The Current Whitelist

[Ryan Shepherd 1851]

Hello everyone.

The new wave of players is fun I have to say, brought some different groups, different people to interact with however there are some major issues:

 

1. OOC communication in VOIP

I have heard far too many times people talking about rules, discord, inventory, their food is flashing etc. This is the most unacceptable rule to break, if they can not understand that OOC communication does not fit in VOIP, how can they understand the rest of the rules?

 

2. Not understanding execution rights.

I have witnessed far too many executing fully compliant hostages, no matter what they did, it's always been far too early.

 

3. Not understanding KoS rights / NOT INITIATING.

This is the most infuriating one. For example, last night I was in Vybor, the shop was boarded off, I shouted hello to see if anyone is inside a couple times, no responce. I continue to cut the lock for about 5 minutes, I look behind me and 2 men roll up, one points his gun at me, so I stop cutting and say 'woah woah relax!' to abide my time to run and pull a gun, however without a single word the man sprays me down like the dog I am. I went to the help desk to speak to them after my friends killed them, they failed to understand the simple basic rules of base raiding.

1. They were outside the base.
2. Not a single person made themselves known that this base belonged to them.
3. The base did not even belong to them.
4. The base owner was apparently sitting inside and never said a word in game.
5. The attacks were not even apart of the same group/dynamic.
6. 'Because he told me to'
7. They shot a completely uninvolved WOMAN and a man in the streets with both of them having their hands up and that in no way was involved

Now I came to them to educate them on what they did, they were apologetic but they had absolutely ZERO knowledge of the rules, they failed to grasp the simple rules of the game and it's not acceptable, its been happening far too often and I am beginning to think it is not their fault but the whitelists fault, something needs to be changed in the whitelist, if they can go through the whitelist application and not understand the basics what is the point of a whitelist at all. Reporting them is not an option for me, people shouldn't have to learn SIMPLE rule breaks via getting banned in a report, I prefer that to be more difficult and larger rulebreak.

Maybe there needs to be short tutorial videos of what is okay and not okay per each rule, I remember there was videos of what to do and what not to do back in the mod.

What need's to be done to improve the knowledge of simple rules for first time players?

Edited November 11 by Ryan Shepherd

[Crimson_Tiger 399]

I, personally, like the idea of a video tutorial. I would be willing to help out. 

One idea that I can think of is perhaps putting the whitelist password/phrase in the Rules as well.

[Burak 0]

4 minutes ago, Crimson_Tiger said:

I, personally, like the idea of a video tutorial. I would be willing to help out. 

One idea that I can think of is perhaps putting the pass phrase in the Rules as well.

Yea , especially one ''updated'' detailed video tutorial will work out better i guess.But who is lazy to read rules , might be lazy to watch video too.. 

[neom 431]

Tbh I think the whitelist should go back to how it was in the mod days, you were failed for spelling mistakes and grammar and your story not matching the lore. 

Harsher punishments for new whitelists should be put into place. As they clearly haven’t read the rules, revoking whitelists if you’ve been here less the month and been in a report and found guilty. 
Maybe even like us perm players were made to feel on edge and we studied the rules to not get permd again might be a good solution.
3 months probation period.

Edited November 11 by noir

[William89 175]

I agree 100% with all the problems that Shepherd summarizes in just three points.

I would add one extra point: new whitelists do not know how to emote correctly.

But it's not their fault, they are new. The rules are written in a weird language: there is no definition of "permakill", there is no definition of "initiation", there is no explanation of how to use the text chat... And, therefore, they need other players to explain them how the game works.

From my side I have PM'd some to explain things to them. I think that this is what works best. It's personal and direct.

[Alan Woods 102]

Thank you for your magnificent TED talk Mr. Sheperd !

 

Now onto the serious matters : Unfortunately, you also know that, every wave of new players that comes here after a certain Youtuber or Streamer is bound to make problems, either because they didn't understand the rules or they understood the rules but don't have a general grasp of them.

