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S1 – Metagaming and Invalid Kill/Ruleplay

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S1 – Metagaming and Invalid Kill/Ruleplay

Server & Location: US Chernarus Server - Wolf Pack Compound

Date & Time: 2019-12-03, 03:40 – 4:30ish Server Time

Your In Game Name: Ivan Belic

Name of Allies: @Blizna @ImNovaaa @RiZ

Name of Suspect/s: @thicdickdaddy27 and Jackals (logs will show who else was there)

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved: N/a

Additional Evidence: N/a

 

Detailed description of events: @Blizna and I are at Wolf Pack Compound when shots and snaps were coming at the compound. We both took cover and searched the hills for the shooter. We ended up seeing @thicdickdaddy27in the hills prone and aiming into the compound. We both confirm his position and him aiming, so we shot him and killed him for the shooting at the compound. The details of these events are currently being discussed in a different report.

However, after @thicdickdaddy27 was killed he told other members of his group that he was dead and “radioed” it to them, which someone’s response to him saying he was dead could be heard in game and was captured on @RiZ's stream. @RiZ and other Wolf Pack members were on their way back to the compound with other members apart of Jackals, which is the approved group that @thicdickdaddy27 is a part of. The events in the stream begin around 3 hours and 37 minutes into the stream while they are starting to leave Cherno: 

 

 

Even before we could radio to the others members of Wolf Pack that we had killed someone, @ImNovaaacame in our channel and told us OOCly that we had killed @thicdickdaddy27 who was a member of the Jackals. Our initial reaction was confusion: why would they know about this if he was dead? And why did we have a Jackal member sniping into the compound?

So, the information of his death was meta’d to the other members of Jackals who began to question the Wolf Pack members in the truck with them. They wanted to talk to whoever had shot and killed @thicdickdaddy27 and @ImNovaaa came back into our channel and told us that they wanted to speak with us when they got back. I was confused because it should have never became known ICly what had happened and @ImNovaaa had agreed.

If you continue to watch the stream, information continues to be meta-gamed, such as what weapon he had, what he was doing when he was shot (such as aiming in or not), and somehow knew his exact inventory.

When they came back from Cherno one of the members of Jackals asked who were Ivan and Shelby, so we both came forward and was expecting them to be angry and probably end up with some hostile RP. As we both came forward no other words were spoken, and multiple members of the Jackals shot and killed Shelby and I. Ending the roleplay scenario for the both of us there. It was very disappointing because we knew the information was meta-gamed and even after that they refused to even roleplay and decided to just shoot us without any discussion not even giving us the opportunity to explain ICly what had happened. 

Edited by cjackson821
fixing @'s

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Connection Logs

03:45:33 | Player "Ivan Belic" is connected
-Died-
07:24:37 | Player "Ivan Belic" has been disconnected

03:44:14 | Player "Alex Shelby" is connected
-Died-
07:40:14 | Player "Alex Shelby" has been disconnected

02:30:01 | Player "Kurt Keys" is connected
03:41:48 | Player "Kurt Keys" has been disconnected
-Server Restart-
03:46:17 | Player "Kurt Keys" is connected
04:48:40 | Player "Kurt Keys" has been disconnected
04:50:50 | Player "Kurt Keys" is connected
04:58:22 | Player "Kurt Keys" has been disconnected
05:00:24 | Player "Kurt Keys" is connected
06:11:04 | Player "Kurt Keys"has been disconnected

01:23:14 | Player "Kaine Kones" is connected
03:41:48 | Player "Kaine Kones" has been disconnected
-Server Restart-
03:45:21 | Player "Kaine Kones" is connected
05:23:08 | Player "Kaine Kones" has been disconnected

02:15:19 | Player "Bobby Slaughter" is connected
03:41:48 | Player "Bobby Slaughter" has been disconnected
-Server Restart-
03:44:14 | Player "Bobby Slaughter" is connected
04:40:48 | Player "Bobby Slaughter" has been disconnected

