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NorwayRP

11/08/2019 Unknown Time, Chernarus, No time To Comply, Invalid Kill, Metagaming

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Server and location: Chernarus S1

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME): 11/08/2019 maybe around 01:00 or the day previous not entirely sure North of Kabanino 

Your in game name: Arri Graham

Names of allies involved: The Shepherds, Jackals

Name of suspect/s: @Joah @DuquesneLR and The Mob not sure who all was there

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any): 

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): 

 

Detailed description of the events: After finishing a firefight with some guys near Gary Cash house north of Kab I got ran up on from what I saw two guys wearing red armbands that Stella had just called out to me. Having no clue who they were decided to start shifting back until I was initiated on by Joah, I was going to comply up until I was shot at which point I pulled my FAL and tried to fight back seeing as it was pretty clear they had no intention of taking me alive. I went to aim for the one guy who initiated on me but the other man who didn't initiate dumped me.

I wasn't going to report since I didn't have any video but I was sent this comp their group made that clearly shows that Duqesnes starts shooting before the initiation was even halfway done. Not to mention the fact that he never even initiated.

Joah who actually initiated also shot.

For clarity's sake, this report is primarly directed towards those who did not initiate and who did not have rights. Meaning, Deqesnes and whoever else was there and attempted to invalidly kill me.

In the case this report does not get closed I would also like to add @Pipsinto the main report for attempted invalid kill seeing as she shot me without rights.

Edited by NorwayRP

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@NorwayRP - To start this according to @Ronnie we already had kill rights on you, Regardless of our initation. I'd ask that @Ronnie get pulled into this report as to clarify this statement as I'm not 100% sure on this.


You turned around right at the start of the gunfire. through the initiation (as gunfire erupted not by me but Duquesne), and aimed a weapon at me, You also attempted to avoid RP by running away from the situation.(You kept your mic 100% silent and attempted to flee from a situation avoiding roleplay as a whole.)

Had you not aimed your weapon back directly towards me. I would not have opened fire. You can clearly see there is a delay in me watching to see if you would aim your weapon at me. Which obviously you responded to Duquese firing at you. That put me in the right of my initiation to retaliate regardless of whoever aimed or shot first.

For Clarity

#1. I waited for you to comply, You did not, you aimed your LAR at me. I shot you
#2.) I initiated (which is proper procedure)
#3.) You cannot see from Daquese's point of view you aiming your gun at me (as I initiated) as his gun is up in the air from firing.
#4.) You shot at me after Duquesne fired at you, regardless of that action, that gives me the green light to fire back at you, you already admitted that you fired back at me, this proves my innocence in this. 
Note the video of the person firing first is not me, I'm on the right side in the green. ~ Thanks


I followed all proper steps in regards to opening fire on you -- Initiation, Followed by watching you, your gun raised at me. I executed you. That's my PoV. There is no rule break on my end.

For you to say you were going to comply I don't know that (Makes it seem very victimish) you and I both know your group hardly or rarely complies, if you were going to, good on you 🙂. Doubtful however, who knows what would've happened. The mob is able to confirm that you did infact aim a weapon towards me before I opened fire as another PoV. I think you claiming that you were going to "comply" is you trying to play victim points. You had no intentions of complying. Thus why you were attempting to get distance with an LAR, and wanted to take the 1v2 as you felt you could take it. I've been in this rodeo for a very long time there is a huge X for doubt on that one.

If anything this report should be pointed @DuquesneLR for his direct response on him firing early or whatever his case may have been.

To add further to this report. 

Your group also had an admin pull logs to review who killed who at the end of this fight. I'd ask that @Roland look at the time of this fight if he is able to view logs of which admin viewed the logs during this firefight and gave your group the logs as these are items that are meant to be requested for a report, not simply granted at your request as we both are well aware. If @Roland would like to speak to me directly about this, I'm more than happy to explain where this information came from and point you in the right direction as to avoid a public callout <3. 

If you'd wish to speak about this further Norway, Im more than happy to.

I'm more than happy for this situation to be pointed more towards Duquesne as this does seem premature but according to @Ronnie we had kill rights.


But as previously stated I waited for you to aim a gun towards me to open fire. My kill was valid. as for Duquesne, the video quality is bad, I can't tell if you turned around in the vid. But I know for a fact you DID NOT comply and aimed in the direction of Myself, the mob, and Duquesne. The mob can validate the fact that you did infact aim in my direction, and you paid the price for it.