Now the best way for new players to come here prepared in the best ways is the new whitelist system presented by Rolle which is still in the works and needs support or idea from the whole community, old members and new members alike.

Although this system is away, that doesn't mean we can't provide help for the new players.

Best place for new players and even older ones to vocalize their problems and not understanding the rules are in sections such as Ask the Staff (for staff related questions) and Questions (for questions towards staff and community members alike) or hop onto Discord where Staff and Community members alike can join and provide the best explanations to rules and outcomes of situations.

It is recommended first to use the search function as to avoid asking the same question over and over.

Problem is not many people do it... Which is also shown by various reports and general misunderstanding of the rules.

Now, I can understand people are either not social, or they might be afraid, but nobody will ever come to bash you for not knowing the rules, you will be helped and put on the right path as it is in the best interest of the whole community as everybody is knowledgeable of the rules and reports are kept only for big problematics like Ryan mentioned.

23 minutes ago, Crimson_Tiger said:

I, personally, like the idea of a video tutorial. I would be willing to help out. 

One idea that I can think of is perhaps putting the pass phrase in the Rules as well.

The passphrase is already in the rules iirc

18 minutes ago, Burak said:

Yea , especially one ''updated'' detailed video tutorial will work out better i guess.But who is lazy to read rules , might be lazy to watch video too.. 

Well you are kinda wrong, videos are more efficient at understanding things and provide a more entertaining way to learn the rules.

16 minutes ago, noir said:

Tbh I think the whitelist should go back to how it was in the mod days, you were failed for spelling mistakes and grammar and your story not matching the lore. 

Harsher punishments for new whitelists should be put into place. As they clearly haven’t read the rules, revoking whitelists if you’ve been here less the month and been in a report and found guilty. 
Maybe even like us perm players were made to feel on edge and we studied the rules to not get permd. 
3 months probation period.

We can't go backwards and punish people for stuff like grammar and such, because it doesn't show up as a sign of not knowing the rules, some people that were banned recently showed their English is good, so it's more a problem of understanding situations where the rules apply, which is why people need to ask and experienced members / staff will answer. For the other part, I can't say I like it, but revoking whitelist for a rulebreak is not good. It's counter-productive and it doesn't help the member to acknowledge and learn better what he did wrong.

4 minutes ago, William89 said:

I agree 100% with all the problems that Shepherd summarizes in just three points.

I would add one extra point: new whitelists do not know how to emote correctly.

But it's not their fault, they are new. The rules are written in a weird language: there is no definition of "permakill", there is no definition of "initiation", there is no explanation of how to use the text chat... And, therefore, they need other players to explain them how the game works.

From my side I have PM'd some to explain things to them. I think that this is what works best. It's personal and direct.

You are doing your part which is nice to see and I hope more follow in your steps !

People need to give constructive feedback so the others can improve !

[neom 431]

6 minutes ago, Alan Woods said:

Thank you for your magnificent TED talk Mr. Sheperd !

 

Now onto the serious matters : Unfortunately, you also know that, every wave of new players that comes here after a certain Youtuber or Streamer is bound to make problems, either because they didn't understand the rules or they understood the rules but don't have a general grasp of them.

Now the best way for new players to come here prepared in the best ways is the new whitelist system presented by Rolle which is still in the works and needs support or idea from the whole community, old members and new members alike.

Although this system is away, that doesn't mean we can't provide help for the new players.

Best place for new players and even older ones to vocalize their problems and not understanding the rules are in sections such as Ask the Staff (for staff related questions) and Questions (for questions towards staff and community members alike) or hop onto Discord where Staff and Community members alike can join and provide the best explanations to rules and outcomes of situations.

It is recommended first to use the search function as to avoid asking the same question over and over.

Problem is not many people do it... Which is also shown by various reports and general misunderstanding of the rules.