Hit Logs

04:24:05 | Player "Ivan Belic" hit by Player "Kaine Kones" with M4A1 from 4.68391 meters 
04:24:07 | Player "Ivan Belic" hit by Player "Bobby Slaughter" with AKM from 3.11068 meters 
04:24:07 | Player "Ivan Belic" hit by Player "Bobby Slaughter" with AKM from 3.11068 meters 
04:24:07 | Player "Ivan Belic" hit by Player "Bobby Slaughter" with AKM from 3.25731 meters 
04:24:07 | Player "Ivan Belic" hit by Player "Kurt Keys" with B52 from 3.8018 meters 
04:24:07 | Player "Ivan Belic" hit by Player "Bobby Slaughter" with AKM from 3.58256 meters 
04:24:07 | Player "Ivan Belic" hit by Player "Kurt Keys" with B52 from 3.91513 meters 
04:24:07 | Player "Ivan Belic" hit by Player "Kurt Keys" with B52 from 4.02862 meters 
04:24:08 | Player "Ivan Belic" hit by Player "Bobby Slaughter" with AKM from 3.74678 meters 
04:24:08 | Player "Ivan Belic" hit by Player "Kurt Keys" with B52 from 4.25607 meters 
04:24:08 | Player "Ivan Belic" hit by Player "Bobby Slaughter" with AKM from 3.9671 meters 
04:24:08 | Player "Ivan Belic" hit by Player "Bobby Slaughter" with AKM from 4.24433 meters 
04:24:08 | Player "Ivan Belic" hit by Player "Bobby Slaughter" with AKM from 4.24433 meters 
04:24:08 | Player "Ivan Belic" hit by Player "Bobby Slaughter" with AKM from 4.46735 meters 

04:24:06 | Player "Alex Shelby" hit by Player "Kaine Kones" with M4A1 from 6.29264 meters 

Kill Logs

03:36:20 | Player "Joe Dewski" (DEAD) killed by Player "Alex Shelby" with FN-FAL from 299.543 meters 

04:24:06 | Player "Alex Shelby" (DEAD) killed by Player "Kaine Kones" with M4A1 from 6.29264 meters 
04:24:07 | Player "Ivan Belic" (DEAD) killed by Player "Bobby Slaughter" with AKM from 3.11068 meters

________________________________________________

Calling in the following for their detailed POVs and any evidence they might have.

@cjackson821 - Ivan Belic OP
@Blizna - Alex Shelby - POSTED
@Apollo - Kaine Kones - POSTED
@Bobby - Bobby Slaughter - POSTED
@Dustup - Kurt Keys - POSTED
@thicdickdaddy27 - Joe Dewski - POSTED

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Alex POV : I went inside after a situation that occurred in another report and I was informed over the radio by @ImNovaaa that the Jackals were coming to deal with a situation regarding us. So i thought they had just wanted to talk about the situation since it was a mistake, i had no idea how the Jackals knew our names and how there friend died without even confirming the body. As well as coming in to the compound and just asking, are you this person and then just shooting us.

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While we were in the truck as shown on riz's stream we get radio'd by BIG JOHN aka @thicdickdaddy27 that he was sitting in the treeline above the wolfpack base waiting for us to return with the truck. Moments later he tells us that he was getting shot at and then he went radio silent. I tried contacting him again asking if he was okay but he did not respond. Then we begin the RP and talk to riz and dj who were in the truck with us and they give us your full names. 

Let me make it more clear, we knew there wasn't anyone surrounding the wolfpack base other than a few wolfpack members who were not present with us when we left for our jog from the base to the airfield which we continued south, Dew logs in near your base and at this time we had no hostilities with any of you and as shown in the other report you never went out and roleplayed with him trying to figure out if he was the one shooting and where he was shooting so you killed him. In the moments when you were shooting he told us he was receiving shots and then went radio silent which usually means he died. 

We speak to Hutch and Dj and they provide your full names and let us know that you were the ones that shot at BIG JOHN, to which I let them know that doesn't add up and that we was gonna have an eye for an eye moment, so when we got to your camp you had some idea of what was going to happen because as shown in the other report you shot at him with weapons that were not on your person when we linked up at the base. 

We arrive at the base where we already had some of our members present and they were talking to you and they were in the process of getting your names. We hop out the truck and confirm your names and use our defender rights to execute you for killing BIG JAHN as we are both in official groups. 

Metagaming claim: We gained the information through Hutch and some information from Dew prior to his death about his whereabouts and when he was taking shots.