Thank you admin team for your review on this. 🙂 

Edited by Joah

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i) You didn't wait over 3-4 seconds for me to comply.
ii) Logs are irrelevant, don't know why you're even bringing that up? I simply reported after watching the PVP montage and seeing there's evidence so that I could report the situation.
iii) You didn't give me enough time to comply and I also got shot at before being given any time to comply hence why I pulled my gun out AFTER BEING SHOT AT without being given any time to comply, since by the looks of things you were set on killing me and breaking the rules.
Also as you can see more clearly from this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n884mrqxATI I can hear metagaming to drop an initiation happening between Joah and Duquesne since no hotmicing is done.
Also there's clearly more evidence since there's more to this video that is not included in the montage by Ronnie, hopefully you upload that soon. I'd now officially like to add metagaming to the report.

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@NorwayRP

I.) I do not need to wait for you to comply when you aim a weapon at me, that is hostile intent giving me rights to kill you --> I followed proper procedure. Initation, waited for you, you aimed a weapon back at me. I shot you. I do not need to wait 3-4 seconds to wait to see if you shoot at me. Demands were put your hands up, You turned and aimed a weapon at me. You did not listen to my demands along with your avoiding roleplay. (I also do not have eyes in the back of my head, for all I know that your people shooting at my people while I am aiming at you)
II.) Due to the fact that I would like this to be included in the report. If we're bringing up rulebreaks, I'd like to include my own. 🙂 Thanks for your concerns on this, as I have my own. Like -- Why am I the focus of this report? (Seems personal)
III.) You are again pulling at straws with this, --- > See answer 1

As for meta-gaming? I'd ask how exactly did I meta as you can clearly hear me double micing everything that I am doing. Again, I do not exactly understand why this report is pointed at me? Seems more of a personal issue with me than a rulebreak. My intention was to initiate regardless of @DuquesneLR saying anything in discord. I cannot control his actions. Only my own.

Your issue here is obviously with @DuquesneLR, not myself. You know I followed all proper rules for this, but I believe you're doing this for your personal vendetta against me.

 

Edited by Joah

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I aimed because I was shot at before being given the chance to put my hands up, in the video you can quite clearly hear someone say 'initiate' or even multiple people which you can't hear in-game. Don't know if it was you or someone else.
Also I don't know what you want included in this report or what kind of rulebreak you're even talking about concerning the logs
I was given no time to comply and was shot at so when people broke the rules I decided to try and defend myself since by the looks of things I was going to die anyway. When you're in a group, your group's actions also carry consequences on you.

Edited by NorwayRP

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@Joah Who's clip is that from the montage? 

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@NorwayRP 
You shot, I shot back. You answered your own question. It is heat of the moment. I waited for your action. You decided to fight back you literally just said it yourself. 

6 minutes ago, NorwayRP said:

I shot because I was shot at before being given the chance to put my hands up,

Your action: I shot back at @DuquesneLR
My Action: I shot back due to you not following "MY" demands. 

Other players actions do not reflect my own.

Norway admitting to him firing back puts me in the clear of the fact that me shooting back is valid. I waited to see how you would respond. You chose your actions. You could've waited to be killed by @DuquesneLR if this was infact "premature". And this would've been a 1 way report.

Your actions lead up to your consequences. 

Regardless of "defending yourself". I opened fire in retaliation to you aiming and firing directly at me. You were not aiming at @DuquesneLR when you turned around and shot at me.

I followed my initation to the end, waited to see what you would do. Opened fire when you opened fire. That is giving you time to comply. It is not my problem that you chose to fire back, it is also not my problem that someone else shot at you. End of story.

2 minutes ago, Randy said:

@Joah Who's clip is that from the montage? 

I'm not 100% sure. I'd ask @DuquesneLR or @Ronnie

Edited by Joah

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Calling in @Ronnie & @DuquesneLR for their POV. Along with any video evidence that they have. Also, can you please state who's clip that is in the montage.

Thanks

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@JoahYou were involved in the initiation which led to an invalid kill due to being given no time to comply, you also shot at me after I was given no time to comply, this is my last reply to this report.
I'd like for the GMs to investigate this the metagaming as well, thanks.

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6 minutes ago, NorwayRP said:

@JoahYou were involved in the initiation which led to an invalid kill due to being given no time to comply, you also shot at me after I was given no time to comply, this is my last reply to this report.
I'd like for the GMs to investigate this the metagaming as well, thanks.

Again, I am replying. Your beef is with another person who you claim gave you no time to comply.

