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JohnnyRP

S1 Altar, 4.7 and possible 4.6 rule break 4:50 PM EST

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Server and location: S1 Altar Radio Station

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME):  4:50PM EST 11/4/2019

Your in game name: John Willems

Names of allies involved: @SlyCactus / Bill Johnson

Name of suspect/s: Unknown

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any): N/A

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): Unfortunately was not recording.

Detailed description of the events: 

Bill and I were running through the woods when we overheard a conversation near the radio station. We hid behind a fence for a while while listening to an asian man speak to a female text player. When we heard the Asian man ask why the woman wanted to kill him on the spot, we jumped in and asked if everything was okay. The woman had a weapon, so we asked her to comply with our orders - drop the weapon, handcuff her while we figure out what was going on. We took the weapon, and as we were about to let them go after clarifying the situation, a group of two people with armbands showed up (unknown what group they were in, but it was an approved group). As we were lockpicking the woman's handcuffs to let her go on her way, the two other men initiated on Bill and I, and he shot at them. I put my hands up, they killed Bill. It appeared the woman and man were together at this point, telling the group I was lying and that I was robbing them both. Then, the woman executed me. I believe we were baited into a situation where they would receive defender rights so they could execute us for our gear, even after I fully complied with all orders that the other initiators (the group) had given me. The reason they killed me was because I was American.

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Hi Roleplayer,

I just bumped into the woman a few minutes before you and your man showed up. I am not related to the woman at all as an FYI. Myself and the woman were roleplaying, and as my character does not have the best English, got confused. You then show up and initiate on both of us. Bill Johnson, then proceeded to steal the womans gun.

You say you were "Baited".

I fail to see at any point in this situation where you were baited. I was role-playing with the female, and you decided to take it upon yourself to come and initiate on myself and the woman. At no point were you provoked into initiating. You took an executive decision to initiate on us. You could've simply moved on and ignored us, but you initiated.

Also, you weren't executed for being "American" you and your friend robbed the woman. Yes, you specifically took her AK from her, and did not give it back. As you were leaving the two men showed up and initiated on you. One does not comply and is swiftly killed, you are taken by us, the men and the woman. Then you are executed for stealing the womans guns (She has execution rights as you had robbed her previously).

I do not have video evidence.

Edited by Challenger

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Unless I am interpreting the rules wrong, under 4.6 it says: 

A character that is taken hostage may be executed once for a hostile incident that happened in the past where the hostage was personally responsible for, or participated in a death of your ally

Regardless, before we had the chance to give the gun back which we had intended on, we were initiated on. The entire altercation you were saying the woman was trying to kill you and did a 180 as soon as I was handcuffed.

 

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My PoV(Bill Johnson):

We approached from the forest, south of the radio station. Listening to what sounded like a robbery "Why do you want to end my life?!" A man begging not to be killed. We approach, trying to avoid this man from being killed. after restraining the Woman holding up the man, I did, in fact, take their weapon, as they had shown to be aggressive. During this situation, 2 people approach us from the west, asking whats going on, completely oblivious acting as if they do not know the persons' involved. As soon as the hostile situation is taken care of, we make sure the man being harmed, we go to uncuff the violent woman, and the 2 men initiate on us. I, knowing we were going to be killed, took it upon myself to try and kill one of the men pointing his gun and me and Johnny, and they ended my life.

 

My problem with the situation:

It was beyond clear that some sort of communication other then In-game voice was being used/radio use. As they made a swift decision together while the woman was tied up, with no radio on their pack, and not using any sort of Signal that they were going to take action. Kind of ruined the entire experience for me and Johnny. Also, The man being held up baited us into a hostile situation, giving them the upper hand with their friends looking out. Not pleased with how this turned out in any way, even if we had managed to kill both of them, it was still a very bad RP experience for me and Johnny

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7 minutes ago, JohnnyRP said:

Unless I am interpreting the rules wrong, under 4.6 it says: 

A character that is taken hostage may be executed once for a hostile incident that happened in the past where the hostage was personally responsible for, or participated in a death of your ally

Regardless, before we had the chance to give the gun back which we had intended on, we were initiated on. The entire altercation you were saying the woman was trying to kill you and did a 180 as soon as I was handcuffed.

 

My interpretation of the rule is: If you are specifically involved in a hostile action (Hostile action being the robbery of the AK) you then gain execution rights. Staff can clarify this if they'd like. When I said are you giving the AK back, you and your friend said "No I am keeping this" if I remember correctly. Therefore that is a robbery, as you had taken some of her stuff.

The men who showed up were my friends, the reason I done a 180 is because you made my character very annoyed by taking him hostage, therefore changed the story even more. 

