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cjackson821

Indirect Threatening

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I've seen multiple times now on the server where people use indirect threats against an individual as a form of warning. However, I feel its a bit of a gray area on whether it is a form of initiation or not. So I thought it would be nice to get some peoples opinions on the matter to get a better understanding of indirect threats and how it incorporates into the rules. 

Let me give you a scenario: You and your friends are just chatting casually with some people you just ran into. One of the guys insists on keeping his weapon out despite you and your friends feeling uncomfortable. So, you ask him to kindly put his weapon away, but he comes back with some attitude and says "No." So, you say that you don't want him to get hurt or anyone else.

In the scenario, could that be taken as a threat, thus a form of initiation? What other circumstances could elevate that statement to an initiation (ie. having a weapon out yourself)? Or what about in terms of bases... how many warnings of indirect threats can a person give before someone can take that as a form of initiation?  

The discussion doesn't have to stick to just my example of indirect threats. Maybe someone has a better example, but that is just an example of a scenario that I have seen myself. 

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I dont think it would be initiation, but it could definitely be seen as ruleplay if you were to kill the person who said that, especially if there unarmed

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21 minutes ago, cjackson821 said:

snip

4.1 All initiations and hostile actions as well as their demands and conditions must be made clear and unambiguous to all involved players. Hostile actions or initiations must be done personally and on specific targets who must be aware who the attacker is, for example they cannot be done remotely through radio or PA system.

 

Clear and unambiguous is key. The staff team is the final deciding factor in what makes something clear and unambiguous.

I can tell you that saying "I don't want you to get hurt." without a gun pointed at them or an obvious threat included isn't something I'd consider an initiation. Its strong-arming, leading up to the inevitable initiation.

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Initiations need to be as clear as day. They need to present a demand and a consequence.

The most classic one: "Put your hands up or you die." The demand here is clear, you want people to put their hands up, and the consequence is also given meaning that the victims will know if they don't put their hands up, it will result in their death.

However, the consequence doesn't always have to be mentioned. For example if I were to say "Put your hands up" with a gun pointed at you then that'd be just as good as any other initiation, as the consequence is clearly understood by me pointing a gun at you.

Using words such as "Do X or sth bad might happen/or else/or you don't want to see what's coming next" or any other combination that doesn't clearly indicate one's intention is not considered an initiation as it's quite ambiguous and can be interpreted differently by others.

Indirect threats will therefor not be seen as an initiation and in fact are mostly used in strong arming situations or in hostile encounters when the aggressive party doesn't necessarily want to initiate but just invoke fear or intimidate the other group.

 

 

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As long as you are given a demand and there is clear hostile intent I'd class it as an initiation.

 

As stated above by @AndreyQ, if someone is yelling at you to put your hands up while pointing a rifle, it's universally understood that if you do not do as he instructed he will use the rifle he is waving in your face.

 

A good initiation has the following.

1. Clear Instructions

2. Visible intent to cause harm

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All you have to do is point your gun and your threat is valid, simple.

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1 hour ago, cjackson821 said:

gray area

This is was hostile rp needs , tho.
If you hang out with someone ig and that person carries a weapon in his/her hands - it can have many ic reasons. If you ask that person to holster their weapon and they go: "Fuck you, don't tell me what to do."  - There you have it a hostile rp impulse you can work with and create a situation together. It does not have to be about initiation or not all the time - fucking role play. 

If you, for yourself need to be sure about it badly, in that scenario - take your weapon out , point it and tell that person to holster their gun - then you can be sure to work with a direct threat.

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7 hours ago, cjackson821 said:

I've seen multiple times now on the server where people use indirect threats against an individual as a form of warning. However, I feel its a bit of a gray area on whether it is a form of initiation or not. So I thought it would be nice to get some peoples opinions on the matter to get a better understanding of indirect threats and how it incorporates into the rules. 

Let me give you a scenario: You and your friends are just chatting casually with some people you just ran into. One of the guys insists on keeping his weapon out despite you and your friends feeling uncomfortable. So, you ask him to kindly put his weapon away, but he comes back with some attitude and says "No." So, you say that you don't want him to get hurt or anyone else.

In the scenario, could that be taken as a threat, thus a form of initiation? What other circumstances could elevate that statement to an initiation (ie. having a weapon out yourself)? Or what about in terms of bases... how many warnings of indirect threats can a person give before someone can take that as a form of initiation?  

The discussion doesn't have to stick to just my example of indirect threats. Maybe someone has a better example, but that is just an example of a scenario that I have seen myself. 

Its not an intiation as the rule 4.1 says "All initiations and hostile actions as well as their demands and conditions must be made clear and unambiguous to all involved players.".

In your example the guy asks him to put his weapon out, but does not threat his life. Quite clear.

Edit: From personal experience ive been asked to put my weapon away many times, but i have refused. Then they continue either by intiating to me, or just let it be. And same has happened me being as the intiator. Its not a threat unless they clearly say it for example that you will get shot

Edited by Itsmez

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