I shot at you for aiming a gun at me and opening fire at me.

For that you paid the price and were executed for not listening to my demands. If your intentions were to comply, you would not have been running away. You also would not have fired back. You would've let actions play their course.

As for my personal report. I'd like to speak to @Roland about a staff member supplying position logs and kill logs for this specific group in general as this does include this specific situation. Thanks in advance for your careful consideration on this report.

Edited by Joah

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First of: Since the initiatior gave me 0 time to comply and shot at me and you are in an unofficial group, the kills after that are invalid, people attempting to kill me should also count as attempted invalid kills.
Second of all, go ahead and talk to Roland, nobody gave me logs. You can take your unrelated report about logs to PMs with Roland.

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@NorwayRP 

Saying the same thing over and over again doesn't prove a point.
People "attempting to kill you" as you open fire on them. Does not count as invalid.

Final Addition: You can see Norway's body fall as he's facing me in this video if you watch carefully. This proves that he did infact turn around and aim in my direction. And the accuser also stated he himself opened fire in general in retaliation to someone else's actions. (This clears me of any "wrong doing" and showing that I waited for his actions and followed out circumstances the way they normally would in Roleplay)

Thanks admins, I personally am done with the back and forth. I will only be replying to admins from this point forward.

Edited by Joah

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7 minutes ago, Joah said:

accuser also stated he himself opened fire on me

this is a lie, not once did I state I opened fire. As can be seen in my initial statement.

You're grasping at straws here, I said I tried to fight back, didn't say I shot you, even in my initial POV I said I aimed at the person who initiated on me, never opened fire. Also my body facing you does not mean that I had shot at you at any point, regardless the people that were there gave me 0 time to comply. You are included in that group and in situations like this it should be all the people that were present there be punished, especially you and the duqesnse since you didn't hesitate to pull the trigger and effectively gave me .5 milliseconds to comply.

The effect of this action is that your friend shoots me without rights, and with zero time to comply. Not even halfway through the initiation.

When you initiate if you give 0 time to comply it makes the initiation invalid, and invalid initiation makes all attempted kills and kills invalid. Meaning that both yourself and everyone else who opened fire at fault for you and your group mates actions.

Edited by NorwayRP

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3 hours ago, NorwayRP said:

I shot because I was shot at before being given the chance to put my hands up

Norway: "This is a lie" - Quoted..

I will let the admins decide what is wrong and what is right.

At the end of the day, the person who did not let you comply was not me.

I followed all rules and retaliated as a player following the rules would.

Your problem is with a different player, not myself. Thanks. It is clear that I fired back defending my own life as Norway opened fire on me not the person who shot first. To the admins. This report should solely be between @DuquesneLR and Norway. as Duquese fired while I was initiating, I cannot control another players actions. I can only simply follow out roleplay to how it would work as if it was a normal situation. I was fired upon, I fired back. Simple as that. Thanks again admin team.

There is no such thing as a "time limit" to how long I should wait to watch you until you fire at me while aiming directly at me.

"I am not responsible for someone else shooting at you, I do not have eyes in the back of my head. I have no clue who is shooting at what or why. I'm focused on you after initiating. You fired at me, I retaliated"

You shot at me, directly at me and aimed at "me". I fired back. I have the right to defend myself especially as an initiator. You and I have both claimed that we are "done" replying. So stop replying. Thank you. 

 

Edited by Joah

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Howdy. My pov right here. 

I follow Joah and we stumble into you. We try to walk up to you at first merely to ask what's up. You start running with your FN-Fal out, where as i do tell Joah to initiate.

While the video quality is absolute shit at showing it, from my view you were turning around ready to fight, hence my bit premature firing (guilty on that one). I'll see if i still got the clip once i come home from work.

Tl:dr. I see Norway turning around with his gun out ready for a fight, hence i shoot even though Joah is still yelling his initiation.

I'd also add that we were way more than two running after you. If anything you should've been reported for NVFL as me and Joah had at least another 6 people behind us.

Also @Randy Where's the logs such as hit logs.

Edited by DuquesneLR
I just woke up and i dont know how to express myself

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18 minutes ago, DuquesneLR said:

I'd also add that we were way more than two running after you. If anything you should've been reported for NVFL as me and Joah had at least another 6 people behind us.

I only saw two, along with this only one person initiated. Since you aren't official none of those people can shoot just cause Joah initiated. Meaning that as far as the situation is concerned it was a 1v1 initiation with an additional attempting to KOS me.