But as stated above you can see my interpretation of the rule. That's why I believe you were executed. 

@SlyCactus I had told the men that I was at Altar way before anyone showed up and they were on there way anyways. Once they arrived I had said the code word that is "Armalite" which means were going to initiate on you. 

Edited by Challenger

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I did not say I was going to keep the gun, and,  I wasn't going to. Do not put words in my mouth, gamer. If you have video proof of that, we'd all love to see it, though.

Edited by SlyCactus

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5 minutes ago, SlyCactus said:

I did not say I was going to keep the gun, and,  I wasn't going to. Do not put words in my mouth, gamer.

I am indeed a gamer. There was a reason I said "If I remember correctly", you might want to double check that part of the sentence. 

I'll say it again: If I remember correctly, one of you said "We are keeping this AK". I do not have any video evidence so I cannot prove this, do you have any video evidence that would go against my statement?

It wasn't my intention to put words in your mouth.

 

Edited by Challenger

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My question is, That person that was holding you up, near the radio station, was not being put into the hostile situation at all, when the 2 men that are your friends rolled up. So, why was that person allowed to stand there, and kill johnny? Can you elaborate on how the person that started the whole mess got to walk away scott free? Or is that woman with you guys as well? Because then were moving onto something completely different.

@Challenger None of us said we were keeping the gun, because we weren't going to, so no you don't remember correctly. Don't put words in my mouth For the second time.

Edited by SlyCactus

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15 minutes ago, SlyCactus said:

My question is, That person that was holding you up, near the radio station, was not being put into the hostile situation at all, when the 2 men that are your friends rolled up. So, why was that person allowed to stand there, and kill johnny? Can you elaborate on how the person that started the whole mess got to walk away scott free? Or is that woman with you guys as well? Because then were moving onto something completely different.

@Challenger None of us said we were keeping the gun, because we weren't going to, so no you don't remember correctly. Don't put words in my mouth For the second time.

1. She is not with us, as stated in the original PoV

2. I wasnt being held up, myself and the woman were roleplaying a confusing situation, which involved myself not understanding English (Which was specified to yourselves) 

3. These things happen when it comes to roleplaying, while you had her hostage my character then understood what she meant and that it was a misunderstanding (Unfortunately my friends showed up)

4. Once again gamer, I am not putting words in your mouth, I have found this link that may help you understand what I mean. https://www.phrasemix.com/phrases/if-i-recall-correctly. I am going off of what I can remember, as stated twice.

@JohnnyRP & @SlyCactus I am more than happy to discuss in Discord if you'd like.

Edited by Challenger

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12 minutes ago, Challenger said:

2. I wasnt being held up, myself and the woman were roleplaying a confusing situation, which involved myself not understanding English (Which was specified to yourselves) 

If you weren't being held up, it sure sounded like you were, and when we approached the situation it appeared you were as well.

 

Regardless, we will wait for other PoV at this point - perhaps someone else has video evidence that will clear this case.

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Connection Logs:

Spoiler

20:32:23 | Player "John Willems" is connected
- Dead -
21:53:12 | Player "John Willems" has been disconnected

22:19:43 | Player "Erin Olesk" is connected
- Currently Connected -

20:19:10 | Player "Declan Chen" is connected
- Currently Connected -

20:35:16 | Player "Bill Johnson" is connected
- Dead -
22:31:52 | Player "Bill Johnson" has been disconnected

20:13:28 | Player "Gregori Shmopov" is connected
- Currently Connected -

21:40:09 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" is connected
21:47:22 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" has been disconnected
21:59:55 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" is connected
22:03:54 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" has been disconnected
22:06:43 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" is connected
22:58:14 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" has been disconnected

Hit Logs:

Spoiler

21:46:17 | Player "Bill Johnson" hit by Player "Gregori Shmopov" with AKM from 1.93792 meters 
21:46:18 | Player "Bill Johnson" hit by Player "Gregori Shmopov" with AKM from 1.46163 meters 
21:46:18 | Player "Bill Johnson" hit by Player "Gregori Shmopov" with AKM from 0.89755 meters 
21:46:18 | Player "Bill Johnson" hit by Player "Gregori Shmopov" with AKM from 1.0276 meters 
21:46:18 | Player "Bill Johnson" hit by Player "Gregori Shmopov" with AKM from 1.0276 meters 