Now, I can understand people are either not social, or they might be afraid, but nobody will ever come to bash you for not knowing the rules, you will be helped and put on the right path as it is in the best interest of the whole community as everybody is knowledgeable of the rules and reports are kept only for big problematics like Ryan mentioned.

The passphrase is already in the rules iirc

Well you are kinda wrong, videos are more efficient at understanding things and provide a more entertaining way to learn the rules.

We can't go backwards and punish people for stuff like grammar and such, because it doesn't show up as a sign of not knowing the rules, some people that were banned recently showed their English is good, so it's more a problem of understanding situations where the rules apply, which is why people need to ask and experienced members / staff will answer. For the other part, I can't say I like it, but revoking whitelist for a rulebreak is not good. It's counter-productive and it doesn't help the member to acknowledge and learn better what he did wrong.

You are doing your part which is nice to see and I hope more follow in your steps !

People need to give constructive feedback so the others can improve !

Makes no sense and yes you can and should be revoking whitelists coz rule breaks are made, 

Being nice nice and holding new peoples hands hasn’t worked and won’t work when you have people who don’t care about the rules, so maybe it is time to be tougher, actions speak louder the words and giving someone a slap on the wrist isn’t going to change anything, but coming down hard and showing this is a serious COMMUNITY and not a taki life server (which more and more people are acting like it is) will keep things in check. You may see it as counter productive but I see it as weeding the garden and getting rid of the weeds before they take over the garden.
 

And your point about English and grammar is tosh as well, it worked back in the mod days with the PSI waves so why wouldn’t it work now. Sorry but your points are just not good enough 

Edited November 11 by noir

[Crimson_Tiger 399]

17 minutes ago, Alan Woods said:

The passphrase is already in the rules iirc

I was referring to the one for the whitelist. Add one for the Rules like it is in the Lore.

[Alan Woods 102]

4 minutes ago, noir said:

Makes no sense and yes you can and should be revoking whitelists coz rule breaks are made, 

Being nice nice and holding new peoples hands hasn’t worked and won’t work when you have people who don’t care about the rules, so maybe it is time to be tougher, actions speak louder the words and giving someone a slap on the wrist isn’t going to change anything, but coming down hard and showing this is a serious COMMUNITY and not a taki life server (which more and more people are acting like it is) will keep things in check. You may see it as counter productive but I see it as weeding the garden and getting rid of the weeds before they take over the garden.
 

And your point about English and grammar is tosh as well, it worked back in the mod days with the PSI waves so why wouldn’t it work now. Sorry but your points are just not good enough 

I am not opposing your idea, as it is a good point your brought up, but you can't go and generalize every rule break from a new whitelisted member as an instant revoke of their whitelist. Some people break rules in good faith and until proven that they were not intentional, you can't kick them for a mistake that could be talked out and made understood for that person to not repeat another time. 

Also the grammar point for me is not ideal, as I personally didn't have the best whitelist (grammarly speaking) when I first joined, but over time I have improved myself, so others who also have problems can do the same. 

But I respect your opinion, it's just that I personally can't think of it as the best solution in this moment.

[neom 431]

7 minutes ago, Alan Woods said:

I am not opposing your idea, as it is a good point your brought up, but you can't go and generalize every rule break from a new whitelisted member as an instant revoke of their whitelist. Some people break rules in good faith and until proven that they were not intentional, you can't kick them for a mistake that could be talked out and made understood for that person to not repeat another time. 

Also the grammar point for me is not ideal, as I personally didn't have the best whitelist (grammarly speaking) when I first joined, but over time I have improved myself, so others who also have problems can do the same. 

But I respect your opinion, it's just that I personally can't think of it as the best solution in this moment.

And so what if they break rules in good faith? They still broke a rule tough tits! They broke a rule it’s shows they haven’t taken the time to read through everything an understand it properly, you have to read the rules and accept them, they’ve “read” them and accepted them so they are held to accountability. Sorry but I think your points are mute and seen a bit to safe spacy for my liking.