Edited by NorwayRP

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1 minute ago, NorwayRP said:

I only saw two, along with this only one person initiated. Since you aren't official none of those people can shoot just cause Joah initiated. Meaning that as far as the situation is concerned it was a 1v1 initiation with an additional attempting to KOS me.

Pretty sure you said you'd only reply to the admins.

 

Neverthless I won't go into a back and forth with you, I'd like to wait for the logs to actually be posted.

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KILL LOGS

Spoiler

00:19:02 | Player "Arri Graham" (DEAD) killed by Player "Izak Dvorak" with M4A1 from 28.4674 meters 

HIT LOGS

Spoiler

00:19:02 | Player "Arri Graham" hit by Player "Michael Duquesne" with AKM from 41.3303 meters 
00:19:02 | Player "Arri Graham" hit by Player "Michael Duquesne" with AKM from 41.3303 meters 
00:19:02 | Player "Arri Graham" hit by Player "Izak Dvorak" with M4A1 from 28.2345 meters 
00:19:02 | Player "Arri Graham" hit by Player "Izak Dvorak" with M4A1 from 28.4674 meters 
00:19:02 | Player "Arri Graham" hit by Player "Izak Dvorak" with M4A1 from 28.3846 meters 
00:19:02 | Player "Arri Graham" hit by Player "Izak Dvorak" with M4A1 from 28.672 meters 
00:19:03 | Player "Arri Graham" hit by Player "Izak Dvorak" with M4A1 from 28.6092 meters 
00:19:03 | Player "Arri Graham" hit by Player "Gia King" with AK-101 from 56.8866 meters 

POSITION LOGS

Players in immediate vicinity to the situation. All individuals will not be called in (for now), but will be noted for ease of calling in eventual involved parties.

Spoiler

00:18:23 | Player "Frederik Niclassen" (pos=<5215.8, 8631.4, 341.3>) 
00:18:23 | Player "Martin Bjornstad" (pos=<5164.6, 8628.2, 345.4>) 
00:18:23 | Player "Izak Dvorak" (pos=<5241.7, 8637.4, 341.2>) 
00:18:23 | Player "Eve Walker" (pos=<5409.0, 8525.1, 331.1>) 
00:18:23 | Player "Gia King" (pos=<5245.0, 8644.7, 340.9>) 
00:18:23 | Player "Michael Duquesne" (pos=<5197.2, 8630.9, 341.7>) 
00:18:23 | Player "Evgeni Federov" (pos=<5219.8, 8631.5, 341.3>) 
00:18:23 | Player "Leo Hammer" (pos=<5166.1, 8623.2, 345.6>) 
00:18:23 | Player "Paul Pinkerton" (pos=<5137.7, 8622.4, 346.9>) 
00:18:23 | Player "Benedict Falk" (pos=<5407.5, 8568.1, 330.6>) 

00:18:23 | Player "Arri Graham" (pos=<5271.6, 8733.6, 338.6>)

CONNECTION LOGS

Spoiler

23:55:12 | Player "Arri Graham" is connected
00:19:33 | Player "Arri Graham" has been disconnected
-DEAD-

23:09:18 | Player "Izak Dvorak" is connected
00:23:54 | Player "Izak Dvorak" has been disconnected
00:24:09 | Player "Izak Dvorak" is connected
00:31:19 | Player "Izak Dvorak" has been disconnected
00:31:45 | Player "Izak Dvorak" is connected
01:04:41 | Player "Izak Dvorak" has been disconnected

23:11:09 | Player "Michael Duquesne" is connected
00:56:00 | Player "Michael Duquesne" has been disconnected

23:09:49 | Player "Gia King" is connected
00:26:36 | Player "Gia King" has been disconnected
00:31:50 | Player "Gia King" is connected
01:44:07 | Player "Gia King" has been disconnected

Calling in the following individuals for their POV and any un-edited video evidence they may have.

 @DuquesneLR please upload the FULL UN-EDITED video from his encounter.

 @NorwayRP - Arri Graham - OP
 @Joah - Izak Dvorak - POSTED
 @DuquesneLR - Michael Duquesne - POSTED
 @Pips - Gia King - POSTED

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@Hofer Can you gather a few GMs and just /end this report. Here comes my final say.

I fully admit to the fact that i did shoot prematurely.

I fully admit that i actually did not have kill rights, but that was more of a product that its the first time since joining this community that ive not been in an approved group, and to be quite honest with you, completely forgot that i wasn't in one.