Invalid Kill claim: We executed you because you murdered one of our leaders using our shared defender rights through official group rights.

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@Aiko can you please add the connection logs prior to where it shows a connection to server from 3:44-3:46 by everyone as I am sure this  is the reconnection after server restart, which occured after dews death. Also my connection logs after what ids up, i was kicked for high latency then reconnected and i think i was dc'd again then reconnected, cant remember exactly but logs would show.  We don't want anyone falsely claiming we werent even on server for the death of  @thicdickdaddy27.  Will post a pov after I have had time to review the stream left as evidence to refresh my memory.

Edited by Dustup

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PoV: I don't really have a PoV to add as I wasn't involved in any of this. After I was KoS'd by @cjackson821 I left my discord. I was in the channel, but the only people unmuted in the channel were @choccymilkboy27 @Dustup @Apollo and @Undead . They heard me shouting "I'm getting shot at I'm getting shot at! I'm going to die!" Once I died I left the channel and went to the helpdesk, where @Aiko showed up to help me find out who and why I was kos'd. This report has a lot of baseless claims about metagaming my death to who I assume is because of @Joe . There is absolutely no proof in the evidence provided in the video that suggests it is me talking to @Joe or @Joe is talking to me. There are some further metagaming claims that leads to the death of two wolfpack members. These deaths were carried about by my approved group members who used their rights after finding out who murdered me via an IC investigation. I'll let them explain that in their PoVs. I'd like to ask the OP why he decided to put up this report as the metagaming in question is not in his presence. I'd also like to ask the OP how, as he claimed in his PoV, that he knew the information was metagamed or was this another baseless claim. I'd like to address the claim that states my fellow Jackals members "refused to even roleplay." As they will address in their PoVs, they narrowed it down by process of elimination and dealt with it how they saw fit. There was roleplay involved in your deaths. My group mates already knew what I was wearing because of prior times we had been rolling together, it's not hard to remember what your friend is wearing. Also they knew I was waiting for them outside the base on the hill because I had already relied that information to them when I had logged onto the server

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POV:

We were in the truck going towards Berezino, I was muted the entire time @thicdickdaddy27 was talking on the radio so I wasn’t aware of what was going on. When I unmute @choccymilkboy27 tells me what happened. We talk to Hutch and DJ and they tell us that Shelby and Ivan were the ones who shot him. We told them to bring them outside the prison because we are going to deal with them. When we get there I double check by asking them if they were in fact Shelby and Ivan, They said yes so using our kill rights I said “Dewski sends his regards” and killed one of them.

 

As for knowing what gear he had, I start talking to Hutch and DJ about what gear he had and I then start to remember that he had an AK a winchester and the black bag as he hasn’t died in a couple days.

Edited by Bobby-kun

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 im pretty sure this is the clip hes talking about 

 @thicdickdaddy27

Edited by Blizna
Adding additional clip

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My (forum) name is @Dustup and this is my version of events:

 

THE FACTS:

OK so First off there was absolutely no metagaming by myself or any of the Jackals as far as I am aware. 

So let me start at the beginning for some context.  I "woke up" and hear a big chunk of the group are going down to Cherno with some WolfPack.  I start making my way down there.  By the time I get there the base raid/defending themselves from an attempted kos had finished and so I ran to where a truck was found where some of my group were.

I get in, we pick up Wolfpack members, and as you hear in the stream, we were to go and grab @choccymilkboy27 AKA Dusty AKA the no-frills brand of Dustup (the AKA's are there as  I am not 100% sure this is the correct forum name and this should clear it up if I have @'d the wrong person), but @Joe had other ideas and left him (somewhere in or near Cherno if I remember correctly).

At some point @thicdickdaddy27 "wakes up" and is told we are heading to WP base (as that was what we were supposed to do originally before @Joe changed his mind) and I believe he said he was going to wait in the area for us outside of the base.

somewhere along the way we hear in IG comms from @thicdickdaddy27 that he is above WP base getting shot at and "is going to die" . We immediately tell @Joe to change direction and go to the WolfPack Base.  @thicdickdaddy27 then goes silent and unresponsive.  I believe @choccymilkboy27 continues to try and reach him via radio and @Apollo tries as well IG.  We hear nothing and we then assume he is down for the count,  but were not even 100% sure (see the timings given below which show I even asked the WP guys to check on him, which they appear to have ignored).

