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Rederaz

Initiation on vehicle passengers...

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I normally wouldn't have much of an issue with this but it's happened twice in the past week (see both linked videos below for further detail). It just feels unfair that vehicle passengers are susceptible to being killed when only the driver of said vehicle is the non-compliant one.

So with that my question is presented: should there be a possible edit to the rules to help protect compliant players from being killed in these vehicle-related initiations?

My two recent unfortunate ends:

https://plays.tv/video/5de1ee5488707283f1/the-truck-crashes-then-an-initiation- 

 

https://plays.tv/video/5de45d67a0aa7390b1/yes-

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Unlucky how it happened. Thought it was a pre setup ambush from the roleplay we were doing but I think they just wanted the car. Bad luck that they decided to shoot the two hostages. Riparoni. Good rp though bro sorry it was 3 hours of hyped up rp to just have ya shot by randoms if that was the case. 

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1 minute ago, Undead said:

Unlucky how it happened. Thought it was a pre setup ambush from the roleplay we were doing but I think they just wanted the car. Bad luck that they decided to shoot the two hostages. Riparoni. Good rp though bro sorry it was 3 hours of hyped up rp to just have ya shot by randoms if that was the case. 

Yeah completely agree. Luckily for us, Georgia's already hot on the case of making sure the rp continues. Dr. Red is somewhere safe being treated by our other doctors. Certainly a momentous rp experience for Dr. Red, first time he's had to reveal his past, too!

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I would like an answer to this question as well - I have been in a full truck where the driver didn't comply, and it seemed pretty shady to have the driver non-comply and the rest of the truck sprayed down.

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That would just be rule armor, if the driver doesn't comply then it's your fault for getting in with a non compliant driver and if your a hostage and it's a rescue your friends are to blame not the driver.
Simply put it, driver doesn't stop the car but there is no way to kill him because the people in the back can't be shot due to rules that are now a thing the car drives off and people just continue using others in the back as meat shields, or driver tries to get away to save his life but now rules prevent him from doing so due to people being in the back and him getting hit with a ban due to them getting in his car.
No rules fit or could be done fairly here.

Edited by Eagle
Fixing stuff

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3 minutes ago, Eagle said:

That would just be rule armor if the driver doesn't comply then it's your fault for getting in with a non compliant driver.
Simply put it, driver doesn't stop the car but there is no way to kill him because the people in the back can't be shot due to rules that are now a thing the car drives off and people just continue using others in the back as meat shields  how is that any better?

That's a good point and that's why this question is such a compelling one; it can make for some great discussion. I think that maybe if the driver was forced to be the targeted player, then that could give passengers to either get out and shoot back or to comply. The initiator would simply have to make sure to only initiate upon a vehicle so long as they're certain that they have a clear and somewhat constant shot on the driver. But even then, there's still the "meat shield" argument. We'll have to see the admins' take on this.

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8 minutes ago, Rederaz said:

That's a good point and that's why this question is such a compelling one; it can make for some great discussion. I think that maybe if the driver was forced to be the targeted player, then that could give passengers to either get out and shoot back or to comply. The initiator would simply have to make sure to only initiate upon a vehicle so long as they're certain that they have a clear and somewhat constant shot on the driver. But even then, there's still the "meat shield" argument. We'll have to see the admins' take on this.

With how chaotic situations like that can be that wouldn't be fair to have certain angles needed to kill x person best to keep it simple.

Edited by Eagle

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11 minutes ago, Eagle said:

With how chaotic situations like that can be that wouldn't be fair to have certain angles needed to kill x person best to keep it simple.

I would like to assume that initiations take some more preparatory decision making than that. It seems too often that simply because someone has a vehicle that they must make an effort to take it. I get it, they're a commodity. But we have to take into account gearRP. And after all, before an attacker even gets into an initiation, they must set aside 30 minutes of ensured, continuous play on the server. So let's make sure they're less a "chaotic situation" with minimal rp, but rather, a planned assault? I'm sorry, it's just a shame to have 3 hours of great rp ended by a completely un-involved player who was car-hungry. I was completely powerless in the whole scenario by being held hostage with restrained hands, thus not even being to exit the moving vehicle even if I wished to comply on a whim.

But if admins do agree with you (and I do agree, a change to the rules would make things complicated), then it seems I'll be either having a talk with the driver before-hand (if I'm in the car willingly), or demanding that I drive. Dr. Red is certainly a complying individual. 😅

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Honestly, I think this depends on the situation. 

If people are running up to an already moving vehicle and the truck is driving off and possibly swerving, it is going to be hard to not hit other people and in that type of situation I think the shooters haven't done anything wrong if they choose to attempt to shoot the driver but hit hostages. 

If the vehicle is stopped and the initiators have time to set up (as I would argue they should have done better in the 1st video) they should attempt to get at least 1 person in front of the vehicle and attempt to take out the driver easier if they decide to drive off, or attempt to take out the vehicle if they are close enough.  Having said that, sometimes it's easier said than done.

Hostages shouldn't be taken out IF initiators can clearly hit the driver or disable the vehicle instead without hitting hostages.

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These situations are pretty clear cut. Like others said when you get in the car you basically are in the hands of the driver. If he crashes the car and kills you, you don't report that for KOS. Same happens if you get initiated on. If the driver decides not to comply, I'll make sure to spray that car down and makes sure it's not moving an inch.

3 hours ago, Rederaz said:

I was completely powerless in the whole scenario by being held hostage with restrained hands, thus not even being to exit the moving vehicle even if I wished to comply on a whim.

If you get taken hostage, put in the car, then the car gets initiated on but the driver doesn't comply and you die then that is on the driver and falls under no care for hostage. You can't blame the people shooting the car as there is no way to know you are a hostage. The driver however is aware that you are there forcefully and him not complying puts you at risk of death.

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It's very difficult to create a fair rule about this, like mentioned above. Therefore we recommend that it's handled by players themselves. Stay vigilant and do not get into vehicles with someone you don't trust. And if you do and you get killed because of the drivers, handle that with him, for example by never getting into vehicle with them in the future, not hanging out with them or kicking them from the group.

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30 minutes ago, Roland said:

It's very difficult to create a fair rule about this, like mentioned above. Therefore we recommend that it's handled by players themselves. Stay vigilant and do not get into vehicles with someone you don't trust. And if you do and you get killed because of the drivers, handle that with him, for example by never getting into vehicle with them in the future, not hanging out with them or kicking them from the group.

Oh well, show's over, folks. Thank you for the reply, Roland — and to everybody else who took interest in the thread! I'll be sure to steer clear of any unsavory drivers from now on. 😉

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