Ex perma banned players were treated like garbage and convicts at every turn and were looked under a microscope and a small % messed up but the large % stuck to the rules like the were gospel as we were terrified of losing our whitelist and privilege of playing here again. Yet new whitlists get the freedom to fuck up, get in countless reports and act like this is taki life. Something is very wrong with that and if you can not see that then there is something very very wrong 

Edited November 11 by noir

[Hofer 549]

1 hour ago, noir said:

Tbh I think the whitelist should go back to how it was in the mod days, you were failed for spelling mistakes and grammar and your story not matching the lore. 

We do not fail for grammar and/or spelling mistakes, but they need to write understandable English. If their story does not match the lore they are not accepted. This is standard now, and has been like that for ages.

Harsher punishments for new whitelists should be put into place. As they clearly haven’t read the rules, revoking whitelists if you’ve been here less the month and been in a report and found guilty. 

If a a newly whitelisted member is found guilty of a rule break that exceeds 7 days as a standard punishment the whitelist is revoked.

See replies above.

[neom 431]

1 minute ago, Hofer said:

See replies above.

And I appreciate you respond and I was aware of the 7 day thing but I feel as if it should be 30 days coz 7 days to prove you understand the server and community isn’t enough. There are members of staff who racked up warning points for flaming in the first few months here, so they didn’t understand that rule. 
My eyes it needs to be a lot longer and treated a lot more seriously. As of right now I have 0 desire to play on this server as I look at the report section and see “false reports”, kos, RDM you name it all from new players and us older generation are expect to sit back and just accept it, no no no sir, I will happily be vocal about how I see this community turning in to a taki life server and how poor I feel the whitelist system is 

[APositiveElmo 3586]

Base defending is the big one for me. New players with bases tend to jump the gun and go ham without realizing the process required to actually intercede with valid rights. Needs big clarification in any whitelist rework.

[JewRP 807]

After reading this @Ryan Shepherd i have 3 words to say

 This the Truth

there needs to be some way to prevent that kind of just ignorance towards the rules and orevent any misunderstandings.

Especially the KOS cases. 

[DuquesneLR 270]

I agree, something needs to change.

Had an issue the other day as well with coercing two new rookies to the server to give us their guns as a donation (without straight up initiating). After they donated it to our local Chernarussian man they went on their way again, and five minutes after one of ours gets hit by a mosin from 400 meters away. Now, that is the first rulebreak.
The second was when we chased after the shots of course, we never managed to find them. I go to the help desk simply to have a talk with them, as it was quite obvious they were new and I simply wished to explain the rules to them- but alas, they had combat logged 4 minutes after shooting the shot. 

Que the next day when we finally get them into a VC, and I explain them the rules of combat logging and initiating, to which their reply was "We didn't know that was a rule.".

Something in the whitelist needs to change, as it is quite appearent that it isn't fully read through, but rather simply find the answers, and the passphrase.

 

My suggestion would be to have more indepth questions as well as a few trick questions, ones that sounds as if they lean one direction rather than the proper one. Another place -redacted- did so, and it made me give the rules a second glance. If we can manage to do the same, it may push off those who hasn't read the rules fully.

Tl;dr - they don't read rules, apply these into the whitelist process:

- Trick questions that forces them to give it a second glance.
- More indepth questions.
- Maybe even a video guide, although it isn't a favourite for me.

Edited November 11 by DuquesneLR
Formatting

[Wendigo 75]

- PLAYER HAS BEEN WARNED FOR THIS POST - 

[Zero 1986]

I think a bunch of people through the last wave might just be looking for a no KOS server or a light RP server. This simply isn’t the place for that. I’m not even playing but already know about how much rule breaking is going on. When these waves go through it makes me not want to play because people don’t even know the rules. 