Through IG talking and IG information received from the OP's own group IG, we start piecing together exactly what had happened.  Again, to avoid all doubt, Everything I learned was IG and no OOC comms or info was relied upon, used or even received by myself.

We continue to RP all the way up with the Wolfpack members, and while we knew we technically now had kos rights on every single member of the wolfpack, due to the invalid kos and/or attempted kos, we chose to roleplay with them and to NOT RULEPLAY them.  As you can see from the stream, we get more agressive as we confirm facts and they basically know what is going to happen and go with it.

We get up to the base and use our acquired "Defensive Rights" on them after confirming they were in fact our targets.  The rights were validly acquired AFTER the invalid kos and/or attempted kos on our group member which is the subject of another report.

I then RP a little longer before running to the hospital, I get lagged out and jump right back in after restarting my router, I get internet problems again, resart my router and log back in again, then finally log.

 

EVIDENCE SHOWN IN THE STREAM SUPPORTING MY VERSION:

The stream itself shows that all info was acquired IG.  I note the following timestamps for staff:

3:46:27 - we tell the driver to turn around and go to WP base because there are shots there;
3:46:37 - I say he has gone silent;
3:47:06 - Apollo tries to make contact again;
3:49:00 - Hutch tells us their neighbours (doctors) are telling him that his men are shooting, Appollo tells him we think Big John may have gone down.  Hutch then states that he thinks the neighbours were fighting WP or WP was fighting them;
3:49:00 Jackals members say they are going up to kill the doctors now (NB not the WP as we think its doctors at this stage);
3:50:20 - WP member starts asking us IG if @thicdickdaddy27 was on a hill, bobby confirms and says yeah he had a gun out not pointing and the gun was a winchester
3:50:38 - WP member starts trying to tell us that @thicdickdaddy27 was on the hill shooting at WP members;
3:50:58 - WP member again claims there was someone on the hill shooting at them with a winchester;
3:51:17 - I ask WP to get their guys to check on @thicdickdaddy27;
3:51:30 - it becomes clear that they shot @thicdickdaddy27, we all knew what he had when he logged in;
3:55:00 - bobby asks hutch who did it and says if it was one of his boys it wont be good, hutch admits it was WP but says he doesnt know who. 
3:56:20 - DJ chance is asked if he knows who and he says he doesnt know, Bobby then asks who is in the compound and we are told Shelby, Ivan and Fish,  Bobby then asks if any of them shot.
3:57:10 - Apollo asks where the doctor peple are, Hutch says he doesnt think it was the doctors, he think it was his people.  He is told when we get there we want it sorted etc.
4:02:00 - Hutch says it wouldnt have been Fish.
4:02:38 - we get confirmation of who had shot at @thicdickdaddy27;
4:07:00 - I tell Hutch they better have them tied up and ready for us when we get there, hutch then goes on to say the only ones there are Ivan, Shelby and Fish but Fish had no involvement.


From this point onwards theres constant RP with Wolf Pack members about what is going to happen.

This clearly shows that the "what, who, how, when and where" were all found out through IG means!

 

EVIDENCE SHOWING WE ACQUIRED INFORMATION ABOUT THE SHOOTING BEFORE THE DEATH:

As definitive proof that the information regarding @thicdickdaddy27 was acquired IG and PRIOR to his death, we merely need to do a fairly simple exercise in Maths!

Lets compare the logs with the Stream Timings:

Key Server Timings:

Server time of Restart (When everyone DC'd) = 03:41:48

Server time of the death of @thicdickdaddy27 = 03:36:20

Difference in time between death and Restart = 5 minutes, 28 seconds.

 

Application to Stream timings:

Timing of Restart as shown on the stream linked as evidence = 03:51:58 into the stream.

Time of Death (Less Difference in time between death and Restart) = 3:46:30 as shown on stream

Time on stream of Jackals first notifying puncture that he needed to turn around and get to WolfPack Base urgently (AKA when @thicdickdaddy27 was telling us over IG comms of what was going on) = 3:46:27.