21:53:08 | Player "John Willems" hit by Player "Erin Olesk" with MP-133 from 1.75456 meters 
21:53:08 | Player "John Willems" hit by Player "Erin Olesk" with MP-133 from 1.75456 meters 
21:53:08 | Player "John Willems" hit by Player "Erin Olesk" with MP-133 from 1.75456 meters 
21:53:08 | Player "John Willems" hit by Player "Erin Olesk" with MP-133 from 1.75456 meters 
21:53:08 | Player "John Willems" hit by Player "Erin Olesk" with MP-133 from 1.75456 meters 
21:53:08 | Player "John Willems" hit by Player "Erin Olesk" with MP-133 from 1.75456 meters 
21:53:08 | Player "John Willems" hit by Player "Erin Olesk" with MP-133 from 1.75456 meters 
21:53:08 | Player "John Willems" hit by Player "Erin Olesk" with MP-133 from 1.75456 meters 
21:53:08 | Player "John Willems" hit by Player "Erin Olesk" with MP-133 from 1.75456 meters 
21:53:08 | Player "John Willems" hit by Player "Erin Olesk" with MP-133 from 1.75456 meters 
21:53:08 | Player "John Willems" hit by Player "Erin Olesk" with MP-133 from 1.75456 meters 
21:53:08 | Player "John Willems" hit by Player "Erin Olesk" with MP-133 from 1.75456 meters 
21:53:08 | Player "John Willems" hit by Player "Erin Olesk" with MP-133 from 1.75456 meters 

Kill Logs:

Spoiler

21:46:18 | Player "Bill Johnson" (DEAD) killed by Player "Gregori Shmopov" with AKM from 0.89755 meters 

21:53:08 | Player "John Willems" (DEAD) killed by Player "Erin Olesk" with MP-133 from 1.75456 meters 

Chat Logs:

Spoiler

21:31:06 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): Hello again.
21:31:34 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): A change in style is not a bad thing/
21:31:47 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): This belongs to Redwood Radio.
21:32:05 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): Some sort of radio station is my guess.
21:32:24 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): I spoke with one of them earlier today.
21:32:52 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): You speak too quickly for me to understand.
21:33:08 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): Earlier today, perhaps in the morning.
21:33:26 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): Say again?
21:33:43 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): Yes, I am. It will be here soon.
21:34:26 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): No, I am going to be leaving here soon enough.
21:34:39 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): Not the country, just the area.
21:34:57 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): You're very inquisitive..
21:35:17 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): You ask many questions.
21:35:42 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): They also can get you hurt very quickly.
21:36:29 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): *She lets out a long sigh* Questions can end your life.
21:37:04 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): *Rolls up her sleeve to reveal dozens of deep scars* Questions can end your life..
21:37:39 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): Stand up..
21:37:56 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): Put your damn hands down.
21:38:15 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): He doesn't understand english very well apparently..
21:38:44 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): He doesn't understand english well
21:39:04 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): It is all a misunderstanding here.
21:39:31 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): He misunderstood my words. I was warning him of other people is all.
21:39:45 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): People who generally don't like questions.
21:40:24 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): Here. How about I drop my rifle for you? I mean no harm to anyone.
21:40:52 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): May I show you something.
21:41:19 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): My wrists..
21:41:30 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): I will show you scars from when I asked questions.
21:41:43 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): It was my own fucking mother is who.
21:42:39 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): I never intended to. As I said, it was a misunderstanding. He doesn't seem to understand my english.
21:43:22 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): I will drop my magazines for you. They are empty.
21:44:06 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): It was a misunderstanding. He didn't understand my English.
21:45:40 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): What the hell;, it was a fucking misunderstanding!
21:48:44 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): It is alright.
21:49:53 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): I am from Estonia.
21:50:08 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): That is correct.
21:53:30 | Chat("Erin Olesk"): And no pellets touched his things.

Calling in the following people to post their Point of Views & any video evidence they may have:
@JohnnyRP | John Willems | OP
@Winter Lianne | Erin Olesk |

@Challenger | Declan Chen | POSTED
@SlyCactus | Bill Johnson | POSTED
@Cuchulainn | Gregori Shmopov |
@Ryan Shepherd | Ryan Shepherd | POSTED

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There were two other men there, I believe they were part of the Trade Union. They killed @SlyCactus. Any way you could check position logs as well, @Realize

 

I have already posted my POV above, as well.