I also fully admit to the metagaming with not hotmicing the initiation.

As for @NorwayRP And NVFL. I wanted to originally leave it alone, and to be quite honest don't want to pursue it either. Whether the staff takes it into consideration or not is up to them.

I admit to my mistakes and I am ready to go on a small vacation. I do not believe anyone should be hit for me screwing up the situation. As it is an honest mistake on their part.

- While i can check when i get home, i don't believe i have the un-edited clip as i usually delete the non relevant parts after i have clipped what i needed. Due to limited hard drive space.

 

Edit: Yeah I deleted it after clipping it. Didn't think it'd become relevant.

 

Edited by DuquesneLR

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Gia King POV: 

We arrive at Kabanino and hear a bunch of shots. As we go further into the town, I hear a couple of snaps coming our way and call it out so people are aware. Already being on edge, we see Norway standing next to a car, I think he was looting a dead body, not sure though. 
He sees us and immediately starts running away from the group after the guys attempt to talk to him. 
I am told on the radio that we are gonna initiate, so as Joah initiates, I do too but must have been still on whisper from before to not yell around when I'm talking on the radio. I didn't realize until I saw the clip, so yeah, I fucked up there and apologize for my stupid mistake. I see Norway turning and raising his gun so I go to raise mine as people are already shooting. I start shooting and end up hitting a already dead, dropping body.

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My POV: Completely irrelevant to the situation at hand as I believe I was muted during this situation and at a completely different location. I'm just the guy who put the clips together and only saw the clip last night for the first time. I only know as much as the viewers do.

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New evidence has been found and we're currently fixing it up and will be posting a proper response once it is sorted.

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@DuquesneLR Please post the evidence as soon as possible. Make sure that the video evidence is unedited.

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Apologies for the wait.
since the discussion went back and forth whether or not @NorwayRP was NVFL'ing or not, there was no definite evidence to actually prove such.
After a long day of awaiting this report to be finished, one of our group mates @maybelele finally spoke up as he said he had a video of it all happening from a different angle.
And those angles showed a lot.

I'll do this very point by point, and show you three different clips. 2 edited ones to highlight it further, and the 1 unedited version.
So without further ado, let's start by going down the statements.



 

On 11/12/2019 at 5:35 AM, NorwayRP said:

hence why I pulled my gun out AFTER BEING SHOT AT

This one is fairly easy. In the second vid that @NorwayRP posted that was clipped by me (and you can also see it in the others), you can easily see that he is running with a gun out due to the animation. Him stating that he "pulled my gun out AFTER BEING SHOT AT" is a total fabrication.

 

 

On 11/12/2019 at 4:42 AM, NorwayRP said:

I was going to comply up until I was shot at

This one can be dismissed from the new video evidence. From my first statement, and while I've admitted that I did shoot very fast- I always told that I swear I saw him turn around and point his gun before I quickly scoped in and shot towards him. From the sound and video you can clearly hear and see that he is already turned around by the point that I start shooting towards him.
Evidence: 

And 
 

Spoiler

 

In the videos you can -clearly- see that he turns himself all the while pointing his gun, seeking to get a cheeky flick in before eventually succumbing to the barrage of us three.
This makes his statement invalid as he was clearly not complying.


 

 

On 11/12/2019 at 4:42 AM, NorwayRP said:

I was going to comply up until I was shot at which point I pulled my FAL

Reefer to the above videos. Non-compliance as clearly seen in the videos, with both turning whilst aiming. Nor did he pull out his gun as it was already out.

 

On 11/12/2019 at 8:27 AM, NorwayRP said:

I only saw two, along with this only one person initiated.

In the videos you can see we're actually 6 in the near vicinity. 4-5 of which is clear and visible in your sight, with Frederik on the right running towards you, and Martin standing at his angle smack down in the middle of the street. With 3 of us being straight in your sight.

It is clear that not only is he lying, but deliberately lying. Someone does not forget turning around with a pointed gun as they're getting initiated on.
The videos show clearly how many we are, 4-5 being in your view, with 3 of us being up close to you.
You turn around with your gun pointing towards @Joah, and it is -FIRST- when you've completely turned around, gun aimed towards @Joah that I pull my first shot as seen and heard in the videos.

Of course, this is not gonna excuse my own wrongdoings such as forgetting to hotmic it, as well as forgetting to initiate. I take full responsibility for that.

Here is the full and unedited clip:  

 

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