 

As you can see, even ignoring the lag between getting shot IG, telling us over comms and us receiving the comms which would actually add time for us to recieve the message from @thicdickdaddy27 , we responded IG about needing to get to WP base BEFORE HIS DEATH!

With that I think I have clearly put the final nail in the coffin of the OP's report.

 

THE "CLAPBACK":

Right, now  on to the obvious.  This is clearly a salty report and one which I believe falls within the confines of a "False Report".

It is clear from the OP's report, as well as that of his co-accuser, that they both have watched the stream.  That means that they have both seen all the information which I have highlighted in the stream timings above, which only leads to one conclusion, that they are fully aware that all information was acquired IG of what had happened and how we came to know who had killed our dear, beloved friend @thicdickdaddy27

In addition to the above point, they are both fully aware that they did in fact kos and attempt to kos @thicdickdaddy27 meaning that they are aware that as we are an official group, that we then acquired "Defensive rights" on them both (as shown by the logs, they were never shot but did shoot our group member).  Despite knowing this and knowing that we killed them both within the allowable time limit, they have still proceeded to put up this report.

While I note they have carefully cherrypicked things said by Puncture IG, they do not have the context, nor did they bother to find out what/who he was actually talking about.  They also knew that @thicdickdaddy27 was in helpdesk around this time as I understand he was there before them and left after them (a staff member may be able to confirm the accuracy of this statement, not sure who though).  Instead they have deliberately put up a salty and false report whilst trying to clutch on to the flimsiest of straws, with full knowledge that their claims are not even true.

Now I realise that a "false report" requires some kind of malicious intent or OOC motivations, and in this case I think I can easily demonstrate as much.  We can see that this is clearly a poor attempt at a tit-for-tat report as a result of this report.  In addition to this fact, I am advised by @thicdickdaddy27 that one or both of the reporting parties tried approximately 3 times to get him to drop the aformentioned report.  After being denied 3 times, this report was then put up in obvious retaliation.  As this is second hand information, perhaps @thicdickdaddy27 can shed some light on whether I have understood him correctly?  If I am accurate or close to accurate, then surely this crosses the threshold for "malicious intent or OOC motivations" which would mean that this is in fact a false report.

I would also argue that the behaviour of the parties reporting, would also fall into the category of being a breach of Rule 2.4 as they appear to be angry OOC after dying due to their own mistake in killing one of our guys without rights to do so.

 

Edited by Dustup

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14 minutes ago, Dustup said:

  In addition to this fact, I am advised by @thicdickdaddy27 that one or both of the reporting parties tried approximately 3 times to get him to drop the aformentioned report.  After being denied 3 times, this report was then put up in obvious retaliation.  As this is second hand information, perhaps @thicdickdaddy27 can shed some light on whether I have understood him correctly?  If I am accurate or close to accurate, then surely this crosses the threshold for "malicious intent or OOC motivations" which would mean that this is in fact a false report.

 

Yes, I can confirm that after I put up my report and before he put up this report, @cjackson821 had attempted about 3-4 times to get me to drop my report.

Edited by thicdickdaddy27

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Evidence of Metagaming in the stream:

3:46:30 - @Joe clearly talking to nonother than @thicdickdaddy27 saying “What do you mean your dead, you’re talking”

3:47:07 - @Joe continuing conversation through radio saying “your talking but your dead”

3:49:41 – still no one has confirmed that someone is dead at Wolf Pack Compound but the people in the truck are 100% sure that “Dewski is dead.” Then @Joe once again says he’s speaking in the radio and the other guys start trying to play it off.