Edited by JohnnyRP
Missing info

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I was talking to @Challenger, roleplaying, and his character misunderstood what I'd said, and thought I threatened him, and even when I tried explaining that, he still thought I threatened him. The next thing I know, the alleged victims come from nowhere to see what is going on. I explained it was a misunderstanding, and they initiated on I and Challenger. They put me in cuffs and generally refused to listen to me when I repeated myself "He misunderstood my English, he doesn't speak it very well." All the while pointing weapons at me. They were going to free me until the Trade Union person Came into the situation, in which I didn't see what happened but heard "Put your hands up" and He exchanged gunfire with one person. The "alleged victim" complied and was placed in cuffs. After a time, Challenger and the Trade Union person decided they were finished with the man after asking him a series of questions, which at this point, Challenger was on the side of the Trade Union person , and I agreed with their statements and executed @JohnnyRP after stripping all of his items from him, due to still having kill rights due to the rule that JohnnyRP quoted himself: A character that is taken hostage may be executed once for a hostile incident that happened in the past where the hostage was personally responsible for, or participated in a death of your ally. In which you he initiated on me, and I was personally responsible for him. All of this as well as him robbing me of my AKM, stating he was not going to give it back, and me being cut off before I had time to protest.

Edited by Winter Lianne
A switch in names.

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I think you have us mixed up, @Winter Lianne - I am John (the one you executed) and @SlyCactus was Bill, the one killed by the Trade Union people.

 

Also, addressing you saying we were threatening to kill you - we were not, we explicitly said we were not going to kill you and let you go on your way once we had everything figured out. This is when the Trade Union came in and we told them the exact same story.

Edited by JohnnyRP
Missing info

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Hello gamers.

Resident Ryan Shepherd here.

Pretty clear cut here, allow me to break it down real simple.

1. @Challenger, @Cuchulainn & myself arranged to meet up at Altar Radio station.

2. Once @Cuchulainn & myself arrived, we see @JohnnyRP & @SlyCactus with their guns out, an unarmed @Challenger & a cuffed @Winter Lianne.

3. I ask what is going on, everyone spoke at the same time rendering it difficult to understand what was going on.

4. I decided I was going to swing this robbery around and initiate on both men, I waited for the correct timing.

5. @JohnnyRP holstered his weapon to unrestrain @Winter Lianne, before I could speak, @Challenger said 'Armalite' in game, which is our word for initiating, at that moment I knew we were on the same page.

6. I initiated on @JohnnyRP & @SlyCactus telling them to put their hands up, @Cuchulainn followed suit.

7. For reasons unknown, @SlyCactus tried to take on two fine Irish men with a Socom & an AK variant versus his shotgun, he was quickly sent to the coast like the gamer he is.

8. @JohnnyRP complied in a timely fashion, he was handcuffed & I opened his inventory to check for concealed weapons, as soon as I opened his inventory, my game froze & I had to wait in the queue to return, which I did so as quickly as possible.

9. @Winter Lianne took it upon himself to execute @JohnnyRP who had taken him/her hostage. Also I would like to specify in no way is @Winter Lianne affiliated with @Challenger, @Cuchulainn or myself.

10. Don't initiate on people and not expect to have consequences.

Over and out gamers.

 

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You can go ahead and close the report. The whole situation was a confusing clusterfuck. Nobody has video evidence, so it'll be a game of he-said-she-said. Hopefully next time we can have a more meaningful roleplay interaction, gamers!

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5 hours ago, JohnnyRP said:

You can go ahead and close the report. The whole situation was a confusing clusterfuck. Nobody has video evidence, so it'll be a game of he-said-she-said. Hopefully next time we can have a more meaningful roleplay interaction, gamers!

Not sure about you pal but I really enjoyed that entire roleplay experience, hope to meet you again some time, gamer!

(Yes this also means I agree to close)

Edited by Ryan Shepherd

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Hello,

We are glad you managed to come to an agreement to close this report. 

In the future, always be aware that if you initiate on someone you run the risk of them being with their allies or approved group that could be close to your location, giving them defender rights that last for two hours as described in the following rule.

Quote

4.2 When your life is at risk or you are subjected to a hostile action by other players you are allowed to defend yourself. This is granted by two different "kill rights" that you can gain based on circumstances of the situation like which side caused the hostile situation and which side you are on.

If you are a defender - the one being initiated on or subjected to other hostile actions that threaten your life which you did not start or provoke - you are allowed to defend yourself by gaining  DEFENDER RIGHTS on the attackers. Defender rights allow you to kill attackers for 2 hours or until your character dies. Defender rights can be shared with anyone who you recently role played with as well as all your group members, if you are a part of an approved group.

If you are an attacker - the one who first did the initiation or started, caused or provoked the hostile situation - you are allowed to defend yourself by gaining  ATTACKER RIGHTS on the defenders. Attacker rights allow you to kill defenders for 1 hour or until your character dies. Attacker rights can be only be shared with your approved group members. If you are not a part of an approved group, attacker rights can not be shared and apply only for your character.

If you're not ready to deal with the consequences of a hostile action you should refrain from commiting said action.

With that said

/closed

Signed @Hofer & @Conor

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