There are ways to have people’s whitelist revoked, start reporting and recording when these people say they didn’t even know it was a rule because you would know that certain stuff is a rule break if you actually read through the rules page. 

Edited November 11 by ZeroRP

[ImNovaaa 65]

Honestly for me right now, it’s the amount of fucking OOC talking going on in game. Someone really said, “hey do y’all see the red text on your screen?” LIKE CMON MAN. Also witnessed a man ask the legend @Kordruga if he could still hear his mic in game, not once, but twice. After he got hit with //stop OOC he proceeded to say, “Oh sorry” in VOIP And i’ve also noticed a lot of these newer players simply will sit in their base aiming their guns at you while you talk to their leader, some will try and KOS if they ever feel even slightly threatened, and the amount of people that avoid RP is ridiculous. Sometimes I can understand it if they’re in like a car or something as they fear they’re going to lose their vehicle. BUT when you’re 5 feet in front of me and i’m simply trying to get to know who you are, etc. & you completely ignore me, pull your gun out, and walk away to not be seen again, it just puts a bad taste in my mouth and just disappointing. 

Edited November 11 by ImNovaaa

[Blake 363]

I feel like a tutorial might help, but the way I see it, if some people can't understand the simplest and basic rules they are either too dumb or just didn't give the whitelisting questions a second thought. Sure, people are allowed to be new and make mistakes but I agree with Shepherd . The mass whitelist sure have brought in a lot of retarded situations. 

[Eagle 2830]

The current whitelist is a joke and made to allow as many people to pass with ease.

[Worldclass 22]

I have not been around as long as a lot of members hete but I can definitely say the quality of role play in the last 2 months has changed alot.i have noticed it with other members in the community that it seems like some of the new people just dont care about the rules.know I'm not claiming to be a saint everyone messes up but the whitelist should be harder.

[Ryan Shepherd 1851]

Requesting staffs point of view on the current whitelist process and the current quality of new players.

@Roland @Randy@Voodoo @Hofer @Fae @Rover @JimRP oh wait nvm scratch that. (Just kidding lad)

[Hofer 549]

You want me to write?

Sure.

The current whitelist system is too easy. It's not hard getting the correct answers and I believe the old system, while really old fashioned and way too time consuming for staff to review, was superior to the one we currently have. Personally I believe the story and about me section requirements are too low, and I would love to see this at least doubled for now.

But..

Rolle is working on the new system. He wanted to have it ready before the Mr Moon video launched, but was not able to do it. We have to live with the system we have, and we as a GM team sets a standard on what we approve and what we deny based on stories and personal descriptions. 

But even so. In the past with the better and more detailed whitelist system we did have the bad weeds coming through. This happens everywhere in life. Someone will get through the quality controls and checks no matter what, and end up breaking the rules/guidelines given upon entrance. This will never change, not matter how strict the whitelisting system is to begin with.

I can assure you all though that we do read them thoroughly, and we do nitpick lore issues throughout the application. If these issues aren't fixed we do deny them in the end.

[Ryan Shepherd 1851]

For example, the player I spoke about in my opening post regarding shooting without initiating and have very little knowledge if at all of the rules, in @Alan Woods report he show cases this;

It just so happens the leading hostile role in this video is the same player I spoke about in my opening post. That video just is not good enough to be happening, this player has been in the community since July, which is 4 months, how can you not grasp simple rules in 4 months? Clearly this person has not and has not been forced to real the rules properly. I gave this player a chance by not reporting him and explaining attack and defender rights and he agreed he needed to brush up on the rules, however clearly this didn't happen.

Enough is enough to be honest, whitelist revokes need to be more of a risk for these kind of new players.

In his character backstory, not only is his name Clint Westwood but he is currently in 'Chernarous' if you can not even spell Chernarus what hope have you.

Edited November 12 by Ryan Shepherd

[neom 431]

And apparently according to staff they read the back story’s, guess that proves otherwise then 

 

Edited November 12 by noir