3:50:08 - @Joe states “he said I’m dead”

3:50:28 – Someone says “with a gun out not pointed at the base” – How would one know this information when they are all the way south? Also they state not shooting at anyone – Once again, how would they know this information if they weren’t there

3:51:15 – “No he wasn’t shooting at anybody” – How would they know because none of them are there

Then they continue to press Wolf Pack members during this time, which is probably when @thicdickdaddy27 left to speak to @Aiko in the help desk

 

Other Claims:

I tried to speak to @thicdickdaddy27 about the report and at no point do I tell him to drop it. I said I was willing to let bigons be bigons because we already knew about the metagamed information because @ImNovaaa was talking to us in discord about what people were saying in the truck. Also, if they really believed in their claims that it was a KOS, then they should know that you don’t get kill rights based on an invalid kill. So they either invalidly killed us or ruleplayed the situation by just shooting us the second they returned. We however were under the belief that @thicdickdaddy27 was over the situation per our conversation in the help desk when he said something along the lines of “whatever you guys are good and you can leave.” So when Jackals then arrived and just shot us without any interaction, we believed it was a more along the lines of washing hands clean of situation, therefore we weren’t going to report the metagaming/invalid kill/ruleplay and the other report wasn’t going to go up. Few hours later and the report goes up by @thicdickdaddy27. So, I thought I would attempt to talk to him about it before responding because I thought the situation was washed hands clean. So, once things were clarified that it wasn’t that type of thing, I responded with my POV and put of the report of their wrong doing, which anyone should do. No one should be afraid to point out someone else’s wrong doing just because they have a report up against them. I have no OOC hate for anyone in the Jackals, mostly because I hardly even interact with them in game. Also, I am not angry about dying, I am just disappointed that nothing of the situation could’ve been roleplayed out and Jackals just decided to kill instead of roleplay.

Edited by cjackson821

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Also, I was told to make a separate report by @Aiko and not to bring this up in the other report. So, this is in no way backlash because this would've have been brought up in the other report if I wasn't told to make separate one. 

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I am calling in @Joe to provide some clarity around the below quoted remarks.

22 hours ago, thicdickdaddy27 said:

This report has a lot of baseless claims about metagaming my death to who I assume is because of @Joe . There is absolutely no proof in the evidence provided in the video that suggests it is me talking to @Joe or @Joe is talking to me.

17 hours ago, cjackson821 said:

Evidence of Metagaming in the stream:

3:46:30 - @Joe clearly talking to nonother than @thicdickdaddy27 saying “What do you mean your dead, you’re talking”

3:47:07 - @Joe continuing conversation through radio saying “your talking but your dead”

3:49:41 – still no one has confirmed that someone is dead at Wolf Pack Compound but the people in the truck are 100% sure that “Dewski is dead.” Then @Joe once again says he’s speaking in the radio and the other guys start trying to play it off.

3:50:08 - @Joe states “he said I’m dead”

3:50:28 – Someone says “with a gun out not pointed at the base” – How would one know this information when they are all the way south? Also they state not shooting at anyone – Once again, how would they know this information if they weren’t there

3:51:15 – “No he wasn’t shooting at anybody” – How would they know because none of them are there

Then they continue to press Wolf Pack members during this time, which is probably when @thicdickdaddy27 left to speak to @Aiko in the help desk

 

@Joe Do you believe you were talking to @thicdickdaddy27 during the above referenced points in the stReam?

Thank you!

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I was running down to cherno, trying to catch up with the boys who were already there in a truck, when dew starts yelling in comms that he's getting shot at and that he is gonna die. He then left for the helpdesk to figure out who KOSd him, when we start getting people to unmute and tell puncture to turn around. Puncture unmutes and hears half of what I'm saying in comms and starts double-micing his responses for some reason. He was trying to meme and make a joke but it clearly didn't pan out how he wanted it to and caused more confusion.

Anyways, when I get to the wolfpack compound, I wait for the truck to arrive to take retribution on the people who killed my bb Dewski. The truck pulls up, the boys hop out and they kill the two.

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More evidence to show that  @thicdickdaddy27was the one who was talking because of them linking “im dead” and “im taking shots” to the same person , that person being @thicdickdaddy27

Edited by Blizna

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6 hours ago, Rover said:

@Joe Do you believe you were talking to @thicdickdaddy27 during the above referenced points in the stReam?

Thank you!

Hello!
No, I was responding to something dusty said

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51 minutes ago, Blizna said:

More evidence to show that  @thicdickdaddy27was the one who was talking because of them linking “im dead” and “im taking shots” to the same person , that person being @thicdickdaddy27

Yes, I can take 3 second clips out of context as well and make it look like someone is breaking rules, haha very cool.

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So, coincidentally someone else died at the same time and said "I'm dead," but the only person's death everyone cares about is Dewski's? Pretty ironic. 

