepherd only initiated from behind the car is false and the notion that they had absolutely 0 time to comply is downright untruthful.

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