But, also still doesn't explain how people would know that "he wasn't aiming." 

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7 minutes ago, cjackson821 said:

So, coincidentally someone else died at the same time and said "I'm dead," but the only person's death everyone cares about is Dewski's? Pretty ironic. 

But, also still doesn't explain how people would know that "he wasn't aiming." 

Not sure how you're getting any of that from what was written, but as I said and as puncture said, he was responding to me, misunderstanding the situation, thinking I was the dead one speaking when I was explaining that dew was getting shot at and died because he left the channel. 

Also I don't think you understand the word ironic.

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19 hours ago, cjackson821 said:

Evidence of Metagaming in the stream:

3:46:30 - @Joe clearly talking to nonother than @thicdickdaddy27 saying “What do you mean your dead, you’re talking”

3:47:07 - @Joe continuing conversation through radio saying “your talking but your dead”

3:49:41 – still no one has confirmed that someone is dead at Wolf Pack Compound but the people in the truck are 100% sure that “Dewski is dead.” Then @Joe once again says he’s speaking in the radio and the other guys start trying to play it off.

3:50:08 - @Joe states “he said I’m dead”

3:50:28 – Someone says “with a gun out not pointed at the base” – How would one know this information when they are all the way south? Also they state not shooting at anyone – Once again, how would they know this information if they weren’t there

3:51:15 – “No he wasn’t shooting at anybody” – How would they know because none of them are there

Then they continue to press Wolf Pack members during this time, which is probably when @thicdickdaddy27 left to speak to @Aiko in the help desk

 

Other Claims:

I tried to speak to @thicdickdaddy27 about the report and at no point do I tell him to drop it. I said I was willing to let bigons be bigons because we already knew about the metagamed information because @ImNovaaa was talking to us in discord about what people were saying in the truck. Also, if they really believed in their claims that it was a KOS, then they should know that you don’t get kill rights based on an invalid kill. So they either invalidly killed us or ruleplayed the situation by just shooting us the second they returned. We however were under the belief that @thicdickdaddy27 was over the situation per our conversation in the help desk when he said something along the lines of “whatever you guys are good and you can leave.” So when Jackals then arrived and just shot us without any interaction, we believed it was a more along the lines of washing hands clean of situation, therefore we weren’t going to report the metagaming/invalid kill/ruleplay and the other report wasn’t going to go up. Few hours later and the report goes up by @thicdickdaddy27. So, I thought I would attempt to talk to him about it before responding because I thought the situation was washed hands clean. So, once things were clarified that it wasn’t that type of thing, I responded with my POV and put of the report of their wrong doing, which anyone should do. No one should be afraid to point out someone else’s wrong doing just because they have a report up against them. I have no OOC hate for anyone in the Jackals, mostly because I hardly even interact with them in game. Also, I am not angry about dying, I am just disappointed that nothing of the situation could’ve been roleplayed out and Jackals just decided to kill instead of roleplay.

I would just like to point out that since I was able to definitively show that we knew abut @thicdickdaddy27 and that all info was gained IG, the OP and his co-reporter have started clamoring to cherry pick things out of that stream in an attempt to put their own spin on things without context or proof of such things, even after confirmation that it wasn't @thicdickdaddy27 talking, knowledge that he couldn't have been talking as he was in helpdesk at the time of that last clip and the others, plus confirmation in my pov of how we were able to find out IG. 

So here is what I think we can agree on what was or became known to the two people reporting:

  • Prior to the two of them shooting and killing @thicdickdaddy27, no wolfpack member, including themselves had been initiated on or shot by any member of the Jackals.  Pretty sure they even admit in the stream that there were snaps against the walls that they heard, not actual shots, and even if there were shots (which they have provided no evidence to show) I am pretty sure that their base does not count as an official member of the WP group.
  • They both shot at and/or killed @thicdickdaddy27 and there is no absolutely no evidence to show either of them getting shot by him at all.
  • We had rights on them after they killed @thicdickdaddy27 (Invalid initiations and kills grant rights to those who have been invalidly initiated on and their official group members).
  • We knew about our guy taking shots and that he was possibly going to die BEFORE he died.
  • The reporters have watched the stream and know the contents of it.
  • We acknowledge he went quiet and even people in the truck try to re-establish contact with him.
  • Their own guys told us IC that the reporters had shot our guy after their own investigation.
  • That we had another group member IG and in comms who was not in the truck and whom anyone watching the stream could not have heard, i.e. @choccymilkboy27.

 

Now here is what they didn't know, but had assumed and has since been clarified:

  • Who @Joe was actually responding to (clarified to show he was in fact speaking to @choccymilkboy27)

 

Here is the actual evidence that they have "proving" that it was @thicdickdaddy27 talking and not @choccymilkboy27:

  • *crickets*

 

Theyhave also clearly cherrypicked clips out of the whole stream knowing that the stream clearly shows how ALL INFORMATION was found out IG using IG and IC means.  Maybe I am misunderstanding them though, are they also saying that the information given to us IG was metagamed by their own group and then given to us IG?  If that is the case, we can't be blamed for receiving information IG that appeared to come from IG sources and they need to create a report against their own group members.  Maybe I can go through the stream and help them pick any metagaming out by their own guys done in the presence of our group members and list it here to assist in that report if that is what they are claiming?  To he OP and Co, would this be of any assistance?  I am always happy to help.

 

To Staff, given the above (especially the provable cherry-picking and the fact that they had watched the stream and would have seen that all info was provided IG, as well as the clarification they have and zero pevidence to show otherwise) I hope that you can see that this is in fact a false report that they should not want to continue with.

 

I will refrain from posting any more unless asked by staff.

 

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Verdict

Metagaming - @thicdickdaddy27 - Inconclusive

Ruleplay - @Bobby-kun - Guilty

Ruleplay - @Apollo - Guilty

Rukeplay - @Dustup -Guilty

 

Reasoning

A Staff team has looked over the report and have come to the following conclusion.
 

Metagaming

Looking through all the video evidence, including our own of the help desk conversation. We were able to piece together a timeframe of when everything happened during this situation.

@thicdickdaddy27 is killed at 0336 server time, and at around the same time is when it is mentioned in the stream clip that he is dead. Due to us not knowing who spoke in their radio communications, we can't fairly punish someone for metagaming. 

From 0336 server time to 0339 is the time he was not in the helpdesk with me, leaving three minutes when he could have given information. Yet without solid evidence to back up this claim, besides what is mentioned at 0336, it is not enough to say he metagamed anything. For all we know it could have been someone else mentioning it, as we do not have audio of their communications. 

Everything else was received from an IC standpoint, including the names given by the Wolfpack. Due to this we can't determine if metagaming accrued, as we can't take one persons word over the other.

Ruleplay

Regarding the kill on both @Blizna and @cjackson821, we found that the kill on them was completely rushed.

In the stream at timestamp 0433 we see everybody in the accused party asking for Ivan and Alex. Instead of continuing with the roleplay, and creating some cool and interesting conflict within what seems to be allied groups. @Bobby-kun, @Dustup and @Apollo decide to simply shoot them with the rights they have. This was rushed and generated no roleplay what so ever. It was a kill for the sake of it, destroying any chance for the roleplay to progress. Which is against the following rule.

1ccb2052410ad1a5783eca9bff3699c6.png

Just because you had kill rights on them, doesn't mean you needed to use them and in such a quick manner. For this, we find the three of you who opened fire on them guilty of Ruleplay.

 

Suggestions

We would like to remind everybody that when transferring IC information via discord or other third party programs that the information should strictly be treated as in-character, meaning after your death you are unable to pass such information to your allies.

Always remember to prioritize roleplay over any kill rights you may have. In this situation you could have captured the two individuals, moved them to a secure location within the compound or even loaded them onto your truck and taken them away before engaging in creative and enjoyable roleplay by questioning and/or torturing them.

 

Outcome

@thicdickdaddy27 - Metagaming - INCONCLUSIVE 

@Bobby-kun - Ruleplay - 5 DAY BAN, 10 WARNING POINTS

@Apollo - Ruleplay - 5 DAY BAN, 10 WARNING POINTS

@Dustup - Ruleplay - 5 DAY BAN, 10 WARNING POINTS
 

Verdict and signed by @Aiko , @Inferno , and @Conor

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